Unannounced Sci-Fi Shooter: First Screens

[Gray Fox]

And I do believe this is how Valve has produced/produces most of their levels for HL2/Episode One - They use apps like XSI.

Are you sure, I asked about this in the mapping section and people explained that this way getting the Vis leaves to work properly would be very hard, that kind of a mapping is more suited on a portal engine like Unreal engine. Besides a lot of geometry in HL2 looks like it has been build simply in Hammer.

 

[Ennui]

valve does brushwork in hammer and most details as models, but that's normal innit..

 

[Para]

Looks like a grunge version NX-1 (the Enterprise from, uh, Enterprise).

 

[Asknoone]

Mind enlightening me then?

If it was some witty bit of humor, I completely missed and do not understand it.

A brush is something you build within the world and ultimately becomes part of the world you are building, rather than just plonking some model in. Plus, you have alot more control over brushes.

 

[Apostle11]

So it's a MOD then.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Not according to their development diary.

 

[Ennui]

A brush is something you build within the world and ultimately becomes part of the world you are building, rather than just plonking some model in. Plus, you have alot more control over brushes.

You said that modelling isn't as rewarding as making something with brushes; it was a custom model, so what you're saying doesn't make sense. You have as much control over a model because you MAKE it in the same fashion that you make something out of brushes in hammer.

That's why I said it's the same principle.

A brush IS a model, albeit a simple one that's manipulated in Hammer instead of 3dsm.

 

[Asknoone]

You don't see where I am coming from.

 

[Ennui]

Pretty much nope

 

[Sufferin-rebel]

I actually Mistook these screenshots for the mod BM updates

 

[Al3xand3r]

I never mentioned anything about any chance of it not happening

So you agree that it's real, you have verified that Garry's working with Valve in a deal, you have seen that Garry has multiple times said he's only working on it because of the deal in hand and that otherwise the mod would be dead, and yet you will still treat it as a rumor..?

Well, it's not a rumor, it's the real deal, confirmed by parties who know the situation better than you (or I) do and if it ends up not happening in the end then simply something happened to break the deal rather than finding out it was a rumored event that was never meant to be.

Also, selective pasting isn't making your points any more valid. The full sentence was: "A piece of unverified information of uncertain origin usually spread by word of mouth."

I don't think Garry qualifies as "uncertain origin". Besides, if you treat it as a rumor simply because it's not "finalised yet" then I suppose it's also a rumor that a new Dystopia version is being worked on since we have only heard of it from you, the developers, and it's obviously "not finalised yet" since it's not released. Quite a silly thing to say, don't you think?

 

[Asknoone]

Garry's mod is going to be sold. Tis that simple.

 

[COALslaw]

neat

 

[Cole]

A brush IS a model, albeit a simple one that's manipulated in Hammer instead of 3dsm.

Although a brush is part of the map data. For example:
In oblivion everything is a model, it's all geometry. Because of this it can't tell if something is behind a wall and therefor renders everything. You could have 10000 guys behind a wall and it would render them all even if you were just looking at the wall and couldn't see the guys.

A brush on the other hand is a little different. If I made a brush in hammer and put 10000 guys behind the wall and looked at the wall it wouldn't render the 10000 guys until you could see one. Although if a brush is dynamic then it is treated more like a model. This is also why, based on how the shadows are implemented, in HL2 shadows fall onto brushes but not onto models or dynamic brushes.

 

[dys-Fuzzy]

I don't think Garry qualifies as "uncertain origin".

I'm more saying that the Steam Review article / interview was the "uncertain origin". Since as Garry explained to me in an email, they failed to mention that the deal wasn't finalised. Something that he HAD told them.

Besides, if you treat it as a rumor simply because it's not "finalised yet" then I suppose it's also a rumor that a new Dystopia version is being worked on since we have only heard of it from you, the developers, and it's obviously "not finalised yet" since it's not released. Quite a silly thing to say, don't you think?

The difference here is simple; Dystopia Version 1 isn't dependent on anything outside of our team. The deal between Valve and Garry has two sides. No matter what "finalising" is going on, it's not official until it's announced by Valve.

Since it seems that it's purely my use of the word "rumour" upsets you so much, I'd happily replace it with any of these: advertisement, briefing, broadcast, bulletin, communication, communiqué, disclosure, dissemination, divulgence, edict, exposure, exposition, expression, intimation, message, narration, news, notice, notification, prediction, promulgation, publication, publishing, recitation, release, report, reporting, revelation, statement.

I really don't give a damn, as long as it's followed by a sentence which explains that GMod being sold over Steam isn't yet a signed and sealed deal.

I'm not pointing this out in a mean or negative way. Like many other modders I WANT to see it happen. I'm honestly hanging out for the day I fire up Steam and see the official announcement.

 

[Al3xand3r]

Yeah it was the word rumor. I don't care much if it's going to happen or not. Good for Garry if it does. And Valve of course. And whoever likes it and buys it. Doesn't affect me, just another thing to report on my site...

 

[Ging]

Like many other modders I WANT to see it happen. I'm honestly hanging out for the day I fire up Steam and see the official announcement.

I'm hanging out more for the day we get the announcement about the stuff you mentioned earlier - The sdk update and distro over Steam (hell, charge me for it, just make it happen!)

Back on topic, the shots look impressive, good luck getting it all done, especially getting the demo sorted and finding backing (something I'm looking into for a seperate project from HS)

 

[DuB]

As you can tell from the unskinned model of what appears to be a spacecraft

That's so not a space ship.
That looks much more like something one would lie on with a monitor next to it for readouts. Sort of like an MRI scanner.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I think he meant the second picture, not the third

 

[Kyorisu]

A brush on the other hand is a little different. If I made a brush in hammer and put 10000 guys behind the wall and looked at the wall it wouldn't render the 10000 guys until you could see one. Although if a brush is dynamic then it is treated more like a model. This is also why, based on how the shadows are implemented, in HL2 shadows fall onto brushes but not onto models or dynamic brushes.

It all really depends on what node the player is standing in and what that node can see.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Source models don't self-shadow, so there's a downside already.

You're limited by texture resolution.

You can't apply decals/overlays.

LOD doesn't work properly on a model of that scale.

good reasons to use brushwork instead of models

 

[Crispy]

I think there's something about light being blocked better by brush work too, I'm not at all sure.

Yes, this and what Pi said. If you're doing something with fairly bold geometry that you want to visblock and/or cast nice (accurate) shadows, you'll want to use brushwork.

This mod is looking intriguing, though. And it's single player, which gives it an immediate +100 kudos points on release. :O

 

[Gray Fox]

Isn't it so in theory that you can make everything in brushwork that you can make with models, only it takes a hell of a lot more time and is incredibly hard.

Now why isn't it possible to make a model, import it in to hammer, click a button and it turns the model in to brushwork. Like the model acts as a mold of some sort and hammer just builds a brush allong the surfaces of the model.

 

[CREMATOR666]

Isn't it so in theory that you can make everything in brushwork that you can make with models, only it takes a hell of a lot more time and is incredibly hard.

Now why isn't it possible to make a model, import it in to hammer, click a button and it turns the model in to brushwork. Like the model acts as a mold of some sort and hammer just builds a brush allong the surfaces of the model.

You can export brushes from Hammer into 3d programs but very doubtfully vice versa; for one it would practically take ages for the model's faces to be converted into brushes and for second the brush would be so complex that it is either totally impractical to use in an actual level or make VVIS and VBSP takes 10 times longer to compile.

btw this mod looks kinda cool but I must say it's kinda bland too in some screens.

 

[Megalomaniac]

Man I wish I was talented enough to help out...It looks sweet, I can't wait to see more!

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Seeing as the cat is already apparently out of the bag - this is my project. I was just keeping my association with it quiet because, well - I wanted to.

Thanks for all the comments though I'll be releasing more details soon, including the name.

As for whether it's a mod or a game, that all depends on several factors. However, you'll be able to play it this year, one way or another.

 

[Crispy]

However, you'll be able to play it this year, one way or another.

You mean to say you've had this cat in the bag for that long? You are a dark horse, sir.

 

[^Ben]

Source models don't self-shadow, so there's a downside already.

You can *bodge* around that by prebaking the the shadows into the texture map, Turtle Rock has done it But the only problem with that is you better be damn sure where the lights are going to be otherwise you need to recompile everything again

 

[Para]

You can export brushes from Hammer into 3d programs but very doubtfully vice versa; for one it would practically take ages for the model's faces to be converted into brushes and for second the brush would be so complex that it is either totally impractical to use in an actual level or make VVIS and VBSP takes 10 times longer to compile.

I did some research on this when HL2 was new and found out that the actual number for recompiling factor is [number of visible faces]*5*5 (once for extra faces, the other for BSP going nuts). I even had a small script exporting 3D meshes from Lightwave3D to Hammer but I scrapped it since it became simply too slow to be production-capable tool (read: exporting something else than inverted cube took a lifetime).