Unbearable Housemate.

[Krynn72]

wha? it's the opposite in canada. paperbacks are listed on the back is cheaper in the US than in canada usually by 10%

Shit! Its another conspiracy! Alert Danimal! He's the only one who can save us!

 

[MJ12]

So maybe you can simply pose it as a question. Like, instead of saying "stop leaving the dishes here and there.", ask him "how do you fix something to eat when you don't have any clean plates?"; "do you have any plates because we don't seem to have enough?"; "do you mind giving me a hand with the dishes?" (roll up your sleeves, as in right now)

That is ridiculous, by no means will that work. And hey, this isn't my kid, I'm not here to teach him the value of cleanliness by subtly persuading him into work; just do the the goddamn dishes. The trick is to set up ground rules before everyone settles in, "Everyone does their own dishes after cooking"

 

[Ennui]

Yeah, being someone's roommate means you have certain responsibilities. I personally am sick to death of having immature roommates that act like they're still living with their parents. They can either be a respectful roommate that cleans up after themselves and meets in the middle on house issues and conflict, or they can get the **** out of my house. I'm serious, there's nothing wrong with being outright aggressive if your roommate is being unreasonable. Try to communicate first, by all means, but if that decidedly fails then the best option is direct confrontation. Tell them to clean up after themselves and be a decent roommate or it's war - don't let them use any of your cooking things or dishes or silverware, don't let them watch your tv, be a total selfish dick - and when they complain tell them you'd be happy to share everything you own if they would only afford you a basic level of respect and decency by cleaning up after themselves, helping with household chores a fair amount and not ruining your nice things.

Just because someone had shitty parents that didn't teach them how to take care of themselves does not mean you have to fill in that role while you live with them.

 

[VirusType2]

That is ridiculous, by no means will that work. And hey, this isn't my kid, I'm not here to teach him the value of cleanliness by subtly persuading him into work; just do the the goddamn dishes. The trick is to set up ground rules before everyone settles in, "Everyone does their own dishes after cooking"

It's not ridiculous; it's psychology. It does work. If it was just a matter of telling him to do the dishes, the dishes would be done, and the thread wouldn't have been made.

EDIT:

Honestly, he doesn't even want the dirty dishes there (does anyone like piles of dirty dishes?), he doesn't need someone to tell him that they shouldn't be there. It's offensive because it's obvious - he knows it.

It's also offensive because a command attempts to take away his free will - his choice - of whether he'd rather a) do a little work, or b) let a little clutter.

At this point, he has opted for b), and just isn't convinced that it's worth it to wash it. If his mother (or roomate) keeps cleaning up after him, then he won't learn, because he will always have clean dishes to put his food on. There is no penalty, and in fact this is a great benefit to not bothering - if he waits, someone will do it for him.

 

[Qonfused]

In my experiences, that doesn't work too well. You need to be extremely blunt in telling him to get his shit together. Dropping little hints works sometimes, but that's relying on the person's own self motivation to do their shit and that's already a problem because they're not doing it.

 

[Yorick]

Oh my goodness so many replies.

So I sent John a text last night asking about rent, and he replied that he hasn't gone to the bank. Here's the deal with that. We live in Boston, he's from another town in southern Mass. His bank doesn't have a branch here, but that do have one in the city I work in (about an hour travel from our apartment, his home is further than that).

Now, he can't open up a new account in a local bank because he doesn't have any ID. For the past two months he's been taking forever getting paychecks cashed and such because he has to go back home to use the bank - which is retarded.

So he tells me that he hasn't had a chance to go, because he's been working 12-7 every day. I asked why he didn't go before that, and he asked how he'd get home and back before noon, and I reminded him again of the other branch.

He tells me that he'll just talk to the Landlord when he gets in, and I said I thought that was a very good idea. So then I went to see the Landlords. Let me tell you about them real quick actually. The guy, Leo, owns the house. He's got to be like 190. But he doesn't look a day over 140. His daughter spends a lot of time there helping him out and taking care of him. Though even she's pushing, I don't know, mid 60's? He's very nice and easy-going, she's a bit harder, and they make a good team that way.

It's a three family house, they live on the first floor, the second is rented to some college kids, and I have the third. I got the place through my cousin, who lived there for 3 years, and they just adored her. Her father would come up a few weeks a year to help them do some things maintaining the house etc. So they really want me to stay, because it's the same family and they trust/like me.

Anyway I went to talk to the daughter, Alice. And I just wanted to let her know that John was going to be coming by, and asked if she'd give him a hard time because he hasn't been very responsible.

sigh. big mistake. he should have been on the lease. you're responsible for the rent and it's your responsibility to make sure it's on time. really the landlords now have ground to evict all of you. and if he really wanted he doesnt have to pay you squat. and verbal agreements are worth squat so even if you wanted to collect the money you'd be out of luck unless you can prove he agreed to that amount and even then it would be months before you saw anything

The reason he isn't on the lease was because I moved in in September and he moved in in Mid December. I suppose I could have drawn up a new lease and everything, but I didn't really consider what my legal rights were, I didn't expect to have a problem.

It's very unlikely that the landlord would want to evict me. I'm quiet and respectful and clean and pay on time and such. The sublease he signed does state an agreement to pay a certain amount though, don't I have legal recourse if he refuses?

You pay $1600 a month for how many rooms? Jesus Christ, I thought the rents here were high.

As Krynn mentioned, 1600 for where I live is pretty good. I have a fairly large apartment. I'm essentially in the heart of Boston, where closet-sized studios go for $900-1000 and decent ones can cost $1300. It's also worth noting that all of my utilities are included. So $1600 covers everything.

Alice said that if we want to get rid of John, Kate and I can keep the place for about $1200-1300 just the two of us, but with her not working it's a bit hard to swing. The only thing I don't like about this apartment is it takes me about an hour to get to and from work.

As far as judging income goes. I pay $1000 for rent and such. That's about half my monthly income from work. Throw in another $100 or so for my phone, websites and travel, a few hundred for food, and I still have some spending money left over, so I can't really complain.

I can't imagine that kind of rent. You can get a mortgage here for a huge ass house in the nicest part of town for the kind of money.

That's actually a good point. You can get a mortgage here in some of the surrounding towns for that kind of money too. I'm not sure where you're from, but the thing that makes buying a house difficult, around here at least, is that you need to have good credit and a decent amount of money for a down payment. Even on a $200,000 house, you're looking at a downpayment of, you know, $10-20,000, which I don't have. I also don't have good credit. I'm hoping to buy a house within a couple of years though.

In Louisiana I was paying 475 for a two bedroom duplex. My cousin up here in Connecticut found a similar place for $950. In Florida I had a two bedroom apartment near Orlando and it was $800. It all depends on the location.

Yeah, I think I lived right around where you did in Florida - Winter Park? I think you went to the same school there as my roommate. Anyway, yeah, we had a gorgeous two bedroom there for like $750, but, you know, minimum wage was a lot lower there too.

stop caring about pointless things like clean plates.

You are gross, sir.

Oooooh, that is just not true. There are many reasons why clean plates are pointfull. If you don't clean them you have nothing to eat off, and they start to smell after a while, and attract vermin. Aside from that, they create a depressing living environment. Plates should be clean. Plates are happy when they're clean. People are happy when the plates are clean.

Agreed. Luckily we haven't had any kind of bug/mouse problem so far, but once they get in, they are there to stay.

Dirty plates? I'm so very happy we have a dishwasher in this house. I have dirty house-mates by even my own low standards, but the worst that happens is that I'm the one picking the plates out of the machine after five days of them just sitting there.

So get a dishwasher. And yes, considering the rent status of your girlfriend, there's at least one misogynistic joke to be made here.

Oh she makes those misogynistic jokes all the time, believe me.

As far as the dishwasher goes, I've had one in one of the apartments I had before, but I grew up without one, and honestly I don't really care one way or the other about them. If I got a new apartment and it had one, cool, but if not, no big deal. I actually find doing dishes relaxing. I wouldn't even mind so much if he left dirty dishes in the sink and I had to clean them, it's just the fact that he won't even remove them from his room. This morning I went to make myself a cup of tea and what the **** there are NO mugs in my cabinets.

I mention this more because the root of the problem - the lack of socialising - came primarily because the 'other' housemate started out hating how 'couple-y' the other two were, and developed this whole general dislike of the girlfriend after she started making hissy faces about how little they hung out.

Now that's a good point, too. John has been having some relationship problems lately (I think he's finally about to leave his girlfriend). Kate and I aren't exactly the kind to sit there and snuggle for hours in front of people, but I do understand how hanging out with a stable couple can enhance the realisation of how broken your own is.

Yikes, for the dishes, like people said, just tell him to wash them. And rent is important so, yeah, don't let him slide on that.

I've been living by myself for a few years. 50% of my stipend goes toward this, but it's worth it.

Someone I somewhat-knew asked to share an apartment last year. I considered it for 10 seconds and decided against it. Now I'm really glad as I think he'd probably have been like yours. Has never washed a single dish by hand in his life, never peeled or cut a single vegetable or fruit (I genuinely doubt he's ever used a knife on raw food before), never boiled an egg. People like that irritate me. I totally understand that someone might not know how to do those things if their parents terribly spoiled them and they lived in a dorm, but once you get an apartment, at least try.

When he first moved into town I let him borrow a sleeping bag and blankets, and when I went to pick them up (yes I had to carry them home, he didn't offer to bring them to back for me; and actually I had to carry them to his apartment too) -- they were in a messy pile on the floor because he didn't know how to fold a sheet or roll a sleeping bag. I literally rolled it for him while he stood there like "LOLOLOL I've never done that before." :flame:

And then there was the part where I spent some of my own time finding his apartment for him to his ridiculous specifications, then had to listen to him whine for a month because "there's marks on the wall" or "my refrigerator isn't working, let me feel your refrigerator -- OH HEY my refrigerator really is working but I was too stupid to know."

Yeah.... I'm never rooming with anyone ever.

Jesus that's ridiculous, good thing you didn't get roped into that.

Tell him to get his own dishes. Probably the only way to change a slob is to go hardcore. Don't be understanding. Tell him not to leave one dirty dish laying about, or he will need to move out that very day. Like the minute he finishes eating, tell him to stick it in the dishwasher. Treat him like a child.

Getting his own dishes doesn't really solve the problem. We have more than enough dishes, if they are all cleaned. I think that all 3 of us could go for an entire day of 3 meals, cooking and eating, without having to clean a single thing. We have that much. But the problem is that when things get lost in his room for days at a time and I need them. Getting his own dishes would only give him more to stock up before he's forced to clean them.

Treating him like a child does seem like the only option I have, but I really don't want to do that.

My room mate rarely ever does his dishes. He works the same amount of hours each week that I do, but spends his time off 20 feet from piles of dishes stewing in the sink ignoring them to play video games lazily. Once in a while when his girlfriend comes over and he decides to cook - he does them.

Oh man, that's totally it right there. He doesn't even cook when his girlfriend or friends come over, they just get takeout which also sits around stinking for days. I don't think I've ever seen him actually take out the trash.

As far as work goes, yeah, he works around the same amount of hours I do, and it's at Starbucks, it's not like he has a hard job. He'll work an 8 hour day and act like he's just been there for double that.

And, you know, I still find time to do dishes and laundry and vacuum and stuff.

I'll just put this here as something I was thinking about earlier. I don't like when anyone tells me what to do. I might not do it, even if I was going to do it before they told me. I mean to an extent at least. Some people are very defiant/stubborn or don't like to be told what to do. The saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink."

So maybe you can simply pose it as a question. Like, instead of saying "stop leaving the dishes here and there.", ask him "how do you fix something to eat when you don't have any clean plates?"; "do you have any plates because we don't seem to have enough?"; "do you mind giving me a hand with the dishes?" (roll up your sleeves, as in right now)

But don't be passive aggressive, AKA - "do you know where we keep the dishrags?"

Or you can do what I suggested earlier and be rid of him.

The "I'm not going to do it because I was told to" is a good point too. It's part of why I waited until the 7th to remind him about rent. It's like, "I'm going to tell you now, because you've had more than enough time to fix it on your own".

Questions are an excellent idea, it'll make it seem like he's doing me a favour instead of me bossing him around. It'll probably inflate his sense of self-worth which will irritate me, but at least shit will get done, and maybe eventually it'll be routine.

The best roomies are recluses, who cares if they are your friend, just get someone who will leave you alone and pay their shit.

But he's not paying his shit and he's not taking care of my shit.

The trick is to set up ground rules before everyone settles in, "Everyone does their own dishes after cooking"

Ground rules would have been a good idea, but I didn't think shit like that really needed to be said. I mean, I figured a 23 year old man would know to wash his ****ing plates.

Just because someone had shitty parents that didn't teach them how to take care of themselves does not mean you have to fill in that role while you live with them.

That's exactly how I feel. I'm not sure how to go about saying "Hey don't use my silverware" or anything though, especially when I'm often not around to enforce it.

Anyway, last night after I talk to the landlady, John texts me again, and he says that he wants to be honest, and he hasn't told anyone about this before, but his parents are having some money trouble and might lose the house. And that's, you know, that happened to my parents a couple years ago too, and I know how much it sucks.

So he says that he isn't sure how long he can keep doing this, because it's spreading him so thin, giving them most of his money and keeping just enough to live on. I told him that if he has to go back and live with them for a while to really help them out, that would be totally fine, he wouldn't have to worry about getting out of the sublease or anything. I'm just really ****ing hoping he takes the out and goes.

 

[CptStern]

you should have drawn up a lease for your roommate as he's subletting from you which makes you responsible for the rent. rental property companies charge interest on late rent. I'm not saying you should chatrge interest but you really should be more professional because you're basically entering into a contract when you agreed to let him move in

also you're starting off on the wrong foot with your girlfriend. she has zero incentive to get a job to pay for rent. you should establish a minimum payment goal for every month while she's living with you. say pay for groceries once a month or pay hyrdo/cable/phone whatever. right now she's getting a free ride and the tradeoff is sex

 

[No Limit]

If his employer pays him with a check from a bank in your city he doesn't have to go to his bank to cash it, he can go to the bank that issued the check.

Also:

That's actually a good point. You can get a mortgage here in some of the surrounding towns for that kind of money too. I'm not sure where you're from, but the thing that makes buying a house difficult, around here at least, is that you need to have good credit and a decent amount of money for a down payment. Even on a $200,000 house, you're looking at a downpayment of, you know, $10-20,000, which I don't have. I also don't have good credit. I'm hoping to buy a house within a couple of years though.

There are some first time home buyer programs out there that you can look in to which can help you avoid or minimize the down payment. When I was looking they had some 0% down programs or programs with a 5% down payment and no mortgage insurance. But yeah, you will need good credit.

 

[Yorick]

you should have drawn up a lease for your roommate as he's subletting from you which makes you responsible for the rent. rental property companies charge interest on late rent. I'm not saying you should chatrge interest but you really should be more professional because you're basically entering into a contract when you agreed to let him move in

Indeed, a mistake I won't make again. The sublease simply says that he has to abide by the original lease (which he has a copy of). I'll be far more specific next time.

also you're starting off on the wrong foot with your girlfriend. she has zero incentive to get a job to pay for rent. you should establish a minimum payment goal for every month while she's living with you. say pay for groceries once a month or pay hyrdo/cable/phone whatever. right now she's getting a free ride and the tradeoff is sex

Once a month she comes to work with me through a temp agency because I need an extra person around. It ends up being about $120 that she puts towards food. Despite her age, our relationship doesn't work like you might think. She's busting ass to try and find a job (had an interview with Apple on Sunday) because she doesn't like feeling like a mooch. I've rarely had to even mention the subject short of some recommendations on where to look because she's independent / driven / responsible. It's mere circumstance that's preventing her from having gotten one already (young, little experience, little extra education).

If his employer pays him with a check from a bank in your city he doesn't have to go to his bank to cash it, he can go to the bank that issued the check.

Ohhh, good point, I think I'll mention that.

There are some first time home buyer programs out there that you can look in to which can help you avoid or minimize the down payment. When I was looking they had some 0% down programs or programs with a 5% down payment and no mortgage insurance. But yeah, you will need good credit.

Oh absolutely. I think you need fantastic (over 650-700) credit for something like that but they certainly do exist. I had really good credit until a few years ago when I screwed myself over (dumb kids being kids). I've got almost all of my debt gone though so I'm hoping to start building it back up soon.

Once Kate gets a job we'll be doing much better on that front.

 

[Yorick]

So I sent John a text last night asking about rent, and he replied that he hasn't gone to the bank. Here's the deal with that. We live in Boston, he's from another town in southern Mass. His bank doesn't have a branch here, but that do have one in the city I work in (about an hour travel from our apartment, his home is further than that).

Now, he can't open up a new account in a local bank because he doesn't have any ID. For the past two months he's been taking forever getting paychecks cashed and such because he has to go back home to use the bank - which is retarded.

So he tells me that he hasn't had a chance to go, because he's been working 12-7 every day. I asked why he didn't go before that, and he asked how he'd get home and back before noon, and I reminded him again of the other branch.

Last night he goes out with this girl, comes home at 9am this morning, and goes to bed. Since he's still asleep, it does not look as though he'll make it to the bank yet again, thus squandering his day off.

HURR MY LIVE IS SO HARD LET ME GO OUT DRINKING EVERY NIGHT AND IGNORE MY RESPONSIBILITIES.

 

[CptStern]

man put a deadline on when he has to have the money in your hand. I'd give him to the end of the week and then threaten to go to landlord with your half and say he reneged on his half. it's a bluff seeing as how your name is on the lease not his but you cant let him walk all over you or you'll be dealing with this every month. you can also threaten eviction

"look I like having you as a roommate but I cant afford to cover you every month and will be forced to look for a roommate who'll pay on time. it's not personal but I'm afraid the landlord's patience will eventually run out"

 

[DEATH eVADER]

The thing that annoys Kate the most is that he only really talks to us when he's having some kind of problem.

And now you decided to share your problems with us. Grrrr now I'm going to tell all my mates how depressed I am with this thread

 

[B_MAN]

why doesn't your girlfriend contribute?
isn't that the real issue here?

 

[Maestro]

why doesn't your girlfriend contribute?
isn't that the real issue here?

I think Yorick has made it pretty clear he likes his girlfriend, he does not like his roommate.

 

[Danimal]

I hope your girlfriend gives great BJ's 'cause it sounds like she's getting a pretty free ride here.

 

[JUL3]

Is there an award for 'longest post ever' on this forum?

 

[Yorick]

I think Yorick has made it pretty clear he likes his girlfriend, he does not like his roommate.

I actually do like hanging out with him. He's got a good sense of humour and we like the same games and everything. He's just a lousy roommate.

So last night when I got home from work, and interrupted his World of Warcraft raid (I hope they all ****ing wiped) to talk to him. Sat him down in the kitchen and laid everything out, explained what problems I had in a clear manner, not yelling or rude (which I'm sure you all know was pretty difficult for me).

He argued with me on every single point, and then finally said "I'm not having this conversation". And I said, "Okay. If things aren't going to change than we need to go our separate ways."

So, he's going to be moving out. I figure, it's the 9th now, if he doesn't move out by the 15th, I'll make him pay for the month, since I'll have to go ahead and repaint his ****ing bedroom.

Thanks for all the help gents. Time to start over again and do it right this time. <3

 

[dfc05]

Wow. That is ridiculous. I can't really see any logical/mature thought process that leads to "I would rather move out than have to wash my dishes and pay rent."

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Probably a dumbass spoiled white boy. Good riddance. Of whitey.

 

[kazsymonds]

The best roomies are recluses, who cares if they are your friend, just get someone who will leave you alone and pay their shit.

I'm like that. I live with an acquaintance. I spend all my time in my room and he can't understand why I wouldn't want to hang out with him. His GF moved in last year, and she always wants to chat to me, and I always chat with her but I get the feeling it's really only for her benefit.

The guy is OTT though, his way of asking for something to be done is to moan it to me. e.g. The other day he said "it's gotta be your turn to clean the bathroom, kas". It was my turn, but some people are so condescending / entitled / don't know how to communicate with others without alienating them.

Can't wait to own my own place.

 

[CptStern]

I actually do like hanging out with him. He's got a good sense of humour and we like the same games and everything. He's just a lousy roommate.

So last night when I got home from work, and interrupted his World of Warcraft raid (I hope they all ****ing wiped) to talk to him. Sat him down in the kitchen and laid everything out, explained what problems I had in a clear manner, not yelling or rude (which I'm sure you all know was pretty difficult for me).

He argued with me on every single point, and then finally said "I'm not having this conversation". And I said, "Okay. If things aren't going to change than we need to go our separate ways."

So, he's going to be moving out. I figure, it's the 9th now, if he doesn't move out by the 15th, I'll make him pay for the month, since I'll have to go ahead and repaint his ****ing bedroom.

Thanks for all the help gents. Time to start over again and do it right this time. <3

by law you have to give him 60 days notice that he has to leave. if he leaves voluntarily he has to give you minimum 30 days notice. also you cant charge him for half a month and claim it was for painting his room. you should immediately serve a eviction notice; in writing with a clear date and time of eviction. by law he has 60 days to comply and at that point you'd have to call a sheriff to have him evicted. at that point you could sue him for the rent he owes for those 60 days.

you left it up in the air when he said ""Okay. If things aren't going to change than we need to go our separate ways." you should have said

"Okay. it's not working out we need to go our separate ways. please have your stuff out by the 15th" you're bluffing at this point because you cant evict him on the spot.

 

[Yorick]

by law you have to give him 60 days notice that he has to leave. if he leaves voluntarily he has to give you minimum 30 days notice. also you cant charge him for half a month and claim it was for painting his room. you should immediately serve a eviction notice; in writing with a clear date and time of eviction. by law he has 60 days to comply and at that point you'd have to call a sheriff to have him evicted. at that point you could sue him for the rent he owes for those 60 days.

I'm not charging him for a half-month. I'm simply saying that if he isn't out by the halfway point, he should have to pay for the month (and then be out by the 28th instead of the 15th). Which he agreed to. Legally he should have already paid for this month - and on account of the paint, I should be able to keep some of the security deposit, but no matter.

Suing is definitely not something I want to be bothered with doing, and it's still him leaving voluntarily, though it wasn't his idea. While he may see himself as innocent, he can still agree that this situation is not working out.

Adding "x days notice" just overcomplicates and stresses an already tense situation. I think we'd both rather just have it over quickly. Plus, if he doesn't have the money by now for this month, what's he going to have for next month? What am I going to get from sueing him? How long will that take? It's just a pain.

Regardless, he has started packing up his things today.