Unreal engine 3.0, dedicated psychic prosessor card support

EVIL said:
according to this article
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/08/news_6119896.html
Unreal engine 3.0 has support for the first dedicated physics prosessor card (PPU)

The physics are currently calculated by your CPU, and thus only having toe possebility's for minor physics calculation and a max of 30/40 objecs on screen, but the PPU cards enable 30.000/40.000 objects with heavy calculations and stuff like realistic water and such

w00tage!
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Seems fascinating and quite cool, but there is a problem. Historically there has always been hardware support for new features before any type of software has been able to support these new features. Almost every instance of a new technology in the modern PC has gone from Hardware support to Software support. Some examples are USB and AGP (each was adopted by hardware manufacturers first before software developers started using them).

I'm not counting on this until somebody announces a dedicated add-on card that contains a PPU. Then you will have lackluster performance for the first two generations and then standard wars and then headaches for the next three generations. Then nirvana will exist for PPU. :p
 
so a seperate card, for physic's calculation's.. ok, sounds cool, providing that they dont charge the earth for them.. wait one second.. why cant they just integrate it into next gen GPU's, and keep it as one package, thats way simpler. I cant help but feel computer's should be developing in such a way, where progressively there are less part's and more integration .. i always suspect stuff like this as money grabbing plans when they try to pitch idea's for more component's. when they can quite happily be integrated into and all inclusive package, im sure ill eat my words when they do integrated packages.
 
blahblahblah said:
Seems fascinating and quite cool, but there is a problem. Historically there has always been hardware support for new features before any type of software has been able to support these new features. Almost every instance of a new technology in the modern PC has gone from Hardware support to Software support. Some examples are USB and AGP (each was adopted by hardware manufacturers first before software developers started using them).

I'm not counting on this until somebody announces a dedicated add-on card that contains a PPU. Then you will have lackluster performance for the first two generations and then standard wars and then headaches for the next three generations. Then nirvana will exist for PPU. :p
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They already have about 5 games that will use the PPU (as long as the game uses Novadek physics engine, it will work with the PPU... just depends if the game uses like the hair and cloth effects etc etc) and they said they have about 10-15 more that are looking at using the PPU....

Seeing as the benefits of this, I'm sure many people will explore it :)

Considering its going to be used in Unreal ENGINE 3.0 that means any game that uses UE3 will have support for the PPU....
 
The Dark Elf said:
none :) NDA's are up there with promises for me. I don't break neither :p
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You can't get sued for a promise :p

But what's your professional part in this then that you need to sign an NDA for it? That would only be if you're involved in it or if you're press right?
 
NDA is if you are involved with the project in any way shape or form (beta testing to programmer) and also includes press and people with publishers.

Basically anyone who can look at the game early must sign an NDA if they want to keep stuff secret.
 
babyheadcrab said:
you agree to changing pants? what the hell is wrong with you.
Click to expand...

Because poop was in my pants. :eek:
 
"Big guys like Gabe Novell, the developer of Half Life 2"
*chuckles*
 
I had to put on a new pair of pants for a different reason.
 
It's not upgradeable by sticking bits of the Unreal engine in it.

If you meant "can Valve implement this themselves?", then the answer is yes.

However, Valve are extremely cagey about their future plans for the engine.
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
It's not upgradeable by sticking bits of the Unreal engine in it.

If you meant "can Valve implement this themselves?", then the answer is yes.

However, Valve are extremely cagey about their future plans for the engine.
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Ok If you say so :thumbs:
 
AGEIA PhysX Interview

"Computer Games - Since the announcement, some people (including some game developers) have expressed skepticism that the average PC gamer would spend extra to have a physics processor on their PC. What is your response to this?

Curtis Davis - If you purchase a new GPU, you will experience 2X or 3X performance improvements, whereas with a PPU you can expect to see 100x performance improvement in effects and more interactive game play. Additionally, it's about the titles. We will have at least five titles that matter that will take advantage of the PPU and hard core gamers want the best experience possible. Also, this will be available to motherboard and laptop manufacturers as well as add in card vendors."

link: http://www.cgonline.com/content/view/451/2/
 
NikolaX said:
"Computer Games - Since the announcement, some people (including some game developers) have expressed skepticism that the average PC gamer would spend extra to have a physics processor on their PC. What is your response to this?

Curtis Davis - If you purchase a new GPU, you will experience 2X or 3X performance improvements, whereas with a PPU you can expect to see 100x performance improvement in effects and more interactive game play. Additionally, it's about the titles. We will have at least five titles that matter that will take advantage of the PPU and hard core gamers want the best experience possible. Also, this will be available to motherboard and laptop manufacturers as well as add in card vendors."

link: http://www.cgonline.com/content/view/451/2/
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Hell I would buy one!Count me in.
 
"Computer Games - We have all seen things like ragdoll deaths for game characters as well as object movements. Will the AGEIA solution allow for other features like true terrain deformation in games (a la Red Faction) or real physics for things like water and particles?

Curtis Davis - Absolutely, next generation games will take those type of effects to a whole new level of magnitude. Physics will offer a host of advanced features including universal collision detection, rigid-body dynamics, soft-body dynamics, fluid dynamics, smart particle systems, clothing simulation, soft-body deformation with tearing, and brittle fracturing for destruction of objects in gaming environments."

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
 
yay, geomoding!!

*me creams*

I love Geomoding ffs!!
 
Sprafa, so do I, imagine a game where you can blow away a mountain only to watch it "cripple" realisticly, mmm...*changes pants after major orgasm*
 
Geomod is more about subdivision than physics.
 
you people need to get a GIRL, then change your pants! OMG..
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
It's not upgradeable by sticking bits of the Unreal engine in it.

If you meant "can Valve implement this themselves?", then the answer is yes.

However, Valve are extremely cagey about their future plans for the engine.
Click to expand...

Once these physics cards start turning up, I'd be very very surprised if the havok engine didn't get support for them. It would be like making a game software mode only. So I reckon at some point Source will allow support for them

Even then im sure some clever bod will find some kind of way to redirect such things to a card in games that wouldn't normally support it. Dunno how exactly but there's always somebody that manages to do crazy things like that.
 
Personally, I can see Microsoft stepping in

DirectPhysics anyone?
 
Pi Mu Rho said:
Personally, I can see Microsoft stepping in

DirectPhysics anyone?
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If it set standards as well as DirectX did, I'd buy it.
 
I've been waiting for this since I saw the StrangeBunny water simulation :O I sat there, thinking, 'If people had a card dedicated to this, you could get fluid dynamics ingame'.

Sweeeeeeeeet
 
You know, wouldn't this also free up CPU requirments a bit?
 
Wee! Can't wait 'til year 2006 when the first Unreal Engine 3.0 games come out. :D
 
could be cool if this developed further. Right now video cards have to do the lot. But imagine if it was split up. You'd have different cards for different area's (above the main video card) Each kind would be different companies, prices, quality. And if they all followed a set standard, lets say for the sake of argument, DX11

Video card - the all in one thing as it is now, still required as normal

physics card

lighting card

AI card

so you'd have your game running at its basic with just a video card alone.. Then you buy one of the others, the game detects one is installed, and what specs its running at, then installs the resources set for that model of card.

Just think how much better Doom3 would be if it had had a card _just_ for the lighting and shadows, since thats all that card would do it could really go to town on the effects, decent looking light and shadow on the top of the line cards, and even the bottom end of the market would still be considerably better quality than Doom3 currently is.

The AI card would have tons and tons of AI code inside it, and enough processing power to take care of whole crowds of AI controlled NPC's.. Think Rome total war only with each individual entity having the same "brainpower" as something you'd find inside Massive (LotR's crowd simulator app)

just idle thinking :)
 
clarky003 said:
so a seperate card, for physic's calculation's.. ok, sounds cool, providing that they dont charge the earth for them.. wait one second.. why cant they just integrate it into next gen GPU's, and keep it as one package, thats way simpler. I cant help but feel computer's should be developing in such a way, where progressively there are less part's and more integration .. i always suspect stuff like this as money grabbing plans when they try to pitch idea's for more component's. when they can quite happily be integrated into and all inclusive package, im sure ill eat my words when they do integrated packages.
Click to expand...


I have always heard that is what Nvidia and Ati would be doing with their future cards, perhaps they will still do that, but only offer it on their very highend cards.
 
The Dark Elf said:
could be cool if this developed further. Right now video cards have to do the lot. But imagine if it was split up. You'd have different cards for different area's (above the main video card) Each kind would be different companies, prices, quality. And if they all followed a set standard, lets say for the sake of argument, DX11

Video card - the all in one thing as it is now, still required as normal

physics card

lighting card

AI card

so you'd have your game running at its basic with just a video card alone.. Then you buy one of the others, the game detects one is installed, and what specs its running at, then installs the resources set for that model of card.

Just think how much better Doom3 would be if it had had a card _just_ for the lighting and shadows, since thats all that card would do it could really go to town on the effects, decent looking light and shadow on the top of the line cards, and even the bottom end of the market would still be considerably better quality than Doom3 currently is.

The AI card would have tons and tons of AI code inside it, and enough processing power to take care of whole crowds of AI controlled NPC's.. Think Rome total war only with each individual entity having the same "brainpower" as something you'd find inside Massive (LotR's crowd simulator app)

just idle thinking :)
Click to expand...
Well you also have to think about the industy behind it.

For a hard core gamer that would want a lanable system he would have to go with a small mobo that couldn't fit all those cards on it.

So what do you do?

Easy...intergrate the physics card, lighting card, and AI card into one package.You have to think about the whole industry when it comes to something like that.
 
The Dark Elf said:
could be cool if this developed further. Right now video cards have to do the lot. But imagine if it was split up. You'd have different cards for different area's (above the main video card) Each kind would be different companies, prices, quality. And if they all followed a set standard, lets say for the sake of argument, DX11

Video card - the all in one thing as it is now, still required as normal

physics card

lighting card

AI card

so you'd have your game running at its basic with just a video card alone.. Then you buy one of the others, the game detects one is installed, and what specs its running at, then installs the resources set for that model of card.

Just think how much better Doom3 would be if it had had a card _just_ for the lighting and shadows, since thats all that card would do it could really go to town on the effects, decent looking light and shadow on the top of the line cards, and even the bottom end of the market would still be considerably better quality than Doom3 currently is.

The AI card would have tons and tons of AI code inside it, and enough processing power to take care of whole crowds of AI controlled NPC's.. Think Rome total war only with each individual entity having the same "brainpower" as something you'd find inside Massive (LotR's crowd simulator app)

just idle thinking :)
Click to expand...


I think Lighting and Shadows will always stay with graphics cards, but an Ai card might be a step in the right direction but whether it would take off or not, we would have to wait and see. For people to go out a buy an Ai card, the card must be supported by games and gamers must see a marked improvement then if the cpu just did the Ai.
 
Tr0n said:
Well you also have to think about the industy behind it.

For a hard core gamer that would want a lanable system he would have to go with a small mobo that couldn't fit all those cards on it.

So what do you do?

Easy...intergrate the physics card, lighting card, and AI card into one package.You have to think about the whole industry when it comes to something like that.
Click to expand...
I prefer the modular approach, that way you can mix and match and it'll finally do away with "my card is better than yours" cause you can then just go for the best one, regardless, so you could have a Matrox physics card, an ATI video card, an nVidia lighting card and a voodoo AI card heh.
 
And Pi or someone could at least tell us when we get to hear about this top secret project of his :).
 
Razor said:
I think Lighting and Shadows will always stay with graphics cards, but an Ai card might be a step in the right direction but whether it would take off or not, we would have to wait and see. For people to guy out a buy an Ai card, the card must be supported by games and gamers must see a marked improvement then if the cpu just did the Ai.
Click to expand...

If the main video card took care of the basics, so you'd get obviously good quality from it on its own. The others would just be like boosters. like back in the old days on the Amiga, you'd have 4096 colors on screen at once if you wanted in HAM (hold and modify) mode. But then you could go out and buy a special graphics card to allow display of 24bit 16 million colors. Ok so back then they were always incompatible with each other's software. But you weren't limited to which you got. And you could still use the machine happily without them.

So you'd have your ATI X92341XT Pro all in wonder. As your video card, which would quite happily run at blinding speeds, with good quality and be DX11 or whatever compliant.. But if you wanted that little extra, since a single card is going to get seriously bogged down trying to do too much, so you'd get another to help out in a specific area, and since each of those cards would be built purely to work on that area, it wouldn't really have many limits.

mpeg encoding cards are another example.. yeah you can encode mpeg format video through the cpu and software, but stick one of those cards in and it does it all hardware based, flies through it and gives a far better result. You don't need one though, it just improves on whats already possible.
 
The Dark Elf said:
If the main video card took care of the basics, so you'd get obviously good quality from it on its own. The others would just be like boosters. like back in the old days on the Amiga, you'd have 4096 colors on screen at once if you wanted in HAM (hold and modify) mode. But then you could go out and buy a special graphics card to allow display of 24bit 16 million colors. Ok so back then they were always incompatible with each other's software. But you weren't limited to which you got. And you could still use the machine happily without them.

So you'd have your ATI X92341XT Pro all in wonder. As your video card, which would quite happily run at blinding speeds, with good quality and be DX11 or whatever compliant.. But if you wanted that little extra, since a single card is going to get seriously bogged down trying to do too much, so you'd get another to help out in a specific area, and since each of those cards would be built purely to work on that area, it wouldn't really have many limits.

mpeg encoding cards are another example.. yeah you can encode mpeg format video through the cpu and software, but stick one of those cards in and it does it all hardware based, flies through it and gives a far better result. You don't need one though, it just improves on whats already possible.
Click to expand...


I know what you mean, like the Voodoo and Voodoo2 cards :).
 
Razor said:
And Pi or someone could at least tell us when we get to hear about this top secret project of his :).
Click to expand...
Wouldnt mind hearing some details about it myself

and to stay on topic :D - I like the idea of diffrent cards, I think you would be cheaper out if you have multiple cards then one package, dude, it will be to costly to devlop, so to make profet they would need to give it a serious pricetag. IMO It would be mutch better to have multiple dedicated cards and each their speciallity having their own compeditive market of developers bringing the prices down.

edit: nah pi, just do you thing man, develop it and show us some amazing media when you guys have a game that is at the level that you want to show to the public, good luck to you and the team, and I am crossing my fingers to see a game worthy of playing :D.

And good to see I am not the only one working on a "top secret" game project :D
icon14.gif
 
It'll be worth the wait, I promise.
 
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