Unreal Engine 3.

[-Psy-]

Unfortunately, it's underlying structure is ancient (bsp?? qc files?!) and it's toolset isn't refined enough.

Exactly. That's the reason why so many game developers have decided not to use Source.

 

[Ennui]

Frank Gibeau, president of Electronic Arts, added, "With the largest and most talented studio operation in the world, it's critical for us to give our studio teams the best tools they need to make great games.

"With the largest and most talented studio operation in the world, it's critical for us to give our studio teams the best tools they need to make great games.

"With the largest and most talented studio operation in the world

most talented studio operation in the world

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Yeah right, suck it bitches. Epic is better than EA too... which is probably why EA is licensing their engine

 

[Kadayi]

Unfortunately, it's underlying structure is ancient (bsp?? qc files?!) and it's toolset isn't refined enough.

QFT. Part of the problem with Valve is that primarily they are a design house and the guys they have working as level designers are so used to using Hammer with all it's flaws they can't see the wood for the trees it seems when it comes just how janky it is in terms of interface and feedback. Coming to it from a CAD/3D background, I was like 'WtH'. Valve need to take a look at an intuitive and user friendly app like sketchup (www.sketchup.com) and rip it off big time for ideas as to how to revamp Hammer to make it more enticing for developers.

Also, I counter-hate people who hate Carmack. Sure, he's made some bad decisions in recent years with id Tech 4, but the man is a genius. Technically his engine is the best out there. He's the one pushing boundaries (alongside Crytek), not Source or UE3.

Agreed. I think he'll forever be stained with the whole 'plot in games is like storyline in porn' comment, but without his innovations the gaming world wouldn't be where it is today. I also think Tech 5 looks pretty damn impressive.

 

[Gray Fox]

I can somewhat understand if they like hammer they way it works with building stuff.
But the qc system really needs to go, pretty much every other editing tool has a simple point and click gui interface for importing stuff.
It would save so much time and money if they updated their toolset.

I came from 3dsmax( which I don't like either) and dammed was hammer a shock.
And considering now I'm used to Zbrush, sketchup and silo, it really isn,t getting any more attractive.

 

[Kyorisu]

I can somewhat understand if they like hammer they way it works with building stuff.
But the qc system really needs to go, pretty much every other editing tool has a simple point and click gui interface for importing stuff.
It would save so much time and money if they updated their toolset.

I came from 3dsmax( which I don't like either) and dammed was hammer a shock.
And considering now I'm used to Zbrush, sketchup and silo, it really isn,t getting any more attractive.

Hammer is an absolute piece of shit I have to agree. Actually it wouldn't be so bad if I could get some real time radiosity in the editor only even.

 

[Blackthorn]

I'm a fan of the Unreal engine for the simple fact it runs so damn well. I'm tired, as I'm sure many PC gamers are, of loading up a game onto a system which I've invested a lot of money into and discovering it doesn't perform well. Yet I can load up Gears of War, which still has some of the best graphics I've seen, and play it flawlessly. Then I load up BioShock and it's the same story, with a totally different look to it.

I'm no developer, so I have no idea just what tricks they employ to make it run so well, but I highly appreciate it. People were all over the new CryEngine, but if you make an engine that can't run well on most gaming systems, you have failed the consumer. The Unreal engine succeeds, and that it is why it's successful. Hating the Unreal engine makes little sense to me, since we're the ones who gain from it.

 

[Kadayi]

I can somewhat understand if they like hammer they way it works with building stuff.

The only way anyone could like Hammer was if they knew no other way of modeling things, which seems to be the case I suspect. I love Valves games, but there's an incredible amount of Janky shit going on with them as well. Talented? yes, efficient designers? probably far less than people envisage.

 

[Asuka]

I'm pretty sure Valve is working on a new tool set as we speak. Ill be damn surprised if after Episode 3 they are still using Source with Hammer. I'm having this feeling they will create crazy stuff after that. I think they are just trying to make the best of Source as it is now. I mean it still looks and feels like one of the best engines to play in. They really didn't have any need to upgrade, but it is about that time again. Mark my works Half-Life 3 will not be on Source.

 

[Pesmerga]

Where should I mark them?

 

[Deleted member 56031]

On the face of dead guy in your avatar or better yet a sig

 

[Kadayi]

I'm pretty sure Valve is working on a new tool set as we speak. Ill be damn surprised if after Episode 3 they are still using Source with Hammer. I'm having this feeling they will create crazy stuff after that. I think they are just trying to make the best of Source as it is now. I mean it still looks and feels like one of the best engines to play in. They really didn't have any need to upgrade, but it is about that time again. Mark my works Half-Life 3 will not be on Source.

It's not the engine that's the problem, it's the antiquated toolset they are using. The sad truth is, when they first highlighted the engine back in the mists of time it looked like it was going to rock the entire industry and become a real contender to other licensed engines (like Unreal). Unfortunately I think Valves credibility took a real hit over the code theft and that dissuaded a lot of developers from adopting it, and the complete lack of decent user friendly tools hasn't helped either.

They need to go back to formula with Hammer and build a real time editor with drag and drop capabilities that are on a par with what other game engine developers are producing. One of the reasons for Unreals popularity is down to the fact that Epic got in on working on console games early on, and it focussed them on making good tool sets.

As for developing an entirely new game engine for Halflife 3, I'm pretty sure Gabe Newell discounted that idea. Valve developed the Source engine to be adaptable and iterative. I expect the Source engine Halflife 3 runs on will be significantly different from the one we know today, but at it's core it will still be the same engine.

 

[VirusType2]

As for developing an entirely new game engine for Halflife 3, I'm pretty sure Gabe Newell discounted that idea. Valve developed the Source engine to be adaptable and iterative. I expect the Source engine Halflife 3 runs on will be significantly different from the one we know today, but at it's core it will still be the same engine.

I want to see a discarded newspaper in the streets flap around in the breeze, pages flying out, paper opening up and floating through the air realistically and then slap you in the face and your entire view is the paper covering your eyes, and the text is blurred, but you can read the large print from the sunlight shining through the paper, and the newspaper says something readable 'City 17 - Is it really safer here?' or something, and the paper falls down. You look down and you have feet with a newspaper draped over one foot. It makes a paper sound when you step on it. The Metrocop tells you to "Pick it up.", "Now put it in the trash." - some intentional deja-vu to make Half-Life fans cheer.

thats what Half-Life3 is to me. The kind of game you would dream of playing in the future.

 

[Kadayi]

Personally I'm more interested in seeing where Valve are going with utilizing the dual/quadcore technology as they hinted at in this article:-

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/11/02/Multi_core_in_the_Source_Engin/1

The ability to have far more AI entities operating intelligently in a game world simultaneously (rather than milling around ala Assassins Creed) than we presently are able, means that greater game play opportunities become available. Visual excellence is secondary imho.

 

[VirusType2]

Personally I'm more interested in seeing where Valve are going with utilizing the dual/quadcore technology as they hinted at in this article:-

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/11/02/Multi_core_in_the_Source_Engin/1

The ability to have far more AI entities operating intelligently in a game world simultaneously (rather than milling around ala Assassins Creed) than we presently are able, means that greater game play opportunities become available. Visual excellence is secondary imho.

AI is extremely important. I love in HL2 when you throw a grenade, the enemy will sometimes grab it and throw it back at you. good times.

 

[Kadayi]

I'm not talking so much about tactical AI, but more from an operational perspective. FPS gameworlds are defined by the limitations of the engine technology vs the hardware they are running on. The entire genre is pretty much stuck in a rut of delivering variations on the following formula:-

Individual/co-op battle through semi deserted size limited arenas with fixed AI replicated/uniformed entities.

This is the skeleton underneath the gloss, whether it be Halflife 2, FEAR, Doom 3, Unreal 2, Farcry. There's only so many variations you can put on that skeleton. Deus Ex in contrast hinted at a different approach in places, one where in there was a more robust and active environments going on around the player, in a similar way to that found in RPGs like Morrowind/Oblivion/Nomad Soul and open world games like GTA 3/4. How much richer the storyline/plot potential with the ability to handle greater Ai numbers & complexity.

I want a FPS experience that takes place in a living breathing City, and might actually only involve sporadic bouts of gun play, but against individuals who have personalities and are a real challenge in how they think/behave rather than fighting faceless hordes with typical pathfinding abilities.

 

[Operational]

I want a FPS experience that takes place in a living breathing City, and might actually only involve sporadic bouts of gun play, but against individuals who have personalities and are a real challenge in how they think/behave rather than fighting faceless hordes with typical pathfinding abilities.

Kind of like BioShock, only better.

 

[Rapstah]

AI is extremely important. I love in HL2 when you throw a grenade, the enemy will sometimes grab it and throw it back at you. good times.

That actually never happens in HL2 and only in three places of EP2.

 

[Kadayi]

Kind of like BioShock, only better.

More populated for a start

In all seriousness though. The interesting game space atm seems to be the 3rd person one, GTA IV looks to be sublime and one of my favourite gaming moments of last year was the crowded Nightclub shoot out scene in Kane & Lynch (which was otherwise fairly forgettable). Sure many of the AI had the same skin, but the sheer volume of characters interacting with each other on screen at the same time was something to behold.

 

[Eejit]

I'm not big enough on programming technology to understand the details but I believe Unknown Worlds (NS and NS2) have been making a bunch of tools for Source development which they say other companies have been interested in using.

 

[VirusType2]

That actually never happens in HL2 and only in three places of EP2.

it's been 2 or 3 years since I played HL2, so maybe I'm remembering it wrong. I've actually had someone else dispute it too.

I never actually saw them do it so that's the funny part. It might just be scripted for when they are behind cover. It's like you throw one at them ... seconds later one lands near you, and there was no explosion from the one I threw so it leads me to believe they threw it back. And this was uncommon, but I remember a half dozen times.


BTW I play on the hardest skill level, and maybe they only do it there. I guess it's possible that it bounced back, I'm not stupid though. I really am convinced.


It would be cool if there was some factual confirmation, because everyone's experience is different.

It's really bugging me now. I want to know.

:rolling:

 

[ríomhaire]

It doesn't happen in HL2.

 

[VirusType2]

It doesn't happen in HL2.

well you heard my story. having a grenade come at you while the one you threw went really far away near bad guys and never exploded...

Is it possible that it was caused by collision? like when they walk, it was kicked? I mean the grenades have full physics.

TBH, I could swear they throw them back from behind cover sometimes when they aren't visible. Like there is no animation for it, but I don't think you guys realize how easy it is to script something like that.

code is basically this:

If grenade lands near enemy_1 (proximity check , probably add a timer so they would only attempt it if there was a long fuse left. also do check if line of sight is blocked, so you cant see him)
then enemy_1 launch grenade at player & destroy player_grenade (remove players grenade so it doesn't blow up so it seems that he threw it back. )



If I'm not crazy, I will be soon over this. lol

 

[ríomhaire]

You're crazy.

 

[Nabobalis]

I swear it happened to me at least one.

 

[VirusType2]

I swear it happened to me at least one.

ahh. helping to solidify my resolve. yes. I would swear it. about 6 or 10 times for me.


Do you play on the hard skill level sometimes?

 

[99.vikram]

It happens in HL2.

Sh*t happens in HL2.

 

[Korgoth]

It does happen, at least it did to me in Ep 2. You throw a grenade in a hole in a roof, then they pitch it back out. At least I'm pretty sure this happened lol

 

[PimpinPenguin]

It does happen, at least it did to me in Ep 2. You throw a grenade in a hole in a roof, then they pitch it back out. At least I'm pretty sure this happened lol

I think that particular one is scripted to do so.

 

[Wanted Bob]

In any case, I would be interested to see what improvements to the AI they could make. Sometimes, in Gmod you can really see how advanced they are, generally when you have holed yourself behind makeshift cover.

If they made them smarter in closer quarters, like perhaps adding some dodging manuvers, that would be awesome.