US Government Denies Animal Cruelty -- US Marines Video Document It and Laugh

[repiV]

That you don't need to be insane just to be a soldier -- as PortalStorm suggested.
As I was addressing both and nethire exclusively.

I never made any such claim in the first place, and you've conviniently avoided that point in your reply.
Put simply, what the **** are you talking about? You're babbling nonsense.

Bring them home wasn't the operational thought at hand -- they need someone to talk to over there once and awhile.
They need more of an outlet besides they're gun and a civilian to shoot at.

Er, they do have that?
Your way of phrasing it - "more of an outlet besides (their) gun and a civilian to shoot at" makes you sound like an ignorant twat to boot.

I think we've established that already.

But we can affect the life of someone whose life is being destroyed by it --
and hey, if we start awareness early, the better.

I disagree -- we can do better.

How would you know? I had to explain to you what PTSD is, you don't seem to really grasp the concept so what the hell would you know about treating it? You're not a doctor.

But don't we use that sometimes to excuse they're violence?

It's this whole guilt trip thing thats just not very convincing to whole facade -- can we admit that what soldiers did was wrong?

Or do we have to feel guilty for pointing it out?

Irrelevant. Every little incident is hyped up (plus blaming all the other incidents that had nothing to do with our forces on us too) and it becomes a ****ing witchhunt. If you want me to point out faults with our military then stop trying to find ways to crucify them at every opportunity.

We invaded Iraq -- if it weren't for us 500,000 dead Iraqi's could still be alive right now and probably under more favorable conditions. (Of course, that depends upon who you ask).

So it was our involvement that directly caused those deaths. No involvement -- no mislead war -- no deaths.

No. Iraqis killing other Iraqis is not our fault just because they wouldn't have the opportunity to do so if the war never happened. Shut the **** up.

Was your question about technology or excessive force?

Neither.

I suspected as much; you knew they're ethics where questionable and you knew they were not apart of some nice little imaginary team of soldiers who're assigned to kill dogs with diseases. You also knew that primarly it was wrong.

I also got you to admit, like I suspected as much, that you didn't care if what they did was wrong or right -- however unfortunate the warning signs maybe that these soldiers might later go on to killing civilians. Infact this team of soldiers that somehow wanders around Iraq just to kill animals is at best, imaginary, or an unofficial cover up to illegal military conduct.

The soldiers are also endangering they're lives by discharging a weapon indiscriminately. The evidence is there: the animal was not diseased or a threat to the marines presence. Now to google something:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=US+Kills+Animals+to+prevent+diseases

Nothing. I hope you care to add a source that backs up your statements.

No, I just don't give a **** about a few dead animals. I've got far more important things to worry about.

 

[Baserape>]

Removing a dangerous dog is one thing but using them as target practice is another! No wonder the allies have lost the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. The dickheads can't even make a clean kill!

;(

 

[RidleyRockets]

Is shooting dogs cruel? Yes.
Are a few dead dogs that important while looking at the mess in Iraq as a whole? No.

It's still not nice though.

 

[CptStern]

The only way to avoid that is to avoid war.
I'm not sure why you can't put two and two together and realise that ordinary people often still in their teenage years being put in the position of shooting, stabbing, kicking and punching complete strangers to death and having the same things happen to your closest friends is enough to **** anyone up.

not my ****ing problem, really I dont give 2 shits of whether it's "stressful" or whether they're going "crazy" that's THEIR responsibility, not mine, yours, iraqis or anyone else

saying they're in a stressful situation does absolutely nothing and really too ****ing bad, they shouldnt have been in there to begin with, they should clean up their problem before it becomes everyones problem, whitewashing the problem or using "stress" as an excuse isnt acceptable and anyone even remotely intelligent wouldnt be satisfied with that answer


anyways animals are killed during war, intentionally and otherwise, but to say "it's just war" is indicative of the apathetic attitudes that put western troops in there in the first place ..if more people actually gave a shit this wouldnt have been a problem

 

[repiV]

not my ****ing problem, really I dont give 2 shits of whether it's "stressful" or whether they're going "crazy" that's THEIR responsibility, not mine, yours, iraqis or anyone else

saying they're in a stressful situation does absolutely nothing and really too ****ing bad, they shouldnt have been in there to begin with, they should clean up their problem before it becomes everyones problem, whitewashing the problem or using "stress" as an excuse isnt acceptable and anyone even remotely intelligent wouldnt be satisfied with that answer

Anyone even remotely intelligent wouldn't write PTSD off as mere "stress". It's one of the most destructive psychological disorders there is.

 

[CptStern]

and? again not my problem


look when the Hadditha massacre made it's way onto the headlines of western media every single goddam story had a footnote that said "we have to understand they're under a lot of stress" ..no, we dont have to understand anything, that DOEWSNT EXCUSE ANYTHING

 

[repiV]

and? again not my problem

And? You're acting like an ignorant tool.

look when the Hadditha massacre made it's way onto the headlines of western media every single goddam story had a footnote that said "we have to understand they're under a lot of stress" ..no, we dont have to understand anything, that DOEWSNT EXCUSE ANYTHING

Excusable or not, things like this will always happen in a war situation. That's just ****ing reality. Screeching about it like a whiny teenage girl won't solve anything. It hardly ever happens, which is actually quite impressive.

Not to mention that the supposed reality of the "Haditha massacre" has yet to actually be resolved as fact in a court of law. And gee whiz, we actually HAVE courts of law to deal with such incidents. Unlike our oh-so-noble enemies.

 

[CptStern]

And? You're acting like an ignorant tool.

how so? it's not my responsibility, it's the military's responsibility ..what happens when these people get shipped home? there's already been several incidents

Excusable or not, things like this will always happen in a war situation. That's just ****ing reality. Screeching about it like a whiny teenage girl won't solve anything. It hardly ever happens, which is actually quite impressive.

hardly ever happens? there's tons of stories of western troops involved with muder, rape, torture and acts of sadism that would make most people cringe ..but saying "it's part of war" you whitewash the fact that it even happens by implying that since it's not the norm it's acceptable becomes it comes with the territory, it's not acceptable, the coalition are supposed t be the good guys, the entire reasoning for entering iraq (besides wmd) was for humanitarian reasons ..by denying these sort of events (as the US govt has) they give it legtimacy by turning a blind eye to it

oh and "whining like a girl" is better than sitting on your arse looking at the situation with rose coloured glasses ..there will come some point where you wont be able to deny reality

 

[repiV]

how so? it's not my responsibility, it's the military's responsibility ..what happens when these people get shipped home? there's already been several incidents

Yes, obviously. As I pointed out previously, three times as many Vietnam veterans committed suicide as died during the war itself.
The majority of Falklands veterans who fought on the ground have failed to lead normal, productive lives since. That month of carnage stayed with them forever, and affected everything in their lives.

hardly ever happens? there's tons of stories of western troops involved with muder, rape, torture and acts of sadism that would make most people cringe ..but saying "it's part of war" you whitewash the fact that it even happens by implying that since it's not the norm it's acceptable becomes it comes with the territory, it's not acceptable, the coalition are supposed t be the good guys, the entire reasoning for entering iraq (besides wmd) was for humanitarian reasons ..by denying these sort of events (as the US govt has) they give it legtimacy by turning a blind eye to it

Define "tons". It's a meaningless term. Certainly, virtually non-existent compared to the daily acts of murder, rape, torture and sadism committed by our enemies. Why don't you complain about them for a change?
Nobody is "the good guys" in war. The only way to win a war is to be more ruthless and barbaric than your enemies, and the reason we're losing this one is because our strategies have been nowhere near ruthless or barbaric enough. That's the most naive ****ing thing that's been posted in this whole entire thread.

oh and "whining like a girl" is better than sitting on your arse looking at the situation with rose coloured glasses ..there will come some point where you wont be able to deny reality

Rose tinted glasses? Good one...
The reality is that war makes ordinary people go clinically insane. Insanity is a defence in law due to the fact that you are not entirely responsible for your actions, so why the **** are you so keen to string up people who might very well be insane, brushing off any such suggestion as "excuses"?
To add insult to injury, you never even so much as pass a comment when our enemies use their rational minds to stage the wholescale slaughter of innocents on a regular basis to further their aims. You also generalise your viewpoints to the entire US military, which is quite ironic for someone who throws the "prejudice" and "ignorance" card around so often.
You clearly have no understanding of war or PTSD, so you shouldn't even be commenting on the issue. Certainly not with the level of arrogance you're displaying.

 

[CptStern]

Yes, obviously. As I pointed out previously, three times as many Vietnam veterans committed suicide as died during the war itself.

yes however how many troops were deployed in vietnam as opposed to Iraq? 750,000 vs 70,000 from the onset ..so put into context that number could be meaningless

Define "tons". It's a meaningless term. Certainly, virtually non-existent compared to the daily acts of murder, rape, torture and sadism committed by our enemies.

the majority of deaths in iraq are caused by coalition forces, mostly bombing
http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/images/journals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf

Why don't you complain about them for a change?

wouldnt have been a problem if the US hadnt invaded under false pretenses ..and what's to complain about? they're terrorists, murderers and madmen, it's a given that they'll act like evil bastards because that's WHAT THEY DO, the coalition are supposed to be the good guys ..now as to the flipside; why do you always defend the coalition and never condemn soldiers caught commiting acts of barbarity?

Nobody is "the good guys" in war. The only way to win a war is to be more ruthless and barbaric than your enemies, and the reason we're losing this one is because our strategies have been nowhere near ruthless or barbaric enough. That's the most naive ****ing thing that's been posted in this whole entire thread.

no, you are losing this "war" because you created it and now it's out of control

Rose tinted glasses? Good one...

what? you've never heard that expression? it's a title of one my fave songs by Blue Rodeo

The reality is that war makes ordinary people go clinically insane.

bullocks, if that were true the mental healthcare would break under the weight of so many new patients. In fact the number is only 10% and the most common symptom is "nightmares, flashbacks" ..ever stop to consider that it may be the training, the attitudes of soldiers themselves that might be just as important a factor? as of 2006 over 80% of american soldiers stationed in and around baghdad thought saddam was responsible for 9/11? that's gotta make for a lot of people looking for payback

Insanity is a defence in law due to the fact that you are not entirely responsible for your actions, so why the **** are you so keen to string up people who might very well be insane, brushing off any such suggestion as "excuses"?

what are you kidding me? would you have agreed on a lesser sentence for say Jeffery Dahmer because he was insane? I'd have thought you of all people would believe in the punishment fitting the crime.

To add insult to injury, you never even so much as pass a comment when our enemies use their rational minds to stage the wholescale slaughter of innocents on a regular basis to further their aims.

why must I make it a point of pointing out the obvious? terrorists are just that: terrorists and with that label comes a certain understanding of what they are capable of, why must I regurgitate the morbidly obvious?

You also generalise your viewpoints to the entire US military, which is quite ironic for someone who throws the "prejudice" and "ignorance" card around so often.

you're trying to steer this back towards me by undermining my intergrity thereby deflating my point ..anyways as "generalising" I think you're wrong, I consistently make it a point of identifying who are the perpetrators in specific situations ..most happen to be politicians rather than soldiers but when it does involve soldiers I try to be as specific as possible

You clearly have no understanding of war or PTSD, so you shouldn't even be commenting on the issue.

I've worked in mental healthcare for years dont assume you know anything about me, I'm very familiar with as many of the people served by the organisations I've worked for suffered from a variety of healthcare issues including ptsd stemming from physical/emotional and sexual abuse

but I'll play your little game: and you do?

Certainly not with the level of arrogance you're displaying.

give me a break repiv, attack the message not the messenger

 

[PortalStormzzzz]

Iraq is a shit hole. We went in for oil and money, and their too afraid to admit it. The only way it will end is with more death. Lousy Globalists.

 

[repiV]

yes however how many troops were deployed in vietnam as opposed to Iraq? 750,000 vs 70,000 from the onset ..so put into context that number could be meaningless

What on earth does that have to do with anything? "Three times as many" is a relative, not an absolute.

the majority of deaths in iraq are caused by coalition forces, mostly bombing
http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/images/journals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf

And it actually surprises you that aerial attacks cause the most damage?

wouldnt have been a problem if the US hadnt invaded under false pretenses ..and what's to complain about? they're terrorists, murderers and madmen, it's a given that they'll act like evil bastards because that's WHAT THEY DO, the coalition are supposed to be the good guys ..now as to the flipside; why do you always defend the coalition and never condemn soldiers caught commiting acts of barbarity?

Why are we supposed to be the good guys? Just because PR people present it like that as they know people like you will swallow it doesn't make it so.
We're out for our own interests just like every other country on the planet. We just happen to be a whole lot more civilised than our current enemies, it doesn't make war any less of an ugly business and it doesn't give us any kind of obligation to "play nice" either.
In answer to your question, maybe because I'm sick of all the one-sided, anti-American, anti-Western, anti-military, pro-Islam, pro-jihad bollocks that's forever clogging up these boards?
I haven't actually expressed an opinion one way or another for that matter, I'm just stemming the tide of reverse bigotry.

no, you are losing this "war" because you created it and now it's out of control

It's out of control because we let it get out of control. We've been fighting half a war all along, in part to appease people like yourself - well, maybe that's a little unfair, but people who occupy your camp anyway - who simply can't handle the reality of warfare.
We don't seek out and destroy the terrorist factions, we just sit idly by and let them pick us off and tear Iraq apart. We could have brought the country under our total control in a year or less, and kept it that way, if we really wanted to.

what? you've never heard that expression? it's a title of one my fave songs by Blue Rodeo

Yes, I've heard it. It's just ridiculous to apply the term to me - I'm the one pointing out that the world isn't a nice happy place here, ffs. I'm also the only person who hasn't taken a stance either way on what should happen to these marines.

bullocks, if that were true the mental healthcare would break under the weight of so many new patients. In fact the number is only 10% and the most common symptom is "nightmares, flashbacks" ..ever stop to consider that it may be the training, the attitudes of soldiers themselves that might be just as important a factor? as of 2006 over 80% of american soldiers stationed in and around baghdad thought saddam was responsible for 9/11? that's gotta make for a lot of people looking for payback

How can it be only 10%, when nearly 200,000 Vietnam veterans committed suicide after the war? Three times as many as were killed during it.
That's clearly utter nonsense.
Not to mention I recall from a couple of years back that 69% of military personnel (not just front-line infantry) stationed in Iraq and 40-something% of those based in Afghanistan had experienced symptoms of PTSD. And that's from a relatively light combat environment completely incomparable to something like Vietnam, Korea, the Falklands or WW2. It doesn't include the late bloomers, either.
You must have pulled the 10% out of your arse...

what are you kidding me? would you have agreed on a lesser sentence for say Jeffery Dahmer because he was insane? I'd have thought you of all people would believe in the punishment fitting the crime.

I do. It doesn't change the fact that you can be absolved partially or completely of wrongdoing in a court of law based on the state of your mental health.
I'd also imagine you'd be the first one on here complaining if they sentenced a man with the mental age of an eight year old to death for murder.

why must I make it a point of pointing out the obvious? terrorists are just that: terrorists and with that label comes a certain understanding of what they are capable of, why must I regurgitate the morbidly obvious?

Because you always make it sound like the US and the UK are responsible for absolutely everything that's wrong with the world, and I'm sick of listening to it?

you're trying to steer this back towards me by undermining my intergrity thereby deflating my point ..anyways as "generalising" I think you're wrong, I consistently make it a point of identifying who are the perpetrators in specific situations ..most happen to be politicians rather than soldiers but when it does involve soldiers I try to be as specific as possible

Yet every thread is you trying to find some dirt on either the US, the UK or Christianity. It's never any deeper, more intelligent or more objective than that. You're just so determined to pursue your vendetta against those three things, and you're always so sure that you're right - yet you don't even touch on any point unless it implicates either the US, the UK or Christianity in some wrongdoing. It's incredibly tedious.

I've worked in mental healthcare for years dont assume you know anything about me, I'm very familiar with as many of the people served by the organisations I've worked for suffered from a variety of healthcare issues including ptsd stemming from physical/emotional and sexual abuse

Obviously didn't give you much of an insight into the plight of the soldier, then.

but I'll play your little game: and you do?

I at least make an effort to understand the depth of the situation. To you it's childishly simplistic.

give me a break repiv, attack the message not the messenger

You're the one who said that only stupid people could possibly disagree with you.

 

[BakerBride]

Sadistic creeps!

If the dogs were rabid, perhaps it would be acceptable BUT a trained soldier would not have to shoot more than once to disable the dog. It is very obvious to me that the soldier had a clear shot at the dog as he did hit it the first time. But seeing that he did not kill or disable the dog the first time he shot it, it would seem to me that the soldier was being cruel in continuing to shoot TEN additional times. And I counted at least two shots AFTER the dog was DOWN. Also, if you actually listen to the soldiers talking at the beginning, you'll hear one say "Can I shoot too?" and then someone else says "No, hold on" Anyone who says this isn't sadistic is full of crap!

 

[predatowned]

IMO, people seem to put America up on a higher pedestal for some reason. when people do that, it usually leads to disappointment. "o america liberates countries with the help of their close allies all the time, I guess they dont do this kind of stuff "they're great people". Yeah, whatever, go hang yourself for thinking that. We have our own "terrorists" and thats street gangs, and crazy ****s shooting up schools, malls and God knows what else. We can't even control our own terrorists.

from the way people and media talk its like "theres human beings........THEN THERES AMERICANS!"... wtf it's annoying. america isnt so great, and this just shows we're no better than any enemy america has had over the time. STFU omg.

If the video was titled "UK Soldiers shoot dog for no reason" the video wouldn't get any attention. People are obsessed with america. Either way, it pisses me off to see this kind of stuff. I don't give a **** if people get shot up, raped, murdered, chopped up ect in videos, but leave animals out u ****ing tards. They dont deserve it. *end rant* I doubt this turned out exactly how i meant for it to come out, but oh well. hopefully my point will be understood. lol

Basically, i'm sick that im an american. we need more reality slapped into our heads by having a few more plans crashing into buildings, I think. *cough*

 

[Nemesis6]

Basically, i'm sick that im an american. we need more reality slapped into our heads by having a few more plans crashing into buildings, I think. *cough*

You sound like this guy on Danish TV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeJgY81a-1c

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Basically, i'm sick that im an american.

I actually like who I'am -- despite our misgivings.

 

[Solaris]

"Why are we supposed to be the good guys?"
Because we have a moral obligation to help our fellow human beings.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

Because you always make it sound like the US and the UK are responsible for absolutely everything that's wrong with the world, and I'm sick of listening to it?

No, it's just that no one in those countries "gives a shit". Right Stern??

 

[mastapenguin]

Heh, you could write a book about how animal cruelty incites more rage than cruelty to other people.

But anyway, back on topic.


Several people have mentioned that these random acts of violence are largely excusable because said soldiers are "under a lot of stress". Well, I bet the crazies involved in school shootings were "under a lot of stress" too. Does that excuse them?

The US entered the war on the premise that we were liberating the Iraqi people from the oppression Saddam Hussein. This implies that we are there to defend Iraqi civilians, not shooting them and their dogs.

Thing is, you really can't have any sort of combat without this kind of shit going on. And it takes a whole lot of resources punish the perpetrators, resources better spent in winning the war. Thats why the Geneva convention really focuses on things committed by officers and leaders. It is impossible to find and punish every soldier who commits a war crime in a battlefield. This is something professional soldiers have known for ages, but the public only found out recently when fast video media became publicly available.

But then, what can we do about it? The longer a fight like this goes on, the more atrocities are committed by lowly grunts. At best, us civilians can only find ways to stop the fighting as quickly as possible. And we really only have 3 options to that end.
1. The government can reinstate rationing, raise taxes and sell war bonds, giving the military a huge amount of resources to crush enemy forces as quickly as possible.
2. Drop the Bomb on anything that isn't an oil well.
3. Leave.

I'll give you a couple hints: Republicans would only raise taxes (which mostly affects REALLY REALLY rich people) if the Democrats get a filibuster proof majority in the House and Senate. And dropping the bomb would either have someone drop the bomb on us, or lead to oil sanctions that would turn this place into a third-world country within a decade.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Thing is, you really can't have any sort of combat without this kind of shit going on.

... and thats one of the excuses.

 

[highlander]

Sick ****s laughing at killing the dog.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a4b_1198349822

More marines -- this time shrieking at EOD to blow up a dog.

 

[Takekaze]

Ok, one dog... and they drop him within what? 2 or 3 seconds? That's "animal cruelty"? Blowing one or two dogs up (which is a rather fast death) is "animal cruelty"?

Ever wondered where all the turkeys for Thanksgiving come from and how they are treated and killed? Dropping a dog with an assault rifle doesn't even begin to compare. Spanish bullfight anyone?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Ok, one dog... and they drop him within what? 2 or 3 seconds? That's "animal cruelty"? Blowing one or two dogs up (which is a rather fast death) is "animal cruelty"?

So by that definition, I could kill anything I want as long as its death is quick and painless?

Explain you're position a bit more -- I'm having a wee bit of trouble understanding it.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Go Vegan.

Tell others why you did it.

 

[Raptor_Jesus]

ugh....

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Sadistic ****s shouldn't be allowed to use a firearm, but you know this is exactly what they are trained to do by sadistic **** superiors.

 

[Kadayi]

Ok, one dog... and they drop him within what? 2 or 3 seconds? That's "animal cruelty"? Blowing one or two dogs up (which is a rather fast death) is "animal cruelty"?

Ever wondered where all the turkeys for Thanksgiving come from and how they are treated and killed? Dropping a dog with an assault rifle doesn't even begin to compare. Spanish bullfight anyone?

So what's next, only one rape? "She's had kids with her, so she's clearly had cock before, it'll only took a few seconds, she'll get over it ..what's wrong with that?" :|

 

[Lamarrfz]

I do not deem what those people did as appropriate.

That said, I found the videos to be quite funny.