US military investigating allegations US soldiers executed iraqi civilians

[Lemonking]

I don't care, even if what you said is true it doesn't make it right to shoot dead two children. It's still f*****g disgusting, and completely inexcusable. Children were executed by US forces, theres no possible situation in which that can be made any less horrific.

yet, you say its okay for Palastians 2 blow up school buses, or 2 kill US Soldiers,that doesnt make much sence :rolling:




edit:Im not excusing the horrible,horrible thing those grunts did.Just pointig out a few thing 2 Solaris

 

[Llama]

oh my god. All I am saying is that YOU DO NOT HAVE THE FULL STORY, DONT JUMP TO STUPID CONCLUSIONS.

This is why I hate the politics forum; people jump to broad, biased conclusions instantly.

You just called all american soldiers crazy. Well, CONGRATULATIONS, I know someone who has a brother in Iraq right now and you need to shut the **** up and go take you and your stupid conclusions to hell.

Because oftentimes, you dont have the full story. YES, this is wrong. YES, this is probobly a slaughter of some sort. NO, you shouldn't jump to biased conclusions based on this one thing posted by a liberal member of this board. NO, you shouldn't believe everything you read.

AGAIN, if ANYONE has this story, FROM THE SOLDIERS PERSPECTIVE, NOT THE SLANTING MEDIA'S PERPECTIVE, I would like to read it.

What the hell are you talking about? THE MILITARY CONCLUDED THAT WAS THE CASE. The military is made of soldeirs, thats why its the MILITARY
. Stern said nothing like that. Your ideas and suggests are pathetic, there is no way that killing so many civilians (all with headshots) could be anyway less than murder.

Also, why, just because a Liberal post it, mean people jump to conclusions about it? Are you saying that if a conservative posted it no one would jump so such a conclusion? Sorry, but murder is murder and you cant jump to conclusions about murder. Just because someone who is "Liberal" posted it doesnt make any difference (as you seemed to note when you commented on it)

The SLANTING MEDIA? How can you slant a story involving innocent women and children being Handcuffed and shot through the head. Its fairly grim anyway.

 

[JNightshade]

It's just ****ing sick. It's true, this is war- but even in war, murder is murder.

 

[Solaris]

yet, you say its okay for Palastians 2 blow up school buses, or 2 kill US Soldiers,that doesnt make much sence :rolling:

My f*****g god. Sorry for swearing but it's just pissing me off. I have to say it in big bold letters, and I have, I bet I could dig up at least 20 posts by me saying "IT IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE TO KILL CIVILLIANS" Or something similar. I have said it in Big Bold Letters size 8, I have repeated it over and over again.
Show me where I have said it's OK for them to blow up school buses, or quite frankly get the f**k out. You can't go around accusing people of supporting blowing up school buses, it's just f****g horrific.

And theres a difference between shooting an enemy soldier in a time of war, whilst defending your country and handcuffing 15 people including men, women and children and executing each and every one of them, don't try and make a comparrison, one is sad and the other is absolutely horrific and damn right evil.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

"IT IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE TO KILL CIVILLIANS"

In all the posts I've seen, you always return justify the killing of Israeli civilians. If you support Hamas, then you support the killing of civilians.

Why, have you not seen this? Has anyone for that matter?

Hamas Video:
We will drink the blood of the Jews! Half a month after its electoral victory, a Hamas website presented the parting video messages of two Hamas suicide terrorists. One message was for Jews, whose blood Hamas promises to drink until Jews "leave the Muslim countries," and the second to a mother, as she helps dress her son for battle prior to his suicide terror mission.

www.pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_Hamas_suicide.asx

Hamas Video:
More terror; Israel will be destroyed
In October 2005, Hamas placed on one of its websites a half-hour video that can only be seen as part of its election campaign. The video reviews what its makers see as recent Hamas successes as well as its plans for the future. The video features military-style training for Hamas terrorists and explicit encouragement of suicide terrorists and their mothers. The well-publicized Hamas plan to destroy Israel is reiterated, as are Hamas plans to remain the "resistance" (the Palestinian euphemism for terror) group of choice for all Palestinian and jihad terrorists.

The video appeared on the Hamas site at almost the same time that the US State Department made clear that it would make no attempt to block Hamas from participating in the January 25, 2006 Palestinian parliamentary elections. The EU and UN also agreed that Hamas, which appears on official EU and US lists of terrorist organizations, could participate in the elections.

The video includes the following:

Scenes of Hamas terrorists in military-style training
The opinion that including female suicide terrorists in Hamas ranks has led to Palestinian mothers being more willing to encourage their sons to become suicide terrorists
The promotion of Shahada (death for Allah) as better than life (a message parallel to that of the Palestinian Authority, as can be seen here
A refusal to disarm, despite running in parliamentary elections
The hope that Hamas will continue to be "a home for all Palestinian and jihad fighters"
The opinion (also parallel to that of the PA) that the recent voluntary Israeli withdrawal from Gaza is the first step in the destruction of Israel
Finally, the promise of more terrorism, as Hamas' military commander promises to Israelis, "we will make all of Palestine [i.e. Israel] a hell for you"
Palestinian Media Watch has added a segment of an August 2005 broadcast by Muhammad Deif, commander of Al-Qassam Brigades, the terrorist wing of Hamas (also posted on the Hamas website), in which he reasserts the Hamas goal to "liberate" the Israeli cities of Jerusalem, Safed, Haifa, Jaffa and others.

www.pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_Hamas.asx

 

[Solaris]

Quote me or shut the hell up, I may explain why they do it, and what causes them, but I never said killing school children was OK.

 

[CptStern]

again with the ****ing hamas kerberos? want to actually stay on topic and address the fact that US soldiers executed women and children, or will you just ignore it like you do every other atrocity?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Quote me or shut the hell up

Quote you? Oh you know its what I'm good for:

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Solaris! The Palestinian terror supporter!

I apporve of the voting of Hamas.

There not great, but maybe they'll get some organised resistance going.

That was post number 28, in this thread, http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99937 "Hamas wins Palestinian Election"

Now, I've already said my bit on the Hamas, if you want to continue this further, I EASILY could.

 

[Solaris]

Quote you? Oh you know its what I'm good for:

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Solaris! The Palestinian terror supporter!



That was post number 28, in this thread, http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99937 "Hamas wins Palestinian Election"

Now, I've already said my bit on the Hamas, if you want to continue this further, I EASILY could.

I also said in that thread:

Anger driven by sadness leads people to do things that they wouldn't dream of doing. Sure there not justified to kill civillians, but if Isreal didn't f**k up there lives and kill there parents/children/lovers then they wouldnt do it.

I don't condone nor support the actions of Hamas, but I can understand and to some extent sympathise with the reasons behind them.

Killing of civillians is always wrong.

It isreal didn't create so much anger theese Nutjobs[hamas] wouldn't have much support.

I strongly oppose the killing of Isreali citizens

All in the same thread, posted by me.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Sure there not justified to kill civillians, but if Isreal didn't f**k up there lives and kill there parents/children/lovers then they wouldnt do it.

In that quote you bolded ... "Sure, there not justified to kill civilians."

In that quote, I'm bolding ...

Sure there not justified to kill civillians, but if Isreal didn't f**k up there lives and kill there parents/children/lovers then they wouldnt do it.

In this following quote, you bolded:

I don't condone nor support the actions of Hamas, but I can understand and to some extent sympathise with the reasons behind them.

But then you also said,

I apporve of the voting of Hamas.

There not great, but maybe they'll get some organised resistance going.

.

Oh needless to say, I'm going to bold what you did not in this post, take a look at it here ...

I don't condone nor support the actions of Hamas, but I can understand and to some extent sympathise with the reasons behind them.

All in the same thread, posted by you.

 

[Solaris]

And where does any of that suggest that I think bombing children is OK?

 

[Flyingdebris]

Welcome to the wonderful world of the actions of a few ****ing things up for everyone else. I doubt that the US military is full of degenerates that intentionally kill families and civvies. For the most part, the people going in there are professionals or college age kids, not psychopaths. In this case however some asswipes snapped and should be investgated/prosecuted. But their actions are not representative of the entire military.

Besides, its easy to critisize the U.S., but it is my understanding that most militaries have their own scumbags. Recent one i can remember is when a detachment of French soldiers on the ivory coast opened fire on a peaceful protest around this time last year. I do not think that their actions represent all of france's military however.

 

[CptStern]

they fired into the air ..also I would completely agree with you if this were the only case ..but there are literally hundreds of cases ...now please understand that I'm not saying that all american soldiers are capable of atrocities but you have to admit that when 85% of soldiers in iraq believe iraq was behind 9/11 revenge has to fit in there somewhere for some people:

"There's a picture of the World Trade Centre hanging up by my bed and I keep one in my flak jacket. Every time I feel sorry for these people I look at that. I think, 'They hit us at home and, now, it's our turn.' I don't want to say payback but, you know, it's pretty much payback."


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnew...ADMIT-SHOOTING-IRAQI-CIVILIANS-name_page.html

 

[kirovman]

"There's a picture of the World Trade Centre hanging up by my bed and I keep one in my flak jacket. Every time I feel sorry for these people I look at that. I think, 'They hit us at home and, now, it's our turn.' I don't want to say payback but, you know, it's pretty much payback."

Bloody hell. The war in Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11 (other than it's a convieniant excuse) and just as bad an excuse as WMD.

 

[CptStern]

heh read the rest of the article ..it gets far worse

 

[Solaris]

Spicy lemom. Withdraw or backup your statement or never post here again, you can't just jump into threads say someone thinks killing children is okay and then not reply when you get wtfpwnt.

 

[jverne]

Spicy lemom. Withdraw or backup your statement or never post here again, you can't just jump into threads say someone thinks killing children is okay and then not reply when you get wtfpwnt.

he's one of those 85% idiots, stern previously mentioned! don't bother too much, it was expected!:dozey:

 

[DeusExMachina]

Spicy isn't in the military...

And he should be banned from the political forums forever :|.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

And where does any of that suggest that I think bombing children is OK?

It's like trying to support NAZI's, but not the holocaust.

You support Hamas, but you don't support they're bombing of civilians?

It's a really retarded cycle, if I may comment on it myself.

 

[Razor]

again with the ****ing hamas kerberos? want to actually stay on topic and address the fact that US soldiers executed women and children, or will you just ignore it like you do every other atrocity?

He is staying on topic when it comes to the discussion as a whole, noting the similarities that some groups of US troops and their actions have in common with the actions of Hamas, a terrorist organisation. Both, from this report, attack unarmed men, women and children.

 

[Razor]

I think the media isnt telling anywhere near what's happening in iraq:

"Sergeant First Class John Meadows summed up the prevailing attitude amongst his colleagues telling the Evening Standard that Iraqi fighters were dressed in civilian clothes.

You can't distinguish between who's trying to kill you and who's not," he said.

Like, the only way to get through s*** like that was to concentrate on getting through it by killing as many people as you can, people you know are trying to kill you. Killing them first and getting home.

There was no dilemma when it came to shooting people who were not in uniform, I just pulled the trigger.

It was up close and personal the whole time, there wasn't a big distance. If they were there, they were enemy, whether in uniform or not. Some were, some weren't.

Describing the scene during combat Richardson admitted shooting injured soldiers and leaving them to die.

He said: "S***, I didn't help any of them. I wouldn't help the f******. There were some you let die. And there were some you double-tapped.

Making a shooting sign with his hand he went on: "Once you'd reached the objective, and once you'd shot them and you're moving through, anything there, you shoot again. You didn't want any prisoners of war. You hate them so bad while you're fighting, and you're so terrified, you can't really convey the feeling, but you don't want them to live.

There's a picture of the World Trade Centre hanging up by my bed and I keep one in my flak jacket. Every time I feel sorry for these people I look at that. I think, 'They hit us at home and, now, it's our turn.' I don't want to say payback but, you know, it's pretty much payback."



you wont see that on CNN


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnew...ADMIT-SHOOTING-IRAQI-CIVILIANS-name_page.html


here's an example video

When you've been through the stress of such things and seen and witnessed such horrors, some of that can be justified to some people. But what the soldier is trying to say is that insurgents and terrorists don't wear uniforms so they have to make judgements very quickly of who to shoot and when you're surrounded by a crowd of people trying to shoot at you and none of them are in uniform and are extremely stressed and exhausted, mistakes are going to be made. But that doesn't justify killing a wounded soldier who is not trying to kill you or executing innocent men, women and children who clearly aren't armed.

 

[CptStern]

yes but he's saying it doesnt matter if the people he kills are innocent or not ..it's justified because in his mind he thinks it's payback for 9/11. In other words he doesnt distinguish between good iraqis and bad iraqis because they're all responsible for 9/11 ..he is dehumanizing them, therefore it becomes fareasier to commit unspeakable acts against women and children

 

[Some_God]

It's sad, yes, but war is war and there are always civilian casualties, intentional or not. Did anyone get repremanded for Dresden? Are the insurgent death squads being put in front of a firing line? Are Hamas operative being questioned by a military judge? We are lucky in the sense that we are a country that has military oversight and can be open to the public with this type of information.

Besides, if we covered it up, we'd be giving more ammunition to the anti-Americans.

he is dehumanizing them, therefore it becomes fareasier to commit unspeakable acts against women and children

In war you have to dehumanize to function correctly as a soldier; there is no logic in war.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Anything this damn country does gives anti-Americans more ammunition. Even doing something good will be twisted so it seems negative. We'll probably be like this until Bush has his ass kicked out in '08.

 

[CptStern]

It's sad, yes, but war is war and there are always civilian casualties, intentional or not. Did anyone get repremanded for Dresden? Are the insurgent death squads being put in front of a firing line? Are Hamas operative being questioned by a military judge? We are lucky in the sense that we are a country that has military oversight and can be open to the public with this type of information.

Besides, if we covered it up, we'd be giving more ammunition to the anti-Americans.



In war you have to dehumanize to function correctly as a soldier; there is no logic in war.

apologist

 

[Lemonking]

Spicy isn't in the military...

And he should be banned from the political forums forever :|.

stfu,do you actually say anything except attack me in threads?all you is talk crap,and I frankly dont give a rats ass what you ****ing think about me,go live your sucky life and stfu.

 

[Some_God]

apologist

Unlike some people, I support my country's military and give soldiers the benefit of the doubt.


I seem to recall you telling me not to generalise when I called you a radical socialist.:imu:

 

[Rupertvdb]

stick with the topic, jesus.

I don't get how the 9/11 stuff appeared because I haven't read all the posts.I would say that it seems that if you are arguing that the soldiers' actions were on account of 9/11 then yur probably incredibly far off the mark with its relevance. Bt I could have completely misread what is being said, so smack me.

Anyways, this stuff is getting out of hand. The American Army is not capable of doing anything in such a weak position. In the newspapers they are revealing the amount of money that the Army gives to the relatives of the dead per family member lost. How the hell can they function with the minute amount of local support that their presence is generating, with the full disgraceful details of it imprinted everywhere. The fact is that the country is in absolute collapse, civil war is ourcurring at this very moment. Something like 3 people die, every hour, in Baghdad.
But to focus on the actual incident for a second, it seems insane that these soldiers can commit this act, but then we should hope that this is simpy a mistake somewhere in the system. How can this happen? These are people that represent our military and are supposed to be members of our society. It is not a positive inditement of our way of life when people see our people behave in these atrocious ways if these are the people we send to free nations and make the world a safer place for everyone.
We should also consider that maybe these people are just like us, and not crazed marginals. We are supposed to generate troops that are capable and professional, we can all agree on that. But maybe they are that profesional and the conditions are so terrible out there that events like this can occur. Perhaps it is so dehumanising that even strong brave troops become like this.
I think that the answer is somewhere in the middle of all of these things. It seems to me that these people who act in these horrific ways are somewhat crazed by their backgrounds which is to be expected with the number of troops present. The numbers are huge and there are bound to be some crazies; especially in the presence of all those guns. And I just hope that these people wouldn't commit these acts in their own countries if they were civilian. The place is a hellhole; Baghdad is the most dangerous city in the world.

Anyways, i'm getting tired. Feel free to rip me a new one and i'll retract it all.

 

[CptStern]

Unlike some people, I support my country's military and give soldiers the benefit of the doubt.


I seem to recall you telling me not to generalise when I called you a radical socialist.:imu:

yet if the same set of circumstances were applied to insurgents/terrorists you'd be quick to condemn them. Surely some part of you must be outraged at the thought of the cold blooded murder of a 6 month old baby committed in your name

"'The American forces gathered the family members in one room and executed 11 persons, including five children, four women and two men,' the report said. 'Then they bombed the house, burned three vehicles and killed their animals.'

"The report identified the dead by name, giving their ages. The two men killed were 22 and 28. Of the women, one was 22, another was 23, a third was 30 and the fourth was 75. Two of the children were 5 years old, two were 3, and the fifth was 6 months old

hospital autopsies "revealed that all the victims had bullet shots in the head and all bodies were handcuffed"."

 

[Rupertvdb]

Oh hell yeah. I am disgusted that these sick bastards can actually be breathing; I just think that we should learn from the amount of incidents like this that are taking place. I was somehow turning this into an argument for withdrawing the troops. I realise that people shall start screaming about how unstable it would make everything, but for the love of God, what do you think it is?

 

[CptStern]

hehe sorry my post was meant for some_god ..I didnt edit my post to include his quote fast enough

 

[Razor]

yes but he's saying it doesnt matter if the people he kills are innocent or not ..it's justified because in his mind he thinks it's payback for 9/11. In other words he doesnt distinguish between good iraqis and bad iraqis because they're all responsible for 9/11 ..he is dehumanizing them, therefore it becomes fareasier to commit unspeakable acts against women and children

But don't Hamas also not care about who they kill and blame all Jews for them losing their home land so bomb anyone indiscriminately. Anyone who supports Hamas are evil bad people just like anyone who supports the US killing Iraqi civilians. The difference is though, America actually tries to aim at enemy fighters most of the time.

 

[CptStern]

But don't Hamas also not care about who they kill and blame all Jews for them losing their home land so bomb anyone indiscriminately.

but didnt hitler kill jews and didnt genghis khan rape and pillage and didnt a caesar get stabbed by a bunch of guys in robes? ...what does that have to do with anything? how does the actions of hamas exonerate that american soldier?

Anyone who supports Hamas are evil bad people just like anyone who supports the US killing Iraqi civilians. The difference is though, America actually tries to aim at enemy fighters most of the time.

important part of your statement: "most of the time"


still fail to see how anyone could compare the two

 

[Solaris]

stfu,do you actually say anything except attack me in threads?all you is talk crap,and I frankly dont give a rats ass what you ****ing think about me,go live your sucky life and stfu.

You STFU you came in here and said I think it is okay to bomb ****ing school children. Back it up or **** off.

 

[Llama]

I dont he did say that, he edited his post, and he wasnt talking to you :|

(I think, dont quote me on that)

 

[Solaris]

I dont he did say that, he edited his post, and he wasnt talking to you :|

(I think, dont quote me on that)

Nope he quoted me and then said

"yet, you say its okay for Palastians 2 blow up school buses, or 2 kill US Soldiers,that doesnt make much sence :rolling:"


Spicy King, withdraw that or back it up.

 

[CptStern]

he did say it ..but just let it go as his opinion doesnt count for much around here.

 

[Llama]

yeah I can live with that.

@ Solaris: I stand corrected, you're right

 

[Razor]

but didnt hitler kill jews and didnt genghis khan rape and pillage and didnt a caesar get stabbed by a bunch of guys in robes? ...what does that have to do with anything? how does the actions of hamas exonerate that american soldier?



important part of your statement: "most of the time"


still fail to see how anyone could compare the two

I think his argument was that the dude he was arguing with had supported Hamas, an evil terrorist organisation who murder innocent people, but condoned US troops for murdering innocent people...i don't know, something like that.

 

[CptStern]

well now I'm sorta lost