US national draft next year?

[CptStern]

I find your lack of faith in the democratic process troubling.

#1. There will not be a draft
#2. If there was a draft, I would not flee to Canada like some pussy. I would fight for my country.

even if the cause is unjust? you'd be a pussy for not standing up for your ideals

 

[aeroripper]

Are you seriously telling me that people would be avoiding service due to their beliefs? HA! That may be a small part, but the main reason is they have lived pampered lives and they don't want to make a sacrifice and put themselves in danger for the country that has provided so much for them.

I find the very idea insulting to those who have risked their lives over the decades for the life we live now.

overgeneralization, also the idea is possible that they fought and died because they were forced to, not because they agreed with what they were fighting for.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Boy, you republicans sure are obsessed with a man who hasn't been in charge in four year.

He's like a stain that you hope to get rid of, but no matter how much detergent you put on it, it keeps coming back.

You are right, I agree. There are more pressing issues that this campaign should be about than war records.

Then why is it Kerry's main campaign focus? Hmm probably because he is unwilling to discuss the issues because of his "stellar" Senate service.

 

[Letters]

No draft is going to happen...


That would suck, though, if it did... I'd go, but I'd just be trying not get shot the whole time. :O

 

[seinfeldrules]

even if the cause is unjust? you'd be a pussy for not standing up for your ideals

Your country asked you to fight for it. You are the bigger pussy from running away from a place that has provided you ideals and potential unlike any other place in the world.

I'd just be trying not get shot the whole time.

Thats the general idea, shoot them before they can shoot you back :naughty: :sniper:

 

[ShadowFox]

Then by all means, do leave. I have no problems with people who have different opinions on our country, but if you think you can't change it, then leave.

Domestically this country has given you the opportunity to succeed. Whether you do or not is your business. Welfare has been in the process of being phased out for the past 20 years according to people like you. The fact is, welfare is an outdated idea. It was mean't to help folks suffering from the depression. But now it is so abused by the public, that it has really outgrown it's purpose. Social security was also part of the new deal. It is not something that was championed by this nation until it befell hard times.

Your hissyfit about the patriot act is funny. I find the patriot act to be a revolting misnomer. But it has happened in the past. It will be repealed, if that is the desire of the people.

 

[gh0st]

even if the cause is unjust? you'd be a pussy for not standing up for your ideals

i wouldent break the law. id rather be up in canada :smoking:ing too, but i have greater respect for the country than to get up and flee when im needed. lots of people disagreed with vietnam too, and lots of them didnt run. the ones that did ARE pussies. its not my perrogative to determine what is "just" or "unjust" just as it isnt yours.

 

[Korgoth]

He's like a stain that you hope to get rid of, but no matter how much detergent you put on it, it keeps coming back.



Then why is it Kerry's main campaign focus? Hmm probably because he is unwilling to discuss the issues because of his "stellar" Senate service.

gah, don't go down this road again seindfeld, i'm not voting for bush no matter how hard you try and convince me otherwise. I don't care that bush didn't go to vietnam, i don't blame him i wouldn't have gone either. I also don't consider kerry a chump because the medals he won are in "question" by some people, he has more balls than me. for even going. I guess its his main campaign focus because it proves he can lead, he understands war, and he understands the human cost. Thats good enough for me.

 

[ShadowFox]

even if the cause is unjust? you'd be a pussy for not standing up for your ideals

I agree completely. That is not the point. The point is, if there was a more just war than Iraq being fought, people would still dodge a draft.

It is the sad state of America. The majority of the youth just doesn't care.

To elaborate, I have no problem with the small percentage of folks who don't want to fight based on principles. But I would wager that a large number of draft dogers are using principles as a facade because they don't want to abandon their cushy lifestyle.

 

[CptStern]

Your country asked you to fight for it..

let me say it again: even if you felt it was unjust>

You are the bigger pussy from running away from a place that has provided you ideals and potential unlike any other place in the world.

you're a fool for blindly following someone else's ideals

 

[seinfeldrules]

I guess its his main campaign focus because it proves he can lead, he understands war, and he understands the human cost. Thats good enough for me.

Well didnt you just say that a 30 year old war shouldnt be brought up, that the policies and positions should?

 

[Korgoth]

I agree completely. That is not the point. The point is, if there was a more just war than Iraq being fought, people would still dodge a draft.

It is the sad state of America. The majority of the youth just doesn't care.

To elaborate, I have no problem with the small percentage of folks who don't want to fight based on principles. But I would wager that a large number of draft dogers are using principles as a facade because they don't want to abandon their cushy lifestyle.

very true...

 

[seinfeldrules]

you're a fool for blindly following someone else's ideals

I dont blindly follow someone else's ideals. I would have fought under Kerry, Clinton, Carter, etc. I trust the American people to elect someone who can lead them bravely and correctly. I am following the American ideal. These dodgers take all they can from America and then leave when the going gets tough.

 

[Korgoth]

Well didnt you just say that a 30 year old war shouldnt be brought up, that the policies and positions should?

Yes I did, and yes they should, but using your service to prove you have leadership skills when you're running for president, i don't see a problem with that. And his record isn't the only thing he is campaigning on, if you follow his campaign you would know he lays out his plans for the economy/jobs/education/healthcare. Its not the ONLY thing he talks about, and if anything, i'd say the swiftboat vets ar the ones who are driving the issue into the ground, not kerry.

 

[gh0st]

you're a fool for blindly following someone else's ideals

when are you going to understand that it isnt "someone else's" ideals? i see where you're coming from, but i dont see eye to eye with you. i would go to war anywhere int he world, in any capacity i could assist, regardless of the risk, dissent, whatever. im not just saying that either, i really do believe it. im not brainwashed by any administration, i would serve this country in a heartbeat.

 

[seinfeldrules]

And his record isn't the only thing he is campaigning on, if you follow his campaign you would know he lays out his plans for the

Hmm I believe the main point of the DNC was about his military service. I'm sorry, are they sidestepping something? I shouldnt have to search out his positions on Johnkerry.com because he is too busy talking about Vietnam.

 

[aeroripper]

I agree completely. That is not the point. The point is, if there was a more just war than Iraq being fought, people would still dodge a draft.

It is the sad state of America. The majority of the youth just doesn't care.

To elaborate, I have no problem with the small percentage of folks who don't want to fight based on principles. But I would wager that a large number of draft dogers are using principles as a facade because they don't want to abandon their cushy lifestyle.

I also agree.

But i refuse to believe that service to my country requires me to harm people that have done nothing. In fact service to my country for the fact that we think we have the right to give dicators power in the middle east to make lives for the civilians that much harder, but rather to create more turmoial and unrest so they will not have as much power against the US and used for imperialistic gain.

 

[Icarusintel]

I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to fight for their country if the reason is right, and there are plenty of good reasons for fighting in Iraq, because we're not so much fighting the Iraqis anymore so much as we are fighting terrorists, which was our goal in the first place, a war on terror, and now they're all flocking to Iraq

 

[ShadowFox]

And his record isn't the only thing he is campaigning on, if you follow his campaign you would know he lays out his plans for the economy/jobs/education/healthcare. Its not the ONLY thing he talks about, and if anything, i'd say the swiftboat vets ar the ones who are driving the issue into the ground, not kerry.

Sadly, the lack of knowledge about his policies is what is, in my opinion, hurting his numbers. Nobody knows what John Kerry stands for. He uses a lot of general speech, such as, "we need to fix the economy and get americans back into jobs", but he doesn't explain how.

Once or if he explains how, I think his poll numbers will improve.

 

[Korgoth]

Hmm I believe the main point of the DNC was about his military service. I'm sorry, are they sidestepping something? I shouldnt have to search out his positions on Johnkerry.com because he is too busy talking about Vietnam.

http://www.johnkerry.com/index.html

no searching need, its all right there on the side of the page for you to view. I actually don't see but one thing about the vietnam war and thats all the way at the bottom of the page, and its in response to the swift boat vets.

 

[ShadowFox]

If imperialism was the root of the Iraq war, we would have made it a US territory. It isn't imperialism. Call it belligerence, call it ignorance, but imperialism is not correct.

 

[CptStern]

I agree completely. That is not the point. The point is, if there was a more just war than Iraq being fought, people would still dodge a draft.

I agree ...some people dont want to die

It is the sad state of America. The majority of the youth just doesn't care.

hence the 40% voter turnout last time around

To elaborate, I have no problem with the small percentage of folks who don't want to fight based on principles.

it's not small, I bet if there was a draft right now you'd have a whole whack of conscientious objectors

But I would wager that a large number of draft dogers are using principles as a facade because they don't want to abandon their cushy lifestyle.

you say large, I say small ...I've met 2 types of americans (in the context of their opinion on the war) those that would jump at the chance to fight and support the war wholeheartedly, and those that question the motivations behind the war and wouldnt fight(conscientious objectors) ...I havent met any americans who support the war but wouldnt fight because of selfishness

admittedly this is only my impression from my limited exposure to americans

 

[seinfeldrules]

no searching need, its all right there on the side of the page for you to view. I actually don't see but one thing about the vietnam war and thats all the way at the bottom of the page, and its in response to the swift boat vets.

My point exactly. Why should America need to search this out online, he should have been laying it out all along, but he has spent all his time on Vietnam.

 

[CptStern]

I dont blindly follow someone else's ideals. I would have fought under Kerry, Clinton, Carter, etc. I trust the American people to elect someone who can lead them bravely and correctly.

but only 40 % voted

I am following the American ideal.

an ideal? it sounds again like faith

 

[Korgoth]

My point exactly. Why should America need to search this out online, he should have been laying it out all along, but he has spent all his time on Vietnam.

I said there is no searching needed, its all right there. Have a look for yourself. He is proud of his record, and even bush agrees, he should be. Like I said before, if anyone is driving the vietnam thing into the ground its the swiftboat vets.

 

[ShadowFox]

I don't think you can generalize into those two catagories. Personally I would not jump at the chance. I would not willing join the military either. But if I was called upon to fight for my country, I would. Not only because of patriotism, but also as a chance to better myself both physically and mentally and to represent America the best I can not only in fighting ability, but also to the people of Iraq, or wherever I would go.

That is what I aspire to.

 

[gh0st]

but only 40 % voted

the 40% who cared voted, thus the "better" president is elected.

 

[aeroripper]

It is the sad state of America. The majority of the youth just doesn't care.

No, i think the youth does care. Peace rallies, demonstrations, writing to local congressman. I think american youth doesn't have any faith in the system anymore and i would have to agree with them. Does voting really matter any more? It's like voting for two sides of the same coin.

Now limited restrictions on voicing our "free speech", how else can we show that we care outside of violent means?

And i don't think that it is just american youth that have that problem, but all ages of americans from apathy because we are helpless to change anything really important. (I'm talking about the average blue collar americans, the majority or middle class if there is such a thing)

Now our foreign policy it just reeking havoc on the populace. George Washignton even warned about getting entangled in foreign matters.

 

[Icarusintel]

People who don;t vote, who are eligible are just plain stupid, even if you object to both candidates, you're only hurting the country by not voting, you can find at least a couple things from a candidate you agree with and go with that one, but by not voting, you are letting the chance to change anything slip by, and these people who don;t vote are the ones who bitch and moan abaout change, when all they need to do is get off their asses and vote instead of protesting and complainging all the time, use the system to change

Edit: Aero, you can show you care by voting for someone, even if it's Ralph Nader, if a large percentage of the population votes for someone like him it sends a message out

 

[ShadowFox]

No, i think the youth does care. Peace rallies, demonstrations, writing to local congressman. I think american youth doesn't have any faith in the system anymore and i would have to agree with them. Does voting really matter any more? It's like voting for two sides of the same coin.

THAT IS BULL****.

If they cared as much as you said, then droves of youth would be voting for a 3rd party. It isn't until a 3rd party breaks some ground that the 2 party system will be bucked.

Thus, there is something you can do, but it won't happen because they don't care or have some misguided sense of apathy.

 

[aeroripper]

I don't think you can generalize into those two catagories. Personally I would not jump at the chance. I would not willing join the military either. But if I was called upon to fight for my country, I would. Not only because of patriotism, but also as a chance to better myself both physically and mentally and to represent America the best I can not only in fighting ability, but also to the people of Iraq, or wherever I would go.

That is what I aspire to.

HA! Our actions in Iraq hardly have any regard to the people of Iraq! Also i do think imperialism is the correct word. Why else would we be building all kinds of new miliary bases all around Iraq, why don't you need a passport of any kind to get into Iraq? Why are our bases in Sadia Arabia closing down and being moved to Iraq? Why are we making so much money (soon to be, if they can ever stop attacks on the pipeline) from their oil based economy.

Defintion of imperialism from merrian webster:

im·pe·ri·al·ism: the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence.

What is going on over there right now sounds like a text-book example of imperialism. And the so called new Iraqi Government? The people that were put in there are puppets to the americans rather than the person the populace wanted for their land.

 

[Letters]

Haha, yeah that defnition certainly fits... :O Perhaps imperialism just has developed a negative cannotation before because the reasons it happened for before were less-than-admirable. :hmph:

 

[Icarusintel]

Who cares if going into Iraq was the wrong thing to do, we did it and now we have to stay til things are right, you can't change the past, but you can work, partially by voting, to change the future

 

[FoxDie]

THAT IS BULL****.

If they cared as much as you said, then droves of youth would be voting for a 3rd party. It isn't until a 3rd party breaks some ground that the 2 party system will be bucked.

Thus, there is something you can do, but it won't happen because they don't care or have some misguided sense of apathy.

Well I think that the majority of youth feel that the none of the 3rd parties have a chance of winning. Therefore, in such a heated election like this one, they want to vote for who they feel would be a better leader between the 2 candidates.

I agree, it is ridiculous that realistically only two people run for president each election in this country, but I don't think that's going to change for a long time

 

[aeroripper]

THAT IS BULL****.

If they cared as much as you said, then droves of youth would be voting for a 3rd party. It isn't until a 3rd party breaks some ground that the 2 party system will be bucked.

Thus, there is something you can do, but it won't happen because they don't care or have some misguided sense of apathy.

No what i'm saying is that isn't working. I don't think the system works anymore anyways. Its all about poltics and beaurocrisy (sp). I think there is more apathy with youth is because whatever party gets elected there isn't a huge, gaping difference between them. And no matter what party you elect now, they will have to go head first on the "war on terror" and the approach to that has not been a good one by pre-emptively striking a country that had nothing to do with it.

I think that is what youth see, i'm voting this year but i honestly don't think it's going to make that huge of a difference.

 

[gh0st]

HA! Our actions in Iraq hardly have any regard to the people of Iraq! Also i do think imperialism is the correct word. Why else would we be building all kinds of new miliary bases all around Iraq, why don't you need a passport of any kind to get into Iraq? Why are our bases in Sadia Arabia closing down and being moved to Iraq? Why are we making so much money (soon to be, if they can ever stop attacks on the pipeline) from their oil based economy.

i actually think you're wrong here. i've yet to see any benefits from their "oil based economy". america sure isnt getting richer because of our dastardly plundering of iraq

What is going on over there right now sounds like a text-book example of imperialism. And the so called new Iraqi Government? The people that were put in there are puppets to the americans rather than the person the populace wanted for their land.

of course they are puppets. were not going to let them mess anything up. it was the same way when many of the ww2 powers, and several smaller countries more lately started out. i suggest you give the iraqi government time, because no one can just "start democracy" on a dime.

 

[ShadowFox]

HA! Our actions in Iraq hardly have any regard to the people of Iraq! Also i do think imperialism is the correct word. Why else would we be building all kinds of new miliary bases all around Iraq, why don't you need a passport of any kind to get into Iraq? Why are our bases in Sadia Arabia closing down and being moved to Iraq? Why are we making so much money (soon to be, if they can ever stop attacks on the pipeline) from their oil based economy.

What is going on over there right now sounds like a text-book example of imperialism. And the so called new Iraqi Government? The people that were put in there are puppets to the americans rather than the person the populace wanted for their land.

I don't care if policy isn't for the people. I would still do my best to represent my country in a way I see fit. Screw what W's goals are.

And in case you weren't aware, at the end of WW2 we built military bases all around Europe. The key is, they were temporary. They are a necessity. Our bases are being closed in Saudi Arabia because many of the terrorists are from Saudi Arabia. It is a wise thing to do, if you had any understanding of the situation in the Middle East.

And if you think we are making a profit from Iraq, that is the most laughable concept I have ever heard. Maybe in the future, but not for many years I'm afraid.

Your definition of imperialism is cute, but it only applies to the situation in Iraq when you distort the facts and believe only what fits your agenda.

 

[aeroripper]

i actually think you're wrong here. i've yet to see any benefits from their "oil based economy". america sure isnt getting richer because of our dastardly plundering of iraq

Read:

Why are we making so much money (soon to be, if they can ever stop attacks on the pipeline) from their oil based economy.

Also the many "private contractors" building in Iraq that are making a buttload of money.

Also i just love how we valiantly defend ourselves from terrorism in Iraq but attacking apartment complexes and water stations as "legitimate military targets".

Destroy and let our contractors rebuild and reap the rewards.

 

[ShadowFox]

As Cpt. Stern said before, 40 percent turnout numbers. If they were closer to 90 percent, that 50 percent could EASILY get a 3rd party the required amount of votes to get federal election aid. And then it snowballs.

But obviously there isn't enough dissatisfaction with the current two parties to cause a coordinated movement like that.

The system can easily work if people educate themselves on how they can influence it.

 

[gh0st]

Read:

Why are we making so much money (soon to be, if they can ever stop attacks on the pipeline) from their oil based economy.

Also the many "private contractors" building in Iraq that are making a buttload of money.

can you tell the future? i sure cant.

they are making money from the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT. its not like the "private contractors" are looting iraq so they can stay afloat. these companies like GE, and others.

Also i just love how we valiantly defend ourselves from terrorism in Iraq but attacking apartment complexes and water stations as "legitimate military targets".

Destroy and let our contractors rebuild and reap the rewards.

would you rather we didnt defend our soldiers from terrorism in iraq? as in any war, civilian buildings are hit, destroyed, civilians die. and as i said earlier, those contatractors recieve their paychecks from us. not iraq.