Use your heads, THINK about it for a second

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butternuts

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You guys are going nuts over a stupid legal clause dug up and spread like wildfire. Relax and think about the situation.

Why would VUG purposely withhold the game? Just to "piss Valve off"? No, this isn't high school, this is business. It all boils down to the dollar. I guarantee you VUG wants to release this game ASAP so they can earn their money just like Valve will. The ONLY thing that would be keeping VUG from releasing ASAP is problems/negotiations over distribution methods. If there are problems with the contracts outlining distribution over Steam and it's pricing, THEN there may be a delay. And if there is, this delay would be nowhere near 6 months. VUG is smarter than that.

Also, VUG, which isn't doing so hot right now (They only have Valve and Blizzard as guaranteed income games), would be committing corporate suicide if they pettily refused to release this game. Shareholders would be pissed, sell their stocks, and re-invest with a different company. And 95% of their shareholders probably have no interest in when we get to play HL2, they just want to see their stock prices rise.
 
If holding it back for a coupple months gets VUG the Intellectual Rights to Half-Life 2, I don't doubt too much that they will.

Look at the lawsuit as a whole man... it's pratically a litigation-fist-fight as it is.
 
Well it appears they have held back games in the past, CS:CZ went gold but wasn't released in stores until months later, the copies of it just sat idle in the warehouse.

So yes it appears Vivendi has withheld games in the past to put pressure on Valve or as it is often put, to "piss Valve off". Whether they do it again with HL2 is another matter of course but it is still something to worry about.
 
:frown: Im scared. I hope this lawsuit wont interfere with the release.
 
butternuts said:
You guys are going nuts over a stupid legal clause dug up and spread like wildfire. Relax and think about the situation.

Why would VUG purposely withhold the game? Just to "piss Valve off"? No, this isn't high school, this is business. It all boils down to the dollar. I guarantee you VUG wants to release this game ASAP so they can earn their money just like Valve will. The ONLY thing that would be keeping VUG from releasing ASAP is problems/negotiations over distribution methods. If there are problems with the contracts outlining distribution over Steam and it's pricing, THEN there may be a delay. And if there is, this delay would be nowhere near 6 months. VUG is smarter than that.

Also, VUG, which isn't doing so hot right now (They only have Valve and Blizzard as guaranteed income games), would be committing corporate suicide if they pettily refused to release this game. Shareholders would be pissed, sell their stocks, and re-invest with a different company. And 95% of their shareholders probably have no interest in when we get to play HL2, they just want to see their stock prices rise.
Click to expand...

So it all comes down to, what gives most bang for the buck:

Destroying Valve
Earning some money to patch some of the economic holes.
 
Thinking isn't allowed ;)

But I pretty much agree. Holding HL2 back hurts VUG right now, and any court settlement could be done after the game is released.

So even if VUG won about the distibution method...they'd still get paid no matter when the game was released as the courts would just make valve pay some monatary damages based on the sales through steam.
 
it already IS interfering with the release. I posted this in another topic a while ago, but to me it is plain and obvious that the release of HL2 over steam is undermining the publisher's profits. It seemed inevitable for it to come to this, HL2 being "held hostage" by those greedy f*cks who did not create it, at the expense of the community and the artists who actually made it. Sucks to be us, mark my words, you will not see it till March.
I'll come back and say I told you so around then. Over and out.
 
CS:CZ wasn't a blockbuster, HUGE release like HL2 is though. I guess stranger things have happened, and if they were really stupid, VUG could sit on the game. However, like I said, I think it would be corporate suicide. Millions of dollars are at stake here. If they were SMART, they would push for a release now and sort out the legal problems later. Oh, and I haven't read the law suit in full, but I don't think that the IP rights to the HL franchise are at stake at all. I may be wrong.
 
butternuts said:
CS:CZ wasn't a blockbuster, HUGE release like HL2 is though. I guess stranger things have happened, and if they were really stupid, VUG could sit on the game. However, like I said, I think it would be corporate suicide. Millions of dollars are at stake here. If they were SMART, they would push for a release now and sort out the legal problems later. Oh, and I haven't read the law suit in full, but I don't think that the IP rights to the HL franchise are at stake at all. I may be wrong.
Click to expand...

Or perhaps it could've been more thought out than you initially thought.
 
basicly the lawsuit means this: We will see the game within 6 months. At least we finially have a broad release date...
 
I think that they won't hold it back, this game is much more important to VUG then CS:CZ was.
 
Or they could just sit on it for an entire year and release it next fall so they wouldn't miss the holiday season.

:)
 
Neutrino said:
Or they could just sit on it for an entire year and release it next fall so they wouldn't miss the holiday season.

:)
Click to expand...

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, so I'll answer. No, they can't. They would most certainly be sued into the ground and cease to exist. Six months is their maximum according to contract.
 
im sure if they went on to release HL2 and then won the court case then Valve would have to give cash to VU from the Steam sales. There isnt any reason to delay.
 
Lets kick VUGs ass and make them publish the damn game, I've been waiting too long for some idiot publisher to Pi** around with my copy of the game.
 
WhiteZero said:
If holding it back for a coupple months gets VUG the Intellectual Rights to Half-Life 2, I don't doubt too much that they will.

Look at the lawsuit as a whole man... it's pratically a litigation-fist-fight as it is.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if VUG gets the IP for Half-life simply because Valve is known to well, and respected, so that if VUG got the rights to HL2 Valve would simply build another game and it would be a succes, and if HL3 would have been build by another team it would have to face really hard sceptism and would probably fail miserably! Cause nobody would be interested in it without Valve as the developer. :afro: :afro: :afro:
 
After HL2 has been published and is on shelves, can VALVe change publishers?
or are they on some kind of binding contract?
 
Grey Fox said:
Cause nobody would be interested in it without Valve as the developer.
Click to expand...

very false statement. there is a only a small percentage of gamers that bother to care what company is developing a game, and an even smaller percentage that would decide not to be interested based on that.
 
If Vivendi thinks they can earn more money by sitting on it for 6 months and getting rid of online distribution they might very well do it.

Hopefully they wont, and the PR wont be that good either...
 
Congradulations Vivendi.

You have just made Steam all the more popular with me. I am not buying your boxed version HL2 for sure now.
 
poseyjmac said:
very false statement. there is a only a small percentage of gamers that bother to care what company is developing a game, and an even smaller percentage that would decide not to be interested based on that.
Click to expand...


It just depends. I'd buy any game that Blizzard/Valve developed (Weird how they both distro through VUG...) I'd say that about id too but D3 was a big dissapointment for me. Besides, it's the gameplay, not the name associated with the IP that makes a developer famous. Before Half Life was released, nobody ever heard of the game. It was the fun gameplay that made it famous. If somehow VUG aquires the rights to the HL intellectual property, then can easily make a new game in a new universe that has nothing to do with Half Life, and the gameplay will still be there.
 
butternuts said:
It just depends. I'd buy any game that Blizzard/Valve developed (Weird how they both distro through VUG...) I'd say that about id too but D3 was a big dissapointment for me. Besides, it's the gameplay, not the name associated with the IP that makes a developer famous. Before Half Life was released, nobody ever heard of the game. It was the fun gameplay that made it famous. If somehow VUG aquires the rights to the HL intellectual property, then can easily make a new game in a new universe that has nothing to do with Half Life, and the gameplay will still be there.
Click to expand...

are you sure you quoted the right person? this is way off tangent from what i was saying.
 
Does everyone remember how cool condition zero was going to be and how everyone was getting really hyped up about it. Then after the gold announcement and 6 months later it still wasnt distributed, people lost interest.

VUG would have to see what *they* did to CZ and they would not repeat it again. It would just be stupid. Besides, if vivendi do hold it back, they are going to have a large force to reckon with in terms of enemys. The whole half life 2 community. We brought down the hackers that stole the code, we have rallied around valve and have done really cool things for them when times are tough. We can stop the game from selling well, and we can do the best we possibly can to bring VUG to its knees. I know if they hold half life 2 back for 6 months, I will do something very bad to VUG and I am sure other members of the community will too.

*i hate to sound a little angry, but they just piss me off by doing stupid things like they do*
 
southparksam said:
Does everyone remember how cool condition zero was going to be and how everyone was getting really hyped up about it. Then after the gold announcement and 6 months later it still wasnt distributed, people lost interest.

VUG would have to see what *they* did to CZ and they would not repeat it again. It would just be stupid. Besides, if vivendi do hold it back, they are going to have a large force to reckon with in terms of enemys. The whole half life 2 community. We brought down the hackers that stole the code, we have rallied around valve and have done really cool things for them when times are tough. We can stop the game from selling well, and we can do the best we possibly can to bring VUG to its knees. I know if they hold half life 2 back for 6 months, I will do something very bad to VUG and I am sure other members of the community will too.

*i hate to sound a little angry, but they just piss me off by doing stupid things like they do*
Click to expand...

You made a great point. Although, this is Half-Life 2 we are talking about here. However, CS:CZ was going to be big and ended up being crap, didn't even do very well. Now all this crap going on between Valve and VU is a drag, although VU isn't dumb enough to delay this game for months. It's going to be in all of our hands before December. What really makes me upset and mad is all this delaying for HL2. If it was released back in Sept 03, i would of been extremelly excited, now i'll still play it but to be honest, i've lost quite some interest from this game...i just hope it lives up to my expectations. :(
 
tokin said:
You made a great point. Although, this is Half-Life 2 we are talking about here. However, CS:CZ was going to be big and ended up being crap, didn't even do very well. Now all this crap going on between Valve and VU is a drag, although VU isn't dumb enough to delay this game for months. It's going to be in all of our hands before December. What really makes me upset and mad is all this delaying for HL2. If it was released back in Sept 03, i would of been extremelly excited, now i'll still play it but to be honest, i've lost quite some interest from this game...i just hope it lives up to my expectations. :(
Click to expand...

I do believe it will live up to all of our expectations, valve have proved that they are an amazing development team, and will continue to do so. However, if I cannot buy half life 2 over steam, I am going to have to go without playing it, because I will not support vivendi anymore, or any of there foreign distributors.
 
poseyjmac said:
you believe the impossible!
Click to expand...

No I dont,

For I have a dream!

A dream where we can live happily together, all races and genders, under one sun, playing half life 2!

* I need to get out more *
 
uh... VU *intentionally* delayed CZ past the holiday season, just to push back a little on Valve.

Understand this: for VU - HL2 coming out in 6 months with 50% profits from Steam distribution (or 10%, for that matter) is way better than coming out now with no profit from Steam. They will hold onto the gold copy until they get a chunk of steam, or until a court tells them otherwise.

You guys seem to be forgetting a couple of things.

1. Being delayed 6 months will not appreciably diminish sales. Hell, for that matter, another year wont diminish sales. Period.

2. VU is a huge, multibilliondollar company. HL2 is a small pebble on their horizon. As huge as it is to you and me, it's fairly small to them.

3. There is principe at stake here. VU doesnt want to allow a precendent of "home-grown" delivery mechanisms.

Anyway, yes it sucks, but things dont look good for a 2004 release. I am hoping that CS: Source is not under the same agreement (i doubt it is) and therefore will be released soon.

S
 
"Also, VUG, which isn't doing so hot right now (They only have Valve and Blizzard as guaranteed income games), would be committing corporate suicide if they pettily refused to release this game. Shareholders would be pissed, sell their stocks, and re-invest with a different company. And 95% of their shareholders probably have no interest in when we get to play HL2, they just want to see their stock prices rise."

VU has been looking to get rid of its game arm for a while, this just adds to that urgency. I expect EA would snap this stuff up in a second if given the chance.

- Echo
 
I bet that once Valve is free and clear, they'll head over to Activision - they seem to have a good working relationship with their developers (id, Grey Matter, Infinty Ward, etc.)
 
poseyjmac said:
very false statement. there is a only a small percentage of gamers that bother to care what company is developing a game, and an even smaller percentage that would decide not to be interested based on that.
Click to expand...

Thats just plain wrong, everybody who plays cs or hl knows Valve, one of the main reasons is steam, because of it you see valve's name every time you start it and not VUG, besides the thing that kept HL going all this years are the fans, and the mod makers, and thast is one of the big reasins why al ot of people will buy it, because of the mods, if valve took on a nother project it would get all the attention from the fans and the modmakers, and magazines, a lot of people wouldn't trust a HL3 without Valve. Casual buyers can't support a game for six years, why do you think Valve has put so much in the game for the fans and the mod makers, like the hammer editor wich is user friendly and th source conversions, if We who know Valve wern't that important then they wouldn't spend so muc time on it, but would rather take the EA way and yust spend the time on marketing, so NO Valve NO HL3
 
Grey Fox said:
Thats just plain wrong, everybody who plays cs or hl knows Valve, one of the main reasons is steam, because of it you see valve's name every time you start it and not VUG, besides the thing that kept HL going all this years are the fans, and the mod makers, and thast is one of the big reasins why al ot of people will buy it, because of the mods, if valve took on a nother project it would get all the attention from the fans and the modmakers, and magazines, a lot of people wouldn't trust a HL3 without Valve. Casual buyers can't support a game for six years, why do you think Valve has put so much in the game for the fans and the mod makers, like the hammer editor wich is user friendly and th source conversions, if We who know Valve wern't that important then they wouldn't spend so muc time on it, but would rather take the EA way and yust spend the time on marketing, so NO Valve NO HL3
Click to expand...

the only way you can get close to proving your point is naming a time where a sequel to a mega-successfull product wasn't given much attention simply because of a company change.

you and others need to understand that people who follow game companies progress and know the names of people that work at them are a very small minority.
 
poseyjmac said:
the only way you can get close to proving your point is naming a time where a sequel to a mega-successfull product wasn't given much attention simply because of a company change.
Click to expand...
Prince of Persia 3d..

but then again, that game was utter crap, so does that count?
 
f|uke said:
Prince of Persia 3d..

but then again, that game was utter crap, so does that count?
Click to expand...

not really. quality really isn't a variable here. hes saying the company change alone will be the reason people don't care.
 
poseyjmac said:
not really. quality really isn't a variable here. hes saying the company change alone will be the reason people don't care.
Click to expand...

Seems to me like he's saying the HL1 community will move on to support HL2....
 
Demonmerc said:
Seems to me like he's saying the HL1 community will move on to support HL2....
Click to expand...

howd you get that from this?

Grey Fox said:
Cause nobody would be interested in it without Valve as the developer.
Click to expand...

that statement is false first of all.

the name of the game is much more important than the company who makes it. look at movies. MOST people care about the actual name/theme and actors in the movie, but they don't care about the directors, producers, writers. the majority of people are like this. which is why there is that repeated cycle of people getting hyped for a movie because it has a name and some good actors, and then getting let down, whether it be a new star wars movie, a new batman movie or whatever.

the GTA series alone is very popular with console gamers, do you really think the average console gamer playing GTA cares which company makes the next GTA? hes going to buy it anyway because its GTA.

most people are just not that nerdy to keep up on the details of a game company. they are probably well...playing an actual game
 
I, for one, care about who is behind the product.

I didn't trust Paul Anderson with AvP. That movie sucked.
I didn't trust the switch from Tim Burton to Jerry Bruckheimer on the Batman films. The last two blew.
I didn't trust Irrational Games with Tribes Vengeance. That game is practicallly Fisher-Price material.

Yeah, I generally keep an eye on who is running things because it can make a difference.

But my purchase decision does not end with the developer. If the title they put out is good, then props to them. They've earned my trust.
 
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