Useless theories

[repiV]

No matter how powerful you are, you are gonna have at least one other person that has more power than you, so that risk is prominent regardless of your economic status (more of a generalization of the public, as not everyone is a dictator of a country).

Yes, according to most people economic power is important in success, but to lay that down as an absolute fact is wrong IMO. repiV made mention to Third-World communities that do in fact get along without thousands of dollars, yet are still happy and successful to themselves.

Why not just leave it at "some people dont need social power to be successful in life"? What you define as success isnt what another person might think.

I still think of success in terms of wealth and status (although status moreso than wealth - I'd rather be a fighter pilot or paramedic than a rich businessman, but that's never gonna happen so I'll have to settle for the suit and tie). But happiness is most important to me, and I think happiness is all about the quality of your relationships. Those relationships we place comparatively little importance on in our mobile, urban, self-serving society. Is it any wonder our society is getting sadder and more discontent even as the wealth and quality of life continues to grow exponentially?

 

[hydrometeor]

No matter how powerful you are, you are gonna have at least one other person that has more power than you, so that risk is prominent regardless of your economic status (more of a generalization of the public, as not everyone is a dictator of a country).

Even semi-powerful people have the resources to escape danger. They have access to private automobiles, can afford good lawyers, plane tickets, travel expenses, etc. Why do you think people in some parts of Africa can't escape their terrible situation, and often starve to death or are killed? How are they in any way successful? When a drought hits, is the happy farmer in Africa still successful, when he can't move somewhere else?

repiV made mention to Third-World communities that do in fact get along without thousands of dollars, yet are still happy and successful to themselves.

Again, this may be true until a drought hits or marauding army invades.

Why not just leave it at "some people dont need social power to be successful in life"? What you define as success isnt what another person might think.

Social power is necessary to be successful in life. Success is an absolute, not something that is relative. You cannot be successful when you're stuck in a gulag, in jail, or starving to death.

 

[Wanted Bob]

@ repiV: That is disheartening to think about

I cant state how important the relations with my friends and family are to me, without them I doubt I would have the motivation to succeed in the first place.

@ hydrometeor: Success is completely relative, what might be considered a success to one person wouldnt be success to another (ie. A poor student acheives a 60% on an exam considers it a success, while a good student getting 60% wouldnt see it as much of a success).

 

[repiV]

That is disheartening to think about

I cant state how important the relations with my friends and family are to me, without them I doubt I would have the motivation to succeed in the first place.

Exactly. And those relationships are the part of life we usually cut down on to manage our increasingly busy lives and all-encompassing careers.
Family when you can spare the time. Friends are networking tools that exist to help you climb the ladder. McGirlfriends - because a deep and meaningful relationship is just too much time and effort.
I feel that's the path we're really heading down now.

 

[hydrometeor]

@ hydrometeor: Success is completely relative, what might be considered a success to one person wouldnt be success to another (ie. A poor student acheives a 60% on an exam considers it a success, while a good student getting 60% wouldnt see it as much of a success).

I will take this example to the extreme to show a point. Say that the good student finds a good job after college, while the poor student is stuck working at Walmart. They both feel they are successful. Let's say they're living in New Orleans. Then Hurricane Katrina hits, and both are left homeless. The good student can afford a new house and job in a different city, while the poor student doesn't have the resources to do this. Is he still successful, even though he's homeless and jobless?

 

[Wanted Bob]

Man, this thread got me down in the dumps....

Then I received a nasty goatse shock in the Image Dump, so I think I'm good now

@ hydrometeor: That would be entirley his own opinion (though by most peoples standards he wouldnt be doing so great, I admit).

 

[repiV]

Man, this thread got me down in the dumps....

Hey, not meaning to depress ya.

Look at it this way - at least you still have your health.

Eish, I'd better go to sleep now. I'm trying to maintain some kind of sleep pattern. Good to talk to ya Bob, hope to see you around here more often.

 

[Wanted Bob]

Hey, not meaning to depress ya.

Look at it this way - at least you still have your health.

Eish, I'd better go to sleep now. I'm trying to maintain some kind of sleep pattern. Good to talk to ya Bob, hope to see you around here more often.

Heh, no worries, its nice to get the feeling that others feel the same way about todays society. Nice talking with you too.

 

[hydrometeor]

Man, this thread got me down in the dumps....

Then I received a nasty goatse shock in the Image Dump, so I think I'm good now

@ hydrometeor: That would be entirley his own opinion (though by most peoples standards he wouldnt be doing so great, I admit).

Well, your personal ideas of success fail when suddenly you're starving, being tortured, or killed. That's why it's not relative. Poor Jews might have been happy living in Poland until one day they found themselves in Auschwitz.

 

[Wanted Bob]

Oh, I'm not saying that those sort of things are considered success to me, more the uncertainty behind the hypothetical person. All I can say to defend my position is that you would never know 100% unless you were that person.

For me, starvation, toture or murder isnt success, if you want something to agree with

 

[Darkside55]

I do believe some of you are confusing personal satisfaction with success. Success ISN'T relative, as Hydrometeor said; success is measured within, at the very least, generally accepted terms; while one might think themself successful being in a low-paying-yet-high-satisfaction job that they are successful, but the truth is that they are "merely" happy with the situation, they are not successful.

Most people do not understand how to differentiate, and this leads them to believe they are enjoying successful lives. You may be a broke-ass peasant with a positive outlook and no major complaints about your situation; this makes you satisfied. On the opposite you could be incredibly wealthy and unhappy; this does not mean you are not successful--you are--but you are not satisfied with your life. And the reverse of this is also true: the poor person disappointed with the way their life turned out, and the rich person who feels blessed at their good fortune. And then of course there are the people in the middle who can swing any which way.

Success != satisfaction.

 

[Wanted Bob]

Guess Ive been misleading then. Thanks for clearing that up, Darkside. Sure then, technically people with lower IQ's may not be as "successful" as others, but as you said they may have much more personal satisfaction.

Well, I'm done in this arguement/debate. I'm off to bed, anticipating Assassin's Creed so much right now!

 

[Cole]

A probability is not racist. If the average black person has a less IQ then the average white person that is statistic. However to assume a black person is stupider than this white guy is racism. You could judge that the black person may have a higher probablity to be stupider, but theres no reason to assume he is stupider unless the probablity that the average black person is stupider than the average white person is infintely high(such as the probablity of you not being able to walk through a solid metal wall.).


Now to say the average black person will never be equal in society because they will never be able to have the same IQ as a white person is debatable and you would have to look at past trends in IQ change. I wouldn't say its racism unless you mean that they wont simply because they are black. However another way to look at it would be through the use of statistics. You also have to take into account how much dumber white people in America are getting. It's a debatable topic and its not racism if you are basing what you're saying off of statistics and trends within those statistics.

 

[theotherguy]

He might be talking bollocks, but so are you. Race is not just a social construct, although that is a completely separate issue and involves a different meaning of the term altogether. There's a reason that the best athletes are black - they're flat-out physically superior to other races.
Does that make me racist too?

Yes, race has genetic basis. But those changes are tiny. Basically the only thing effected is melanin levels, higher incidence of sickle cell anemia, and facial features. Those changes alone make blacks better capable of surviving in Africa, but it has nothing to do with IQ in the slightest.

Blacks are not physically superior to whites. That is another social construct. Blacks are simply expected to be good at sports, so we invent a false correlation.

Evidently the different human races exist for a reason - white people aren't very well equipped to live in hot climates without the aid of technology.

And neither are black people. Black people just happen to be less prone to sunburn.

The biggest bollocks of all though is your quip about "social constraints placed on people of minority races". Black people get the most help of all, and whites are discriminated against on a daily basis in order to give unfair priority to them. Other racial groups perform better than whites, both in the West and in their home countries. Asians (particularly East Asians and Indians) consistently outperform whites in education and in the workplace, in both our countries.

Asians, unlike blacks, were not subjected to 200 years of slavery and extreme discrimination. Certainly they were despised in this country, even more than blacks, but they were always free, and always allowed to run buisnessess. Their economic success, along with their cultural customs, are the only reasons for their academic success. The same can be said of Eastern countries, which generally have strong economies, relatively stable political climates, and cultures that encourage personal learning.

Blacks, on the other hand, most certainly do not. Black culture rewards people who can't speak English properly (no wonder they can't get a job), make nothing of their lives (if you wear a suit and try and make it in the white man's world, you're a sellout and you're acting white) and is generally the anti-thesis of anything that would inspire success. Just look at hip-hop for christ's sake.
For the last time, it ain't all the ****ing white man's fault. The white man has actually been assraped for the last 40 years to give minorities unfair advantages. Got it?

You have not been "assraped". You don't even know what the meaning of being "assraped" or "discriminated against" is. Until you have been put in chains, whipped to the fields,harrassed by the KKK, had your family lynched, had your voting rights annulled, had to go to a seperate bathroom, water fountain, bus, or graveyard because of your skin color, and been denied jobs and education by a cruel, hateful majority, you will not know what it is like to be discriminated against.

Quite frankly, I find it appalling that you feel that the "white man" deserves better treatment, after centuries of oppression, hate and discrimination on his part.

The cultural divide is 100 percent economic. Those economic woes stem from the centuries of oppression which blacks have endured. It is the fault of the majority that the minority now rests in such a dangerous position. It is, ultimately, our fault. We took them into bondage, we oppressed and degraded them, we discriminated, beat, lynched, raped, and hated them, and look where that hate has gotten us now. It is our duty to undo the damage we have done in any way possible by encouraging economic and educational growth, to end this cycle which has deprived blacks from opportunity for centuries.

 

[Cole]

For blacks being better athletes. It probably has nothing to do with the fact that they are black. Rather because a high majority of black people grow up in places where they don't have internet, computers, cable TV, etc.. They don't grow up in the best places. Since they arn't sitting on there asses watching TV and going on the internet. They are spending most of there weekends being active outside; for instance playing basketball. Because of this a majority of them are more physically conditioned.

Also what about the book, "Black Like Me". A white man turned his skin color black to get an idea of the racism black people were going through at the time in the south. Does that mean simply because he turned his skin color black he is now physically superior but now is stupider?

 

[Anthraxxx]

....and I thought this thread was going to be about creationism.

 

[lame-o]

Basatrds

EDIT: YES.

 

[Krynn72]

You have not been "assraped". You don't even know what the meaning of being "assraped" or "discriminated against" is. Until you have been put in chains, whipped to the fields,harrassed by the KKK, had your family lynched, had your voting rights annulled, had to go to a seperate bathroom, water fountain, bus, or graveyard because of your skin color, and been denied jobs and education by a cruel, hateful majority, you will not know what it is like to be discriminated against.

Quite frankly, I find it appalling that you feel that the "white man" deserves better treatment, after centuries of oppression, hate and discrimination on his part.

The cultural divide is 100 percent economic. Those economic woes stem from the centuries of oppression which blacks have endured. It is the fault of the majority that the minority now rests in such a dangerous position. It is, ultimately, our fault. We took them into bondage, we oppressed and degraded them, we discriminated, beat, lynched, raped, and hated them, and look where that hate has gotten us now. It is our duty to undo the damage we have done in any way possible by encouraging economic and educational growth, to end this cycle which has deprived blacks from opportunity for centuries.

WE did that huh? I sure as hell dont remember the last time I beat, lynched, raped or degraded any black person. I doubt anyone here, or anyone I know has done any such thing. And yet, every one of us is subjugated to the punishment. To solve the problem we shouldnt give blacks an unfair playing field. We should give them the same. To treat them better than we (and they) treat ourselves is not the ****ing solution. Its simply trading one era of racism for another. Punishing an entire race of people for what their ancestors did is ludicrous, and reparations should not be the responsibility of innocent people who've done nothing wrong.

 

[repiV]

Yes, race has genetic basis. But those changes are tiny. Basically the only thing effected is melanin levels, higher incidence of sickle cell anemia, and facial features. Those changes alone make blacks better capable of surviving in Africa, but it has nothing to do with IQ in the slightest.

You're simply not qualified to say whether or not race has any inherent influence over IQ. We're a long way off understanding that.

Blacks are not physically superior to whites. That is another social construct. Blacks are simply expected to be good at sports, so we invent a false correlation.

Yes, they are. It's a lot easier for them to develop muscle mass. Something to do with longer fibres if I remember correctly.

And neither are black people. Black people just happen to be less prone to sunburn.



Asians, unlike blacks, were not subjected to 200 years of slavery and extreme discrimination. Certainly they were despised in this country, even more than blacks, but they were always free, and always allowed to run buisnessess. Their economic success, along with their cultural customs, are the only reasons for their academic success. The same can be said of Eastern countries, which generally have strong economies, relatively stable political climates, and cultures that encourage personal learning.

You mean unlike the black culture which discourages personal learning and makes economic success all but impossible?
It might have just happened to escape your notice all these years, but apart from rap stars, there are no successful black people who "act black". They're successful because they've shunned black culture in order to make something of themselves.

You have not been "assraped". You don't even know what the meaning of being "assraped" or "discriminated against" is. Until you have been put in chains, whipped to the fields,harrassed by the KKK, had your family lynched, had your voting rights annulled, had to go to a seperate bathroom, water fountain, bus, or graveyard because of your skin color, and been denied jobs and education by a cruel, hateful majority, you will not know what it is like to be discriminated against.

Really?
White males receive the vast majority of discrimination in modern society. We are denied jobs and university places in order to give them to a less talented minority, just to fill a quota. We are held to blame for the problems of every other group in society. We are also the main victims of race-related crime - in the UK, there are eight times as many racially motivated murders of whites by blacks as the other way around.
And the vast majority of crime committed against black people is by black people. Yet somehow, it's all our fault.
Not to mention organisations like "Black Entertainment Television" and the "Black Police Association". Unashamedly racist groups but it's OK because they're black.
I also have epilepsy, I'm a biker and I'm currently on crutches/in a wheelchair for the best part of a year. All three of these things invoke a great deal of prejudice, so, yes, I know what it's like to be discriminated against. I also know when to call bullshit.

Quite frankly, I find it appalling that you feel that the "white man" deserves better treatment, after centuries of oppression, hate and discrimination on his part.

Where did I say anything about better treatment?

The cultural divide is 100 percent economic. Those economic woes stem from the centuries of oppression which blacks have endured. It is the fault of the majority that the minority now rests in such a dangerous position. It is, ultimately, our fault. We took them into bondage, we oppressed and degraded them, we discriminated, beat, lynched, raped, and hated them, and look where that hate has gotten us now. It is our duty to undo the damage we have done in any way possible by encouraging economic and educational growth, to end this cycle which has deprived blacks from opportunity for centuries.

Complete bullshit. The opportunities are there in abundance, and we already provide far too much unwarranted assistance to minorities. The biggest enemy of the black man in our society is other black men. They keep themselves at the bottom of the ladder, it sure as hell ain't got shit to do with us.

 

[jverne]

Your economic status/power in life is the most important part of success. Otherwise someone more powerful than you can throw you into solitary confinement or kill you, and there's nothing you can do about it.

i partially agree with you...power gives you freedom you otherwise could not have. but of course some people will be happy even if they get raped...so i cannot form a general conclusion about happiness.

 

[NeptuneUK]

Useless?

<RJMC> actually speaks perfect English.