Using the Manipulator for elevation.

[Crusader]

So many laws of physics going unheeded here ^^

 

[AJM2K3]

Not reading pages 2 and 3 but it seems like the author is forgetting one fundamental physical law, Newton's 1st.

"An object at rest will remain at rest and an object in motion will remain in motion (that is, with constant speed in a straight line) unless influenced by an EXTERNAL force"

Of course, it is a game.... so maybe I'll just shut up.

 

[Daiceman9]

Even if valve perfectially implemented physics, there still is a chance it would work, rember this is a "furture weapon" and it might very well defy the laws of physics.

 

[benpatient]

laws of physics aren't technically defiable. bendable? yes. fake-defiable? yes? defiable? no.

 

[tkato]

Dont bet, i played the leak (dont kill me for that please) and used the Physgun (Samething) i shoot a barrel so i coud jump on her, when i was on her i pointed my beam down and jumped, clearly this is a bug in the havoc physics system, useful but a bug, the half life physics system works on Mass when you jump the barrel will go up so does you because you on the barrel this sequence actully make a fly effect that resembels lifting but not exactly the smaething, in reality, this coud not excist.

 

[tkato]

The manipulator uses vacuum energy (zero-point energy), so maybe it would be possible in real life too (but I guess you would get a Nobel prize if could make a machine like this)

I don`t know if you get it but havoc physics are not normal physics, thank you.

in halflife theres only the Mass channel what about the weight? in reality we actully got a weight in halflife only Mass (yes i checked with the hl2 system...)

 

[clarky003]

.....mass (density) + gravity, = weight, and then all the air resisitance is simulated and reacts with the weight of the object , not sure weither it reacts to specific surface areas. (air plane wing, etc), does anyone do science? ,

plus as good as valves simulation of gravity and mass is, i doubt it's perfect. im sure at this very moment their still ironing it to stop silly interations happening for the people who will test the physics, Crazy stylie , wacking objects everywhere etc..

i know lots of interactions proved a problem in the leak.. too many touching objects would just all of a sudden, get stuck to each other :O like they where glued .. and then it would crash not long after that

 

[jonnyapps]

umm.. silly thread. wouldn't your knees just bend?

 

[Rebel X]

I was wondering: If you stand on the exact balance point on a box, point down the manipulator and press the "attract" button, will the box work as an elevator?
That could be really useful on some situations, right?

I asked Valve the exact same thing in an email about 2-3 months ago, but sadly i got no answer.
They did answer my other two emails tho' :naughty:

 

[Rocketman9mm]

Well, you can get to higher places via rocket launcher, can't you? (jumping higher than normal by using a rocket launcher's impact concussion).

sure, if you want to liquify your legs.

 

[Andy]

no... all the force is applied to the object. That's what the manipulator does.

That would also defy the laws of physics. And more to the point,the manipulator wouldn't have a recoil.

It would only work if that object touched the ground in that very moment when the manipulator is fired.

Not so, when rockets fire, it is the particles leaving from the back that move the rocket, they don't actually have to hit anything. Otherwise, thrusters wouldn't work in space.

What's likely is that the manipulator simply acts like a gun, where not enough recoil is produced to move Gordon (if you fired a gun at the ground, you would not expect it to lift you up), and if not enough force is produced to move Gordon on the ground where opposing force may be somthing like 380N (taking g as 9.8 and coefficient of friction as 0.5 and mass as 78kg) then it is unlikely that it will move him up, where the opposing force will be gravity and thus double that (760N)

 

[Cylleruion2012]

nothings impossible.

In a computer game, many things are impossible. sorry.

 

[azz0r]

Technically it is possible depending on the force a minipulator would have.

If it could lift 12 stone by default for example, the box weights half a stone, you weight eight, you lift the box it could lift you on it because the weight its pulling is only 8 1/2 stone.

 

[Cylleruion2012]

I doubt it's in the game, though.

 

[Impulse147]

Believe me try and pull urself up off the ground by your shoe laces its possible, you really have to pull out and up for this to work, there is about half a second between when ur feet come off the ground and your ass hits the ground.

 

[Impulse147]

In a computer game, many things are impossible. sorry.

Its only impossible because restrictions are set in the game.


I really hope none of you are taking all this seriously. :cheese:

 

[PatPwnt]

okay... about the shoe laces... try levitating by pulling the arms of your chair up as hard as you can while sitting in it... Don't put you feet on the ground. Now, you understand its impossible.

I don't think there is the opposite force when shooting objects with the manipulator in half life2. If there was, you would have a kick back everytime you shot something in the air and I haven't seen that in the videos, so I doubt you can do the same by aiming at the ground unless they made it specifically to do so.

 

[Impulse147]

okay... about the shoe laces... try levitating by pulling the arms of your chair up as hard as you can while sitting in it... Don't put you feet on the ground. Now, you understand its impossible.

ok first off i've never tried it while sitting in my chair which ways 150 pounds(plus my 190 pounds)

and second you guys are taking this way to seriously,it was all a joke

though i really did try and pull myself up by my shoe laces after we had this discussion, and it does not work, it hurts but doesn't work

 

[PatPwnt]

sorry... but theres some people out there that really think it is possible and it is my duty to enlighten them.

 

[Driftlight]

If anyone is curious, zero-point energy actually does theoretically exist (theoretical in the scientific sense - phsycists are pretty sure about it). Better known as vacuum energy, this is the amount of energy an area of 'empty' space has.

Here are some links:
http://www.free-definition.com/Vacuum-energy.html
http://explanation-guide.info/meaning/Vacuum-energy.html

Edit: This doesn't mean you can violate Newton though, and pick yourself up with it (though I guess a bug in the "beta" overrides newton).

 

[Scapegoat]

Don't think you can, I'm too lazy to read past posts so I'll say what I think. If your on top of a box and use the manipulator, then you wouldn't just be lifting the box, but the box plus your weight, and I would assume that the "weight limit" for the manipulator is maxed out around or just below Gordon's weight. If you jumped, and then used the manipulator, it would pull the box up to your feet, and then you and the box would fall down again.

 

[CHiLLaXen]

the moon

what if you try pulling yourself or your shoe lace when your on the moon?

 

[Dead-Inside]

ok first off i've never tried it while sitting in my chair which ways 150 pounds(plus my 190 pounds)

and second you guys are taking this way to seriously,it was all a joke

though i really did try and pull myself up by my shoe laces after we had this discussion, and it does not work, it hurts but doesn't work

News Flash: You're a moron.

what if you try pulling yourself or your shoe lace when your on the moon?

That's not really the same thing. That's the mass of your arms moving you upwards (It's the same thing on earth but the thing is that the gravity is too strong for you to lift off). On the moon, gravity is ligther, thus this would likely make you lift off of the ground and then gently land again.

 

[phantomdesign]

You'd be more likely to have the manipulator rip off your fingers.

 

[ferd]

Technically it is possible depending on the force a minipulator would have.

If it could lift 12 stone by default for example, the box weights half a stone, you weight eight, you lift the box it could lift you on it because the weight its pulling is only 8 1/2 stone.

well it can move a car...

 

[Dile]

I don't think there is the opposite force when shooting objects with the manipulator in half life2. If there was, you would have a kick back everytime you shot something in the air and I haven't seen that in the videos, so I doubt you can do the same by aiming at the ground unless they made it specifically to do so.

If anyone is curious, zero-point energy actually does theoretically exist (theoretical in the scientific sense - phsycists are pretty sure about it). Better known as vacuum energy, this is the amount of energy an area of 'empty' space has.

Thats what im talking about people.

Not so, when rockets fire, it is the particles leaving from the back that move the rocket, they don't actually have to hit anything. Otherwise, thrusters wouldn't work in space.

What's likely is that the manipulator simply acts like a gun, where not enough recoil is produced to move Gordon (if you fired a gun at the ground, you would not expect it to lift you up), and if not enough force is produced to move Gordon on the ground where opposing force may be somthing like 380N (taking g as 9.8 and coefficient of friction as 0.5 and mass as 78kg) then it is unlikely that it will move him up, where the opposing force will be gravity and thus double that (760N)

The only mistake in your theory is that you don't realize the manipulator is using vacuum energy.
This is why it doesn't work as a gun or rocket launcher.

The player has no momentum in this case, only the counterforce can lift you up. And counterforce only occurs if the object youre launching touches the ground.

 

[Dead-Inside]

In the rocketlauncher case, unless you have a freebarrel (Like most do) the exhaust inside the tube produces a heavy recoil upon fire. However most, basically all, RL's are designed so that the exhaust just blows out on the back and thus you don't get a recoil at all. But that's just talking about the RL

You're right Dile :cheers:

Regards
Dead-Inside

 

[aFireInside0016]

The "beta" has this bug. If you stand on something and lift it with the manipulator,
you will end up in heaven in less than a second.

I guess this will be corrected in the retail build...

Yeah, I just tried, and when you step on an object, such as a table or mattress, you cannot lift the object that you're standing on. You can shoot the object you're standing on but nothing really happens. Nice try buddy. Also, i tried with the Physgun, it seems like you should be able to do this with the physgun.

:farmer:

 

[Wilco]

Im surprise that Firing at the ground with the manipulator doesnt push you upwards.

 

[el Chi]

actually if ur strong enough u could pull yourself up by your shoe laces and therefore have lifted yourself up by your shoe laces(temporaily of course). though the way down would not be too much fun.

It wouldn't be possible because Gordon's weight would be counter-blancing any force the Manipulator had - it might even drag the object out from underneath you. It doesn't seem to make much sense.
And no you couldn't pick yourself up off the ground by your shoe-laces, not least because they'd snap. What you're suggesting is that if someone is very strong they can defy gravity...
I'd concur with Dead-Inside's News Flash...

Wilco - Im surprise that Firing at the ground with the manipulator doesnt push you upwards.

Yeah I would have thought something similar - not massively high, but a similkar effect to a rocket jump.

 

[Dile]

Yeah, I just tried, and when you step on an object, such as a table or mattress, you cannot lift the object that you're standing on. You can shoot the object you're standing on but nothing really happens. Nice try buddy. Also, i tried with the Physgun, it seems like you should be able to do this with the physgun.

:farmer:

Yeah, because you have to jump, and press the RMB in mid-air.

 

[DeltaBlast]

Do not try and bend the physics; that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth.
-What truth?
There are no physics.
-There are no physics?
Then you'll see that it is not the physics that bend, it is only yourself.

 

[el Chi]

Do not try and bend the physics; that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth.
-What truth?
There are no physics.
-There are no physics?
Then you'll see that it is not the physics that bend, it is only yourself.

Keanu Reeves should've elbowed that kid in the face:
"Oh really? Well bend THIS you cryptic little c*nt."
<Smack>

 

[PatPwnt]

what if you try pulling yourself or your shoe lace when your on the moon?

Don't even start. It's impossible even in space.

 

[PatPwnt]

Yeah, I just tried, and when you step on an object, such as a table or mattress, you cannot lift the object that you're standing on. You can shoot the object you're standing on but nothing really happens. Nice try buddy. Also, i tried with the Physgun, it seems like you should be able to do this with the physgun.

:farmer:

You have to jump first.

 

[PatPwnt]

What don't you understand? It's not gordon that's throwing the objects. It's the manipulator! There is no kick back because that's what the manipulator does. It probably just transfers it into some other kind of energy or something. Maybe that's why theres a weight limit too. The heavier, the more energy is required. Why do you think gordon uses the manipulator in the first place instead of just throwing stuff with his arms? DUH! because the manipulator requires no kick backs or work.

Yea... I just quoted myself so I didn't have to type it all out again. It was from a different thread.

 

[Dile]

Look at this picture I've made for you. Forces are represented by arrows.

If you pull your sholace, there will be 2 forces: you pulling your sholace, and you using the ground as support, pressing it.
These 2 forces eliminate each other -> no movement. Neither on the moon.

 

[PatPwnt]

Yay for dile... okay newbs enough with the shoelace topic it was just pwnt.

 

[Jimlad]

My God, if there's one thing this thread has taught me, it's that a worrying number of gamers have no right demanding realistic physics, seeing as they don't even know what that is. I laughed myself silly with some of the things people said... couple of highlights:

actually if ur strong enough u could pull yourself up by your shoe laces and therefore have lifted yourself up

believe me try and pull urself up off the ground by your shoe laces its possible, you really have to pull out and up for this to work, there is about half a second between when ur feet come off the ground and your ass hits the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHiLLaXen
what if you try pulling yourself or your shoe lace when your on the moon?

That's not really the same thing. That's the mass of your arms moving you upwards (It's the same thing on earth but the thing is that the gravity is too strong for you to lift off). On the moon, gravity is ligther, thus this would likely make you lift off of the ground and then gently land again.

The player has no momentum in this case, only the counterforce can lift you up. And counterforce only occurs if the object youre launching touches the ground.

Listen people, go read some physics textbooks, seriously. Also, I think it needs to be said that while HL2 has neat physics, it's a computer game, they don't always need to apply. In the case of the manipulator, what probably happens is the object is simply given a set velocity when you fire it, simple as that. No opposing forces, or momentum conservation, or any of that - they just aren't calculated because you don't *need* to. The only case where things like that apply are when objects collide, which is when these calculations kick in. The only "recoil" that people might perceive is just the result of a weapon animation, nothing more.

 

[aFireInside0016]

AHHH, I see, I'm an ass, sorry. And btw, you can use the Tau Gauss Cannon to launch yourself for a good long/high jump, just charge it up and shoot it at the ground.