utf new assault rifle/pistol critique

Choscura

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as something of a gun nut, i couldn't help but kind of chuckle as i looked at the new utf assault rifle: don't get me wrong, it looks damn sexy (in the same way that i find a barett m-82 a fine looking lady), but theres several stupid mistakes on it (hopefully whoever modelled this gun will read this):

http://www.halflife2.net/news//1102893193_utf-ar_beauty.jpg

first, and most important, there is no ejection on the gun. does it fire caseless ammo? if so, then thats not a problem: but if it doesn't, then it needs some place where the shell casing comes out, preferrably right above or above and in front of where the magazine goes in. a good way of marking this is with a cocking handle, which would be used to re-chamber a round after reloading, although such handles aren't immediately obvious on all guns (the hk-g3, for example, has one fairly far forward on the barrel that folds in to hide itself)

second, there are no ironsights on the gun. most modern guns- with a few exceptions- have ironsights that are kept for emergency use.

third, with the scope, you are missing one key elemnt: the adjustment knobs. these are two small knobs in the middle of the scope, typically one upright and one off to the side. you have *kind of* affected one on the top, but it would stick out more so you could grip it during combat and adjust for that long range shot you have to make. its easy to get away with something quick and bang-up, however, since these typically have screw on covers to protect them from the elements.

fourth, the scope is the wrong color, for one very important reason, which takes a bit of explaining. your eye is filled with two types of cells that recieve light: rods and cones. during the day, the cones are predominant, and are what allow you to see color. their vision spectrum focuses around green and yellow, making those colors easier to see during the day. at night, however, the rods take over, making it impossible to see something by looking directly AT it (you instead have to look off to one side, below or above). the rod spectrum focuses on the color of blue, and sees red only very weakly with a god deal more light than it would require to see any other color: this is why during midevil japan, some ninja used red cloaks and outfits instead of black ones, so the could remain invisible when not in the light and suddenly pop out in a bright color and give the impression of being supernatural to all onlookers. this principal is still in use today: navy seals in clandestine operations go out of there way to find some way of 'reddening' scopes, glasses, binoculars, etc so that the little light they do reflect is less likely to be seen. so, which would you choose? reddened? or blue and glowing?

now, onto the pistol.

http://www.halflife2.net/news//1102893193_utf-spec-sidearm.jpg

there are a couple things on this gun that would make gun users either tear out their hair in frustration, or laugh out loud just looking at it.

the first is the rail on top: a rail is used on an m-16 as a gun sight. its used this way to allow the gun to be adjustable to different heights. its used on the famas for the same reason, as well as the g-36. its not used on pistols for a very good reason: the cartridges in a pistol aren't powerful enough for a bullet to be accurate at the distances you would need to adjust the height of a sight for. another reason not to have it is because the top of a pistol moves when the gun is fired: it slides back from the inertia of the fired shell, spits out that fired shell, and chambers a new shell when fired forward. i'll give you a kudos for putting a way to get the old shell out- through the top- but i'm going to have to take it away again, since it is likely to bounce off that rail right above it, potentially falling back in and causing jamming.

second thing: the muzzle of the gun. in MOST automatic (non-revolver) handguns. there is a spring that goes under the barrel on the inside of the muzzle, to push the top forward again after its been knocked back by the shell, to help re-chamber a round. on the guns where this isn't the case, the spring goes on TOP of the barrel, and is essentially exactly the same but in reverse. even if the spring were shortened for this gun, there is no room anywhere to put it: the slick slanted lower muzzle (which i'll point out another mistake of in just a second) leaves no room for much of a barrel, much less a spring. putting it in the back of the gun is out: thats where the magazine is, as well as the trigger assembly.

third: again with the pointed muzzle: most modern military guns have a rail that goes on the underside of the muzzle, to hold anything from flashlights to laser sights, to- in rare cases that i've seen- red-dot scope mounts. some russian models also cary spare magazins, top down, and aimed slightly forward like a front handgrip on a submachine gun. the laser sight on the top of this gun should, in many cases, be located down here: this is the general rule of thumb. however, there are many other places laser sights can be mounted: in the handgrip facing forward, bolted to the trigger guard, or even in the spring housing assembly: but i've never seen a laser mounted on the top of a gun. even with assault rifles, the laser target designators are located on the sides.

fourth- the magazine. there are two points on this i think need to be made. the first is that the magazine doesn't magically stay inside the gun when slid inside, there is usually a small knob or a plate that has been welded on to 'catch' with some type of spring loaded trigger release. the second is that on the sides of the magazine, there are two 'wings' sticking up like a capital 'A' that doesn't meet: these funnel the shells into a single file line from a double one, so that the gun only tries to load one at a time. in addition to these 'wings' there is a slight groove behind the bullets so that the bolt assembly can catch them and slide them out of the magazine into the chamber to be fired.

thats all that was immediately obvious, i hope this helps, post any questions you have and i'll clarify as best i can.
 
I think you're taking it all a bit too seriously, I think most of the "mistakes" could be explained away by the fact the mod's set in the future and things have moved on a bit from springs, cocking handles and wings that hold magazines in. Everyone knows twiddling knobs to adjust scopes was phased out in 2068. Iron sights? Noones used them since we colonised Mars etc.
 
I agree with BigDaz. For the most part, people really don't care if the guns are accurately modelled, as long as they make a loud noise and kill people.
 
Threads like this make baby Jesus cry. I've said it before and I'll say it again - I never want to know this much about guns.

It's freaky.
 
all i'm trying to do is help a bit. i can only speak for myself on this, but i prefer realism and plausability to the 'duh duh duh, its the future, nobody uses that anymore, duh duh duh' explanation. if you've got a way of explaining it (magnets instead of springs on the pistol, for example: i honestly like the look of that gun) then please explain it instead of just using the same bullshit response like a trekky on crack. even WITH an integral scope instead of ironsights, it should be mounted directly on the barrel (meaning, some kind of screw or bolt where the rear part of the charging handle connects. if you want a reference for a real-life counterpart to this gun, i suggest looking at the TAR-21 assault rifle, developed by IMI in the early ninetees (http://world.guns***/assault/as30-e.htm) or possibly the famas (http://world.guns***/assault/as21-e.htm) or L-85AR (http://world.guns***/assault/as22-e.htm) or the G-36 (http://world.guns***/assault/as14-e.htm). if you want a 'future gun', and these are purely functional only and look like hell, i have two suggestions: (http://world.guns***/assault/as42-e.htm), and (http://world.guns***/assault/as56-e.htm).

as for the pistols, look at some of these:
(http://world.guns***/handguns/hg15-e.htm)
(http://world.guns***/handguns/hg11-e.htm)
(http://world.guns***/handguns/hg55-e.htm)
(http://world.guns***/handguns/hg44-e.htm)
(http://world.guns***/handguns/hg16-e.htm)

hope this helps.
 
duh duh duh, its the future, nobody uses that anymore, duh duh duh

Thankyou for being so arrogant and condescending.
 
This is why gun people scare me.

i prefer realism and plausability to the 'duh duh duh, its the future, nobody uses that anymore, duh duh duh' explanation. if you've got a way of explaining it (magnets instead of springs on the pistol <snip>) then please explain it instead of just using the same bullshit response like a trekky on crack
Explanation: Magna Tranfizzums (first developed in 2022). I think the explanation of it being from the future works here...
 
Its a good thing hes a video game designer and not a gun designer then, huh?
 
Point 1 - I think it might be caseless somehow. The weapons in this mod are designed for use on large capital ships. do they want a few thousand brass cases rolling on the ground with no-where to go? Nor would I.

Point 2 - Yes, you have hit the nail on the head. Most modern guns. So not, in fact, all. Thus it is quite likley that once a site has a proven record that is more reliable than iron sights, they would replace them with it.

Point 3 - See this:
oicwtree.jpg

Its the most advanced scope in current development as far as I know. See the two dials on there? No, nor do I. Computer controlled baby. Oh and given that the caps ships have no day/night cycle, there would be little call for red scopes in a full light enviroment.



On the pistol:
Point 1 - I rather suspect the weapon designers though of this and put a 45 degree ejection angle on, to miss the rail, dont you? And the rail itself, is rather handy if you lose gravity and need to make a grap at a floating weapon.

Point 2 - You may have noticed a semblance to the P99 with this model. Funnily enough it manages to return its slide quite happily, else there would be quite a few dead James Bonds by now.

Point 3 - So your saying that the lazer pointer being on the bottom in the past means it should be in the future. But wait:
p99top.jpg

Omfg, wtf, its a current modern pistol with a top mounted rail!!!11onezonez :rolleyes:

Point 4 - Perhaps an internal reducer? OMFG!!!

Rather than winge about others work, why not make some yourself. We might even take you seriously then. rofl, j/k. We wouldn't...
 
Link, I seriously want to sex you up.


On the OICW, however, this is the angle you wanted:

http://world.guns***/assault/oicw1.jpg

Those are the on off and lighting controls on the scope there.

The fire control computer actually takes it's commands from buttons on the trigger guard, making it easier to access.

If I'm not mistaken.
 
I was unclear, my fault. The two dials that Choscura was refering to were the windage and elevation. These allow the crosshair on a scope to be adjusted my minute levels to place the crosshair where the bullet will go. My point was that the OICW does not have them, instead it has a "camera" scope, where the view is adjusted via buttons and internal electronics etc, rather than the dials, which are basically a gear and lever setup. As such, its resonable to assume the rifle he was talking about would be similar, given that it is based sometime after the OICW would be obsolete...

I would let you "sex me up" but as I am not sure what that means, I will pass. :D
 
lol.....you know what's really, really, really uber-realistic?..........REAL LIFE!!!!!
 
cereal said:
Jesus Christ...who cares???

lol i read three or four lines of the original post, then was gonna say the exact same thing.

Its a game, enjoy it.
 
I can't believe the topic starter took the time to write such a long post about weapons he can't even hold or test fire.

It's a game, if they look good killing people mission accomplished.
 
They do look very cool.. I'd love to mess around with them in a game
 
if you wanted whoever made the gun to read it, why didn't you post on the ES2 site?

whatever, I agree with teh Link. he posted what I was gonna.
 
Hmmm does everyone get a realism feel from our mod?

I mean I thought our art was damn fine, but comparing everything we do to how real-life counterparts would handle?

There was actually a 2-3 page discussion on our forum about how CD's in the hacking device is unrealistic and how much data it could hold (I think they were estimating in the terabytes or something) and it got crazy.

Thank you for taking the time to critique or work though, we appreciate it :)

Oh and to all of you who want to mess around, hopefully we can get you in-game screenshots in our new map soon with our weapons in-game (including the new UTF AR)

Thank you for supporting our mod!

~Iced_Eagle
PR/QA

Oh and the ModDB Golden Spanner award is coming to a close soon. If you guys could, we would greatly appreciate it if everyone could vote for us as the Best Upcoming Mod. You must signup, but ModDB is fast and easy, plus then you could always ModWatch any of your favorite mods so you get notified when they update their profile.

Our mod profile is number 1939 or click mods.moddb.com/1939/
 
hm, it only needs one adjustment knob because windage does not apply to spaceships, as there is no wind...
 
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