Valve > Pirates

[Pjotr]

Apparently, 20,000+ accounts are being disabled. That's quite a bit.

Really? I've created 5 accounts so far, my gaming account and four different servers. A hacker could sit and create accounts all day if he needed to. In this case most accounts were accounts with no registered game at all, clearly accounts created to tap the Steam protocol and try to hack it.

 

[Parrot of doom]

Heh, good one Valve

 

[conquistador69]

I find it incomprehensible how anyone can think that piracy can be stopped 100% with technology. They have been trying to do exactly that ever since there has been technology to duplicate information--I mean, back to the invention of the printing press. How's the current score anti-piracy score card? A big fat "F". Doom 3 was cracked and available days before its retail date. The Sims 2 took 2 days after release to unlock (by fooling the protection rather than cracking it). Half-Life 2 took about as long to fiddle with and repack, in order to leave Steam behind completely. In fact, if you know where to look, you'll find every new popular title available and actively getting downloaded by the hundreds, or thousands.

So, why are we putting up with things like Steam again? What purpose does it serve, other than to make paying customers' lives more difficult?

 

[Absinthe]

So, why are we putting up with things like Steam again? What purpose does it serve, other than to make paying customers' lives more difficult?

That's like saying that some people can get away with murder, so we might as well do away with laws against it.

I don't think anybody is naive enough to believe that piracy can be stopped once and for all. But there are still going to be security measures against it because fewer people pirating it is better than more people pirating.

 

[The Mullinator]

I find it incomprehensible how anyone can think that piracy can be stopped 100% with technology. They have been trying to do exactly that ever since there has been technology to duplicate information--I mean, back to the invention of the printing press. How's the current score anti-piracy score card? A big fat "F". Doom 3 was cracked and available days before its retail date. The Sims 2 took 2 days after release to unlock (by fooling the protection rather than cracking it). Half-Life 2 took about as long to fiddle with and repack, in order to leave Steam behind completely. In fact, if you know where to look, you'll find every new popular title available and actively getting downloaded by the hundreds, or thousands.

So, why are we putting up with things like Steam again? What purpose does it serve, other than to make paying customers' lives more difficult?

Nothing is ever meant to stop piracy 100%, if you think that is what they designed them for then you need to do some research yourself. They are meant to limit piracy, they are meant to stop as many people as possible from pirating. HL2 will probably be one of the least pirated games out there (if you go by pirated vesrions / number of copies sold) all thanks to Steam. If companies didn't bother with any anti-pirating measures then people would simply copy the game to their hearts content and the world would end up with a situation like they have in China where there really aren't any legitimate copies of software sold at all.

Steam is just the step up after CD-keys and the fact is for what I suspect is for most people Steam has not caused many problems for the end users. I personally havn't experienced any problems with it aside from things like the stutter bug which is a bug that could happen to any game despite anti-piracy measures.

 

[conquistador69]

That's like saying that some people can get away with murder, so we might as well do away with laws against it.

No, not even close. The argument for Steam is more like saying that some people can get away with murder, so we should assume everyone is a murderer, and lock them up. Throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

[Varsity]

No, not even close. The argument for Steam is more like saying that some people can get away with murder, so we should assume everyone is a murderer, and lock them up. Throw out the baby with the bath water.

Have you not wondered why the police keep a record of everyone's personal information? Welcome to the real world.

 

[Absinthe]

No, not even close. The argument for Steam is more like saying that some people can get away with murder, so we should assume everyone is a murderer, and lock them up. Throw out the baby with the bath water.

And how exactly are you being locked up if you aren't doing anything you aren't supposed to?

 

[legalbeagle]

There has been some debate as to whether downloading pirating software is or is not "theft" and whether it is "just breach of copyright". I have some comments from a UK perspective.

The discussion does not take into account the fact that there are many criminal offences other than "theft" in its technical sense. From the top of my head, one such act is distributing intellectual property non-commercially causing economic damage to the copyright owner. The penalty is jail time (up to two years, I think) and a fine.

There are also civil remedies (ie Valve could sue you), a successful action resulting in damages being paid (ie the amount of their loss as a consequence of your actions).

So, spreading pirated software is a criminal act (though not necessarily the criminal act of theft) capable of prosecution by the Crown Prosecution Service or by Valve. It is also an unlawful act, for which Valve can pursue the infringer for damages in civil proceedings. The criminal act is a dishonest infringement of copyright law that can be equated with the layman's term of theft.

On that basis, it would be accurate to describe software pirates as criminals, and in layman's terms, the criminal can be called a thief.

It is ridiculous to suggest that piracy causes no loss. If Valve wanted to distribute their software for free, so that people could try before they buy, they would release a demo or shareware version with a license for people to use it freely. Software pirates do not have the right to make that decision for Valve. The availability of a pirated version will undoubtedly affect sales of the software. If the pirate did not want the software, and did not want to play it, why should he then download and keep the pirated copy? If someone wants to play the game, he/she should buy it first, not afterwards.

I do not comment on whether the law is morally right: there are many disputes and suggestions on how the law could be improved. But it is true that as the law stands, piracy is illegal and unlawful.

As to EULAs, they have been upheld in the Adobe/Betamax case in Scotland, and though some of the reasoning can be criticised, could well be enforced in the UK.

 

[Hoonose]

There has been some debate as to whether downloading pirating software is or is not "theft" and whether it is "just breach of copyright". I have some comments from a UK perspective.

The discussion does not take into account the fact that there are many criminal offences other than "theft" in its technical sense. From the top of my head, one such act is distributing intellectual property non-commercially causing economic damage to the copyright owner. The penalty is jail time (up to two years, I think) and a fine.

There are also civil remedies (ie Valve could sue you), a successful action resulting in damages being paid (ie the amount of their loss as a consequence of your actions).

So, spreading pirated software is a criminal act (though not necessarily the criminal act of theft) capable of prosecution by the Crown Prosecution Service or by Valve. It is also an unlawful act, for which Valve can pursue the infringer for damages in civil proceedings. The criminal act is a dishonest infringement of copyright law that can be equated with the layman's term of theft.

On that basis, it would be accurate to describe software pirates as criminals, and in layman's terms, the criminal can be called a thief.

It is ridiculous to suggest that piracy causes no loss. If Valve wanted to distribute their software for free, so that people could try before they buy, they would release a demo or shareware version with a license for people to use it freely. Software pirates do not have the right to make that decision for Valve. The availability of a pirated version will undoubtedly affect sales of the software. If the pirate did not want the software, and did not want to play it, why should he then download and keep the pirated copy? If someone wants to play the game, he/she should buy it first, not afterwards.

I do not comment on whether the law is morally right: there are many disputes and suggestions on how the law could be improved. But it is true that as the law stands, piracy is illegal and unlawful.

As to EULAs, they have been upheld in the Adobe/Betamax case in Scotland, and though some of the reasoning can be criticised, could well be enforced in the UK.

There's NOTHING new you're saying. And, little to disagree with.
The problem, as I see it, is the NEW way of distribution.
Maybe not THIS time, but, what if NEXT time, you need to register with your credit card number?
Then, you find out, that every few months, a new mod comes out, and money is automatically deducted from your account for the new mod? You look in the agreements and find that you've signed up for this service, unknowingly. (like alot of junk offers in the mail, you get something free for one month, then it costs)
I just don't like the direction this Steam is taking us. They COULD demand more from us, than we would normally want give up, to buy the game. Maybe it's too 'Big Brother" for me. No one else has done it before, as far as I know, to sell games, or whatever. I personally hope it fails. I liked the old way better. Of course I'm a consumer, not a seller. I think it EXTREMELY unlikely that Valve wouldn't have prospered magificently, using the usual distribution channels. But, I think they'll lose plenty of fans this way. And, they also throw down a gauntlet, challenging hackers, who will consider this the BEST in challenges!

 

[conquistador69]

I'm glad to see legal specifics. I never said that piracy was not a criminal act, and I explicitly said that it is wrong. The point I (and others) try to make is that it is far less wrong than outright theft. This is a moral judgement, not a legal one. Any country's legislative bodies can decide that spitting on the sidewalk is heinous enough to deprive you of your liberty, as long as it does not run afoul of the country's charter or constitution. (E.g., that would not fly in the USA, because of the constitutional provision against cruel and unusual punishment. Hmm. I would argue that jailing someone for a few clicks on an internet browser is cruel and unusual; but I am not a lawyer.)

 

[SoheilsX]

You guys are f'in morons, there are 18 different versions out, 15 of which dont even require steam to be installed on your machine. Valve caught 20k useless accounts, but missed just over 300k.

Bittorrent alone takes up over 34% of the worlds internet traffic, and piracy is at an all time high. No one, no company in the world can stop pirates from redistributing software.

I support valve and I actually bought this game, but to believe this is just idiotic. Pirating will NEVER stop.

Listen, somebody said that valve can stop us? Thats right, US, and no they cant. Let me tell you, how many people bought halflife 2? How many pirated it? I can tell you, the second number is bigger, MUCH bigger. Valve stopped 20k of USELESS ACCOUNTS, ACCOUNTS PEOPLE MADE JUST TO ENABLE THE PIRATED VERSION, there was nothing to lose, just make a new one and try again. Besides, the version I HAVE, THATS RIGHT, THE VERSION I HAVE DOESNT EVEN REQUIRE STEAM TO BE INSTALLED ON YOUR MACHINE. I just bought a copy for CS:S, but haha, i got hl2 working before people who bought it did.

You people think that pirating of software can be stopped, but it can't. The people on here so aggravated and hating of pirates are SIMPLY PISSED OFF AND JEALOUS OF THE FACT THAT WE GET SHIT YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR, FOR FREE.

Face it, i have saved myself a shitload of money, but dont think i still dont buy the games i like.

 

[Pjotr]

Valve stopped 20k of USELESS ACCOUNTS, ACCOUNTS PEOPLE MADE JUST TO ENABLE THE PIRATED VERSION, there was nothing to lose, just make a new one and try again.

If you cared to read the press release, it states accounts were used for credit card fraud, among other things. You think they should be allowed to hack into honest buyers credit cards and use those numbers to steal their money?

 

[SoheilsX]

IF you were to read around abit yourself, you would see that those people, whos accounts were targeted, were targeted due to a group that i would rather not name, aiming at stealing accounts in order to have a near unlimited set of packets. Valve may not have mentioned the MAJORITY of these bought off of steam, and so the download and verification packets could have been downloaded, captured, and read by the group, so as to better understand the verification process allowing for people to bypass the system easier by setting up a spoof verification server.


Edit: just because they COULD commit credit card fraud, they wouldnt want to. See, the ironic thing is that the pirating community is the most honourable community i know of. People actually CARE about their reputations, as do the groups, being busted for committing credit card fraud would be stupid, and there is no need for them to take those risks.


Valve has you fanboys fooled, just because i could hijack a plane if i get on it, doesnt mean i will.

 

[johnadaniels]

Not paying for software is wrong.


That does not change the fact that Steam SUCKS for retail buyers! :flame:

 

[indy]

i cant belive how some people just freak out about warez when it doesnt affect them at all.

boo hoo you got warez so im gonna go run and tell someone or attack you outright!

listen people warez have been around since software and it will continue to be around untill software itself dies.

Now that being said how many software companies are suffering from it?

none... they still make tons of money after all these years of being warezed.

btw you cant tell me that you paid for eevey piece of software on your PC... have you registered your winzip after the 30 day trial? ...yeah sure u did.

 

[Top Secret]

I just love how warez people try to justify themselves. But I have a question:

If it's true that we freak out too much over piracy, and that it's not that big of an issue, then why do pirates defend it so zealously? Why do they try to constantly justify it to themselves and us? Why do they think that everyone is jealous of them? Do they not realise that 80% of the people here could attain a steam-free warezed version of Half-Life 2 if they chose to? It's really not that hard. But, it is wrong. Valve provided a service, which I like, so I'm going to pay for it. I'll admit it, I used to pirate games all the time. And then, sometime around 6-8 months ago, it dawned on me: It's not right. Maybe someday these pirates will see the same thing I did. Maybe they won't. Either way, they're scum.

*Edit*

I'm not though, I went back and bought all the games I pirated @ www.pricegrabber.com :thumbs: (Medievil:Total War, Zeus, Painkiller, UT2K4, and Max Payne 2. And to tell the truth, I still play them today. Awesome games.)

 

[miked4o7]

Now that being said how many software companies are suffering from it?

none...

Ummm, every company suffers for it. In fact, can you name a single company that hasn't suffered in sales and profits because of piracy? Legally, it may not technically be the same as physical theft, but it has the same effect as theft on the companies and for yourself. Think about this... a company spends money to make a product that they want to sell to you. You obtain that product without paying for it. That company receives no money for the product that you are now using.

How is that different from theft when it all boils down to it? And just as retail stores hike their prices to make up for lost profits from theft, software companies hike their prices to make up for lost profits from piracy. This is how the world works... welcome.

 

[SoheilsX]

We dont defend it, we rub it in your faces, you chumps dish out 50x what it costs to produce each copy.

It may be a bit different, but lets say steam sells 1 million copies of hl2 at 80 bucks for a package better than base. Lets say steam gets them 60 of that 80 bucks. Thats still 60 million income right there. HL2 being a HUGE project cost about 40 million to make, abotu a million a month or so. So, you guys have just dished out much much more that it takes them to make it, and even if the game costs 50 instead of 80, in the end software and gaming to be more precise is rediculously overpriced.

In the end, guess who wins? We do, the pirates, and so do the companies who produce the software we "steal". The only people who lose are those of you who actually pay for the stuff.

But hey, i'm not complaining, whatever keeps the companies motivated to keep producing stuff for us to steal, is fine with me

 

[indy]

love how i get labled as a pirate.

lol @ ignorant people.

go join the riaa u nazi's

i dont endorse warez but im realistic about it... my point simply is not to freak out so much about other peoples problems.

its like going around your neighbourhood doing citicens arests?

 

[SoheilsX]

Ummm, every company suffers for it. In fact, can you name a single company that hasn't suffered in sales and profits because of piracy? Legally, it may not technically be the same as physical theft, but it has the same effect as theft on the companies and for yourself. Think about this... a company spends money to make a product that they want to sell to you. You obtain that product without paying for it. That company receives no money for the product that you are now using.

How is that different from theft when it all boils down to it? And just as retail stores hike their prices to make up for lost profits from theft, software companies hike their prices to make up for lost profits from piracy. This is how the world works... welcome.

By the way, lemme tell you idiots something. When you see stuff liek "SO AND SO COMPANY IS LOSING BLAH BLAH MILLION FROM PIRACY", its BS, because, its digital media sent around for free, between people who WOULDNT BUY THE GAME BECAUSE FOR SOME REASON THEY CAN'T, its only a TINY minority of people who can actually buy the games they pirate, but wont.

 

[miked4o7]

By the way, lemme tell you idiots something. When you see stuff liek "SO AND SO COMPANY IS LOSING BLAH BLAH MILLION FROM PIRACY", its BS, because, its digital media sent around for free, between people who WOULDNT BUY THE GAME BECAUSE FOR SOME REASON THEY CAN'T, its only a TINY minority of people who can actually buy the games they pirate, but wont.

Oh ok... I missed the Gallup poll on that one.

 

[HunterSeeker]

(Justification of piracy)

It is called making profit, every company does! Did you know that car manufacturers are capable of making cars that lasts 5 times as long as they do today? But they dont becouse it is not profitable.

HL2 cost me around 500 swedish kronor, gave me ab out 20 hours of fun on my first run through. I could go to the cinema 5 times for that price, it would give me maybe 10 hours of fun. And guess what? I am replaying HL2 has gotten a good amount of fun from CS:S and I am not even counting the mods that will come out, in the end I suspect it will just cost me less then 1 swedish crown per hour of fun I got from HL2.

When I look upon software pirates I look upon yet another who represents the selfishness of humanity.

 

[Top Secret]

love how i get labled as a pirate.

lol @ ignorant people.

go join the riaa u nazi's

i dont endorse warez but im realistic about it... my point simply is not to freak out so much about other peoples problems.

its like going around your neighbourhood doing citicens arests?

This is more of what I'm talking about. I think he's getting off on being 'comfortable with piracy'. You just put yourself in the front by saying you have been labeled as a pirate. And then you call us ignorant? Get your dumb shit face out of here.

 

[Prone]

By the way, lemme tell you idiots something. When you see stuff liek "SO AND SO COMPANY IS LOSING BLAH BLAH MILLION FROM PIRACY", its BS, because, its digital media sent around for free, between people who WOULDNT BUY THE GAME BECAUSE FOR SOME REASON THEY CAN'T, its only a TINY minority of people who can actually buy the games they pirate, but wont.

I thought you knew something about the scene. But after that sentences I knew you are just a wanna-be. Don't talk about a scene you know nothing about and go play with yourself. I've interviewed most of the groups and what you put out is utter BS.

Only thing what you said that was right was the honour in the scene, that is very good (not in the movies scene though).

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

Yet.

Yes, they are going to track down anyone who did that and pie them in the face

i'm glad I bought mine legit, dont want to have Valve's personal warez assault squad on my ass. Games will always be stolen, Valve is not some sort-of demi-god who can end all warez. Pirates will always be one step ahead, it's how things are. Unless they started policing the internet like the streets.. and still you couldent end it. Valve is not magical and are not going to end warez :|

 

[Fallout2man]

Ummm, every company suffers for it. In fact, can you name a single company that hasn't suffered in sales and profits because of piracy? Legally, it may not technically be the same as physical theft, but it has the same effect as theft on the companies and for yourself. Think about this... a company spends money to make a product that they want to sell to you. You obtain that product without paying for it. That company receives no money for the product that you are now using.

How is that different from theft when it all boils down to it? And just as retail stores hike their prices to make up for lost profits from theft, software companies hike their prices to make up for lost profits from piracy. This is how the world works... welcome.

Actually, you can't name any companies that "suffer" due to piracy, and you know why? Downloads do not equal lost sales. This is something I stressed before and I'll stress again. Piracy is an assumed loss, they assume a download is a lost sale and that it "hurts" them. They assume it hurts because they assume everyone who downloaded a copy would line up single file jumping to hand them their money were the pirate copy not available.

This is obviously not the case and rather laughable, especially since some pirates do buy games as well. It is different because theft, or larceny, is an actual loss. Piracy is an assumed loss. Piracy's illegality isn't that they "took" something, it's in that they violated the government granted idea-monopoly owned by the IP owner, to control and distribute their content as they see fit.

They violated their right to control copying, they did not "take" anything of tangible value. If I steal a TV, it's gone, the store can never sell that TV. If I download a piece of music or software, nothing's stoppping someone else from buying it.

 

[miked4o7]

Actually, you can't name any companies that "suffer" due to piracy, and you know why? Downloads do not equal lost sales. This is something I stressed before and I'll stress again. Piracy is an assumed loss, they assume a download is a lost sale and that it "hurts" them. They assume it hurts because they assume everyone who downloaded a copy would line up single file jumping to hand them their money were the pirate copy not available.

This is obviously not the case and rather laughable, especially since some pirates do buy games as well. It is different because theft, or larceny, is an actual loss. Piracy is an assumed loss. Piracy's illegality isn't that they "took" something, it's in that they violated the government granted idea-monopoly owned by the IP owner, to control and distribute their content as they see fit.

They violated their right to control copying, they did not "take" anything of tangible value. If I steal a TV, it's gone, the store can never sell that TV. If I download a piece of music or software, nothing's stoppping someone else from buying it.

Yes, some people who pirate games also buy the games they pirate... and yes, some people who pirate games definitely would not have bought the game otherwise... but even with those people (which you have no way of telling me what percentage they make up, so don't pretend you know what kind of fraction it actually is) ... it is still undeniably true that some people would be buy the game instead of pirating it if pirating was not an option. This is so blatantly obvious that I don't think it needs to be elaborated upon further. So yes, companies are hurt by pirating... not just by the lost sales, but by the money they spend trying to prevent piracy. Obviously anybody who knows what they're doing or where to look can easily get by most of that, but it does stop your average joe schmoe from just burning 100 copies of the game flat out and giving them out at school or work.

 

[conquistador69]

I thought you knew something about the scene. But after that sentences I knew you are just a wanna-be . . .

No, actually he has a good point. He just didn't make it very well. What he means is that software companies will take the statistics on how many copies of their software were pirated, multiply by some retail-price number, and arrive at a huge figure of what they allegedly have lost. This, of course, is sheer nonsense. Does any one of you really believe that some kid who pirated hundreds of games in his parents' home could have possibly purchased even a fraction of those? Money is a scarce resource. There simply isn't enough in the pockets of the pirates to take a nibble out of the hugely over-bloated figures the software industry says it loses in sales to piracy.

 

[Absinthe]

Blahblahblahblahblahblahgamesareoverpricedblahblahblahblahblahimatheifblahblahblahblahblah...

Of course game prices cost more than production costs. You know why? These people DO need to make a profit. Furthermore, warezing software can be attributed to price rises. After all, if many people are downloading your work for free, you're going to bump up your prices in order to offset those losses.
You're complaining about the prices, but you're only contributing to the problem.

 

[indy]

This is more of what I'm talking about. I think he's getting off on being 'comfortable with piracy'. You just put yourself in the front by saying you have been labeled as a pirate. And then you call us ignorant? Get your dumb shit face out of here.

nice reply!
so intellegent and full of good points.

i especialy like the name calling part. it just adds that special something.

allow me to retort.

my argument was about how some people over react and try to police others who even mention warez.

to which you cleverly replied .. "Get your dumb shit face out of here". Wow thats just an impressive argument right there. gonna be tough to beat that one. I mean the sheer brilliance and relevance to the topic! WOW.

but i digress, It still doesnt change the fact that
1 "im right"
2 "your one of the people i mentioned and this offends you".
and 3 i could realy care less about your ignorant biased one sided opinion.

ill say this again and leave it at that.
"I dont support warez".

but that doesnt meant that im gonna nazi people who do.

 

[Odysseus]

Do they not realise that 80% of the people here could attain a steam-free warezed version of Half-Life 2 if they chose to? It's really not that hard.

I'll admit it, I used to pirate games all the time. And then, sometime around 6-8 months ago, it dawned on me: It's not right. Maybe someday these pirates will see the same thing I did. Maybe they won't. Either way, they're scum.

I think you are upset b/c, not being able to pirate this game, you ended up paying for it !!!

 

[Absinthe]

Also, I'd like to say that the "I warezed the game, but I'll buy it later" argument does not fly. Granted, some people will do this, but there is no assurance of it. Just like some people will purchase it later, some people won't. Some people will say "Hey, I've already got HL2 on my PC! Why bother paying?", whereas others will have had no intention of buying it in the first place.

Does Valve assume that people that those who warez their games are of the latter two? Yes, they do. They ban your account if your copy of the game isn't a legal one, regardless of your intentions. But you knew very well what would happen if they caught you, and Valve isn't going to risk losing money for people that will buy Half-Life 2 any way.

If you want to try before you buy, then you wait for a demo or play it on a friend's machine. If you're downloading it because you lack the money to buy it, then tough shit. You can wait and save up your money just like everybody else does.

 

[Absinthe]

i especialy like the name calling part. it just adds that special something.

Didn't you just call a bunch of people Nazis?

 

[Absinthe]

I think you are upset b/c, not being able to pirate this game, you ended up paying for it !!!

How many people would actually be unable to pirate this game? I knew I'd certainly be able to. But I made a conscious decision to purchase the game because I want to support Valve and because I like owning a legal copy that is rightfully my own.

I couldn't give a monkey's **** if other people warezed the game. But it pisses me off when these people convince themselves that their actions aren't hurting the industry.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

If people have downloaded the game to play it, what's the incentive for them to buy it afterwards? If they had any respect for the developer, they would have paid for it in the first place. People just use that as a lame attempt at justifying their piracy.

Please, grow a pair. If you're going to rip a company off by stealing their game, at least have the balls to outright admit it.

 

[Fighter]

I did not read all posts, but I will just say that HL2 was available the next day from pirates in Russia. No steam requirement or any kind of online authentication. I will just say that valve was succesfull in preventing a pre-release leak of the full version. They did not however pwne pirates in any other way.

Which only make me question the whole steam situation making life more difficult for people that bought the game legally.

 

[SoheilsX]

I think you are upset b/c, not being able to pirate this game, you ended up paying for it !!!

Quoted for incredible truth.

 

[SoheilsX]

Of course game prices cost more than production costs. You know why? These people DO need to make a profit. Furthermore, warezing software can be attributed to price rises. After all, if many people are downloading your work for free, you're going to bump up your prices in order to offset those losses.
You're complaining about the prices, but you're only contributing to the problem.

no shit sherlock, what i'm saying is that that is the main reason for piracy. If games cost about 10-20 less than they do now, companies would probably still make big profits, and less piracy would occur.


But in the end, piracy will always exist.

 

[Absinthe]

Quoted for incredible truth.

Don't tell me you actually believe that crap?

no shit sherlock, what i'm saying is that that is the main reason for piracy. If games cost about 10-20 less than they do now, companies would probably still make big profits, and less piracy would occur.

While that is possible, many publishers are not going to be willing to take that kind of risk. Companies like Vivendi are not going to reduce their prices when everything isn't so dandy with their financial situation.

In my experience with piracy, people are not warezing their games because the games cost too much money, but just because they cost money. Period.

But in the end, piracy will always exist.

So will war. And famine. And disease. But we should still try to prevent them.