Valve taking legal action against cheating?

[Crusader]

Hmm, my mod must be illegal, i edited the source code

Anywhos, generally they don't edit the source code as you're thinking, since the dlls are checked every time you join a game to ensure they match the servers.

Instead they use "hooks" to attach outside code to the program without editing it.

 

[Dsty2001]

CS' source code is NOT on the internet. Nor is HL's, or any of those games.
The HL SDK is NOT the source code. It's simply the parts of it that are available to the public to modify the game to make mods.

That's why when HL2's source code got jacked it was such a big deal, that almost NEVER happens.

How are you so sure about that? Trust me, if you spent at least 20 minutes you could find the source code for almost every major Half-Life MOD out there.

 

[Dsty2001]

Hmm, my mod must be illegal, i edited the source code

Anywhos, generally they don't edit the source code as you're thinking, since the dlls are checked every time you join a game to ensure they match the servers.

Instead they use "hooks" to attach outside code to the program without editing it.

Well if that is true than Half-Life is different than the other games I've played. I have a friend that creates cheats all the time ( And yes, I cuss him out about it all the time ) and he modifys the source code.

 

[Crusader]

Also, what Shuzer says is true. They don't just hand out the full source for the engine functions and so on. Nobody makes a mod by recompiling a hl.exe, that code remains constant.

All you can change are the dlls, including the game-rules classes etc. The renderer and rest of the engine are untouchable.

but then cheats don't edit those dlls either, otherwise they'd have differing dlls.

DSTY: Source code for every major HL mod?

All those MODs would have the same engine code, because none of them have edited the engine in any way, because that's not what you do to make a mod ^^

 

[Shuzer]

How are you so sure about that? Trust me, if you spent at least 20 minutes you could find the source code for almost every major Half-Life MOD out there.

I'd love for you to prove me wrong about it, as I said. Please, feel free to PM me and show me :cheers:

 

[SMT]

Shuzer, Dsty, be friends.

The source code for CS is not readily available. But cheat architects reverse engineer compiled code (i.e. game dll's and executables) to see how the source functions so they can circumvent it effectively. This is a blatant violation of the End User License Agreement, period.

 

[Shuzer]

Shuzer, Dsty, be friends.

The source code for CS is not readily available. But cheat architects reverse engineer compiled code (i.e. game dll's and executables) to see how the source functions so they can circumvent it effectively. This is a blatant violation of the End User License Agreement, period.

We're not fighting, we're debating. It's all in good fun, I'm sure neither of us are taking offense to eachother :cheers:

But yes, my main point was, they don't edit source code, or view the source code, to write cheats. If they had that, cheats would be unstoppable in HL/CS.

 

[Absinthe]

How are you so sure about that? Trust me, if you spent at least 20 minutes you could find the source code for almost every major Half-Life MOD out there.

The mods do not contain Half-Life's source code. There is a difference, trust me.

 

[Shuzer]

The mods do not contain Half-Life's source code. There is a difference, trust me.

He was referring to the code for the mods themselves. Though, I've never seen any of the major mods code floating around on the internet.

 

[Dsty2001]

Shuzer, STFU you jerk, I hate j000 :'(

J/K

 

[Sai]

dsty, judgeing on what your implying they would have to make a brand new source code every time someone makes a cheat for cs, now how much sense does that make?

EDIT: oh, you already "apologized", but wait; didn't you say you had a friend that makes cheats.....by messing with the source code....hehehehe, care to elaborate?

 

[Shuzer]

Shuzer, STFU you jerk, I hate j000 :'(

J/K

;( lol

Ah well, like I said, all in good fun

 

[Daiceman9]

Valve cant take any leagal action aginst cheaters besides taking away their game, it is a licence, meaning that it can be revoked if its points are broken. Lets say that in a EULA I put in that anyone aggreeing to it must pay me 1,000,000 dollars, now, if they dont pay it, i can't sue them but i can revoke their rights to use my program.

 

[Shuzer]

They're not taking legal action against cheaters, only cheat developers and distributors.

If that's what you meant, carry on.

 

[dassbaba]

finally. i want to make some 12 year olds cry.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Couldn't they also get them for "reverse engineering" it or something?

+doesn't know what he's talking about+

 

[OCybrManO]

You can reverse engineer the game all you want to learn from it (there is no way they could stop you even if they wanted to)... but the cheaters use that knowledge to make programs that purposefully alter the function of the game to give themselves an unfair advantage while on public game servers that people pay a nice chunk of change to run and operate (and they distribute them to thousands of people that have similar intentions). If I'm paying money to run a server (hypothetically speaking, since I don't do that) I don't want some assholes running around ruining the experience for everyone in the game, purposefully crashing the server, evading bans, giving my server a bad reputation, etc.

 

[ACLeroK212]

+doesn't know what he's talking about+

correct

 

[Coolhead2100]

You can reverse engineer the game all you want to learn from it (there is no way they could stop you even if they wanted to)... but the cheaters use that knowledge to make programs that purposefully alter the function of the game to give themselves an unfair advantage while on public game servers that people pay a nice chunk of change to run and operate (and they distribute them to thousands of people that have similar intentions). If I'm paying money to run a server (hypothetically speaking, since I don't do that) I don't want some assholes running around ruining the experience for everyone in the game, purposefully crashing the server, evading bans, giving my server a bad reputation, etc.

OCybrManO is right. Reverse engineering software is a direct violation of the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) And is a punishable offense.

Right from the DMCA agreement:

No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that -
(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;
(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or
(C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person's knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

 

[CoreyGH]

That portion of the DMCA refers to circumvention of encryption that "controls access to a work protected under this title." Nothing about the HL or CS dlls is encrypted. You don't have to break or circumvent any encryption in order for a cheat or mod to work (as far as I know). The DMCA doesn't apply here.

 

[Rupertvdb]

they'll get the cheaters right after they get all the file sharers... probably hype, i'll wait for someone to get busted before i take this seriosuly.

Not that i condone cheating, i think people that do should be hung up by their toes and beaten with wet reeds, but that's a separate issue.

 

[WillH]

lol WTF the DMCA just WON'T work in our favor will it?
Commie bastards. or actually Capitalist Pigs.

 

[alco]

I think if anything, Valve should go after piracy groups. Now there, they'd actually have a case, and they'd be attacking a much more important issue.

 

[john121]

quote: Granted, but does that allow for legal action? Ban them from Valve's servers, yes; disable their CDkeys, of course. But forcing someone to take down their website? Where is the basis for this?

the MPAA did this to the site www.2600.com for posting the program "decss" and then was charged to take the posting of websites that held the code to decss. So, 2600 did the next best thing and posted just the websites, no links. Then it got hairy cuz some browsers would link the website automatically, which wasn't 2600's fault. In the end, they took it to court and 2600 lost, unfortunately. they have every bit of info on this case at www.2600.com . (in case anyone is wondering, i am NOT a hacker, i just read news about it, and i do not support black hats in any way)

Also, I'm hoping that simply posting a website that has to do with hacking news i won't get kicked off this forum. I have/will not download or use the stolen version of half life 2 cuz why use something stolen? if a car was free but had no brakes, would you still use it? no...

 

[ferd]

It surprises me they actually found the real names of the ppl behind those sites. I mean, if it's that easy, why hasn't any other company sued those guys before?

 

[CoreyGH]

the MPAA did this to the site www.2600.com for posting the program "decss" and then was charged to take the posting of websites that held the code to decss. So, 2600 did the next best thing and posted just the websites, no links. Then it got hairy cuz some browsers would link the website automatically, which wasn't 2600's fault. In the end, they took it to court and 2600 lost, unfortunately. they have every bit of info on this case at www.2600.com . (in case anyone is wondering, i am NOT a hacker, i just read news about it, and i do not support black hats in any way)

Except that decss was an illegal circumvention of an encryption that was protecting a copyrighted work, which is a violation of law (the DMCA). Cheating is not illegal. Everyone here seems to keep forgetting that just because something royally sucks doesn't automatically make it illegal.

 

[SubKamran]

Down with the stupid cheaters.