Valve to Evaluate Episodic Approach

[-smash-]

Banging out an episode per year may not be what most gamers call "episodic." Is Valve going to make sure that Episode Three will make it within that time span after Episode Two's release? Talking to CVG, Gabe Newell said that after the trilogy is completed, they will look to gamers for opinions on the episodic approach.

"I think what we really want to do is have a couple of examples out there - Episode One, and how long it was to play and how long it took to develop, Episode Two, Portal and TF2 and then the third part of the trilogy; and then sit down with the community and say, 'OK, so what do you want?'" Gabe said in an interview soon to appear on CVG. "'Do you want us to do more episodes? Do you want us to really tighten down the time frames and look at the scope of what we're doing so that that's possible, for us to go back to the large monolithic projects?'"

Some will argue that the time span between episodes isn't their only concern. That new content, such as weapons and enemies (story, too), are not introduced at a much grander scale like it would in a full-release title, thus making the experience of an episode less epic - This varies by opinion, of course. Gabe also stated that he is interested in communicating with development companies such as Telltale Games, the makers of the Sam & Max episodes, to gain some insight into their episodic approach.

CVG will soon be releasing their full interview with Gabe Newell within the coming days.

 

[bigdeezy23]

I think Valve should work on an entirely new game in an entirely new universe. Forget this episodic stuff, it's clearly too difficult to implement unless they hire way more people. It's slow as hell and the content is still only on par with a good expansion pack. We're waiting too long for these "episodes".

 

[fri][ish]

All I want: Half Life 3 on Source 2 (a real 'Source 2' too, not just 'Source++')

 

[Xendance]

I wouldn't cope in an entirely new universe

 

[gusIII]

As long as it takes less than 6 years im fine. There's NO excuse for working this slow as they are doing with the episodes. And i don't want to hear about they are polishing it, making it perfect and blbalbalbbl, work faster!

 

[-Psy-]

The Source engine is really holding them back.

 

[Beerdude26]

I like it how people think they can pull a 6-hour game out of their anus and sell it for twenty bucks and still have people happy with it.

Making games is hard. Stop thinking that it's as easy as slapping your penis on a piece of paper.

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

I like the Half-Life 2 Episode's, but I miss monlithic releases. I want to see a Half-Life game that breaks the barrier in terms of graphics and innovation.

 

[Asknoone]

I want Episodic to keep going; the Episodes themselves are far exceeding most games on the market in terms of quality, and I expect Episode 2 to keep pushing the envelope in terms of interesting gameplay. Essentially, we are getting releases faster - it's an undeniable fact. Arguably, this isn't actual episodic releases though, is it? They are more like 'small games'. True episodic would be a longer set of episodes in a shorter time period. It'd be interesting to see that tackled, but it'd mean the episodes themselves would be more around the length of Episode 1.

As it is, though, I prefer the smaller, 6-8 hour content and would like to see it continue in the Half-life universe after the trilogy. It's just more interesting than a big release I'll blow through in a few days.

There's NO excuse for working this slow as they are doing with the episodes. And i don't want to hear about they are polishing it, making it perfect and blbalbalbbl, work faster!

You're dumb.

 

[Polaris]

As long as it takes less than 6 years im fine. There's NO excuse for working this slow as they are doing with the episodes. And i don't want to hear about they are polishing it, making it perfect and blbalbalbbl, work faster!

Half-Life is not expansion for Sims, you idiot!

I like idea of episodic approach and also new games like Portal.

 

[leib10]

Episodes are a great way to keep the fans happy and begging for more because they can be done in a much shorter time and, in the case of Episode One and probably Episode Two, will leave the fans wanting more.

Yet episodes tend to be unable to keep the pace with new technology and innovations since 1.) it takes too long to integrate these factors into a game that's expected in about a year and a half and 2.) there would be a great disparity between the episodes on opposite ends (ie, Episode Three would look pretty different from Episode One).

So after these episodes, I think a monster game like HL or HL2 is in order, as it would allow the integration of new technology as it becomes available (think of how different HL2 was from HL; this would've been impossible if they had decided to go with episodes).

 

[Beerdude26]

New technologies are very easy to incorporate into the Source engine. It'd be crazy to write an entirely new engine just for a new game.

 

[Kanehdian]

Maybe Valve can make a Real Time Strategy game? I think they would do a great job balancing the game's various factions, mostly because of their commitment to their games and Steam's ability to deliver updates faster. An episodic RTS would be interesting, expanding on established factions with each additional episode released. I think the Source engine could handle an RTS. If it can't, Valve would find a way. That is if they're interested in making an RTS that is!

 

[Lobster]

One of the plus points of episodic releases, is that with a 3+ year single mammoth release, you have to hope that the 3 years is gonna keep up with what people want, and when its out, you cant change your mind, with episodes, they can twist and manipulate the direction of the technology, gameplay, story and such based on peoples opinions and systems over a year.

Also its nice to have a new release to look forward to every year, when episode 1 came out, i played it a few times completely over a week, if it had been a full game like say half-life 2 or bioshock i would play it once, then maybe the chapters i liked the most a second time, then wouldnt do a full play through again for a while.

The TF2/Portal component has made this release even better in that respect, esspeacialy now we have the community also, it brings everyone back again at one point in an explosion of playtime. lol

I would say however that they should push to include a nice list of new features with each episode, so far they have done that pretty well, more weapons dont mean a better game, the weapons in half-life 2 all serve a specific gameplay purpose, they arent realistic but that isnt what there for, so to include a new one has to be justified by a new gameplay feature although pehaps with the next episodes they can reset and create a new set of weapons to fill those spots, like a different smg, or different shotgun, just to keep things fresh, i expect episode 3 will feature a drasticly different enviroment, (be it Snow, Alien or whatever) and possibly a new weapon (maybe the portal gun ) but its all just speculation, whatever they do im sure it will be good.

 

[-Psy-]

New technologies are very easy to incorporate into the Source engine. It'd be crazy to write an entirely new engine just for a new game.

*eyes roll*

 

[Asknoone]

It's a different scene now, Psycho.

 

[Zeus]

It's been well over a year since episode 1 was released. This is not episodic.

 

[jet jaguar]

Really defeats the purpose of episodic content if it takes over a year for each 'episode'. 2-3 hours of gameplay every 4-6 months at $15 a pop. That's what it should be. If Valve can't keep that kind of schedule then they really shouldn't call them episodes. Just call them expansion packs like they used to be called.

 

[ríomhaire]

Episodic content is fine as it is. The games are great and the timeline is reasonable. Hell, alot of "full-length" games are as short as the HL2 Episodes, eg, Black and, from what I've heard, Halo 2. The games are also miles ahead in terms of quality than most of the market. That said, I wouldn't be against getting a good, old-fashoned, long Half-Life 3 (Waits for idiots who don't know what context or a point is to say "the HL2 episodes are Half-Life 3!)

Oh, BTW.

I think Valve should work on an entirely new game in an entirely new universe. Forget this episodic stuff, it's clearly too difficult to implement unless they hire way more people. It's slow as hell and the content is still only on par with a good expansion pack. We're waiting too long for these "episodes".

idiot

As long as it takes less than 6 years im fine. There's NO excuse for working this slow as they are doing with the episodes. And i don't want to hear about they are polishing it, making it perfect and blbalbalbbl, work faster!

idiot

It's been well over a year since episode 1 was released. This is not episodic.

idiot

Yes, I am calling people who disagree with me idiots. I don't really care. It'll be worth the infraction.

 

[Polaris]

It's been well over a year since episode 1 was released. This is not episodic.

For example, Star Wars are not episodic?

I The Phantom Menace 1999
II Attack of the Clones 2002
III Revenge of the Sith 2005
IV A New Hope 1977
V The Empire Strikes Back 1980
VI Return of the Jedi 1983

 

[Asknoone]

Really defeats the purpose of episodic content if it takes over a year for each 'episode'. 2-3 hours of gameplay every 4-6 months at $15 a pop. That's what it should be. If Valve can't keep that kind of schedule then they really shouldn't call them episodes. Just call them expansion packs like they used to be called.

But they aren't expansion packs at all. Simply because they are billed as 'Episodes' doesn't make them 'expansions'. You could apply that logic to the next in the saga of anything. An expansion pack just adds mundane stuff like new weapons, enemies and doesn't really go anywhere. Episode 2 continues the story, continues the gameplay and manages 6-8 hours of play - very much the length of other games on the market, too - but does that make it any less of a game?

There's a serious flaw in how people perceive these kinds of things.

 

[Mutley]

I see the positives in Episodic content I like how quickly they come out and I still buy, play and enjoy but there is something about having "Half-Life 3" that would make it more special than all these episodes - ya' know?

It would be nice to know that there will be a HL3, I will kinda be disappointed if the story ends in HL2 Episodic content.

 

[G-Dub]

I want Episodic to keep going; the Episodes themselves are far exceeding most games on the market in terms of quality, and I expect Episode 2 to keep pushing the envelope in terms of interesting gameplay. Essentially, we are getting releases faster - it's an undeniable fact. Arguably, this isn't actual episodic releases though, is it? They are more like 'small games'. True episodic would be a longer set of episodes in a shorter time period. It'd be interesting to see that tackled, but it'd mean the episodes themselves would be more around the length of Episode 1.

As it is, though, I prefer the smaller, 6-8 hour content and would like to see it continue in the Half-life universe after the trilogy. It's just more interesting than a big release I'll blow through in a few days.

Totally, 100% agree mate.

I thought this when I saw Gabe being interviewed about the episodic content. They've certainly done the right thing IMO.

Sod waiting another 5 years for HL3!

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

As long as it takes less than 6 years im fine. There's NO excuse for working this slow as they are doing with the episodes. And i don't want to hear about they are polishing it, making it perfect and blbalbalbbl, work faster!

You have no clue about game development, leave this thread, thank you.

 

[G-Dub]

As long as it takes less than 6 years im fine. There's NO excuse for working this slow as they are doing with the episodes. And i don't want to hear about they are polishing it, making it perfect and blbalbalbbl, work faster!

They don't produce it from their anus you know... it takes a lot more work than that.

Try it if you don't believe us lol.

 

[fri][ish]

Sheesh, no one in here seems to have any patience. I would gladly wait another 5-6 years for another HL2-ish experience.

The episodes thus far, for me at least, have not been all that epic. They're great and all, and I'm definitely looking forward to them, but I would still love to see a big monolithic release ala HL2 with all the great new tech and fantastically unbelievable hype that led up to it, no matter how long it took. Half the fun is in the anticipation anyway.

I can wait. (gives me more time to enjoy TF2 anyway)

 

[-smash-]

Sheesh, no one in here seems to have any patience. I would gladly wait another 5-6 years for another HL2-ish experience.

The episodes thus far, for me at least, have not been all that epic. They're great and all, and I'm definitely looking forward to them, but I would still love to see a big monolithic release ala HL2 with all the great new tech and fantastically unbelievable hype that led up to it, no matter how long it took. Half the fun is in the anticipation anyway.

I can wait. (gives me more time to enjoy TF2 anyway)

I'm with you. Episodes are too predictable. They all follow on the same story arch. I want new.

Don't get me wrong, I love these episodes... But I want my monolith of a game.

I guess Valve set themselves up to do these episodes with HL2, because HL2 left waaaaaay too much of a cliffhanger.

 

[Link]

For example, Star Wars are not episodic?

I The Phantom Menace 1999
II Attack of the Clones 2002
III Revenge of the Sith 2005
IV A New Hope 1977
V The Empire Strikes Back 1980
VI Return of the Jedi 1983

Not in this context. There were not short films made to release frequently. they were full fat films that tied together.

The idea behind valves "episodic" content is that its shorter than a standard game, so it can be released quicker than a full fat one. No admitedly, the time between thier full games does make these episodic in time scale, but compared to most games, which have 2 years or less development, its not that quick.

My suggestion would be for valve to do both. Carry on with the episodes, aiming for a 6-9 month release point, and have a seperate team working on an epic HL3 for the future. Valve could go for episodic content to keep half life current, and epic releases to keep it amazing.

 

[Narvi]

I'm a bit bemused by the promises that were made about the development cycle, but a year honestly isn't too long for even "just" an expansion/episode.

Look at, for instance, the expansions for Dawn of War.

1) Winter Assault: Released September 2005, a full year after Dawn of War came out.

2) Dark Crusade: Released October 2006. Interesting in that like the HL2 Episodes it is a stand-alone game.

Time gap between Episodes one and two? An year and four months. That's including Portal. Not counting Team Fortress 2, because of that ten year development cycle.

In that year and four months Valve have added a new lighting and shadowing system and some interesting Cinematic Physics to the Source engine. They've revamped the textures on HL2 and Episode 1, and added two new enemies to Episode 2, as well as added some new AI.

Dark Crusade, in the year of development it underwent, added two new factions, rebalanced the existing factions as well adding new units, placed some funky new effects to the DoW engine, and crafted a remarkably fun game. Mind you, I'm biased because I like RTS games.

The only problem with Valve's release schedule is one of marketing. If they hadn't marketted the virtues of "episodic gaming" so much, and simply released the Episodes as stand-alone expansions, we wouldn't hear so much whining over the issue.

 

[TwwIX]

It should end with episode 3.
They should start working on a new engine for HL3.
A new and improved physics engine like the one being used for the upcoming Star Wars Unleashed and Indiana Jones game.A fully destructible and interactive environment.
Not just crap falling/flying off structures.Red Faction had it but didn't really take advantage of it.BF Bad Company and Warmonger devs seem to know what they're doing.
Increased map sizes would be nice.Currently,a lot of vehicle based mods out there are struggling with the source engine.Fully deformable terrain like in the upcoming Fracture game.A new graphics engine too of course but not the shinny plasticy crap we see these days.Improved AI.
Although i have yet to see a game improve on AI in general.

 

[Asknoone]

A fully destructible and interactive environment.

Whilst degrees and elements of that are fun, it wouldn't work when you have structured gameplay.

 

[Asus]

Personally, I'm on the fence with which I like better. Awaiting a big full game with everything new is more fun but there are some big time gaps between. And there are a ton of good things about releasing it in smaller chunks as they get done. But I'm not sure how casual gamers like just getting parts of a full game at a time. I suppose it might mean they are more likely to finish the game though.

All I want: Half Life 3 on Source 2 (a real 'Source 2' too, not just 'Source++')

Ready for a 6 year wait?

 

[Kadayi]

I'd really like to see Valve diversify away from FPS shooters and develop some RPG stuff because quite frankly the Source engine has such good emotive facial tech/lipsynch stuff going on compared to anything else out there it's practically a crime not to see it used more widely.

 

[Planetary]

All I want to know from that interview is whether or not Gabe ever took the December 06 release date seriously, for Episode Two. That is whether anyone at Valve really thought they could do an Episode in 6 months, because obviously they couldn't.

 

[Kuromatsu]

A new engine? Do you really want that? This is a problem with games and modding. The more advanced engines get with "monolithic" developement, the harder it becomes to produce quallity mods for them. You get to the point where it takes years to push out a quallity mod, then by that time, the next engine is already out and all your work was for jack shit because they went to a bunch of new features in it and utterly different formats for the developement. Valve and modders are BOTH getting really comfy with the source engine. It was designed to be modular and episodes take advantage of that. I'd much rather have quick progression of the story and technology that modders can take advantage of than another hueg gaem. When you come down to it, after 3 episodes, you have a game that's equivilant in size to HL2. It's pretty much just recieving your sequel in bits and pieces, instead of one big picture. Don't like it? Wait for them all to come out then play them in one sitting lulz.

 

[RioBravoXL]

Half Life is about story and character development, not flashy graphics and new weapons (although that stuff is nice, and Valve does their best to keep up with the times to please the empty headed console gamer )

Episodes appear to be far more dense in terms of plot, so I say keep 'em coming.

 

[Laivasse]

Ever since before Episode 1 was even rumoured, I've been saying that I want Valve to just hole up and go straight to HL3, no matter how long it takes.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Episode 1 and I'm sure I'll love Episode 2 and 3. The thing is, while the Episodes are probably on the level of being the best game I'm likely to play all year, HL2 was on the level of being the best game I'd played in my life thus far and created the engine, story, weaponry that in carry those games in the first place. As awesome as the episodes are likely to be as a trilogy, I doubt anything 'episodic' will match the experience of playing HL2 for the first time. I want that feeling again! And I don't care if it takes another 6 years to get it...

I kind of doubt it will happen that way though. The episodic model is clearly good business, and who knows where PC gaming will be in 6 years time. HL3 would be likely to surface as something with much more of a console feel.

 

[Advisor]

Episodic content is fine as it is. The games are great and the timeline is reasonable. Hell, alot of "full-length" games are as short as the HL2 Episodes, eg, Black and, from what I've heard, Halo 2. The games are also miles ahead in terms of quality than most of the market. That said, I wouldn't be against getting a good, old-fashoned, long Half-Life 3 (Waits for idiots who don't know what context or a point is to say "the HL2 episodes are Half-Life 3!)

Don't get me wrong, I love these episodes... But I want my monolith of a game.

^
That sums my feelings about episodic content. As much as i like the faster releases, there is something undeniably epic about "full" games.

 

[kupocake]

I'll criticise Valve's Episodic approach when they get round to doing Episodic. The Orange Box is basically the monolithic project they shyed away from in the first place... that they turned to making that much additional content after a single episode rather suggests that they've already been 'evaluating the Episodic Approach' as they went along. Not to call TF2 and Portal a timewasting exercise, but wouldn't the Half-Life 2 Episodes have come out quicker if staff dedicated to those two orange box titles were dedicated to Episode Three instead? Of course, it isn't quite that simple when you consider the unique case of Portal and its dev team, and it does raise interesting questions about whether getting two small sequential episodes quicker is in any way preferable to getting 3 unrelated small and diversely challenging games.

I like the idea of Episodic and think it can work, but I'm torn over whether it is the right thing for a Half-Life game. Sure, it's a monolithic development task, but the first two Half-Life games are accordingly among the finest monolithic experiences. Had they been released episodically, I don't doubt that they would have had far less of an impact. Episode One was very good, in the same way that the first third of Half-Life 2 was very good, but can you imagine how poorly that would have reviewed? How many more reviews would be written saying 'Negative, G-Man is still mysterious' and how many 'ifs' would hang in the air after ravenholm introduced the Gravity Gun ('wow, i can't wait to see what they do with this new gun in the later game!') only for it to be somewhat ignored in the next review, because everyone had already sliced and diced their fair share of Zombies on repeat playthroughs.

edit: Actually, that's an interesting problem with Episodic. You can't think of the overall gameplay arc in strictly linear terms because many player's experiences will be repeated again and again in the time it takes for you to release the next episode. Hypothetically even a short exposure to a new gameplay idea in Episode Two may result in the player mastering and getting bored with it by the time Episode Three is released, putting an extra strain on the creative process than is needed in a 'monolithic' game.

 

[Asuka]

Very interesting topic, i want to think about this. Episodes would be nice but a real nice big game would be nice as well.