Valve Unveils 64-Bit Source™ Technology

mezz said:
Ooooh, sounds good :)

I'me eagerly awaiting some benchmarks, I might just make the switch to xp 64 for Aftermath :D
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Wouldn't a dual-boot work too? I take it the video drivers have to be 64-bit too? Or does that go without saying. I agree it'll all be worth it to see Aftermath run better.
 
This update is really damn sweet, but did you guys know it ****s up Hammer? I can't seem to get my Source SDK to launch valve hammer editor now...

Not very good...

-DaMaN
 
Very unexpected news. But very good news indeed.

Ill wait for Windows Vista for a 64 bit os.
 
Pajari said:
I'm not sure what Farcry's system is called, but I know it combines heightmaps and meshes with a tiny bit of bsp for the more complicated indoor areas. Most of it's heightmap-based, with meshes playing second fiddle and bsp rarely used in the levels, if at all. I know Halo is even less reliant on BSP- Halo's levels are just mesh-based and can be created all in 3ds max. Unreal 2 also relies mostly on heightmaps, too, but it includes more BSP than far cry. Perhaps I should have brought up those two as well.

Anyway, I tried to avoid making a balnket statement but perhaps I didn't express myself well enough. Source is not half life 1, but they are related, and they share some of the most antiquated features- BSP, skyboxes, etc, that should have been dropped a long time ago. I mean, BSP is a pretty major thing to carry over from hl1 to 2, and pretty crippling.

I hope Valve can move away from BSP, but its been so long and the change would be so drastic that I'm not sure if they're going to be able to do it in this incarnation of the engine. If they can do it, then more power to 'em.
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Regardless of how antiquated HL2 technology might be, HL2 runs better on my system than either FarCry or Doom3 and last time I checked Quake4 still uses 2d skyboxes. Perhaps you should get onto Raven about that.
 
Got quite a stable version of Windows 64 bit right here (with drivers and hardware to match). Give me a few to download.
 
...logged back in under 64-bit OS, loaded Steam. Where do I find the download?
 
...must you be using an AMD processor instead of an Intel one for Steam to allow you to run this software? Please tell me Valve isn't that lame.
 
Adabiviak: As the Steam news post says, Steam should automagically detect if you're running 64bit or not.

What I think this update really means is that they enabled Source to access so much memory that they can load the whole sound cache at once to memory -> no more stuttering ;)
 
I, for one, welcome our new 64-bit overlords :D


Guess it's time to break out the XP64 disc that I bought(!) but found too unstable when I first tried it.
Hopefully the drivers are a bit more mature now...

Good one Valve, and merry xmas!
 
Pajari, Source engine uses modified versions of:
BSP file - the CSG structure probably hasn't changed a lot, but the VIS and RAD stuff are incomparable.
MDL file - the only difference are the facial expressions. The format is nearly the same. Oh, and you specify it's weight for physics calculations.

That's about it. And HL2/Source is the most user friendly engine to make MODs for I have ever seen. I had no problems compiling models, just needed to understand "concave".

Anyway, I don't see what's wrong in BSP map files, as long as the levels are good :p
 
Just played Lost Coast thru as 64-bit. Seemed to be somewhat faster, didn't notice any stuttering...haven't played it since the release though so can't really say if it's the 64-bit build which helped or not.
 
Does 64bit make it look better as in graphics, or just more FPS?

Thanks.
 
Pajari said:
I'm not sure what Farcry's system is called, but I know it combines heightmaps and meshes with a tiny bit of bsp for the more complicated indoor areas. Most of it's heightmap-based, with meshes playing second fiddle and bsp rarely used in the levels, if at all. I know Halo is even less reliant on BSP- Halo's levels are just mesh-based and can be created all in 3ds max. Unreal 2 also relies mostly on heightmaps, too, but it includes more BSP than far cry. Perhaps I should have brought up those two as well.
Click to expand...

The simple reason for that is that heightmaps are good for terrain, but obviously useless for any kind of indoor usage. You even admit that Far Cry uses BSP for the indoor sections. Why is that? Because it works. Far Cry's engine works just fine for predominantly outdoor settings. If you wanted to create a lot of indoor sections, you'd be using a damn sight more BSP. Exactly the same applies to Unreal Tech. It's all a question of specialisation.

Anyway, I tried to avoid making a balnket statement but perhaps I didn't express myself well enough. Source is not half life 1, but they are related, and they share some of the most antiquated features- BSP, skyboxes, etc, that should have been dropped a long time ago. I mean, BSP is a pretty major thing to carry over from hl1 to 2, and pretty crippling.

I hope Valve can move away from BSP, but its been so long and the change would be so drastic that I'm not sure if they're going to be able to do it in this incarnation of the engine. If they can do it, then more power to 'em.
Click to expand...

Somehow, I doubt that it was beyond Valve's capabilities to go to a non-BSP system for Source if they had so wanted. So that strongly suggests that they wanted to use a BSP system, presumably because that was what fitted their needs best.
 
Sounds good. It's made me want to get Windows XP x64 Edition :)

Anyone know where would be best to look? :cheers:
 
Shouldn't XP 64-bit be available somewhere on Microsoft's website, as a 190-day trial?
 
I believe they announced the tech a bit too early. 64x Windows XP isn't the most accessible O/S on the market, and Vista is only 1-2 years away, when 64bit Windows Vista will apperently be going full retail. But then again, at least it will mean they will have the tech ready, when everyone makes the move to the next-gen
 
Devvo said:
Sounds good. It's made me want to get Windows XP x64 Edition :)

Anyone know where would be best to look? :cheers:
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man its working on my 32bit.... all u need is 64bit CPU....

but did anyone notice the water is a bit ugly.... 2 much yellow in it

Edit: im talking about the water in CSS....
 
Gorgon said:
man its working on my 32bit.... all u need is 64bit CPU....
Click to expand...

As said earlier in this thread, you also need a 64bit OS to run anything in 64bit mode, including HL2. If you have a 64bit CPU and you're running the game on 32bit OS, you're running the 32bit version of the game, not 64bit.
 
Para said:
As said earlier in this thread, you also need a 64bit OS to run anything in 64bit mode, including HL2. If you have a 64bit CPU and you're running the game on 32bit OS, you're running the 32bit version of the game, not 64bit.
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Its time to upgrade the os.... I HAVE a copy of 64bit,:)
 
Where do I find the 64-bit version in Steam? Will it say "64-bit" next to the game name under "My Games"?
 
Steam seems to still be 32-bit. But when you start a HL2 session, it will say in a little box at the top of the loading screen, "64-bit mode", or something similar. (If You're running WinX64, of course)

I'm runnig a duel boot system on an AMD64 FX-53. I got Win x64 online for around $130 (and it's legit :) ). Check around.

Anyways, I'm still getting an ever so slight stutter. But my machine is having other problems, as well. So I need to check it out.
 
Gorgon said:
man its working on my 32bit.... all u need is 64bit CPU....

but did anyone notice the water is a bit ugly.... 2 much yellow in it

Edit: im talking about the water in CSS....
Click to expand...

I'm afraid to say it can't work on a 32bit OS. It is simply impossible.
 
Pajari said:
1: I've heard of HDR. I didn't say that Valve didn't change the engine at all, I said they changed it superficially. And Valve can talk about making meaningful changes 'till they're blue in the face, but it doesn't matter because I've not seen a single thing done that was anything more than "ooh, more eye candy"

2: Yeah, Vista is in beta, so I guess you're right in that sense. If you want to run all of your games and applications on a Microsoft product in beta, be my guest. And I was talking about 64bit int he future tense because people own them, but they're not being used to anything approaching their full potential yet.

3: I'm saying Valve shouldn't create an engine years behind its time. Far Cry does all the things I talked about- eliminated BSP, eliminated the 3d skybox, created a far more effecient method of displaying insane draw distances, etc. And it came out before HL2 did. Source is not an entirely new engine, by the way. It's a souped-up Half-Life engine, and Half-Life was based on Quake. That's the main reason why BSP is still around.

4: If you'd ever tried to compile models for the Source engine or make meaningful changes to the game's code, you would know what you're talking about. It's a lot easier to mod for than, say, Call of Duty, but that still doesn't mean it's not a pain in the ass. There's a lot of unnessecary junk and hacky crap you have to wade through when modding Source.
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As a modder, do u *really* want VALVe to totally change the way Source works now? Would that really make your life easier? Or would it make it worse but making u recode everything? Looking elsewhere, would other *released* mod authors be happy?

And as I must say .... Win64 Win64 Win64 Win64 Win64 Win64 Win64 Win64
Oh and Windows XP 64-bit. Clearer now?
U even said "but they're not being used to anything approaching their full potential yet" ... er, isn't that THE POINT of releasing 64-bit versions of programs?
 
Kirkburn said:
As a modder, do u *really* want VALVe to totally change the way Source works now? Would that really make your life easier? Or would it make it worse but making u recode everything? Looking elsewhere, would other *released* mod authors be happy?

And as I must say .... Win64 Win64 Win64 Win64 Win64 Win64 Win64 Win64
Oh and Windows XP 64-bit. Clearer now?
U even said "but they're not being used to anything approaching their full potential yet" ... er, isn't that THE POINT of releasing 64-bit versions of programs?
Click to expand...
Well, I think they'll have some conversion programs for us modders ready in a few months ;)

But 64-bit isn't as optimized as 32-bit so they won't be able to use it to its full potential yet.

More clear? :p
 
Huh? Conversion programs for what? I was speaking hypothetically ...

And that wasn't my point about 'full potential' - he was saying 64bit isn't used to it's full potential - I was pointing out that naturally that'll never be the case IF NO-ONE RELEASES 64-BIT PRODUCTS, as is his want :)
 
Kirkburn said:
Huh? Conversion programs for what? I was speaking hypothetically ...

And that wasn't my point about 'full potential' - he was saying 64bit isn't used to it's full potential - I was pointing out that naturally that'll never be the case IF NO-ONE RELEASES 64-BIT PRODUCTS, as is his want :)
Click to expand...
Or would it make it worse but making u recode everything? Looking elsewhere, would other *released* mod authors be happy?
Click to expand...
I thought you were saying here that the 32-bit code wouldn't work on 64-bit, hence the conversion programs :p

And about those 64-bit programs: For the same reason I said in my previous post; everyone is still experimenting and optimizing 64-bit code. If Valve were to release their code prematurely, the world would probably end (Seeing what happens if they do not release it prematurely :E)
 
Windows isn't the only OS out there..

Linux is a great and FREE alternative. Ubuntu 64 would probably suffice for most of the peoples needs out there. For running games, there are emulation programs that will run windows software and what not.

My steam still updated to 64bit even though I only have a 32bit processor. So you shouldn't worry about whether it will update you or not.
 
Beerdude26 said:
I thought you were saying here that the 32-bit code wouldn't work on 64-bit, hence the conversion programs :p

And about those 64-bit programs: For the same reason I said in my previous post; everyone is still experimenting and optimizing 64-bit code. If Valve were to release their code prematurely, the world would probably end (Seeing what happens if they do not release it prematurely :E)
Click to expand...
I think we're on the same wavelength, just getting our frequencies crossed :p
 
So I upgraded to Win XP x64... none of my programs will work on it! I'm talking about anti-virus and firewalls, well anything really.

What is there to do except roll-back to 32bit XP?
 
Devvo said:
So I upgraded to Win XP x64... none of my programs will work on it! I'm talking about anti-virus and firewalls, well anything really.

What is there to do except roll-back to 32bit XP?
Click to expand...

That was probably a bad idea. A lot of your software will not work because when you installed them they were under a different OS. Same thing happens with all but the most basic of apps when going from say Win98 to WinXP. My advice: format and do a clean install of WinXP64.
 
Anable said:
That was probably a bad idea. A lot of your software will not work because when you installed them they were under a different OS. Same thing happens with all but the most basic of apps when going from say Win98 to WinXP. My advice: format and do a clean install of WinXP64.
Click to expand...

That's what I did! Basically I use Zone Alarm and that's a 32bit application and won't run... neither would a lot of other software :(

Any suggestions?

EDIT: ooo they appear to have a 64bit version, well actually I'm just running an older versions!
 
Yeah ZoneAlarm will probably use drivers and stuff.. which need to be 64-bit. Most crucial software like that will have a 64-bit version now.

You can get a trial of XP 64 here but other than that you have to buy it (I think there used to be a trade-in but I can't find any trace of it).
 
Win 64 works just fine for me. I didn't experience any stuttering before, and I certainly didn't now. Actually, besides the operating system, this is the only 64-bit software I have! I didn't like Far Cry enough to install the 64-bit version.
 
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