Valves Joke, explanation with proof

[Ares]

Originally posted by thop
If HL2 engine is different from HL engine then it is by definition a NEW ENGINE. It'd be follish to not take some good basic parts out of the HL1 engine, instead of rewriting them exactly the same. And if you look at the code and see hundreds of thousands of exlusive HL2 code than that's very well a NEW ENGINE for me.

Yes, but this crap that was released is jammed with messy code.. things that don't make sense (according to some reviewing the code). If there is HL2 code in the game, just as this thread theorizes, then Valve DID put some in there - whether or not it's new and what they're using - any code they put in there would be used to make people fall for it even more (their form of a joke). That's the debate here - whether or not this was Valve's idea of a joke.. not whether or not what IS in there is Valves.

 

[Infection]

Originally posted by thop
If HL2 engine is different from HL engine then it is by definition a NEW ENGINE. It'd be follish to not take some good basic parts out of the HL1 engine, instead of rewriting them exactly the same. And if you look at the code and see hundreds of thousands of exlusive HL2 code than that's very well a NEW ENGINE for me.

If it's it, then you should'nt need more than a day to compile a working executable right?
I didnt think so.....

As stated its all there, even a broken build from a badly kept cvs tree can be fixed and compiled in a day. So whats stoping you from compiling it and prooving its real?

Maybe you dont know everything.
Maybe there isnt enough "structure" for it to function. Why is there so much junk in it that isnt even called? Why are there things that look like dx shaders but not actualy linked. Why so many flaws? Do they realy code that unorginized to make something this bad? Why use Worldcraft as an editor? Have you compiled that to check its functionality? See what it can do? How deep have you looked into this code.

 

[thop]

Like i said i don't know why there is GL stuff mangled in it, but when the rest is HL2 code i don't care.

 

[Ares]

That supposed HL2 code is what is being questioned here...

 

[thop]

I didn't try to compile it but others on this forum have compiled it (like qckbeam). It obvioulsy did not run (missing all art), and it obviously is not the final code. Like i said i think it is pre-E3 code just meant to run the tiny scripted demo they showed.

 

[PhatBoyz]

i feel the urge to murder

 

[Infection]

Originally posted by thop
Like i said i don't know why there is GL stuff mangled in it, but when the rest is HL2 code i don't care.

I think your afraid of saying you may be mistaken, and purposly blinding yourself because of it, preventing youself from seeing what may realy be going on.

 

[thop]

I think you should look in the mirror actually, because i have that feeling about you

 

[Infection]

Originally posted by thop
I think you should look in the mirror actually, because i have that feeling about you

Is that the only reply you have? : /

There is no reason for even a development build from some newbies to look this bad. Are you, or ever have been a developer? Do you know developers? Do you know how this works? There's a system to it...

 

[Ares]

Originally posted by thop
I think you should look in the mirror actually, because i have that feeling about you

The only one not accepting that there are other possibilities about what is going on here is you, hehe. Man, this is getting no where heh.

 

[thop]

There are over 1000 // FIX ME's, plus hundreds of //TODOs and //BUGBUGs in it. I don't think it is clean code, and i don't think it was supposed to look pretty in that phase.

 

[Infection]

Originally posted by Ares
The only one not accepting that there are other possibilities about what is going on here is you, hehe. Man, this is getting no where heh.

Nope definatly not getting anywhere, he obviously doesnt know how few minutes it would take to purge all q1 files from that src without having problems, let alone "RENAMING" hl1 files if they were used. For there being these files I think it was ment to be found out. The entire structure is layed out just like quake1 source with added crap that doesnt have full ties into the "engine" that apears in that hulk of code.

 

[thop]

Well i guess it'd take minutes to actually make up all the hundreds of thousands of HL2 code then as well?
Sorry but i think this is getting nowhere. You guys are still being stubborn. I guess we will all know the real truth soon.

 

[Ares]

Hey, there are people out there with LOTS of time on their hands. Until Valves states something official from a place I can trust then I'll make up my mind.

 

[thop]

Ok i really want to believe but explain me this: Why would anyone go through the process of fabricate real actual code worth months of work? Just to play prank? I don't get it.

 

[Infection]

Originally posted by thop
Ok i really want to believe but explain me this: Why would anyone go through the process of fabricate real actual code worth months of work? Just to play prank? I don't get it.

Have you ever priced advertising? How many sites right now are giving free sympathy props to valve right now. Every damn tech site for free. Magazines free.. It will be everywhere. They dont pay a damn dime. whats one weeks pay when you save many many thousands in advertising to get attention.

 

[The more on]

Seeing how everyone reacted, saying "we love you Gabe" , etc, If this happens to be a strategy, i think is a really good move.

This would make all the people angry at Valve for all the "things" they made to us (delay, ignoration,etc) feel sorry and more close to Valve.

I know I would NOT be angry if this was a prank or strategy from Valve... If only it was....:|

 

[thop]

I don't know if HL2 needs advertising, what gamer on this planet does not know about HL2 already? And this seems like a very high price for some advertisement to me. Besides it appear they are closing in n the guy (read a few threads above) so the discussion might be moot soon

 

[Ares]

Originally posted by thop
Ok i really want to believe but explain me this: Why would anyone go through the process of fabricate real actual code worth months of work? Just to play prank? I don't get it.

The point of this thread was to discuss the theory that VALVE fabricated the code.. they didn't waste time to do it because the code was already there. The theory is that the code is old, not what they're currently using, and so a prank follows All someone had to do was link some crap together. We're talking EARLY version of HL2 w/ EARLY source code.

You're right, apparently some of the my-got kids got caught by a poster here.

 

[Infection]

Originally posted by thop
I don't know if HL2 needs advertising, what gamer on this planet does not know about HL2 already? And this seems like a very high price for some advertisement to me. Besides it appear they are closing in n the guy (read a few threads above) so the discussion might be moot soon

Even if the direct effect wasnt advertising they are getting it now. The primary goal may have been as said in a few threads on this forum. They Could be doing it to keep people hooked on wanted HL2 now and not later. Keeping the drive and need going. Aswell as boosting popularity, sypathy, making valve your new buddy, because you feel sorry for them because they got ripped off from an unlikly situation that doesnt fit the picutre for a corp, let alone they didnt bring in any law enforment? Aswell as they didnt try to keep it under wraps and made it public on a forum no less. Usualy when something as vile as such happens. The Company brings in the Law, And Then you hear about it.

 

[flf]

I'm wondering why www.gamasutra.com doesn't have a news article on this if it's confirmed. Same goes for www.theregister.co.uk. Why are official news outlets so mysteriously silent?

 

[Infection]

Originally posted by flf
I'm wondering why www.gamasutra.com doesn't have a news article on this if it's confirmed. Same goes for www.theregister.co.uk. Why are official news outlets so mysteriously silent?

Exactly, the real media probably contacted valve to see it if was a hoak, since they are reliable news resources with high reputation. And valve probably confirmed it was in that case they wouldnt display what has been going on. Because they only show real news of authentic occurances.

 

[Ares]

Originally posted by flf
I'm wondering why www.gamasutra.com doesn't have a news article on this if it's confirmed. Same goes for www.theregister.co.uk. Why are official news outlets so mysteriously silent?

Why is it the only "official" confirmation about this was posted on these forums.. nothing emailed to shacknews.com, planethalflife.com, city-17.net .... nothing but a forum post, on a site that had it's admin earlier attempting to socially engineer (con) a Valve employee for information by posing as another Valve employee. Excuse me for not believing everything I've read so far as not everything adds up.

wtf? I ask.. wtf?

 

[DrZaius]

One, this is HL2 scourse, not complete, not clean, but it is HL2 source. Anyone with some experience can see that.

And secondly, do you think with all the crap that Valve has put its customers through, they are going to jepordize any more if its own dignity by pulling a stunt or prank on its own community?

Thats like Valve kicking itself while its down. It just wouldnt make sense logically or finantially.

 

[Infection]

If this is indeed a hoax, and I am 99.9% it is, (only way to be 100% is official confirmation) can I get a free copy? Ive played this sharade a bit.

 

[Infection]

Originally posted by DrZaius
One, this is HL2 scourse, not complete, not clean, but it is HL2 source. Anyone with some experience can see that.

And secondly, do you think with all the crap that Valve has put its customers through, they are going to jepordize any more if its own dignity by pulling a stunt or prank on its own community?

Thats like Valve kicking itself while its down. It just wouldnt make sense logically or finantially.

Im not even getting started with you....read everything ive said already and i rest my case.

 

[madcow555]

Ok... well, let's look at it this way, IF it is a fabrication, then yes, a large group of people, like say.... the my*0t kiddies could have put it all together since there are like 80 of them or so, but realistically, this does look like very old code. Pre-E3, and maybe even earlier. Some of the comments allude to E3, but e3 footage was over a year old anyways. And on a side note, the code and hl1 and quake source code matches up to around 16%, that's been stated before. Source was built from the ground up. I don't think the old code should exist, and I think this code is old. I still don't see how the hell some place like Valve could be hacked so easily. :c( Maybe Gabe doesn't want official statements to get out because then word would get around and everyone would scramble to find it... so maybe they're trying to stop the spread before they announce it to all the world. Then again, that'll never happen. :c\

 

[DrZaius]

I dont need to read anything you have said, because ultimately it dosent matter.

As far as the issue of this leak being some sort of elaborate marketing hoax by Valve, that is simply ludicrous. It is HL2 code, it may very well be old, old code, but it is confidential code from Valve. As large a company as Valve is, and as large as the Half Life name is, there is not need for any marketing stunts right now. And as far as marketing stunts go, this would be a very poor stunt. If it were a hoax, they would only be hurting themself more, if caught, and the 60-80 thousand people who viewed these forumns today (a far greater number than visit this site normally) is only a miniscule persentage of people who will be buying this game. The only publicity stunt worth while for a game of this magnatude would be something that is going to get the attention of the millions of OTHER causal gamers who will be buying HL2, not thoes who are dedicated enough to visit this forumn. And whats the point of stirring up controvarsy within a community that is garunteed to buy your product in the first place?

Valve woud recieve no gain whatsoever from fabricating a fake leak.

 

[Infection]

Originally posted by DrZaius
I dont need to read anything you have said, because ultimately it dosent matter.

As far as the issue of this leak being some sort of elaborate marketing hoax by Valve, that is simply ludicrous. It is HL2 code, it may very well be old, old code, but it is confidential code from Valve. As large a company as Valve is, and as large as the Half Life name is, there is not need for any marketing stunts right now. And as far as marketing stunts go, this would be a very poor stunt. If it were a hoax, they would only be hurting themself more, if caught, and the 60-80 thousand people who viewed these forumns today (a far greater number than visit this site normally) is only a miniscule persentage of people who will be buying this game. The only publicity stunt worth while for a game of this magnatude would be something that is going to get the attention of the millions of OTHER causal gamers who will be buying HL2, not thoes who are dedicated enough to visit this forumn. And whats the point of stirring up controvarsy within a community that is garunteed to buy your product in the first place?

Valve woud recieve no gain whatsoever from fabricating a fake leak.

Explain the serious lack of real news media, if you read you would know what im talking about, aswell as wheres the law that is usualy brought into this? Why only request help from helpless peons on some forum and getting tons of hits to this site. When Normalay when an occurance such of this happens people break out the law, there are investigations, fbi is involved, large media sites post the occurance when it happens, not this no display of occurance 3 days after it had happend. Explain that?

 

[DrZaius]

Valve messed up. They are trying to keep the situation as quiet as possible. The more who know, the larger a problem they have, its a very simple concept. As far as the FBI is concerned, there is no reason to let the community know if there is a investigation or not. Other sites may have been contacted by valve and asked not to speak of the matter. It happens very often in Journalisim. When someone makes a mistake they dont want people to know about it, it makes them look bad, and when your a large company like Valve, mistakes and immage loss costs money. The best Valve can hope for is that this dies down quickly, and the best way for that to happen is with the help of journalistic agencies.

 

[Infection]

Originally posted by DrZaius
Valve messed up. They are trying to keep the situation as quiet as possible. The more who know, the larger a problem they have, its a very simple concept. As far as the FBI is concerned, there is no reason to let the community know if there is a investigation or not. Other sites may have been contacted by valve and asked not to speak of the matter. It happens very often in Journalisim. When someone makes a mistake they dont want people to know about it, it makes them look bad, and when your a large company like Valve, mistakes and immage loss costs money. The best Valve can hope for is that this dies down quickly, and the best way for that to happen is with the help of journalistic agencies.

Soo....the first thing they do is post a help request on a very open puiblic forum for millions to see once every tech and gaming site alike read it and see it on other sites? Let alone saying how people were obtaining it....

If they want to be quiet are you saying they are stupid enough to do that on purpose?

 

[DrZaius]

They have to attend to the core community, as if you noticed they did it in a very professional way, they gave the facts, they said what happened. From here, our comunity will continue to debate and bicker, but with that word from Gabe, they wont go out and cause more problems. Latge media agencies may comment, and they may not, but im sure Valve is trying to contain the information where it is. The main point is that the more who know, the more of a problem they have on their hands. They arent getting any more of the spotlight then they already have, they arent getting any new poential consumers by creating a fake leak. all thoes who know of the leak know of HL2, there is no gain here. The only thing that can happen is that people would loose MORE respect for Valve if they found out that they pulled a hoax. A loss iof potential consumers. The risk would be to great, and that coupled with no monitary gain proves that this is not a hoax. These are all basic economical and social/journalistic concepts.

 

[Infection]

Originally posted by DrZaius
They have to attend to the core community, as if you noticed they did it in a very professional way, they gave the facts, they said what happened. From here, our comunity will continue to debate and bicker, but with that word from Gabe, they wont go out and cause more problems. Latge media agencies may comment, and they may not, but im sure Valve is trying to contain the information where it is. The main point is that the more who know, the more of a problem they have on their hands. They arent getting any more of the spotlight then they already have, they arent getting any new poential consumers by creating a fake leak. all thoes who know of the leak know of HL2, there is no gain here. The only thing that can happen is that people would loose MORE respect for Valve if they found out that they pulled a hoax. A loss iof potential consumers. The risk would be to great, and that coupled with no monitary gain proves that this is not a hoax. These are all basic economical and social/journalistic concepts.

I think your insulting their intelligence by saying this network "hack" could occur, that they do code this badly, and that are dumb enough to post on a forum that is now gettings hundreds of thousands of hits an hour while half the known planet now knows of this occurance. How many companies respond in this sloppy fashion when they have a source leak or code stolen.

Why must everyone be quick to defend and be closed off without looking deeper in to what could be happening. I mean seriously they would have to be apes to not have seen this would bring in alot of hits, alot of sympathy and attention to distract people from the fact hl2 is delayed, now they dont have hate everyone loves valve and wants to kill the %$#& that stole their code. How much do you know about network security, do you realy think some company with realy realy important code is going to have boxes open to the world for code to just be taken off of? By making a post on this forum they have done the exact opposite of keeping things quiet. It has been 3 days since the leak occured. No major media sites have said anything about it. What happend when d3 was leaked? All the large media sites made note of it. 3 freaking days and nothing from them. Do they dislike valve to not post it? Or do they simply know more than the community.

 

[DrZaius]

jesus, this is my last post because im growing tired of your ignorance.

- not that many people know of this leak. You may think that everyone in this wrold is like you but your wrong. Thoes who know of this are thoes who are dedicated gamers, NOT the majority, we are the minority.

- The Doom 3 leak causes no serious finantial problems for ID, their sourse wasnt leaked, its as if they released a demo.

- The lack of major news outlets talking of this leak is posotive reinforcement in the fact that this is a real leak. When a large company messes, when the government messes up, when ANYONE with power and money messes up they try their best to keep it quiet. Aid from the Journalistic world (by keeping quiet) is one way of doing this, and guess what, they do it often.

- They will please their community by releasing the game, they dont even need to worry about their community because they know we will all buy the game regardless, this leak has created sympathy, however they would never fabricate it because if they were found out then the consequences would be horrendous. No monitary gain plus the chance of a possible loss of sales = no possibility of this being a hoax.

- Far more secure places have been hacked into. The white house and MIT, and even the CIA have been hacked on more than a couple occasions. A videogame software company is not going to have more security than the CIA. This stuff happens, dont go believing that its not possible.

-ultimately the whole thing is about money. They dont gain money by creating a hoax, thoes who hear about the leak will be buying the game anyways and thoes who diddnt plan on buying the game wont be changed by hearing that Valve got screwed. The more who know about rhe leak the more valve had to worry about obtaining the leak. The more money they have the possibility of loosing. And money is what Valve's number 1 concern is, wether you wish to accecpt that or not.

Sh*t happens, wake up.

 

[Infection]

Originally posted by DrZaius
jesus, this is my last post because im growing tired of your ignorance.

- not that many people know of this leak. You may think that everyone in this wrold is like you but your wrong. Thoes who know of this are thoes who are dedicated gamers, NOT the majority, we are the minority.

- The Doom 3 leak causes no serious finantial problems for ID, their sourse wasnt leaked, its as if they released a demo.

- The lack of major news outlets talking of this leak is posotive reinforcement in the fact that this is a real leak. When a large company messes, when the government messes up, when ANYONE with power and money messes up they try their best to keep it quiet. Aid from the Journalistic world (by keeping quiet) is one way of doing this, and guess what, they do it often.

- They will please their community by releasing the game, they dont even need to worry about their community because they know we will all buy the game regardless, this leak has created sympathy, however they would never fabricate it because if they were found out then the consequences would be horrendous. No monitary gain plus the chance of a possible loss of sales = no possibility of this being a hoax.

- Far more secure places have been hacked into. The white house and MIT, and even the CIA have been hacked on more than a couple occasions. A videogame software company is not going to have more security than the CIA. This stuff happens, dont go believing that its not possible.

-ultimately the whole thing is about money. They dont gain money by creating a hoax, thoes who hear about the leak will be buying the game anyways and thoes who diddnt plan on buying the game wont be changed by hearing that Valve got screwed. The more who know about rhe leak the more valve had to worry about obtaining the leak. The more money they have the possibility of loosing. And money is what Valve's number 1 concern is, wether you wish to accecpt that or not.

Sh*t happens, wake up.

You need to grow up and open your eyes, you can call me ignant all you want. It doesnt mean a damn thing to me. And yes more people than you may know, know about this, its spread across many many irc networks, pirate rings, about every tech and gaming site i look at, i wont even go into the full extent that this code is available. Everyone knows about it people made it to be so. You dont tell 1 person and expect him not to tell a friend. Thats like getting the flu and expecting people not to get it when your blowing snot on their face. This is spreading fast. If everyone doesnt know about it now they will tomorrow. Im not going to post again because I have been arguing with people about this for the past few hours, I have looked at the code and I would REALY like to hope they dont code that badly. If you cant see how they have more possible to gain than loss your being closed minded.

And a Good day to you Sir. I wont drop to your level and start s#!+ talking.

 

[Screwdriver]

Damn you DrZaius for stealing my nick. (5 year old nick!)

I knew you were around here somewhere.



I guess there are a lot of members tho.

av a good one

 

[alper]

thats a very good theory considering how many video samples they released they must be trying to divert the gamers minds to believeing that that is the real half life and to try to avoid hackers

 

[Grimsrud]

Christ.... so everyone blindly believed Gabe when he said "completely new engine from scratch".

OF COURSE THEY SAY THAT! Otherwise ppl will go on; "uh.. its based on Q1.. i wont buy it... ".

Dont be so focking naive.

They re-use SOME code from HL1... and its perfectly obvious why.

 

[nsxownzme]

?
You don't need to be here if you don't want to.

 

[Ares]

Originally posted by Grimsrud
Christ.... so everyone blindly believed Gabe when he said "completely new engine from scratch".

OF COURSE THEY SAY THAT! Otherwise ppl will go on; "uh.. its based on Q1.. i wont buy it... ".

Dont be so focking naive.

They re-use SOME code from HL1... and its perfectly obvious why.

Why wouldn't people believe Gabe??

Also, Mr. I-know-it-all, explain to us (with your all knowing abilities) WHY they had to re-use some code form HL1?

How about you stop being a dick and start posting constructively. There are numerous ways you could've posted your message without sounding like an asshole. Care to try again?