Virginia Tech Shootings - Gun Debate

[Krynn72]

Most gun safety classes recommend against both of those

What do they recommend? Cooperating?

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

Instead of banning guns, make them non-lethal.

 

[brink's]

And a great percent of the population feels the same way about porn and countless other things. Luckily other people not liking something doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to enjoy it, especially in the privacy of my home.

A 10 year old finds porn in his home= blows his load
A 10 year old finds a gun in his home= blows his head off

there is a fundamental difference between the two.

What is enjoyable about possessing something you can't use and heightens risk?

 

[BeenJumpin]

A 10 year old finds porn in his home= blows his load
A 10 year old finds a gun in his home= blows his head off

there is a fundamental difference between the two.

What is enjoyable about possessing something you can't use and heighten risk?

If you have an unlocked gun in the reach of a ten year old child, then you're negligent and should be punished accordingly.
I'm 100 percent for punishing people that do something wrong. But leave safe harmless citizens alone, don't send them to prison because other people are wreckless

 

[delusional]

My dad has a gun right next to the front door. I think loaded too. Rest of the guns are locked up.

why are so many faithful christians also strong gun proponents?

I'm a gun proponent, but I'm atheist. So ha. I think if your raised with guns around then your pretty much going to be pro-guns. I got my first gun on my seventh birthday, unlike most kids who get water-guns.

 

[CptStern]

If you have an unlocked gun in the reach of a ten year old child, then you're negligent and should be punished accordingly.

if it's locked how will you defend yourself from someone who just crawled into your bedroom window?

 

[BeenJumpin]

if it's locked how will you defend yourself from someone who just crawled into your bedroom window?

Don't know, don't care. First priority is safety

 

[CptStern]

so at that point having a gun to defend youself is useless

 

[BeenJumpin]

so at that point having a gun to defend youself is useless

I never said anything about using a gun to defend yourself...
Guns may or may not be useful in defending yourself. I really don't know. Honestly I'd imagine theres very little you could do to ensure your safety if an armed intruder entered your home. I'd ask the local police what they suggest and rely on their experience (And this is just a guess, but I doubt pull out a gun will be a likely response). But that has nothing to do with if the mere act of owning a gun should be illegal

 

[CptStern]

then why would you own a gun? does simple want entitle you to owning an instrument of death?

I'll have some O-Isopropyl methylphosphonofluoridate please

 

[BeenJumpin]

then why would you own a gun? does simple want entitle to you an instrument of death?

Honestly I don't know why people own a lot of stuff they own. That doesn't mean I have the right to make them a criminal for owning it

Like I said, my friend and people like him aren't harming anyone or putting anyone in danger. Theres no way to justify putting them in prison for what they're doing. Lock up the criminals.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

My grandmother lives in Detroit, and once fended off a robber with a revolver. She fired the weapon. Didn't hit anything, but she fired it.
I stayed at her place one summer and found the gun. Knowing it was potentially lethal I let it lie.

Prevention lies in education. Most kids who find guns don't realize they can easily blow their face off.
Also teach your kids to respect your personal boundaries, i.e. closets and clothes drawers.

 

[CptStern]

Honestly I don't know why people own a lot of stuff they own. That doesn't mean I have the right to make them a criminal for owning it

laws are laws for a reason, if you cant enforce them it's meaningless ..no one would hestitate to question a person who has dynamite or a bengal tiger in a downtown apartment ..fundamentally they're all the same: potentially dangerous ,,I dont see what gives anyone a right to own an instrument that is potentially and intrinsically lethal

Like I said, my friend and people like him aren't harming anyone or putting anyone in danger.

sure they are ..by possessing a gun they infringe on my right to live

Theres no way to justify putting them in prison for what they're doing. Lock up the criminals.

he is a criminal, if he broke the law he is a criminal, there is no disputing this ..you cant choose which laws you want to follow ..that enables criminality: "I want what bob has and I can take it because while it violates the law I have a right to pick and choose which law I choose to follow"

 

[FieryGoose]

why are so many faithful christians also strong gun proponents? doesnt jebus tell you that if someone tries to break into your house and rape your wife you should also offer up your daughter cuz of that whole "turn the other cheek" thingy?



no, but seriously why do so many christains want to blow criminals away with double barreled, jesus approved, american made instruments of righteous judgement? arent you supposed to love everyone equally? including the rapists, murderers and especially sodomites?

um... eye for an eye, Honestly i would probably tell him that God works in mysterious ways right before I blew his brains out. If i was married...
(Someone mentioned the mysterious ways phrase on one of these threads, i just thought this would be a funny application of the phrase. Apply to forehead)
By the way I hope you guys aren't getting the wrong idea, I'm no "Bible thumper", I just don't like it when people put my belief in my God down. I hope you all understand.

 

[BeenJumpin]

laws are laws for a reason, if you cant enforce them it's meaningless ..no one would hestitate to question a person who has dynamite or a bengal tiger in a downtown apartment ..fundamentally they're all the same: potentially dangerous ,,I dont see what gives anyone a right to own an instrument that is potentially and intrinsically lethal

Because having a tiger or highly explosive material lying around are both very dangerous. The tiger could get out or a small fire could ignite the explosives. But owning an unarmed locked gun in my house doesn't put anyone in any danger. Theres no threat and no danger. It shouldn't be a crime.

sure they are ..by possessing a gun they infringe on my right to live

So because my friend safely stores guns in his house, you die? Clearly you're not dead so I'm not understanding you...

The only thing that infringes on your right to live is someone killing you

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

I agree. No one is infringing upon your right to do anything.

By this logic the US having nukes is doing the same, and so is every military organization.

Here's the solution, ban them all.
World ban on fighting starts.......................... now.

 

[FieryGoose]

Because having a tiger or highly explosive material lying around are both very dangerous. The tiger could get out or a small fire could ignite the explosives. But owning an unarmed locked gun in my house doesn't put anyone in any danger. Theres no threat and no danger. It shouldn't be a crime.


So because my friend safely stores guns in his house, you die? Clearly you're not dead so I'm not understanding you...

The only thing that infringes on your right to live is someone killing you

QFT
It's not the object that causes the crime it's the people. I'm probably going to get flamed for this parallel but this is just like the fruity kids that blame their criminal actions on the videogames, It's the people, some of their wires are crossed = dead people...

 

[Jintor]

So, what, Ban the people? A gun's only - only - purpose is to kill. It's not a god-damn videogame or something, it's a weapon. You own something that is made with only one intention: TO TAKE LIFE AWAY FROM ANOTHER BEING.

 

[Absinthe]

I'm no fan of guns. I think most people would be better off without them, and most robbery/trespass scenarios that employ them usually have worse consequences than if there was no weapon (although I have no idea how gun education factors into this).

But... I can't put my finger on it, but something about outlawing guns really rubs me the wrong way.

 

[BeenJumpin]

So, what, Ban the people? A gun's only - only - purpose is to kill. It's not a god-damn videogame or something, it's a weapon. You own something that is made with only one intention: TO TAKE LIFE AWAY FROM ANOTHER BEING.

Personally I think it'd be a lotta fun to go down to a shooting range and shoot a pistol. My wife shot clay pigeons with a shotgun and she really liked it. Even small game hunting could be fun. And frankly some guns just look really cool. There are plenty of reasons to have a gun, killing people isn't on most gun owners list.

 

[Jintor]

Personally I think it'd be a lotta fun to go down to a shooting range and shoot a pistol. My wife shot clay pigeons with a shotgun and she really liked it. Even small game hunting could be fun. And frankly some guns just look really cool. There are plenty of reasons to have a gun, killing people isn't on most gun owners list.

Conceded, but the fact remains that you're still owning a thing that was made specifically to kill.

 

[Absinthe]

Conceded, but the fact remains that you're still owning a thing that was made specifically to kill.

True, but I don't see much merit in that point. It's not like gun owners are endangering their neighborhoods. At least not the sane ones.

 

[BeenJumpin]

Conceded, but the fact remains that you're still owning a thing that was made specifically to kill.

Like I listed earlier. I could shoot targets, clay pigeons, game, etc. with a gun. They're not made for killing people, they're made for shooting stuff. Anything.

Besides, owning something that poses no danger, even if it was created for killing people, isn't harming anyone or putting anyone in danger and shouldn't be a crime

 

[Jintor]

Like I listed earlier. I could shoot targets, clay pigeons, game, etc. with a gun. They're not made for killing people, they're made for shooting stuff. Anything.

Besides, owning something that poses no danger, even if it was created for killing people, isn't harming anyone or putting anyone in danger and shouldn't be a crime

No, i don't think it should be a crime... but it really really should be about 50x more regulated in America than it is.

Still 'Not made for killing people, made for shooting stuff'... man, that's hilareous logic. Yes, guns were made specifically to hit switches from across a distance! Yes, they were made to shoot clay targets! No, it will always pose a danger, because that is the nature of a weapon. But owning one isn't a crime, and it probably shouldn't be, what with freedom and all that crap.

I still can't help but feel horribly horribly nervous about guns though.

 

[gick]

meh I'll throw this in from the other thread but I really dont want to continue this debate because for the most part gun advocates are unreasonable ..no amount of facts will pry their guns from their hands ..only death's icy grip will do that (**** you chuck heston)

Im a gun advocate and I like to think i'm a reasonable person, thank you very much.

I agree with this:

But I just don't see how you can ever get rid of guns. And as long as criminals will have those guns I think lawful citizens should be able to posses them with proper documentation for their own protection.

this:

It's pretty hard to overthrow a government that has all the guns

and this:

Declaring them illegal seems like it might bring about many of the same problems we saw with prohibition, and today's war on drugs. Making something harmful illegal can lead to just as much harm.

Also, the fact that the Virginia Tech shootings happened in a 'gun free zone' is quite revealing....

 

[Gray Fox]

What do the statistics say, and with statistic I mean ones with a reliable source, and with a source I mean the group that did the study not just the publication.
Do accident with guns, and misuse of legal guns cause more deaths, then deaths that are prevented by guns?

Also, whats good for one country is not necessarily good for another, a big country like the US has a lot of rural areas which are far away from any police station, so guns might be a good idea there, seeing as cop would need more then 2 hours to get there.
On the other hand, because such places are remote, the chance of a robbery or rape is smaller.

It's pretty hard to overthrow a government that has all the guns

Hand guns, hell even machine rifles are useless against a government that deserves to be overthrown. Simply because the government has a professional military, you have seen in Afghanistan and Iraq how useless it is to go up against a professional military.
And terrorism and guerrilla style warfare don't work either since a government that deserves to be overthrown will probably go all the way and simply decimate whole population of innocent people to get to their enemies, like in the case of Stalin, Hussein, Kim Yung Ill. You cannot go up against a dictatorial government, with a professional army with your guns and rifles.
The only government handguns and rifles are usefully against, is a nice democratic one, who will not go all the way to protect itself by whatever means.
The point being, that kind of thinking is only useful if you plan to be dictator and overthrow a legitimate government, which is a good point against guns if you ask me.

 

[gick]

Also, whats good for one country is not necessarily good for another, a big country like the US has a lot of rural areas which are far away from any police station, so guns might be a good idea there, seeing as cop would need more then 2 hours to get there.
On the other hand, because such places are remote, the chance of a robbery or rape is smaller.

I probably should have clarified: I am pro-gun when it comes to places like the US - where there are already lots of guns, it makes sense to be able to be able to put yourself on equal terms with an assailant. Yet to make my mind up about here in the UK.

 

[Dev]

Once the secret government orchestrators have pushed too far in their fight to take our freedoms. We will need those guns when a peoples revolution happens. I say no to taking away our freedom to own a gun.

 

[Absinthe]

Once the secret government orchestrators have pushed too far in their fight to take our freedoms. We will need those guns when a peoples revolution happens. I say no to taking away our freedom to own a gun.

VIVA LA REVOLUTION

WE'RE GONNA STORM THE WHITE HOUSE, DEWD

 

[15357]

Although it has negative effects on socio-disorder-crime levels, I say leave it.


It keeps people under the delusion that they can win against the State. Keeps them content, and deluded. In which they are safe inside their own delusions, and the whole of society would be with more order.

 

[Absinthe]

Numbers, you scare the living shit out of me.

 

[15357]

I just have a.... pragmatic point of view.

 

[Dynasty]

Guns dont kill people....





































APES with guns kill people...

 

[15357]

Once the secret government orchestrators have pushed too far in their fight to take our freedoms. We will need those guns when a peoples revolution happens. I say no to taking away our freedom to own a gun.

Perfect example of my "Safe inside Delusion" theory. :E

 

[Asknoone]

Although it has negative effects on socio-disorder-crime levels, I say leave it.


It keeps people under the delusion that they can win against the State. Keeps them content, and deluded. In which they are safe inside their own delusions, and the whole of society would be with more order.

You need locking up.

 

[Gray Fox]

Numbers has a point though, the idea that you can overthrow a dictatorial government with guns, does distract people from the real issues.

Involving yourself with the governing and holding politicians responsible for their actions, is far more important for the safekeeping of our liberty and our safety. A lot of pro gun advocates seem to be the same kind of people that let their elected officials get away with a lot of illegal and totalitarian shit.

 

[Dev]

Article

Heres an article people should take a look at. Get a different perspective on the whole thing than the what you might get from the mainstream media. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/160407blackop.htm

 

[Absinthe]

Oh yes, Prison Planet.

You can go kill yourself now.

 

[Terminator]

Heres an article people should take a look at. Get a different perspective on the whole thing than the what you might get from the mainstream media. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/160407blackop.htm

Very, very unlikely

 

[Tyguy]

6 pages, and FINALLY a conspiracy thread......

UGH........