Wal Mart Security Thinks He's Cop - Gets Fired

[VirusType2]

replace knife with firearm, and you can see why letting him go and letting the police deal with it is a good idea. You don't know if he is prepared to use it or not, that's why it's a good idea to step out of the way. A lot of people are hurt or killed in a struggle over a weapon, because they feel that if they don't use it, the other guy will take the weapon and use it on them.

Most of the receipt checkers in my local wal-mart are approaching 80 years old.

 

[Reginald]

 

[theotherguy]

Chasing someone down over a pack of golf balls and putting yourself and the general public at risk IS STUPID. What if they guy would've stabbed him in the gutt and he died? How smart would he be then?
.

This is exactly why it was a commendable and ethical thing to do. Risking your own life simply to do the right thing takes a lot of courage. That doesn't mean it isn't stupid to do so. There is a fine line between stupidity and bravery -- but one can be ethical without being particularly smart.

The guy didnt show a knife until he was already chased down as well. This guy chased down someone OUT of the store over golf balls. Stupid- he knew he'd be fired for it and wanted to be 'the hero'.

If this is really the case, then his act wouldn't have been such a good thing -- however I'm not sure you can make that statement about him. However, if he KNEW he would be fired, why would he want to be "the hero?" If he knew he would be fired, then the risk was to his life and to his position to do the right thing -- and he chose to do it. I can hardly see why this is a bad thing.

Check user comments about the guy personally, sound like that kind of personality

It doesn't make much of a difference what his personality is -- he performed a good act without regard to his personal safety or position -- and succeed. That fact stands.

If this guy died then you'd be crying that Wal-Mart doesn't do enough to train it's staff to be safe rather than protecting the company assets with their life

Well, it is obviously rather stupid to give up your life for something like petty theft. But this is exactly what makes the act so ethically right. It was dangerous, it carried risk of personal injury or death -- but it was the right thing to do.

 

[sinkoman]

This is exactly why it was a commendable and ethical thing to do. Risking your own life simply to do the right thing takes a lot of courage. That doesn't mean it isn't stupid to do so. There is a fine line between stupidity and bravery -- but one can be ethical without being particularly smart.

If he had alerted his manager the second that fool put the golf balls in his pants, then Mr. Thief wouldn't be in jail, rent a cop would still have a job, and wallmart wouldn't be out a set of golfballs.

He was NOT brave AT ALL. He was just trying way too hard to be a ****ing hero, and completely ignored protocol.

Actually, I have no idea what wallmart protocol is, but i'm pretty certain it doesn't involve hiding the fact that a potential shoplifter is in the store from the powers that be.

Also, there is absolutely no place for bravery on the basics of ethics in this world. It just ****s shit up way harder for everybody else.

Well, it is obviously rather stupid to give up your life for something like petty theft. But this is exactly what makes the act so ethically right. It was dangerous, it carried risk of personal injury or death -- but it was the right thing to do.

So, you think it's ethically right to die over a set of golfballs?

 

[theotherguy]

So, you think it's ethically right to die over a set of golfballs?

Let the whole world perish, should justice be done -- Immanuel Kant

Yes.

 

[15357]

Could you guys stop being retarded and make every thread into an argument? Or at least use phrases like "I disagree" instead of making acidic comments.

 

[sinkoman]

Let the whole world perish, should justice be done -- Immanuel Kant

Yes.

...

...

...

I don't give a **** what sort of philosophical commentary you base your morals on, you can't possibly mean to tell me that it's ok to sacrifice your life so that one of the most evil corporations in the world can make 45 bucks off of a set of golf balls.

You can never attribute material worth to the human life. That's one of the most unethical decisions people make on this planet, thinking that there are objects out there that equal the worth of another mans freedom or life.

Could you guys stop being retarded and make every thread into an argument? Or at least use phrases like "I disagree" instead of making acidic comments.

You suck at debating. The comments are only acidic if you sit there and pretend everybody is yelling their ass off about it.

 

[Danimal]

Without it this forum would nothing but a bunch of one liners and statements that never get challenged.

Frankly, I like these arguments!

 

[15357]

You suck at debating. The comments are only acidic if you sit there and pretend everybody is yelling their ass off about it.

Right.

Unfortunately, they sound acidic even if it were in a monotone. Besides, I doubt that in a real debate "I don't give a ****" or "You suck" would be used.

 

[sinkoman]

Right.

Unfortunately, they sound acidic even if it were in a monotone. Besides, I doubt that in a real debate "I don't give a ****" or "You suck" would be used.

You've obviously never had a lighthearted conversation with anybody.

 

[Shyam]

*Imagines what a hardcore argument would look like*

 

[15357]

You've obviously never had a lighthearted conversation with anybody.

Were we not talking about debating, not lighthearted conversation? Besides, it is hard to get a real grasp of the emotion that people portray through their posts, so it's hard to tell if they're joking or not.


Apologies, if I'm wrong.

 

[sinkoman]

Were we not talking about debating, not lighthearted conversation? Besides, it is hard to get a real grasp of the emotion that people portray through their posts, so it's hard to tell if they're joking or not.


Apologies, if I'm wrong.

Idk, when I read these, I picture a bunch of friends sitting around and talking about shit.

I think picturing posts any other way is taking shit way too seriously.

 

[15357]

Idk, when I read these, I picture a bunch of friends sitting around and talking about shit.

I think picturing posts any other way is taking shit way too seriously.

Yeah. I guess you're right.


Heh. People always tell me to stop being so serious, and even on the Internet I'm doing it.

 

[VirusType2]

So, you think it's ethically right to die over a set of golfballs?

Let the whole world perish, should justice be done -- Immanuel Kant

Yes.

LOL. I find that mind blowingly stupid. How about **** the golf balls, let's go home to our families. Wal-Mart is a billion dollar corporation, okay?

 

[Danimal]

Idk, when I read these, I picture a bunch of friends sitting around and talking about shit.

I think picturing posts any other way is taking shit way too seriously.

The day I read a post on this forum that angers me to the core is the day I quit the internet, shave my head and live the monk's life.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Edit: Actually nevermind this is pretty ****ing stupid.

He stopped a guy with a knife. It may have been stupid, but someone could have gotten hurt. The end.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

In the event of an alarm going off, we may ask to see the receipt to confirm they have indeed payed for the product.

 

[theotherguy]

...

I don't give a **** what sort of philosophical commentary you base your morals on, you can't possibly mean to tell me that it's ok to sacrifice your life so that one of the most evil corporations in the world can make 45 bucks off of a set of golf balls.

You can never attribute material worth to the human life. That's one of the most unethical decisions people make on this planet, thinking that there are objects out there that equal the worth of another mans freedom or life.

Yes that is correct. Everything has either a price, or dignity. Things with dignity are priceless. Both the thief and the security officer have dignity, and thus we can not value their lives in terms of golf-balls.

However, the security guy was risking his own life for the sake of justice, and duty. Using someone else's life as an ends to a means is indeed unethical and morally reprehensible. However, risking your own life as a means to an end is very ethical.

If Wal-Mart had ordered him to do this, and commended him for it, they would be doing something unethical, because they would be using his life (something with dignity) in exchange for something of price (the golf balls.) However, Wal-Mart did not tell him to do this, and also fired him. Wal-Mart was thus doing the right thing, and so was the security guard. Wal-Mart did not risk his life -- he risked his own.

The thief traded the dignity of whoever made those golf balls for his own material wealth, and thus he did something unethical, and it is in the interest of justice that he be apprehended and his crimes paid for.

Now, whether or not what the security guard did was rational is another matter entirely. It is not rational to risk one's life for golf balls. But it is not unethical. The most rational -- and ethical -- thing that the security guard could have done was to contact the authorities with a description of the thief and have them apprehend him (since he would not be risking his own life or forsaking his duty either.)


Therefore, the best thing for him to do was to inform the authorities or his manager, but apprehending the thief himself was not at all a bad thing.

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

but otherguy you see you are wrong because the guy was not a cop and therefore completely incapable of trying to do the right thing because only cops have the ability to do so and I just think tha-*brain explodes*

 

[theotherguy]

Now you're just trolling.

 

[Sheepo]

But it's so subtle!

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

tryin my best guys.

 

[Escaep]

boasting about how he's going to shoot people who break into his house instead of calling the police.

Robber breaks in.

Homeowner wakes up.

Confronts robber.

Homeowner: "Whoa whoa whoa man hold up a sec, lemme call the cops first"

Robber: "Alright alright thats cool. Let me know when you're done"

Homeowner: "Thanks"

Robber: "No problem"

Homeowner: "Hey help yourself to some stuff in the fridge if you'd like, and the remote is on the couch you might be able to catch some rated r movies this early in the morning."

:dozey:

 

[Pulse]

**** tha police
Comin straight from the underground
Young nigga got it bad cuz I'm brown

Fascinating.

 

[Rizzo]

If it where my golfballs, I whould have gone after him. The stores? **** that. I don't care.

 

[VirusType2]

Robber breaks in.

Homeowner wakes up.

Confronts robber.

Homeowner: "Whoa whoa whoa man hold up a sec, lemme call the cops first"

Robber: "Alright alright thats cool. Let me know when you're done"

Homeowner: "Thanks"

Robber: "No problem"

Homeowner: "Hey help yourself to some stuff in the fridge if you'd like, and the remote is on the couch you might be able to catch some rated r movies this early in the morning."

:dozey:

Yeah, right.

Or...

Robber finds that your house is locked up and moves to an easier (and quieter) target. (this pretty much)

Or...

Robber sees you have a security system installed and doesn't break in.

Or...

Robber breaks in, but hears you wake up so he flees.

Or...

Robber breaks in and steals your thousands of dollars worth of guns and ammo when you aren't home, then uses them to kill people or sell it on the street to people and children that kill people or children, all with the registration of the weapon with your name on it. A stolen firearm is the most valuable kind.

Or...

Robber breaks in and steals your piece of shit VCR and some CD's that you hate, then leaves.

Or...

The 'Robber' happens to be family who is shot to death.

Or...

The Robber happens to be a 15 year old kid that doesn't need to die.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Robber breaks in and steals your thousands of dollars worth of guns and ammo when you aren't home, then uses them to kill people or sell it on the street to people and children that kill people or children, all with the registration of the weapon with your name on it. A stolen firearm is the most valuable kind.

You don't know what you're talking about. There is no registration of firearms with any tracing back to a name or anything like that, there would be a serious violent uprising if that became a law.

The only guns that are required registered are machine guns.

Also stolen firearms are the cheapest firearms. I could buy a nice colt1911 on the street for about $100. But it's hot and if you get caught with it you go straight to jail. If that gun can be traced back to a murder even then good luck having the DA not prosecute you for the murder just for being in posession of it. A clean (as in not stolen) nice 1911 buying used will cost you anywhere from about $500-800.

I don't know about where YOU live, but here in Phoenix there are home invasions every day, and it is VERY common for them to subdue homeowners, tie them up, and either beat and kill them while in process of looting the house. There is at least one a day on www.azcentral.com to read about. There is a lot of cartel violence here unlike other parts of the country and drop houses all around run by coyotes as well, and rival gangs will target random houses with home invasions in the neighborhoods they're in until they find the house (in order to steal the smuggled immigrants from the other gang). You never know what's going to happen to your house and you have to be prepared.

 

[Sheepo]

Amzingly, we've lost track of the original topic right after Rakurai was refuted on all of his arguments.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Amzingly, we've lost track of the original topic right after Rakurai was refuted on all of his arguments.

I wasn't "refuted" in anything. There is a section of the forum that thinks it's honorable to risk your life, risk your employer being sued for millions, AND endanger others over golf balls. There is another section of the forum who understands how foolish that is. That's about all that arose out of this thread.

 

[Sheepo]

Wow, the power to reduce all arguments to nothing through sidestepping what's actually said and using condescension. You are truly brilliant.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Wow, the power to reduce all arguments to nothing through sidestepping what's actually said and using condescension. You are truly brilliant.

I haven't sidestepped anything. The arguement boiled down to those points, and wasn't going to budge at all. Other people even came in and it still came down to the same points.

We're never going to agree and if you think that chasing a golf balls thief was the right thing for him to have done you're not going to stop thinking that.

Those of us who think he unnecessarily risked bodily harm to himself and others, as well as monetary harm to his employer, will still think what we think. No matter what anyone says.

 

[VirusType2]

You don't know what you're talking about. There is no registration of firearms with any tracing back to a name or anything like that, there would be a serious violent uprising if that became a law.

The only guns that are required registered are machine guns.

Oh, believe me, I do know what I'm talking about. All too well, I'm afraid.

If you've ever legally bought a gun in the United States - at least in any state on the East Coast (where I'm familiar with), you would know that it is registered in your name. I'm not sure how they do things down in the wild west, but honestly, I don't believe you.

Did you use an ID to purchase your firearms? OK, then it's registered in your name, tied to the serial number of the weapon.

Also stolen firearms are the cheapest firearms. I could buy a nice colt1911 on the street for about $100. But it's hot and if you get caught with it you go straight to jail. If that gun can be traced back to a murder even then good luck having the DA not prosecute you for the murder just for being in posession of it. A clean (as in not stolen) nice 1911 buying used will cost you anywhere from about $500-800.

Uh, I didn't say they were priceless or anything. They are valuable because they can't be traced back to the killer. Come on, even a wannabe gangster should know that.

I don't know about where YOU live, but here in Phoenix there are home invasions every day, and it is VERY common for them to subdue homeowners, tie them up, and either beat and kill them while in process of looting the house.

Well, the worst cities in America don't have this problem, so congratulations on not being apart of America. Another words, no no no, you're lying through your teeth. Prove it. If it happens every day, then it shouldn't be hard to find some convincing proof by way of news articles.

There is at least one a day on www.azcentral.com to read about. There is a lot of cartel violence here unlike other parts of the country and drop houses all around run by coyotes as well, and rival gangs will target random houses with home invasions in the neighborhoods they're in until they find the house (in order to steal the smuggled immigrants from the other gang). You never know what's going to happen to your house and you have to be prepared.

Really? Home Invasion, burglaries and murders? Wow, must be a slow week:

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Grande vato, you live in Balloon Boy town. I'll walk down the street in any street or ghetto in the US, and I don't worry about a damn thing because I don't flash a bunch of fake ice or look like a wannabe gangster. Peace, bro.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Oh, believe me, I do know what I'm talking about. All too well, I'm afraid.

No, you don't. Read below-

If you've ever legally bought a gun in the United States - at least in any state on the East Coast (where I'm familiar with), you would know that it is registered in your name. I'm not sure how they do things down in the wild west, but honestly, I don't believe you.

There is no registration of firearms here. Maybe your state has it, but that is NOT federal law.

Did you use an ID to purchase your firearms? OK, then it's registered in your name, tied to the serial number of the weapon.

You use an ID to prove to the FFL you are who you say you are. The FFL just calls your name into NCIS for background check. NCIS only can LEGALLY keep records for 30 days, and even then it's just a record that they did a background check on you- nothing with the serial number or gun model, etc.

Uh, I didn't say they were priceless or anything. They are valuable because they can't be traced back to the killer. Come on, even a wannabe gangster should know that.

They are LESS valuable. You don't know what you're talking about. It costs me less to buy a hot gun than a clean gun. Nobody wants a hot gun unless it is going to be a throwaway. Nobody wants hot guns for their personal that they carry. None can be traced because THERE ISNT HANDGUN REGISTRATION. All they can do with the serial number is find the manufacturer and try to work their way down the line to the buyer from there, only through the manufacturer and dealers voluntarily cooperating with them. Most of the time by the time they find the original buyer they had sold it at a gun show or to a random person anyway and aren't in posession anymore.

Well, the worst cities in America don't have this problem, so congratulations on not being apart of America. Another words, no no no, you're lying through your teeth. Prove it. If it happens every day, then it shouldn't be hard to find some convincing proof by way of news articles.

Oct 19th
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/10/19/20091019abrk-homeinvasion1019.html

Oct 15th
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/10/15/20091015abrk-phxhomeinvasion-ON.html

Oct 14th
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/10/14/20091014abrk-homeinvasionupdate1014.html

Oct 12th
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/10/12/20091012abrk-drughomeinvasion.html

Those are just for the most recent days search on home invasions. I could do a huge section on drop houses, gang shootings, murders, rapes, assaults, etc. The other day some girl got shot in the head at a park not far from my work. You have to be able to defend yourself here.

You live far from this type of stuff but it is spreading much faster than you want to believe and you're naive if you think otherwise.

Really? Home Invasion, burglaries and murders? Wow, must be a slow week:

Grande vato, you live in Balloon Boy town. I'll walk down the street in any street or ghetto in the US, and I don't worry about a damn thing because I don't flash a bunch of fake ice or look like a wannabe gangster. Peace, bro.

What the **** are you talking about? I do not live in Colorado I live in Phoenix. Maybe you have me confused with somebody else but I dont know where your balloon boy comment came from. Do you even read what you type?

 

[Adrik_Senturu]

Rakurai are you really trying to tell everyone here that Pheonix is suddenly one of the most dangerous cities in america or something because it's not.

 

[VirusType2]

From the news articles you posted (not in any particular order):

The man entered the victim's first-floor unit near 12th Street and Liberty Lane through an open kitchen window while the woman, who lived alone, was watching television, police said.

Officers received a call at 1:32 p.m. from a woman who said a man entered her unlocked home

Both of these crimes goes with what I was saying: keep your house locked and that will stop 99% of wannabe robbers.

large amount of marijuana, cash and weapons in the home.

Again, goes with what I was saying. You keep guns in your house, you are a target for theft.

Not enough detail on the 4th crime "the men entered the home", but it sounds like the door was not locked.


Ok, fair enough, you live in a ****ed up neighborhood. I'm not naive, I just am not a target like you. I meet gang members, and they don't see me as a possible gang member, so they are pretty cool to me, tbh.

How about stop looking like a gangster? Shave that shit off your face (or grow a real beard) so you look respectable. That's just my suggestion. If you were really concerned about your safety, and not just trying to be a bad ass, you wouldn't tell everyone that you had a firearm and plan on getting 'set' tattoos. You might have a rough neighborhood - hell, my family is from the Bronx, NY - but you don't command respect by talking a big game.

MS13 is around here as well but it's not been a big problem.

Why don't you - you know - move, if you are terrified for your life?

I do not live in Colorado I live in Phoenix. Maybe you have me confused with somebody else but I dont know where your balloon boy comment came from.

Oh, my fault. I saw that on the front page and laughed hard as shit. I thought that was your local news.

All they can do with the serial number is find the manufacturer and try to work their way down the line to the buyer from there, only through the manufacturer and dealers voluntarily cooperating with them. Most of the time by the time they find the original buyer they had sold it at a gun show or to a random person anyway and aren't in posession anymore.

Were do you get this stuff?

You might want to know that weapon you just bought it is permanently tied to your name, regardless if it is lost, sold, stolen, or destroyed, to the National Crime Information Center [NCIC] under property records:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCIC

as well as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms [ATF]

Firearms records, including lost or missing firearms

ORIGINAL FIREARM PURCHASE INFORMATION (FIREARMS TRACE REPORT)

This information is obtained directly from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.

ATF is responsible for regulating firearm commerce in the United States. The Bureau issues Federal Firearms Licenses (FFL) to sellers, and conducts firearms licensee inspections. The Bureau is also involved in programs aimed at reducing gun violence in the United States, by targeting and arresting, violent offenders who unlawfully possess firearms. ATF was also involved with the Youth Crime Gun Interdiction Initiative, which expanded tracing of firearms recovered by law enforcement, and the ongoing Comprehensive Crime Gun Tracing Initiative.[9] ATF also provides support to state and local investigators, through the National Integrated Ballistic Information Network (NIBIN) program.

So, you may well have sold it or whatever, but you will still be investigated as a possible suspect. They are heavily trained to read your eye and body movements, all kinds of details like blood flow to your face, etc. It won't be easy to get them off your back if you are guilty. In fact, you will forever be a possible suspect unless they find the real killer.

 

[Sheepo]

We're never going to agree and if you think that chasing a golf balls thief was the right thing for him to have done you're not going to stop thinking that.

You see, here you're intentionally characterizing him as a 'golf ball thief' to trivialize the crime and make the guard's actions seem silly and insignificant. The guard didn't chase down an 'armed thief', he chased a down 'golf ball thief'.

Those of us who think he unnecessarily risked bodily harm to himself and others, as well as monetary harm to his employer, will still think what we think. No matter what anyone says.

Well, we're never going to know how necessary it was because we won't ever going to go back in time and get to see the exact alternative, but you're ignoring the issue that pretty much every one but you thinks being threatened by a man with a knife and then letting him go warrants a greater danger than pursuing that man. I'm still not entirely sure what you think would happen in this hypothetical death chase, but I really just can't picture it.

 

[Krynn72]

While we're at this...

High speed police pursuits are ****ing stupid and cops go way too far in trying to catch someone who flees from them and they put the public in danger for very little reason.

 

[VirusType2]

I remember when I found out a friend of mine was killed while speeding away from the cops for a DUI marijuana. And she was only like 19. I don't think they should chase people who they think are under the influence, because their driving skill and judgment is impaired.

Instead, they should just find where they live from the license plate and drive to their house later or whatever, or follow from far back if possible.

Chasing drunk drivers or people under the influence of drugs at high speeds is really dangerous.

 

[Danimal]

They probably didn't know she was under the influence at the time of the chase.

Not defending the cops or anything, one threw a guy down the stairs last Saturday night outside a club near mine, his head split open, blood everywhere etc. and died after 3 hours of attempted resuscitation.

**** 'em.