want help optimizing your map for better performance?

[poseyjmac]

ive seen some great hl2dm and CS:S map releases already, but one thing that has been a problem for even the better looking maps is lack of a good framerate. it seems as though no area portals, hints, occluders are used to control visibility for quite a few maps ive played. great maps, but sub-par performance. which makes me go 'argh!'

now to the point. im taking a break from my prolonged mapping schedule for a while, so if you want to send me a .VMF file, i can attempt to optimize it, as a result, giving better framerates, through the use of

-area portals(open)
-hint brushes
-occluders

putting all changes I make into a separate visgroup, and even telling you WHY and HOW I did it so that you can do it in the future yourself. i can guarantee 99% that i can increase framerate in at least one area. and without getting rid of anything. only adding these occlusion-helping brushes.

why am i doing this? ive already played some great maps, but my main gripe has been performance issues even on my rig. so yes, its a selfish motive, lol. ultimately i want maps to run better, but i also want mappers to learn how to use these occlusion techniques if they haven't already, so they can do it themselves later.

[email protected] is the email address. send me a vmf and test me sometime. lets get those framerates up.

--

now if you don't feel comfortable sending a VMF. i(and maybe others) can try and give you advice on optimizing through screenshots or movies you provide of the map. although its more difficult to effectively help this way.

 

[Geronimous]

It's best to write an article / tutorials...

I do like the fact you offer your services. nice job.
Perhaps when I get stuck on this I'll contact you.

 

[Dead-Inside]

hl2werld has a GREAT optmizing tutorial. I haven't completed a map yet, but when I do I'll surely be using that article. It covers everything you need to know to improve performance on your map. Including how the engine works.

 

[MrMan]

I've added you to my MSN

 

[RoyalEF]

I haven't figured out a good place to use occluders in multiplayer maps. I did one quick test and saw a rather annoying vanish-appear syndrome with models suddenly showing up. It made it look like monsters appeared out of thin air. I'm not sure how to use this, other than in single-player maps where you have a monster hiding away someplace and you don't want the idle model counting in the framerates. I'm thinking there is a distance factor to be played with--but I haven't researched the entity enough.

 

[sabre0001]

cool that you offering to help (though you could be testing every piece of crud under the sun)

Enjoy!! (also thanks for the tips)

 

[NoisyMonk]

I think this is a great idea. But I think you should have some sort of guildlines, because like sabre0001 said, you might be getting alot of junk maps. Anyways, hopefully you won't think my map is junk, as you will probably be hearing from me in the near future

 

[Limpet]

I sent you an email, I also hope you dont think my map is junk

 

[poseyjmac]

I haven't figured out a good place to use occluders in multiplayer maps. I did one quick test and saw a rather annoying vanish-appear syndrome with models suddenly showing up. It made it look like monsters appeared out of thin air. I'm not sure how to use this, other than in single-player maps where you have a monster hiding away someplace and you don't want the idle model counting in the framerates. I'm thinking there is a distance factor to be played with--but I haven't researched the entity enough.

occluder use should be pretty rare for most maps, since they do take away performance to actually work. but really, sp or mp maps, if you are seeing into a leaf that has many models but you are nowhere near to seeing them, 1 occluder can work wonders for that.

---

ill make some guidelines if i start getting swamped. right now i just want to prove that im not just all talk

 

[poseyjmac]

hl2werld has a GREAT optmizing tutorial. I haven't completed a map yet, but when I do I'll surely be using that article. It covers everything you need to know to improve performance on your map. Including how the engine works.

yeah, i read it, its a good tutorial. but there are uses of area portals that i haven't seen any tutorial cover. these things are much more flexible than originally thought.

 

[Fender357]

I'm going to give you a shout when I get my map near done.

 

[Ravioli]

omg, guys, cant you see it, he is a scammer, how can you believe him? he might take your map and release it and say it was HE that created it.

HE WILL STEAL YOUR MAP!!! its happend to me once, dont trust this guy, wtf is he talking about anyway, a map is a map, hl2 is hl2, source is source, why optimazing or whatever he called it.

I am warning you, the moment you have sent your map, he will remove you from his MSN.

The warning has been given, your fate is now your own!

 

[NoisyMonk]

For the sake of your dignity, I really hope that you are joking.

 

[RoyalEF]

wtf is he talking about anyway, a map is a map, hl2 is hl2, source is source, why optimazing or whatever he called it.

Sadly, your maps clearly will need a lot of optimizing since you've no idea what he might be referring to. I guess we could give you the benefit of the doubt and assume English isn't your primary language.

 

[Ravioli]

im just saying that a mapper, NEVER, gives his map to a complet STRANGER.

 

[poseyjmac]

im just saying that a mapper, NEVER, gives his map to a complet STRANGER.

i agree with that. thats why im going to attempt to establish some credibility. thats why i said, test me

just got done area portaling someones map who emailed me, and framerate is now smooth as silk on my end, not to mention compile time is much faster(he had many brushes that could be turned into func_detail). im going to try and get permission from him to post some screens on the before and after pictures so i can show what i did, because its a really good example of a circular dm map which opens up to the sky.

 

[pur3r4ge]

I think it's really great of you to offer this. I might have a monster of a map for you to take a stab at in another month or so

As an aside: re: the whole "scammer" accusations; I used to map in the Unreal community, and something that's really nice about the unreal engine is that you can open up and alter every map that ships with the game, and every released map. As such, you don't get any of this paranoia that seems rampant in the HL2 community about "keeping your work secret". I've seen countless posts about people not releasing screens or betas of their maps for the contest because they don't want their ideas stolen. This is kind of sad and disgusting that the community is full of such mistrust, when being open and helpful to one another provides such great benefits for everyone.

Anyway, what can ya do. :shrug:

 

[Ravioli]

You might be a good guy poseyjmac or maybe not, im not the one to judge.

Let me see, all you do with their maps is to make some brushes funk_detail and make every surfice that you cant see nodraw and you minimaze the size of brushes and you maybe uses another Compiling tool, maybe change some Statics into the skybox, change the lights options?

 

[RedKetchup]

i agree with that. thats why im going to attempt to establish some credibility. thats why i said, test me

just got done area portaling someones map who emailed me, and framerate is now smooth as silk on my end, not to mention compile time is much faster(he had many brushes that could be turned into func_detail). im going to try and get permission from him to post some screens on the before and after pictures so i can show what i did, because its a really good example of a circular dm map which opens up to the sky.

A great job he did, some area has improve as much as 40fps, but most of all, the good explainations that came back with the edited .vmf.

Very valuable info, if eveyone who "knows" would share like Poseyjmac, the quality of maps would just get better n better, faster.

Had read alot about visibility/performance/compile time, mostly chinese too me, now it make sense, off to happy mapping! :cheers:

 

[The Dark Elf]

ive seen some great hl2dm and CS:S map releases already, but one thing that has been a problem for even the better looking maps is lack of a good framerate. it seems as though no area portals, hints, occluders are used to control visibility for quite a few maps ive played. great maps, but sub-par performance. which makes me go 'argh!'

now to the point. im taking a break from my prolonged mapping schedule for a while, so if you want to send me a .VMF file, i can attempt to optimize it, as a result, giving better framerates, through the use of

-area portals(open)
-hint brushes
-occluders

putting all changes I make into a separate visgroup, and even telling you WHY and HOW I did it so that you can do it in the future yourself. i can guarantee 99% that i can increase framerate in at least one area. and without getting rid of anything. only adding these occlusion-helping brushes.

why am i doing this? ive already played some great maps, but my main gripe has been performance issues even on my rig. so yes, its a selfish motive, lol. ultimately i want maps to run better, but i also want mappers to learn how to use these occlusion techniques if they haven't already, so they can do it themselves later.

[email protected] is the email address. send me a vmf and test me sometime. lets get those framerates up.

--

now if you don't feel comfortable sending a VMF. i(and maybe others) can try and give you advice on optimizing through screenshots or movies you provide of the map. although its more difficult to effectively help this way.

Can you backup these claims with examples you've made. I think before people go sending you work and trusting you, you should atleast prove you can do it. You say you want credability, thats probably the best way your gonna get it, and will stop you from having people question you like this in future

 

[timech187]

I just sent what I was working on. I hardly doubt somebody would come here to steal maps. Most folks are beginner mappers on these and other boards. Some of course, are not. But, I just don't see anyone trying to steal these maps.

Anyway, I think some folks should stop being so paranoid.

Accept help when it comes your way.

Timech

 

[RoyalEF]

Let me see, all you do with their maps is to make some brushes funk_detail and make every surfice that you cant see nodraw and you minimaze the size of brushes and you maybe uses another Compiling tool, maybe change some Statics into the skybox, change the lights options?

Only in-game surfaces that can't be seen should be no draw, such as the backside of objects the player isn't allowed to get near, or the top ridge of a cliff or building. There are old internet legends the tell people to put skip/nodraw on the faces of brushes that butt up against other brushes.

Changing statics into skybox? I would think that would produce weird effects, especially if the static were in a buildin or underground.

He also mentioned implementing area portal and hint brushes.

A lot--hell most-- people don't really understand all the geometry in VIS calculations and they don't make all the right choices. There is also the issue of sloppy brush construction where world brushes constantly overlap and embed in one another. Another way to trash VIS and your FPS.

One thing that confused me was Dark ELf asking if Posey could backup his claims. I looked at their post count. Dark elf is over 13,000 (is that right?!!?) and Posey is near 4,000!!! I would thik you two would have seen eachother around a lot and gotten a gauge on if the other had a clue where HL was concerned. I know from other boards who is knowledgeable and who isn't. With 4,000 and 13,000 posts the answer should be obvious. Mind you, I've been a member of the board longer than both of you, but my posts are a measly 330. However I'm thinking 99.99% of the posts on HL2.net in the past have been of the useless variety.

 

[poseyjmac]

However I'm thinking 99.99% of the posts on HL2.net in the past have been of the useless variety.

only Dark elf's posts. kidding! :smoking:

its ok. ive just never come across like i know a whole lot about what im talking about. its just in the past month or so, i spent hours trying different ways to area portal, hint, occlude. mostly my map dm_chameleon, because thats a pain to optimize, with one window looking straight on through to the other side in a tall skybox.

im about to post some good info and pics on what i did on redketchups map with area portals and a method of area portaling i like to call area portal tunnels which are great for using outside. and some pics of framerate before and after. also ill show a few pics of some optimizing i did on dm_chameleon

 

[poseyjmac]

Ok, here are some pics of area portaling that i did on redketchups map, and also on my map. i suck at giving tutorials but maybe this will help:

Here is an area portal tunnel. see how it seals the balcony area. this is so when you go out on the balcony and look inside the house, it doesn't draw everything outside. they are open too. gave me a nice boost in FPS looking into the house.

and this is near the back. see, area portals can be used as ceilings to seal a chunk of your map from the outside.

here is a chunk of redketchups map, area portaled. big skybox? no problem. as long as there is something relatively big to block vis. just seal in a chunk where players will be.

and here are some before and after framerates on this map:

this is on my rig which is x800xt, and at 1600x1200 2xAA, 8xAF. so those are some nice framerates.

so, you don't want to just go around making an entire tunnel of area portals throughout your map, that wouldn't be smart. i wish i could convey when and where to use them exactly. but its hard to convey. the usage is similar to hints, but these kick hint brushes's asses and are more effective. just placing one or two area portals in a door way isn't going to do as much as sealing a section of your map with them.

also, area portal tunnels aren't easy to get to work, because you have to construct the whole tunnel before testing it, and by then if you've messed up on just one sheet, it won't work.

 

[Empty_Clip???]

really impressed posey, ill definately be sending my work your way

 

[timech187]

Could you put up more example images of where and when you might optimize? I have this big map now, with two fairly complex (at least in my mind) buildings. In the middle of my map (outdoors) I have a tower.

It's a two-fort style map, fairly large, wide open with the two buildings and tower. Displacements, some dustmotes and the like.

I would love to see where I might could use some of these optimization techniques.

Thanks again Posey!

Timech

 

[poseyjmac]

i would if i could, but i just don't know where and when until i see an actual bsp/vmf that i can fly around in.

can these two complex buildings see each other fully + the tower? also, scale is important to know

 

[Exavior]

Given the fact that this person has over 4,000 posts here, it is clear he has a vested interest in this forum. I doubt he would want to get banned or obtain a bad reputation over stealing someone else's map. And chances are, most maps he get would not be worth stealing.

I'm very tempted to ask for you to help optimize my map, because I've had a hell of a time figuring out occluders/hints/portals. But the map in question would be a lot of work to optimize.

The project I'm working on is the construction of a full-scale LA apartment building, in a classic "donut" style layout that is very common to southern California. The problem with this layout is that many high detail areas can see into one another. This shot here gives you an idea of how the "donut" style building basically lets you see through the entire building due to all the windows/doors, large central court yard, and outer road area.

Normally I would change the layout to help optimize performance, but this map is designed to be a set for live machinima performance, and is not intended for regular game play.

If you would like to help me optimize this map, please contact me. MSN is "[email protected]" AIM is "VJ Exavior"

 

[RoyalEF]

Exavior that wouldn't be as hard as you think. Don't worry about HINTs, they are really best only when you are done with maps.

I think Areaportals are much easier to implement and more powerful.

ANd your construction should be easy. The biggest worry is paying attention to what is WORLD and what is ENTITY. And the quickest way to see that is TURN off your AUTO VisGroup. All you'll see is world brushes. this is the view you should do area portalling in.

For each room you would portal openings. Windows & doors. You shouldn't have any gaps or holes in your walls otherwise. Doors get tied to func_doors if you have any. AP's are one unit thick and should be embedded within the func_dorr when the door is closed. The initial state should be open, except when your func_door has an initial state that is closed(it should start in sync with the door)-- I think I got that right.

Basically that will make it easy for the negine to rule out all rooms (including whole apartments) where a window or door is not in sight. Yes the courtyard has a big open view, but you can't change that. All you can do is optimize it so it is the LEAST possible.

 

[Exavior]

Cool, thanks.

I sent a stripped down version of the map (no modles, most non-structural brushes removed, and no textures) to poseyjmac and he's helping get me started down the optimization path.

 

[poseyjmac]

thought i would share this since its happened a couple times to people who placed area portals in their map and heres an example.

when you're placing area portals you should uncheck AUTO, so that all you see are world brushes. this person was getting an area portal error(not touching 2 sides)

looks fine right? well this is the view with everything. but when we go to world brushes only, we see that the area portal isn't actually touching a world brush on one side giving an error for both area portals in that room.

unchecking auto and see world brushes only is also a good way to hunt for brushes that could be func_detail.

 

[Fender357]

Neat info poseyjmac. I still don't entierly get it though. I've read the thing on VERC and everything and I still don't get what the Area Portal actualy does. I mean...you say that it increases performance...but how? I mean...what is it doing? It boggles the brain!

 

[a55b0t]

Haw. That is a good tip about what visgroups to use to see things better. Nice job. I probably would have found that if I would have checked my compile log or loaded the pointfile but normally my map just crashes if it gets errors like that.

I also like how obvious it is that I need to fix up that crap texture work some more.

edit: Fender - I believe portals work by sealing of different areas of your map. Then if you can't actually see one of the portals then it doesn't draw the area inside.

edit x2: I have a quick question. Is it ok to make a detail object out of a large groups of brushes? From what I've seen it doesn't seem too bad because it still seams to only draw the visible pieces. I've made a few big groups and I am tempted to slim them down a bit but I don't know if it is worth the trouble.

 

[Limpet]

Does anyone know what the Occluder "" stradles multiple areas error means. I've fixed them in the past but didn't know what I was really doing.

 

[Fender357]

Question.... by doing these things with area portles.....would that possibly help with world rendering? My map seems to suddenly not be able to get higher than 50 fps and world rendering is the one with the highest peak time.

 

[poseyjmac]

a55bot: as far as i know grouping together brushes is only considered by hammer as something to help the mapper out, and the actual rendering does not consider them. but if someone knows more about this, feel free to correct me

limpet: it can be a few things. for instance if 1 occluder is in 2 areas sectioned off by an area portal. occluders can be very bitchy, ive had to keep some 1 unit away from world brushes to stop getting that error as well. the sdk documentation says they can be freestanding, but doesn't mention that they will complain as much as they do.

fender: yes. area portals help block everything, especially useful for blocking world rendering. depending on the layout of course!

ive had people send their maps via email to get help and put in some area portals, and for a few of them, area portals just simply wouldn't help at all because their map was too wide open. area portals are very conditional, and more and more people are finding out that with some layouts, you just can't get good framerates no matter how many portals, and hints you throw into the level.

 

[Fender357]

I don't have too many open wide areas. My map isn't totaly compleat...(Edit) NM...your email was already on here....ok, check your e-mail...i'm sending it now! (and it's going to be a rar, since its too big to e-mail otherwise)

 

[poseyjmac]

[email protected]

 

[Exavior]

I have run into an optimization problem with my map, and I'm hoping someone here has the answer.

I've had to remove _all_ area portals from my map, because they (some how) mess up water reflections. The water still reflects the world, but when you move around, the reflection moves with you. So I can walk past a body of water, rotate my view, and the reflection would be the same image shown on the water when I first walked up to it. (Hope that is clear, it's not an easy error to describe) And at times, some areas don't even have reflections. (This depends on what angle I look at the water from)

When I remove the area portals, the reflections work fine.

I hope someone knows a way around this problem, since it prevents me from using area portals, which are badly needed in my map.

/Exavior

 

[Dekstar]

Sweet. This sounds good. Always good to have people wanting to help the community with things. I tell you, if, on my next map test, people get low FPS, I'll be sending my map your way!

-Dekstar