Water enviorments

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[Born][nBk]

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Do you guys think the next year we will see water waves and detailed like on farcry where the ocean was just flat but it still looked cool but i wanna see a game that will render Real-time water effects such as detailed waves and the current of the water flow like it will flow faster in some spots and slower in the others
 
It's a lot of effort for such little gain. It wouldn't affect the game in any way, but in a few years it would look nice, so maybe when we have more processing power.
 
ya i cant imagine the lag on doom 3 style lighting on a dark room with a light just before the waterlevel
 
I can see ripples being the easiest as shader effects but waves and water movement is really out there.
 
has this been done before in a game: an organic substence on the wall unscripfedly reaches out and sucks you in??
 
Water physics is next I think. It would be awsome , a wave of water flooding a room , or just water filling something without a crappy 'brush-x moves up like this' effect
 
fluid dynamics are cool, wave racers on n64 was pretty impressive at the time and probably still is. (maybe) :p
 
I would say MAX 2 years we will see real time water effects.
 
Punctuation on the first post would have made me understand what he was asking about without reading the whole thread, lol.

Is he asking about fluid dynamics, in a way?
 
hehe i loved wave race and still play it on emulators sometimes today :p
and i too agree that real-time water would be pretty but i don't see a use for it other than being eye-candy.
 
Guys, fluid dynamics is the hardest physical simulation that can be computed. That amount of computational power that is required to simulate a wave/water filling a room is astronomical; you would need a render farm or super computer to pull that effect off. I think the next thing in graphics will be the prevalent use of sub-surface scattering. An amazing technology that is already capable on the x800 and 6800. But water simulations that realistic are about 10 years off, going strictly on the progression of computational power alone.

---​

EDIT: If anyone wishes to discuss the actual process it would take, then let me know and I will explain.
 
The next step in graphics is seen in Unreal 3. They don't have the water thingy.

Sorry.

Maybe in 10 years.
 
mirageacg said:
EDIT: If anyone wishes to discuss the actual process it would take, then let me know and I will explain.
Click to expand...

If you have the time, I'd like to know more about it. Sounds very interesting!
 
Well, Black and White 2 claims to have a form of realtime fluid dynamics... fluids like water and lava conform to the terrain and react to gravity...
 
Do you guys think the next year we will see water waves and detailed like on farcry where the ocean was just flat but it still looked cool but i wanna see a game that will render Real-time water effects such as detailed waves and the current of the water flow like it will flow faster in some spots and slower in the others
Click to expand...

Super Mario Sunshine..
 
[Born][nBk] said:
Do you guys think the next year we will see water waves and detailed like on farcry where the ocean was just flat but it still looked cool but i wanna see a game that will render Real-time water effects such as detailed waves and the current of the water flow like it will flow faster in some spots and slower in the others
Click to expand...
There are these things...they're called periods. <---There is one. Oh! Another!
 
I'm not sure what it is with HL2 fans and fluid dynamics. They almost seem obsessed with it, and every time it comes up, you have to question whether they really know what they're asking for. As everyone's already explained, it won't be around for years yet, and even then it's debatable whether anyone will really have a good use for it. It's much easier to simulate simple water effects, and achieve more or less the same result, than by going with full blown "fluid dynamics".

We're barely at the stage where we're seeing interactions between solids, and those are much more relevant to games, yet are still far from complete. All we seem to have at the moment is some embelishment on simple Newtonian physics between point masses. There are still many, many, more useful things we can improve in terms of game physics before we even touch fluid dynamics.
 
Next year, no. But within 6-7. I've been gaming for quite a while (early 80's), and know that it takes roughly 7 years for game tech to reach a level where you can look at a game, and compare it to a game made 7 years prior, and go, "Wow!!! I didn't realize ABC game was so much cooler looking than XYZ game!! When did THAT happen!!?" That's the kind of change that's gotta occur in order for us to have shit like fluid dynamics and simulated wave motion.
 
DimitriPopov said:
Water physics is next I think. It would be awsome , a wave of water flooding a room , or just water filling something without a crappy 'brush-x moves up like this' effect
Click to expand...

No it isn't. You could probably do it, if that was the only thing the comp had to do.

We'll be seeing it in min. 2 years ("real water")
 
You have to be careful what your asking for as Wave Dynamics have already been "simulated" in the likes of Wave Race and NGC Wave Race.

If your asking for a level in for instance HL were the water "gushes" down a slope filling the bottom first and moving all objects on the slope down via force. thats fluid dynamics. And to be honest I cant see it being avalible for a good few years yet. and beside that I cant think of any use for it outside of "gimmicky-prettyness"

So with that inhand im gonna say... iD will bring out fluid dynamics first... They are the kings of "Gimmicky-Prettyness" above gameplay and story.

Case closed :)
 
Guys, fluid dynamics is the hardest physical simulation that can be computed. That amount of computational power that is required to simulate a wave/water filling a room is astronomical; you would need a render farm or super computer to pull that effect off. I think the next thing in graphics will be the prevalent use of sub-surface scattering. An amazing technology that is already capable on the x800 and 6800. But water simulations that realistic are about 10 years off, going strictly on the progression of computational power alone.
Click to expand...

Exactly my work entails stuff like fluid dynamics and to be honest we are a LONG way from the computational power to do stuff like that. Admitadley a wave or current could be botched to look right but building a simulation of water that involves more than a fancy top layer with some blue underneath and having it flood a room creating foam vorticies etc. will take at least 10 - 20 times the cpu power we have now to do in real time.
 
You would not need to calculate fluid dynamics to simulate waves in water - a mere moving displacement map of a wave shape would suffice... There's always shortcuts that suffice in simulating things, without having the masses of code that does just as good a job.

I don't think it would be a hard mod to make that combines displacement maps with the water shader to generate realistic-looking waves.
 
We don't need real water. We just need to simulate it. Programmers usually find ways to do certain effects faster. I use a CG program called cinema 4d. It can do this liquid effect (called metaballs) by surrounding a point with a sphere of polygons. And they stick to other polygons of the same type to produce a liquid type effect. You really need to look at the link to make sense of it. http://www.vrac.iastate.edu/~jeffdr/ogl/metaballs.jpg . You would control the water by moving the points. Many points would make a body of water. A few would look like drops of water. If were applied to a game I sure it would need to be specialized to do something specific. i.e. ocean water, river, or rain. Other optimization should and could be made for each situation. I'm not saying it can be done for sure in game but I hope it will be soon.
 
not technically correct I think this is mainly because your talking about CG and not real time manipulation.

You can have a simple flooding effect in HL but if you want a slightly more realistic one I dont really think thats possible yet. for example you could flood a room in halflife bottom to top (as was done in opposing force) but you couldnt have the water "Gush" through a door and equalise at a level in both rooms (similar to a canal gate) this wouldnt be possible
 
When I'm working with the program it does it real time. Its quite fun moving the blobs around in real time.
 
NetWarriorDan said:
We don't need real water. We just need to simulate it. Programmers usually find ways to do certain effects faster. I use a CG program called cinema 4d. It can do this liquid effect (called metaballs) by surrounding a point with a sphere of polygons. And they stick to other polygons of the same type to produce a liquid type effect. You really need to look at the link to make sense of it. http://www.vrac.iastate.edu/~jeffdr/ogl/metaballs.jpg . You would control the water by moving the points. Many points would make a body of water. A few would look like drops of water. If were applied to a game I sure it would need to be specialized to do something specific. i.e. ocean water, river, or rain. Other optimization should and could be made for each situation. I'm not saying it can be done for sure in game but I hope it will be soon.
Click to expand...


i take it that's how they make realistic water droplets and rain in movies... very interesting :thumbs:
 
Uhm. Has anyone seen the RealFlow tech from Next Limit ?? Checkout Gallery --> Videos.

That seems pretty good to me.

I think it's a must to check this out!
 
think of how many "blobs" would be required to meet the effect requirements that are required in a game. To fill the Garg pool in the original HL (were the cross bow is first obtained)
 
eth8686 said:
Uhm. Has anyone seen the RealFlow tech from Next Limit ?? Checkout Gallery --> Videos.

That seems pretty good to me.

I think it's a must to check this out!
Click to expand...

gotta love them video's but it was posted in the previous "fluid-dynamics" posts :)

LOL us HL2 fans just seem to love the fluids for some reason.
 
wow, the video with the water pouring into the glass then it spins round and does a matrix effect is amazing! :D
 
Andy018 said:
gotta love them video's but it was posted in the previous "fluid-dynamics" posts :)

LOL us HL2 fans just seem to love the fluids for some reason.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I know. That's were I got it from :D

Thought I should bring it up again since nobody knows how to use the search button. :rolleyes:
 
I reckon you could do a large volume by dynamically making the "balls" all different sizes. Large ones in the center, small ones on the edges. Less computation.
 
Brian Damage said:
I reckon you could do a large volume by dynamically making the "balls" all different sizes. Large ones in the center, small ones on the edges. Less computation.
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be all well but at the same time you have to be calculating physics, doing the ai, rendering the rest of the scene, audio, taking input from the user and keeping track of other various things.... all 30 times every second... The other people aren't saying it isn't possible, they are saying that with today's power it isn't possible in a game engine...
 
tss.. its just water, cmon.. its rippled, its translucent, and it splashes when you shoot at it.. nothing more to it
 
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