Weapons info directly from Valve

[LoneDeranger]

Rather then speculating here on the forums, I decided to interview Gabe via email and see what he thinks :cheers:

Here is what I got so far:

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In the E3 technology demo, Gordon uses a different kind of manipulator (one that moves objects around with a blue beam as opposed to throwing them). Will this weapon be in the final game? Is it like a secondary attack for the regular manipulator?

It's a different weapon.

Also, in the video Gordon drops his shotgun in order to pick up the RPG. Does this mean we would only be able to carry a certain amount of weapons at the same time?

We're tinkering with inventory and weapon management.
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More to come!

 

[undertoe]

post all the info you have mate

 

[Apos]

Wow: I thought Gabe had gone into something of a period of blackout from responding to people: post e3 he was writing back to lots of people, but since then he seemed to have cut down quite a bit. He must be swamped with people begging him for info. Good job on getting him to respond.

 

[Bilko]

Wow, thanks alot LoneDeranger, you the man! :afro:

 

[simmo]

kewl d00d!

Theres gonna be so much we dont know when the game comes out!! i cant wait!!! 99 days ?

 

[NiteStalker]

Yup, 99 days. I want it now!

 

[Jagermeister]

Thanks for posting, LoneDeranger. Anyone else emailing Gabe?

 

[Guest]

Gabe Newell get probally 20.000 emails with questions like this... :/

 

[GOoch]

Had 2 emails from gabe relating to different stuff other than weapons.

 

[Guest]

whats his email?

 

[righte0us]

you really think he will post his email on a message board?

 

[Guest]

you really think he got secret email address?

:/

I was talking about his public address twat

 

[EVIL]

search for it yourself or else his mail will be flooded with annoying questions if we would post it here.

 

[Zerox]

Nice one, Dude!

 

[Apos]

search for it yourself or else his mail will be flooded with annoying questions if we would post it here.

Yeah, it's a real big secret, considering it's posted on his freakin company website.

 

[Dan]

He has icq and msn too, but he's never on

 

[FiShEh]

or hes blocked your ass

 

[EVIL]

I know its on the company's website. but there are still peeps that are DUMB and CANT find it and they come looking or the adress here. and sinse they are DUMB they are propabbly going to ASK DUMB THINGS. and I want to protect gabe against that kind of PEOPLE/MUTANTS whatever you want to call them

 

[Lordblackadder]

Inventory and weapons management... hmmm.

Would be interesting if that became more realistic.

Or not.

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

Originally posted by Lordblackadder
Inventory and weapons management... hmmm.

Would be interesting if that became more realistic.

Or not.

why is it that we can always expect such a great response from you?

no seriously...you seem to quite often comment on something and then in the end close it off with "or not..." or something similar negating...

now I know that none of us can be sure and all but...

makes you wonder if there's even a point for you to post first time around

 

[PriNcE oF SpAcE]

I wonder if by saying "it's a different weapon" he also meant that it would actually be in the final build....and uhm...anyone else than me that thinks that it's a bit odd to add two weapons with such similar effects(after all the blue thingy could have been alt. fire for the other thingy...as far as I can tell atleast)

 

[Lordblackadder]

Originally posted by PriNcE oF SpAcE
why is it that we can always expect such a great response from you?

no seriously...you seem to quite often comment on something and then in the end close it off with "or not..." or something similar negating...

now I know that none of us can be sure and all but...

makes you wonder if there's even a point for you to post first time around

Why I appreciate that you find my musings interesting. All I mean is that some realisticness might be cool for it's own sake but may be lousy for gameplay. Carrying a limited # of guns and therefore dumping some while picking up others, may be a nifty thing to do, but you might not want to put up with it in every game.

Since HL2 won't be out for a while, we must be prepared for the fact that some of the cool things we're anticipating might be bad for gameplay, but we won't realize that until we actually play the game.

 

[Apos]

One of the interviews stated that the beam gun wouldn't be in the game, but even if that's true, it's sure to be in the code, ready to use in mods and development.

 

[djkanuk]

I think that we've assumed (or many of us, to be fair) that the blue-beam manipulator from the tech demo was an earlier build of the same manipulator seen later in the game demo. That these are two different weapons might explain the earlier comment that the "manipulator" isn't in the game. Maybe the blue-beam thingy isn't, but the other manipulator from the gameplay demo will be.

While I'm on the subject, PC Gamer says something about picking up a brick and throwing it as a weapon. Has there been any other discussion about how objects might be manipulated by hand, rather than by the "manipulator"? Use-button, or some other method?

 

[LoneDeranger]

It's still not clear whether or not it's in the final game. But if it is, it means that we could throw dead bodies around which would kick ass.

 

[djkanuk]

Whether it is in or not, I think it would feel odd that Gordon wouldn't be able to pick up something like a soda bottle with anything other than a futuristic alien device. Gordon does have hands, doesn't he?

 

[LoneDeranger]

Originally posted by djkanuk
Whether it is in or not, I think it would feel odd that Gordon wouldn't be able to pick up something like a soda bottle with anything other than a futuristic alien device. Gordon does have hands, doesn't he?

Yes, however this would mean they would have to design a separate model with Gordon holding whatever "stuff" he picks up because your hands hold each object differently. In the manipulator it sort of floats in front of you.

Besides, having hands would give people the wrong ideas when interacting with certain NPC's.

 

[snark^]

Originally posted by LoneDeranger
Besides, having hands would give people the wrong ideas when interacting with certain NPC's.

Alyx: "Gordon, stop it... you're groping me again."

 

[derby]

that was pretty funny, snark^!

(hl2 video reference)

 

[djkanuk]

True enough, LoneDeranger, but I hope they find some way around it anyway. Maybe you can hold objects in your hand above your head, and then throw them, so we wouldn't need to see the actual hand model 'gripping' anything. Or, I dunno. I'm sure the folks at Valve are way smarter than me about this.

 

[worldspawn]

Originally posted by djkanuk
True enough, LoneDeranger, but I hope they find some way around it anyway. Maybe you can hold objects in your hand above your head, and then throw them, so we wouldn't need to see the actual hand model 'gripping' anything. Or, I dunno. I'm sure the folks at Valve are way smarter than me about this.

say.. if you DID have a cool crazy device that could pick things up for you, why the hell would you use your hands?

 

[Stigmata]

Originally posted by LoneDeranger
Yes, however this would mean they would have to design a separate model with Gordon holding whatever "stuff" he picks up because your hands hold each object differently.

Not sure if Valve has the time to do this, but there is a workaround to this. The enemies actually self-animate (most noticable is the Strider) using inverse kinematics. What I.K. does is instead of moving the skeletal pieces of the model based on a predefined animation, it determines where a certain part of a model needs to reach, and moves the joints of the skeleton accordingly.

So, Valve could use this tech for the hand picking up an object. If you pick up a bottle, the palm and fingers would conform around the bottle, and if you pick up a brick the fingers conform differently to the angled shape of the brick. And if the object is too big for one hand, the 2nd hand comes in to pick it up on the other side.

 

[djkanuk]

Originally posted by stigmata
Not sure if Valve has the time to do this, but there is a workaround to this. The enemies actually self-animate (most noticable is the Strider) using inverse kinematics. What I.K. does is instead of moving the skeletal pieces of the model based on a predefined animation, it determines where a certain part of a model needs to reach, and moves the joints of the skeleton accordingly.

Sounds a bit complicated, and would use too much processor power, just for manipulating objects.

And as for why you would use your hands instead of a really cool crazy device... I'm sure Gordon won't always be equipped with the Gravity Gun. Looks like a pretty special piece of equipment... unless it's built into the HEV.... hmmm.

 

[Apos]

I doubt we'll see a hand grab, mostly because it just doesn't fit the game. Having a special weapon that picks up objects is much more in line with the game type.

Deus Ex 2 solves the problem by simply having the object float in front of you, not showing hands at all, but down low enough so that you could be holding it offscreen.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Originally posted by stigmata
Not sure if Valve has the time to do this, but there is a workaround to this. The enemies actually self-animate (most noticable is the Strider) using inverse kinematics. What I.K. does is instead of moving the skeletal pieces of the model based on a predefined animation, it determines where a certain part of a model needs to reach, and moves the joints of the skeleton accordingly.

So, Valve could use this tech for the hand picking up an object. If you pick up a bottle, the palm and fingers would conform around the bottle, and if you pick up a brick the fingers conform differently to the angled shape of the brick. And if the object is too big for one hand, the 2nd hand comes in to pick it up on the other side.

Hmm, interesting point. However they would still need an updated model for the object, because I think the in-game soda can probably does not have that many polys (relatively speaking). Also there are some technical issues (i.e. how the hell do you hold a chair the right way? )

 

[djkanuk]

Just read PC Gamer again, and noticed something I missed on first read. On pg 56 he talks about interacting with objects,

you'll be able to pick up nearly an item that you could in the real world-- say a chair or a box-- and toss it as a weapon or hold it in front of you as a shield.

First read I just assumed he was talking about the gravity gun, like in the video. But the gravity gun isn't mentioned in the article, only in the sidebar. So they must be talking about holding stuff in your hands. He also says, "he grabbed a metal grate lying on the ground next to him." GRABBED

Ok, so I was even sceptical, and figured the 'other' orange manipulator might be built in to the HEV to avoid having to do complicated object manipulation animations. So I checked the video. The orange gravity gun doesn't look like it's part of the suit- looks like it was built from spare parts of an old vacuum cleaner. But the really interesting part was in the Ant Lion scene. Sure, when Gordon is holding the pheremone, there's a static 'hold' animation in front of you. But watch when he throws it. The arm comes from out of the upper right of the screen, but in no frame is he actually holding the 'ball' of pheremones. I figure this is a generic animation they'll use for throwing all objects (at least the ones that Gordon can lift without the help of the gravity gun). When you're holding them, I figure they'll do what Apos says happens in Deus X, just kinda have it float at the bottom of the screen as if you were holding it, but without seeing your hand.

 

[worldspawn]

Originally posted by djkanuk
Just read PC Gamer again, and noticed something I missed on first read. On pg 56 he talks about interacting with objects, First read I just assumed he was talking about the gravity gun, like in the video. But the gravity gun isn't mentioned in the article, only in the sidebar. So they must be talking about holding stuff in your hands. He also says, "he grabbed a metal grate lying on the ground next to him." GRABBED

Ok, so I was even sceptical, and figured the 'other' orange manipulator might be built in to the HEV to avoid having to do complicated object manipulation animations. So I checked the video. The orange gravity gun doesn't look like it's part of the suit- looks like it was built from spare parts of an old vacuum cleaner. But the really interesting part was in the Ant Lion scene. Sure, when Gordon is holding the pheremone, there's a static 'hold' animation in front of you. But watch when he throws it. The arm comes from out of the upper right of the screen, but in no frame is he actually holding the 'ball' of pheremones. I figure this is a generic animation they'll use for throwing all objects (at least the ones that Gordon can lift without the help of the gravity gun). When you're holding them, I figure they'll do what Apos says happens in Deus X, just kinda have it float at the bottom of the screen as if you were holding it, but without seeing your hand.

the pheremone grenades are a weapon.. notice how he picked them up in groups? .... this animation was done by animators at valve.. it wasn't using i.k.

the only way you will be able to pick things up with in hl2 is with the manipulator.. i don't know what the hell you're expecting out of this game.

WHY if they had the technology for you to pick up any item, would it not be shown in ANY of the released videos or screenshots?

you're wrong.

 

[Stigmata]

WHY if they had the technology for you to pick up any item, would it not be shown in ANY of the released videos or screenshots?

you're wrong.

On that note, why didn't they just show us everything they'd done so far at E3, all the enemies, levels, weapons? Hell, why didn't they just show us HL2 years ago?

the only way you will be able to pick things up with in hl2 is with the manipulator.. i don't know what the hell you're expecting out of this game.

Did Gabe every say we will only be able to pick stuff up with the Manipulator? No. But in the PC Gamer article, there *is* a part where it says that Freeman (controlled by Gabe) was pinned down by an autoturret, so he grabbed a metal grade, used it as a shield, and threw it to knock the gun over. He GRABBED it and THREW it. This obviously means he used the Manipulator.

 

[worldspawn]

Originally posted by stigmata
Did Gabe every say we will only be able to pick stuff up with the Manipulator? No. But in the PC Gamer article, there *is* a part where it says that Freeman (controlled by Gabe) was pinned down by an autoturret, so he grabbed a metal grade, used it as a shield, and threw it to knock the gun over. He GRABBED it and THREW it. This obviously means he used the Manipulator.

yes, grabbed it with the manipulator, then threw it with the manipulator, just like in the part with the water heater.

you'll be proven wrong come release day.

 

[Stigmata]

Originally posted by worldspawn

Originally posted by stigmata
Did Gabe every say we will only be able to pick stuff up with the Manipulator? No. But in the PC Gamer article, there *is* a part where it says that Freeman (controlled by Gabe) was pinned down by an autoturret, so he grabbed a metal grade, used it as a shield, and threw it to knock the gun over. He GRABBED it and THREW it. This obviously means he used the Manipulator.

yes, grabbed it with the manipulator, then threw it with the manipulator, just like in the part with the water heater.
you'll be proven wrong come release day.

Okay, wait just a sec. Read the article (if you have it on hand, if you dont just search for the scans). It doesn't say ANYTHING about the Manipulator in that paragraph, does it? It seems you've missed the entire point to my previous post, which was to point out that that part of the article didn't mention the Manipulator, which means that it's possible and very likely you will be able to pick up any object on the ground and use it as a weapon.