weed..whats the big deal??

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by LoneDeranger
I'm fascinated how people now claim that legal drugs (alcahol and tobacco) are somehow worse then illegal ones.

i'm not saying crack, coke, and heroin are good for you at all...but pot is different.

cigarettes cause 400,000 deaths per year in the US.

go look up accident statistics...so many alcohol-related accidents it's silly...no matter how tough the drunk driving laws are.

marijuana just causes tons of people to go to jail just because they smoke pot, not because they actually committed a crime other than smoking pot.

i wish i could find some statistics relating marijuana users' criminal records. i bet a huge percentage of them have no other crimes on their record other than marijuana related crimes. i bet the rate of violent crimes among pot users is really low as well...probably on par with the rest of the population or only slightly elevated.

 

[MrD]

Originally posted by pat_thetic
What did I say that was illiterate in that post? I'm sorry I (get this) have a life and don't have time to write 5 page long essays on why weed should be illegal. Resorting to flaming isn't going to do much.

EDIT: there is no point in argueing so I will not post again unless you decide to flame me.

Oh! Wow! You have a life! I am so envious, I feel so completely undeserving of your presence now. If only we'd realised then we wouldn't have wasted all that time arguing with you. How silly of us to forget that people who have lives are completely excused from making any worthwhile comments in conversations they take part in.

 

[Maskirovka]

hmm, i wonder if pat will now...

A: make a thoughtful post
B: stop posting
C: make another post just like every other one he's made.
D: tell us all to "get a life"

i vote for some combination of C and D.

 

[NJD2003]

Wow, 13 pages of pure nonsense. What a waste of time, no one is going to budge on their opinions or beliefs, get over it.

 

[Maskirovka]

Originally posted by NJD2003
Wow, 13 pages of pure nonsense. What a waste of time, no one is going to budge on their opinions or beliefs, get over it.

another illiterate one, guys! there are 33 pages, not 13...jesus.

telling someone what to do with their time is just stupid...if someone considers it worthwhile enough to post repeatedly about it, then you're wasting your time telling them it's a waste of time.

Originally posted by Maskirovka
saying something will never happen is just wrong.

things change because people who believe in causes stand up for what they believe in

and i believe responsible adults have the right to do whatever they want (as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others) without people telling them they're doing something bad or in this case, wasting their time.

go buy a new attitude that doesn't involve "oh forget about it...just accept things as they are"
imo, that kind of attitude is destructive to a society because it prevents change.

 

[LazarusAfoot]

Problem with your premise.

Here is the truth. The bottom line.

If you make weed more available to the public, then you spread its use. If you spread its use, then the negative aspects spread with it. Legalizing weed doesnt abolis hthe negative aspects of weed, it gives them free reign on our society. Weed is harmful lto our society in its controlled state, making it uncontrolled will only increase how harmfull it is. Anyone can see this.

The assumptions you are making a very subjective and not very scientific. Lets take your first one: Weed is "harmfull" (sic):
Every substance is harmful in excess. Many of the food products we take in daily are extremely harmful. A Big Mac and fries have enough sodium to cause serious blood pressure problems and other health problems when eaten semi-regularly. There are literally tens of THOUSANDS of food products that have different types and intensities of harm associated with their ingestion. We do no outlaw them. The same is true of pharmaceuticals. Most prescription drugs have side effects that can be much more deleterious than pot ever could. Do we ban their use?

It appears as though you may be judging pot by its utility and euphoric effect. Yes, habitual pot use can lead to amotivational syndrome, certain cancers, and hormonal fluctuations, among other things, however, people are entitled to put whatever they please into their bodies. We don't arrest the morbidly obese person for overeating or for possessing pound cake! Why not? Their abuse of food has led to them using way more than their share of the healthcare funds, forced friends and relatives to take care of them, and they contribute to the visual pollution of the landscape. Who wants to look at an enormous man or woman in a tiny bathing suit lumbering down the beach? This is absurd. We would NEVER think of doing such a thing to someone who was fat. It would be cruel. It is equally cruel to arrest someone for merely having or smoking a plant (or engaging in commerce with said plant as the product). This is downright obscene.

The only way something can have "free reign" on our society is if it is embraced by that society. A society, by definition, is defined by its people and if those people object, then no plant will work its evil on that society. This leads me to another point: A plant, drug, or even a weapon has no inherent "evil" within it. There is no malice and no desire and no intellect. That comes from people. To view getting stoned as somehow undesireable and indicative of weakness is bigoted.

I personally dislike the high of pot. Can't enjoy it. Although there was an incident with Brian Eno's music and a bunch of chicken wings that was one of the better times I have had by myself in a long time. That aside, I have no need or want of marijuana.

If you investigated your claim a bit, you would have found out that you were very wrong. Making something LEGAL does NOT necessarily increase its use. Quite the opposite, in fact. You mentioned Amsterdam. Well, the Netherlands is extremely tolerant of marijuana and is a proponent of harm reduction and treating drug use and abuse as a medical/sociobehavioral issue, not a criminal one. As a result, the per capita rate of marijuana use is MUCH lower than that of the US or Canada. Gee, and it is illegal here. What does that tell you?

Another problem I have with marijuana "parents" is the fallacy that it is a so-called "gateway drug." 99% of serial killers had breakfast (cereal?) the day they murdered each of their victims. Most heroin users started with marijuana. Did the breakfast (cereal) cause the serial killer to kill? Did the marijuana cause the smoker to shoot up? Of course not. Push it farther. Did the breakfast create a mindset that was ideal for the progression to repetitive murder? Did the marijuana create a permissiveness that led the person down the road to smack? Please. The logic is faulty. You must establish causality before you go running willy nilly and start telling kids that the cops are their friends and that marijuana leads to other drugs. Oh yeah, and if you buy pot, you're supporting terrorism, too. It is at least unpatriotic, right?

Our first American flag was made of HEMP. Smoke pot for our boys overseas "exporting freedom." Yeah, okay.
Ciao!
Lazarus Afoot

 

[CrazyHarij]

Yeeeeaaah leeegaliiiizeee it , maaaaaaaaan! Then moooore people would speak like this, duuuuuude! :farmer:

 

[nw909]

Damnit, did I go back in time again to 2003?

 

[The Mullinator]

Im too tired to get into the actual debate right now so I will just nitpick at this little Off-topic thing.

another illiterate one, guys! there are 33 pages, not 13...jesus.

There are actually 13 pages if you set the number of posts displayed per page to their highest. For me I see this thread as having 13 pages, but if you use the default number of posts per page you will see 33 pages.

EDIT: Whoa I didn't notice how old this thread actually was. lol.

 

[Moto]

No. Drugs are bad M'kay? I hope you know how many carcenogens and poisons are in that crap. I hope you know what it can do to your brain.

 

[CptStern]

Lets leagalize ecstasy then. Why stop at weed. We want our economy to be good huh? Then lets shoot for cocain aswell.
Likewise, if everyone and their momma can go to the dollar store and get shit faced off weed, then violent crimes caused by shitfaced people on weed would rise, sexual crimes perpitrated by shitfaced people on weed would rise, automotive homocide by shitfaced people on weed would rise, the number of shitfaced underaged kids would rise, leading to a lifetime of being shitfaced and adding to the various crimes shitfaced people commit.

Its not only illegal because its terribly bad for you. Other things which are also terribly bad are perfectly legal. One of the main reasons its illegal is not because what harm it does to you, but the harm it influences you to do to others. Through wreckless behavior, influencing your decisions at imperative moments, and so on.

I mean really, this world is screwed up enough. Adding to the number of legal intoxicants, especially one as popular and deadly as weed, will only **** the world up more.

are you for real?

 

[Warbie]

lol - the big weed debate continues! \o/

I still believe that weed is bad. Fine in moderation, as are most drugs. But most smokers (atleast the ones I know) don't smoke in moderation.

Cannabis has become 'cool'. Dealers are selling in school yards (I see kids who can't be older than 12 smoking weed all the time. I started at 13, as did every member of my class). Kids don't 'say no' because the drug is percieved as harmless these days :/ (which is complete rubbish, only believed by the uninformed and/or inexperienced) It's especially damaging for the young who are approaching/in puberty. This is the time that shapes the men/women they're going to become. Doing drugs at this time is very, very bad.

Regular users build up a massive tolerance in no time. This is where the problem lies imo. You can smoke weed all day long and still function - go to school/work or whatever. As a result you can smoke every day for years, oblivious to the damage you're doing to your brain/body. (unlike with booze/pills etc - heavy use with these and it won't take long before your either kill yourself, quit or become a bum)

I smoked heavily for well over a decade, and know many ppl who've developed problems, some very serious, including myself. Weed is definately not good for you. But if you are an adult, and smoke cannabis sensibly, (if that is possible ) then I guess the risks are pretty minimal.

Whether it should be legal or not is a very different discussion tho. One that i'm not decided upon.

 

[Warbie]

have you ever been to amsterdam? some of the nicest folk in the world live there. and pretty much all of them are high on something or other.

I have to disagree with this (not about them being nice that is ). I've been to Holland many times and know many Dutch smokers. Ppl don't smoke weed heavily over there, certainly not as heavy as the users I know in the UK do. For a start most dutch smokers choose mild hash, and even then smoke it slowly, and not too often.

The problem is with ppls attitued to drugs. In the UK, and i'm sure in the states, there's this 'more is better/cooler' way of thinking. This is the problem. Oh, and the 'cannabis is harmless' opinion too. (next time I meet a student who tells me that weed is harmless I'm going to scream! They seriously havn't a clue what they're talking about - how can they? After smoking for a few years and reading a few 'informed' articles on the interent :/)

(The dutch are far more sensible than most give credit. On the outside they come across as screaming loonies who love nothing more than having weird sex and injecting drugs - bit it's not true, they're more like Geography teachers )

 

[BirdMan]

Warbie 4 prez :thumbs:

and i'm not sarcastic

I love your way of thinking

 

[Warbie]

hehe President Warbie, I like it

(then I can force ppl to pass a simple exam on party polices before being allowed to vote! and a financial assessment to see if they can afford to raise the kids they seem to spawn on a regular basis - just to let them play in the traffic :/

and maybe make everyone to wear silly hats on tuesdays - just cause I can \o/)

 

[Maskirovka]

i can't believe someone resurrected this thread from december....

and lazarus, myself and others pretty much made all those arguments...it didn't work...pointing out logic flaws doesn't get the job done :\

 

[CrazyHarij]

i can't believe someone resurrected this thread from december....

and lazarus, myself and others pretty much made all those arguments...it didn't work...pointing out logic flaws doesn't get the job done :\

What the hell is up with resurrecting all these threads? There should be some autolock or something if the thread hasn't been touched for 2 months or something.

 

[mchammer75040]

What the hell is up with resurrecting all these threads? There should be some autolock or something if the thread hasn't been touched for 2 months or something.

(note: not meant to be a flame towards you...)
Why? So someone can make a identical thread in another 2 months and everyone says the samething again? Why does everyone say that I dont see whats so bad about ressurrecting old threads? :cheese:

 

[Sui]

yup, theres nothing rong with onld threads. heheh, i wasnt even in the forum when this thread was made and i allready have 1,050 posts

man... i should get out more :|

 

[Dalamari]

The problem that the US has with weed is simple.

They first thought it was a harmful drug (don't get me wrong, if messed with, it can be bad) and then they found out it just changes your perception for awhile (high) and since they had already placed 1,000,000 warnings about it, they didn't want to be wrong so they stuck with their story and even made some stuff up to falsly scare the public into not using it.

 

[Cybernoid]

I have first hand experience of the ill effects of alcohol (father shot himself in the head, stepfather was violent etc.), but no one seems to listen to me. They all just tell me how fun it is to get drunk and crawl in a pool of your own vomit. Running over someone with a car is apparently loads of fun, too. Well, I guess destroying your internal organs and brains with a neurotoxin is one way to go.

I don't approve weed, but it seems to be much less dangerous than alcohol, so I can't see why it's illegal.

 

[PvtRyan]

(The dutch are far more sensible than most give credit. On the outside they come across as screaming loonies who love nothing more than having weird sex and injecting drugs - bit it's not true, they're more like Geography teachers )

I take this as a compliment... I think.. :|

But legalizing (it's actually not legal, but under certain amounts it's allowed) it doesn't bring the doom scenario's like some here say it does.

Here is the truth. The bottom line.

If you make weed more available to the public, then you spread its use. If you spread its use, then the negative aspects spread with it. Legalizing weed doesnt abolis hthe negative aspects of weed, it gives them free reign on our society. Weed is harmful lto our society in its controlled state, making it uncontrolled will only increase how harmfull it is. Anyone can see this.

Completely false. Spread its use? The amount of people using weed here is far lower than for example in the UK. Less than 7% of the youth smoke pot, versus 13% of the British youth. Only a fairly small percentage of the people tried it, so obviously making it 'legal' doesn't mean the society turns into potheads.
It's funny how you emphasize the negative sides of weed, while tobacco and alcohol are freely available and they are just as, if not more, harmful. Why are those not illegal if drugs have such a devastating impact on society?

it gives them free reign on our society.

No it gives control, it's not like you can buy weed everywhere, there are very strict rules, and pretty much only coffee shops are allowed to sell it.
If it's illegal the drugs will go underground, however the amount of drugs used won't decrease and with the added effect that you've just lost all control over it as a government. We have very little drug related crimes, at least a lot less than in countries where weed is highly forbidden. But outlawing it doesn't help in any way, the Americans know all too well that outlawing alcohol in the early 20th century only caused more crime. And what did you solve? It's still being used just as heavily. You can just tolerate it under certain amounts, the usage of it won't increase, but you gain control over the distribution and quality of the weed.

You won't help drug addicts of harddrugs by punishing them with 20 years of jailtime. We're experimenting here with free distribution of heroin/cocaine to hopeless drugaddicts. It discards the need for them to steal to get the money for their daily dose, thus reducing crime. They slowly decrease the dosage and slowly rehabilitating them.

You can be very strict with drugs, and in the end realize you haven't solved a thing, but even made things worse. And it's absolutely retarded to outlaw weed while drugs like tobacco and alcohol have a much much greater influence on society (how many alcohol related violence is there vs weed related?) and are just as harmful. It's just stupid.

 

[kidrock450]

whoever says "smoking weed should be legal" smokes it themselves and just wants it legal and dont get arrested.

 

[Cybernoid]

I don't use drugs of any kind and I still don't see anything wrong with legalizing weed. If alcohol is legal, drugs should be legal as well. It's fairly logical.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Don't drag up threads older than Munro.