We're Sorry

[Ardoramor]

yes, i know

But still, no matter how hard I try I can't hate anyone :S I dont know how some people do it, especially w/o any good reasons!

 

[Ardoramor]

Yea, and then, without America, the tide turned, and Germany was bled dry up to 15 million reported missing, wounded or killed in action.



No, not even practically. He suggested it, to take some struggle off of some future battles that might allow his armor to break through -- but with Hitler's idiotic lack of initiative, and his commanders bleak and often blinding fanaticsm, the Germans failed to gain any ground as of 1943. The Soviets drove the Germans back to the Berlin, and suffocated them.

The attack in through Poland, Belorussa, is the attack that bled the Germans dry.



You too, eh? Well, its not just us -- its a whole historical foundation. Glad to know your with us.

I completely agree! When US entered the war in europe (d-day 1944), Russia was closing in on Berlin! Guess where all the scientists went who fled from Russians? They all went to the US. Well, those how didn't make it died somewhere is Siberia (im sort of sorry but then again, they would've done the same to me if Nazis had a chance). So not only US got money out of WWII but they also got resources that helped them out in Cold War... they drained Europe of its scientific community by "liberating" it.

 

[schoppi]

I completely agree! When US entered the war in europe (d-day 1944), Russia was closing in on Berlin! Guess where all the scientists went who fled from Russians? They all went to the US. Well, those how didn't make it died somewhere is Siberia (im sort of sorry but then again, they would've done the same to me if Nazis had a chance). So not only US got money out of WWII but they also got resources that helped them out in Cold War... they drained Europe of its scientific community by "liberating" it.

Full Ack
After ´Stalingrad´ it was nearly obvious that Russia could defeat Nazi-Germany on their own. I am sure that the allies were afraid to see whole europe liberated and occupied by the soviets. IMO the allies´ (GB, US, Canada, Australia...(France)) main reason for the invasion in europe was the fear of a gigantic soviet empire, of course the chance to liberate france, benelux (and germany) was another reason but mainly to stop the russians...
In April 1945 the german army fled over the ´elbe´ to get to the allies...some of them even wanted to fight with the allies against russia - what a crazy idea.

BTW: I am very thankful that the allies invasion did take place cause otherwise I would be born in a country under control of the soviet union.

Yea, and then, without America, the tide turned, and Germany was bled dry up to 15 million reported missing, wounded or killed in action.

German death toll: 3,8 million soldiers and 1,65 million civilians
Russian death toll: 25 million soldiers and civilians!!!!!!!!

 

[K e r b e r o s]

First: Excuse me? I've never seen any reliable estimate of total German military casualties (killed and wounded) for the ENTIRE war that were over 10 million.

Your pardoned, you may move on. However, the estimate I'am referring to, is the one Hitler received from both civilian combatants opposed to the Soviets, Hitler Youth, Ostroops, Foreign Volunteers, the SS, and the entire Heer.

15 million, was the estimate as of 1943, because the Germans were recruiting into the ranks of "Volksgrenadier".

It is reported 15 million were ready for service before Byelorussia. Then, in the middle of the campaign, the estimate broke significantly. So by January 29th, 1945 -- the number was estimated as a casualtie, because none of it came to fight, despite it being placed as legitimate.

EDIt: Wait... I just noticed you said without America... so either you're neing sarcastic or you're relying on some kind of bizarre alternate history.

Great hardballing, but no.

He "suggested it" (at least 7 times that I know of, at times "suggesting" that the USSR was going to be crippled or defeated without a second front being opened), because without that second front he was dog meat. He was barely managing to hold off the Germans and he was taking millions of casualties doing it. Not a situation that lends itself to being maintained for very long.

Actually, your still very wrong. The Soviets after Byelorussia had 5 million troops bottlenecking through Warsaw (a city which the Soviets watched become sheer rubbel, during the Warsaw Uprising -- due to a certain political motive). 5 million more, then the Germans proposed 1 .5 million, that were spread throughout the country serving various services, branches, and locations.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

If those failed, we would've invaded Japan -- and the civilian cost would've been much greater -- aswell as the cost in Soldiers.

Where is your sorry for exploiting Europe during WWI and WWII by cashing in on selling weaponds to both side?

Is it someone elses sorry, or your own? How can I, be related to selling of equipment 60 years ago, just by the merit I'am included as being my Nations countrymen?

I'am not responsible for those -- so get your apology from someone that was.

they are like that annoying neighbor that always reminds you of that little thing he did once but when he needs something then you have to do it no matter what.

Kind of like ...

where is your sorry for Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Where is your sorry for reasing the dust in middle east and causing the suicide attacks to get to Europe? Where is your sorry for exploiting Europe during WWI and WWII by cashing in on selling weaponds to both side? Where is your sorry for killing innocent Iraquis just to get Sadam? Where is your sorry for supporting Afgan militia with weapons they later used against peaceful people? No sorries will make up for crap you did... and maybe no thank you's will make up for good you did too... so what is your point exactly

... YOU?

 

[Ardoramor]

I'am not responsible for those -- so get your apology from someone that was.

Why are you taking it personally? I'm talking to the author of the article. I'm pretty sure that there are some Americans that wouldn't agree with his sarcasm.

...you?

My point is that threads like these are useless in proving anything... there is to much involved and, sadly enough, we can't do anything about it.

 

[schoppi]

http://www.fathersforlife.org/hist/wwiicas.htm
numbers may vary...but at least u can see the dimension of casualties.

If those failed, we would've invaded Japan -- and the civilian cost would've been much greater -- aswell as the cost in Soldiers.

Maybe a nuke over the sea of japan would reach the goal too...maybe one bomb would be enough...

 

[K e r b e r o s]

No sorries will make up for crap you did... and maybe no thank you's will make up for good you did too... so what is your point exactly? Do we have to start to mention our sarcastic sorries so supporting your country when it was no more powerful then a little baby is? This is the BS that pisses me off about the US of A... they are like that annoying neighbor that always reminds you of that little thing he did once but when he needs something then you have to do it no matter what.

Why are you taking it personally?

I dunno, being called an annoying neighbor simply because I'am a US citizen is enough to remind me of the political stir before the elections.

Next time, dont generalize. Its not a pleasant thing to go through ...

My point is that threads like these are useless in proving anything...

Are they? So you're just here for the Christmas cookies eh? Good. So am I.

http://www.fathersforlife.org/hist/wwiicas.htm
numbers may vary...but at least u can see the dimension of casualties.

But you can also read what I've stated.

Maybe a nuke over the sea of japan would reach the goal too...maybe one bomb would be enough...

One, "nuke" did'nt do it. Japan did'nt surrender the first time. The second did it. If the second one did'nt go, then we would've invaded. We were already off of Tokyo bay ...

 

[schoppi]

But you can also read what I've stated.

I just wanted to give a controllable database...

One, "nuke" did'nt do it. Japan did'nt surrender the first time. The second did it. If the second one did'nt go, then we would've invaded. We were already off of Tokyo bay ...

OK, I didn´t know that Japan didn´t surrender after the first bomb. So the way the US did was hard but the better way. I thought that the Japanese would surrender if they knew that the US got the bomb...

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

People always like to knock the big man in town

 

[CptStern]

japan tried to surrender weeks before the bombs were dropped ...Truman's diaries prove this

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Oh where they? Have a link - suggest a good book read, will you?

 

[CptStern]

sigh ...look, I gave you all the information you need : TRUMAN DIARIES

btw I'm reporting your spam cuz it's just getting intolerable

 

[K e r b e r o s]

OK, I didn´t know that Japan didn´t surrender after the first bomb. So the way the US did was hard but the better way. I thought that the Japanese would surrender if they knew that the US got the bomb...

YOU. READ.

http://www.valourandhorror.com/BOOKS/oxford.htm

78.00 Dollars. 1,500 pages. 300 pictures. Yes. Do it, now. Very small text, and its a big book ... big as in tall ... but also wide aswell.

 

[Bodacious]

btw I'm reporting your spam cuz it's just getting intolerable

What do you consider spam?

 

[el Chi]

the millions were mostly killed by the evil tyrants and militia themselves, they wouldnt have dies if those terrorists wasnt doing what they were doing in the first place

Terrorists and dictatorships are two different things.
Whilst we're at it: Dissidents and terrorists are two different things.
Ahem. Carry on.

 

[CptStern]

What do you consider spam?

this has been going on for some months now

 

[seinfeldrules]

The bombing of Japan accomplished 2 goals.

1. Saved MILLIONS of lives. At least 1 million American troops would have perished. Only 400,000 had died to this point. Almost the entire Japanese population would have been wiped out. There were only upwards of 5000 captured Japanese troops at this point in the war.

2. Sent a message to the Soviets.

btw I'm reporting your spam cuz it's just getting intolerable

If people only reported you every time you insulted somebody. Maybe we should start now eh?

 

[el Chi]

Do you really think the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki sent a message to the Soviets? What was that message?
"We've got these bombs, we're prepared to use them. Oh, do too? Wooo-weee. Well, that puts us all in a bit of a pickle, doesn't it..."

 

[CptStern]

If people only reported you every time you insulted somebody. Maybe we should start now eh?

go ahead

...btw the jury is still out of the 1 mil allied soldiers saved ..there's some evidence that says the number is closer to 200,000 ..but you'd know all this if you had read the truman diaries ..man if you cant even take the word of your president I dont know who you'll believe

btw, japan contacted the soviets first with their terms of surrender, who then passed it off to churchill who then passed it off to Truman ..the reason why the second bomb was dropped was because japan hadnt yet agreed to an unconditional surrender ..they wanted to keep their emperor

 

[K e r b e r o s]

..man if you cant even take the word of your president I dont know who you'll believe

Wait a moment -- you actually want me to believe my own President?

..the reason why the second bomb was dropped was because japan hadnt yet agreed to an unconditional surrender ..they wanted to keep their emperor

Okay, that was worth the read. You've got me searching ...

 

[CptStern]

T-r-u-m-a-n

D-i-a-r-i-e-s

 

[seinfeldrules]

...btw the jury is still out of the 1 mil allied soldiers saved ..there's some evidence that says the number is closer to 200,000 ..but you'd know all this if you had read the truman diaries ..man if you cant even take the word of your president I dont know who you'll believe

His military advisors told him 1 million. 100 million Japanese going all out on 2 million allied troops. Look at Okinawa 600 miles from Japan and they still inflicted 20,000 US casualties. Furthermore, we arent taking into account JAPANESE deaths from an invasion. The number would have been staggering.

the reason why the second bomb was dropped was because japan hadnt yet agreed to an unconditional surrender

Those were the terms stern.

 

[Eg.]

also we were pretty ticked off at the japanese at the time, the baton death march, pearl harbor, and then there was Ichi in manchuria. he stockpiled enough anthrax and plague to kill off the world. we just got our weapons program into action quicker