What CSS lacks

[Jesus Lincoln]

I love CSS, i play it every day, but i have one problem, they are using the source engine, i wish it was worth more than ragdolls. It has amazing physics and stuff, but they never affect gameplay. I wish that maps had things that could help your game due to physics. For instance, in offfice, there are 3 cabnits, that with grenades and mabye some kreig rounds, you can block a door, this doesnt help, but it can sometimes stop people for a few seconds. This is the closest example to useful physics. I know that ragdoll physics and shadows make the game look cooler, and it is a little more fun to play, but come on, where are the barracade-able tables and boxes.


Thats another thing, why cant we push tables and objects, they had this in beta and i didnt like it, i thought they would remove it, and then i saw that dutch (?) video that shows someone barricading a door in Italy with tables. I dont see why larger objects have to push you away, my first theory was to stop people from building ladders and skywalking, but as we all know skywalking is virtually impossible. I have heard that this could be changed via console commands or something if not, modded in like AMX.

I dont want this to be a nitpicking thread, its just a gameplay feature that they could have easily had. Anyone agree that this should be implemented?

 

[Vidrio]

I think they should have either gone full heartedly using physics, or not at all....

personally I can live without physics, ie the barrels, tables, useless stuff on the floor etc

Also another thing is that de_dust and the likes where not designed for them, they could have designed them better I spose but I think it would just be best if they started from scratch.

The being pushed away from physical objects is my only beef with this game, its a bit of a let down, but then its only cs source. It wont be like this in hl2.

Roll on cs2... hopefully we can have real physics then

 

[Wraith]

i just love running by that bike in italy and getting thrown 15 feet away like theres some invisible gorilla who thinks you are going to steal his bike

/sarcasm

 

[captshiznit]

lmao, something i still dont like is ladder climbing, you run up a ladder? WTF?

there is no advantage to climbing like that anyway for instance you cannot shoot because its so inaccurate. so why not just have correct ladder climbing animations...


and all points youve also stated i agree with, why the heck to objects throw you back like 20 meters?

 

[MisterFloppy]

CSS also lacks realistic reloading animations. You know what you do when you reload a full-auto or semi-auto gun in which the magazine has not been emptied? You take out the partially depleted magazine and put a new one in, thats all. You dont pull back on the charging handle, or release the slide. It is ready to fire.

You know what you do when you reload most full-auto or semi-auto rifles in which the magazine HAS been emptied? You replace the magazine and hit the bolt catch, you dont freaking pull back on the charging handle, you just hit the bolt catch. Except in some rifles that dont have a bolt catch, like the AK-47.

And the M4 animation has you pull back ON THE FREAKING FORWARD ASSIST! The forward assist has nothing to do with loading a round into the chamber except when you have a certain kind of jam!

Thats my rant for the day, you think they would have it right by now.

OH AND ALL THE GUNS EXCEPT THE MP5 AND A FEW OTHERS ARE BACKWARDS! I DONT CARE ABOUT THE FREAKING SHELL CASINGS FLYING ACROSS THE SCREEN.

Also, why is it that two different guns that use the same caliber ammunition deal different amounts of damage?

 

[Danger]

You can push cabinets and stuff, its all up to the admin to enable these parameters(uselsssspelling).
The reason they don't is because their server can't handle the amount of bandwidth it will take.

Its also up the the map makers to add this feature.
you wait, when The hl2 dev kit gets realeased me and you will look at CSS a whole different way, just enjoy the game in its current state, good things are on the way

 

[Vidrio]

Its also up the the map makers to add this feature.
you wait, when The hl2 dev kit gets realeased me and you will look at CSS a whole different way, just enjoy the game in its current state, good things are on the way

Totally agree.

The gun animations I dont care about and I'm sure the majority of the players dont either, for lack of knowledge or just cause they want to have fun ;p

I stay away from the physical objects or if there wood, I shoot them and take there place :x

 

[chriso20]

lmao i know of 4 things on a standard gun...

Magazine clip
Bolt thing
Safety
Trigger :naughty:

when i see the guns reload, i see as much as i need to, to know he's reloading.

If you wanted to make a virtual SAS film from it well, yeah its probably not accurate enough but christ, its a multiplayer online game!

 

[captshiznit]

yes agreed, with a semi automatic weapon like an m16, when you partially empty the clip you do NOT pull back the chargining handle because there would already be a bullet in the chamber. if you empty a clip then all you bullets would have been used and there then when you put the magazine in the chamber would be empty therefore you would have to pull back the charging handle to load a bullet ready to be fired and so forth....

use the feature/suggestion thingy and spam them with these ideas.... so it gets changed. i mean most of these things a plain tacky on an engine like source and changing them wont affect cs gameplay whatso ever it would just be correct and much nicer .

Edit: yeh theres no doubting patches just yet aswell, just wait and see, there are plenty of patches to come.

hopefully sort out hossies aswell they are 7ft lanky bastards who look like they have been starved.

 

[Necro]

CSS also lacks realistic reloading animations. You know what you do when you reload a full-auto or semi-auto gun in which the magazine has not been emptied? You take out the partially depleted magazine and put a new one in, thats all. You dont pull back on the charging handle, or release the slide. It is ready to fire.

You know what you do when you reload most full-auto or semi-auto rifles in which the magazine HAS been emptied? You replace the magazine and hit the bolt catch, you dont freaking pull back on the charging handle, you just hit the bolt catch. Except in some rifles that dont have a bolt catch, like the AK-47.

And the M4 animation has you pull back ON THE FREAKING FORWARD ASSIST! The forward assist has nothing to do with loading a round into the chamber except when you have a certain kind of jam!

Thats my rant for the day, you think they would have it right by now.

OH AND ALL THE GUNS EXCEPT THE MP5 AND A FEW OTHERS ARE BACKWARDS! I DONT CARE ABOUT THE FREAKING SHELL CASINGS FLYING ACROSS THE SCREEN.

Also, why is it that two different guns that use the same caliber ammunition deal different amounts of damage?

heh yea, the ejector port is on the wrong side - who in they're right mind fires a gun so that the shells fly into your face

 

[MisterFloppy]

if you empty a clip then all you bullets would have been used and there then when you put the magazine in the chamber would be empty therefore you would have to pull back the charging handle to load a bullet ready to be fired and so forth....

No, almost all full-auto/semi-auto long guns and all semi-auto handguns have a bolt or slide stop. When the magazine is empty, the stop is pushed up by the follower in the magazine, which locks the bolt/slide back. This way, when you reload, you just hit the bolt/slide stop, usually located on the left side of the gun, the bolt carrier or slide moves forward, chambering a round, and you are ready to go.

 

[AgentSmith]

I love CSS, i play it every day, but i have one problem, they are using the source engine, i wish it was worth more than ragdolls. It has amazing physics and stuff, but they never affect gameplay. I wish that maps had things that could help your game due to physics. For instance, in offfice, there are 3 cabnits, that with grenades and mabye some kreig rounds, you can block a door, this doesnt help, but it can sometimes stop people for a few seconds. This is the closest example to useful physics. I know that ragdoll physics and shadows make the game look cooler, and it is a little more fun to play, but come on, where are the barracade-able tables and boxes.

Thats another thing, why cant we push tables and objects, they had this in beta and i didnt like it, i thought they would remove it, and then i saw that dutch (?) video that shows someone barricading a door in Italy with tables. I dont see why larger objects have to push you away, my first theory was to stop people from building ladders and skywalking, but as we all know skywalking is virtually impossible. I have heard that this could be changed via console commands or something if not, modded in like AMX.

I dont want this to be a nitpicking thread, its just a gameplay feature that they could have easily had. Anyone agree that this should be implemented?

The problem with CS:S is that it is not a Source game it is Quake 2 DM with Source graphics. People have CS 1.6 and CZ if they want that old style gameplay - the point of a new engine is to get a new game, to advance the gameplay and introdcue new things - CS:S is just a lame rehash of what everyone has allready done thousands of times.

As much as I think your idea is a good one I don't think you can take a 5 year old game and just plunk in this new feature or that one WITHOUT doing the same across the board. Think of a old PC, you love it and it has server you well for years but it is showing its age. You get a new GFX card and go to plop it in but even if it will fit it won't work well because the CPU, the RAM, the Chipset are all outdated as well. That is kinda where we are with CS, it was the greatest game of its time and remains popular but the fact is that it is old, old style gameplay and old limited engine. You just cannot plug in physics without revamping everything about the gameplay as well.

You just cannot seperate an engine from the gamplay - they are itegral to each other. Source needs its own version of CS, not some sloppy port. That is my beef with CS:S and why I do not think it will ever get 'better' because it seems pretty obvious it is just getting a Source 'plug in' instead of a real rebuild. The reason the gameplay doesn't use physics (or about anything else Source promises) is because the gameplay was developed to wrok within the confines of a 5 year old engine.

 

[krameriffic]

... you know most online games I've played don't have these gun enthusiasts complaining about reload animations and model accuracy. Most online games I've played DO have game enthusiasts who complain about people who hop and hit headshots, have no aim and hit headshots, or prone jump and hit headshots. Starting to see a trend?

 

[Baal]

I hope no one posted this already:

I think the reason they didn't make tables and such being able to block doors is because it might be hard to make sure that the whole server is in-sync with that.

If say you block the door with a table, maybe the other players in the server didn't recieve that info and just walk right through the table.

I'm hypothesizing this because I know in the beta, the ragdolls did not always land in the same place for everyone. I'd be playing with friends and shooting a players head (on the ground, dead), and they would say "uhh.....no....his body is to the left of that..." and the other would say "uhhh......no....his body is to the right..."

Who knows the real answer, I think anything that anyone complains about in CS: Source right now is about TIME, Valve did not have enough time to put everything in the game they wanted to.

 

[AgentSmith]

I think you are correct - Source has some serious netcode issues (esp since it supports 56k still) and the physics dumbing down is definitely a nod to that. All the more support to what I said about CS:S needing to be a NEW game and not just a lame port of a Quake 2 MOD.

As for time - give me a break, they only sold us half a game because they didn't have time? OK, fine - give me half my money back then.

 

[Vidrio]

I think you are correct - Source has some serious netcode issues (esp since it supports 56k still) and the physics dumbing down is definitely a nod to that. All the more support to what I said about CS:S needing to be a NEW game and not just a lame port of a Quake 2 MOD.

As for time - give me a break, they only sold us half a game because they didn't have time? OK, fine - give me half my money back then.

you didnt buy cs source. Seriously, you bought HL2. cs source is a freeeeeeeeeeee beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee oki?

You may have paid, but it wasnt for cs source.

 

[Eon Blue]

If say you block the door with a table, maybe the other players in the server didn't recieve that info and just walk right through the table.

Quoted for excellent insight.

 

[AgentSmith]

you didnt buy cs source. Seriously, you bought HL2. cs source is a freeeeeeeeeeee beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee oki?

You may have paid, but it wasnt for cs source.

CS:S is HL2 multiplayer - we payed for it the same as we payed for the single player.

Quoted for excellent insight.

Only partly, everything that moves now has to be tracked - the reason they don't let you interact with things on anything but a superficial level is that if you could move things as part of gameplay (instead of just as a result) then more things would be moved and the netcode simply cannot handle it.

No matter how you slice it it is a major weakness of this engine - we where promised these great HL2 physics and, seemingly, just like FarCry and Doom 3 the engine doesn't translate to MP in a complete way.

 

[Baal]

you didnt buy cs source. Seriously, you bought HL2. cs source is a freeeeeeeeeeee beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee oki?

You may have paid, but it wasnt for cs source.

Very good point, but then it comes back to the fact that CS:Source IS the HL2's multiplayer. So CS:Source is as much part of HL2 as the singleplayer aspect.

Don't forget about that.

 

[Baal]

CS:S is HL2 multiplayer - we payed for it the same as we payed for the single player.

Beat me to it

 

[dys4iK]

Yet as has been mentioned, CS:S is just a port. With a port you don't change all that much. We have to wait for things like TF2 and CS2 to get the next generation of multiplayer games from Vavle & friends. Or maybe they'll get adventurous in later patches, but I doubt it.

That said, I'm quite enjoying CS:S. The little bugs are annoying, sure, but I've _never_ played a game online that didn't have all sorts of annoying little bugs. Sure, it doesn't matter as much when you have a rocket launcher, but you'll find some around.

The only bit that annoys me regularily, is shooting someone in the face and having them kill me shortly after.

 

[scully]

to be honest i dont think people really care about how realistic the loading of a gun is, i mean come on.. its not exactly a simulation game like rouge spear! cs and cs:s are more "fun" to play, its just a massive "killing session" and fun, no one takes it seriously do they?

i think its a bit too easy to get head shots too, that just annoys me when you just drop dead! as far as the guns go, i think they look and sound great!

its a game! its not like most of us have actually fired an m4 or thrown grenades at anyone!! so who cares?

(im off now to black my face and go sneak around the neighborhood with an air rifel and some paint grenades)

 

[AgentSmith]

Yet as has been mentioned, CS:S is just a port. With a port you don't change all that much. We have to wait for things like TF2 and CS2 to get the next generation of multiplayer games from Vavle & friends. Or maybe they'll get adventurous in later patches, but I doubt it.

Again - that is the VERY source of the problem. Valve simply did not deliver a Source MP and that is answer to the original post's statement, "What CSS lacks". Answer - a true new game made for the engine it runs on.

 

[Some_God]

i just love running by that bike in italy and getting thrown 15 feet away like theres some invisible gorilla who thinks you are going to steal his bike

/sarcasm

Haha that should be quoted...

 

[perrkele]

CS:S was never supposed to be a new game, AgentSmith. It was always "only" a direct port of CS 1.6. Did this come as a suprise to you, or why on earth are you so pissed off? I mean, CS:S turned out to be what it was meant to be - a mere port.

If you were expecting "a true new game made for the engine it runs on", you probably confused CS:S with TF2.

 

[dys4iK]

He's got a point. There's no 'new' MP based on the engine available _right now_. But considering HL2 isn't even out yet, we'll have to wait and see wether or not we get TF2 with it or something else.

Of course, the official statements seem to imply CS:S is it, for now.. But you know how valve likes releasing stuff. Even if it IS five years late.

 

[MisterFloppy]

... you know most online games I've played don't have these gun enthusiasts complaining about reload animations and model accuracy. Most online games I've played DO have game enthusiasts who complain about people who hop and hit headshots, have no aim and hit headshots, or prone jump and hit headshots. Starting to see a trend?

I am a gun NUT and a game enthusiast.

 

[AgentSmith]

Games allways alter the reload animation and the shell ejection in favor of what they think 'looks' better. FOr instance, if the shells ejected on the correct side it would make for a more bland gun model, so they flip it to give the model a more interesting look while in use.

 

[Dem0nEgg]

I hope no one posted this already:

I think the reason they didn't make tables and such being able to block doors is because it might be hard to make sure that the whole server is in-sync with that.

If say you block the door with a table, maybe the other players in the server didn't recieve that info and just walk right through the table.

I'm hypothesizing this because I know in the beta, the ragdolls did not always land in the same place for everyone. I'd be playing with friends and shooting a players head (on the ground, dead), and they would say "uhh.....no....his body is to the left of that..." and the other would say "uhhh......no....his body is to the right..."

Who knows the real answer, I think anything that anyone complains about in CS: Source right now is about TIME, Valve did not have enough time to put everything in the game they wanted to.

Wrong: Table = Server side physics object, ragdolls = client side physics objects.

Client side physics objects don't hinder your movement, Server side objects do - so the situation you mentioned of somebody walking through a table that appears to be there only for you, isn't going to happen. They would however, walk through small objects like cans, milk cartons, and rolling oranges... but I doubt these hinder movement much in real life to your standard Counter-Terrorist anyway eh?