What plot holes?

[Garric]

Lately everyone has been talking about how the HL2 story has dozens of plot holes. I can't think of any. Can you?

 

[Narcolepsy]

For most people, plot hole = not explicitly stated. Half-Life 2's story just requires a bit of intuition.

For example, one "plot hole" is, "Why are the Vourtigants suddenly on the side of the humans now?" Anyone who really analyzes the game will know the answer.

Another "plot hole" is, "Who is the G-Man?" The answer to this plot hole is, "It's not the last game in the series!"

And so on and so forth.

 

[Garric]

Those are not plot holes.

 

[Psychanalysis05%]

K, the whole Vortigaunts thing is REAL damned simple.
Vortigaunts - In HL1 they were known as 'alien slaves ' ie they were held in slavery by the denizens of Xen - the Nihilanith (sp? I'm tired and sick)
Gordon defeated the big nasty boss man who was holding the slaves in slavery. So they were liberated by humanity.

Wouldn't you fight alongside the people who set you free?

 

[MysticalMrBob]

Plot hole are inconsistencies in the story which aren't explained/can't be explained without contradicting each other. Barney surviving is a plot hole. But a minor one you can't really take seriously.

 

[koopa]

Like Narcolepsy said, 'plot holes' is mostly a lazy shorthand for 'I didn't like the way they told the story'. I'm sure it was a deliberate decision to let the player infer what happened rather than deliver 10 minute long cutscenes where Alyx explains it all. My opinion is that the presence of a writer on the Valve staff leads people to expect not just a 'story', but a story 'arc' - that there's a consistent universe, and that each HL edition follows naturally on, and that there really is a 'big meaning' when there isn't, it's just a computer game.

 

[A.I.]

The problem of the plot holes in HL2 is that there is no plot. You're thrown in by the G-man, Mossman betrays you, you f***up once, then you f*** it up for the second time saving Eli then Mossman betrays Breen and Breen gets owned and you are extracted by the G-man. Now you might be quite wondering what was the purpose of HL2 if those all people you saved in the end were killed in the explosion. I think we'll see them again.

 

[KagePrototype]

Plot hole are inconsistencies in the story which aren't explained/can't be explained without contradicting each other. Barney surviving is a plot hole. But a minor one you can't really take seriously.

I'm not sure how that is a plot hole, since he never actually dies. If you mean surviving Black Mesa, then go play Blue Shift.

 

[diluted]

Barney survived because Black Mesa was full of Barney clones - there had to be at least a few surviving Barneys. In fact, I bet in HL3, Barney (the one from HL2) encounters one of the other surviving clones, and they have a duel to the death. The surviving Barney then gets to mate with Alyx.

 

[corkscru74]

The problem of the plot holes in HL2 is that there is no plot. You're thrown in by the G-man, Mossman betrays you, you f***up once, then you f*** it up for the second time saving Eli then Mossman betrays Breen and Breen gets owned and you are extracted by the G-man. Now you might be quite wondering what was the purpose of HL2 if those all people you saved in the end were killed in the explosion. I think we'll see them again.

Ok, now read his post again.

I think what you've just described there would be a plot. Here's a quick lesson:

Pacman - You are, for no real reason, a yellow blob that eats smaller yellow blobs, ghost things eat you = no plot

HL2 - After your science experiment went wrong in black mesa you are now witness to what happened outside of the facility. You are now humanities last hope and must destroy the combine facility to free mankind. Meanwhile you are also somewhat under the control of a mysterious character known as the Gman.

Hello, can you say Plot with additional sub-plot?

Not forgetting Mossman's agenda of saving her own ass and Eli's agenda of looking after his daughter AND Alyx's agenda of looking after her father. I think that's called Multiple plot lines.

 

[corkscru74]

I'm not sure how that is a plot hole, since he never actually dies. If you mean surviving Black Mesa, then go play Blue Shift.

Well, I for one killed him at least 3 times! Some were unintentional....some

 

[koopa]

Pacman - You are, for no real reason, a yellow blob that eats smaller yellow blobs, ghost things eat you = no plot

Who said Pacman had a plot? There was never any pretense about it being a story driven RPG.

Not forgetting Mossman's agenda of saving her own ass and Eli's agenda of looking after his daughter AND Alyx's agenda of looking after her father. I think that's called Multiple plot lines.

If you're going to call that 'multiple plot lines' you'd better extend the same courtesy to UT2004, Max Payne 2, FarCry et al.

 

[moggy]

I'm not sure how that is a plot hole, since he never actually dies. If you mean surviving Black Mesa, then go play Blue Shift.

thats correct. barney survived black mesa, go play blue shift.

 

[Psychanalysis05%]

Slander. UT2004 has the most complex story in history! And I am also a small fat italian plumber who believes eating mushrooms gives him the power to grow huge. I also kick turtles.

 

[koopa]

And I am also a small fat italian plumber who believes eating mushrooms gives him the power to grow huge. I also kick turtles.

Now that is a proper story. But where did Bowser come from?!?

And leave the turtles, man.

 

[corkscru74]

Who said Pacman had a plot? There was never any pretense about it being a story driven RPG.


If you're going to call that 'multiple plot lines' you'd better extend the same courtesy to UT2004, Max Payne 2, FarCry et al.

I was just demonstrating what a game with no plot would actually be like. Pacman was the best I could come up with.

Only played FC out of those 3. Yep, it had quite a good plot, but told exclusively through cutscenes. HL2's forte is that it can tell a fantastic story (imo anyway) from a single characters perspective. The reason this is so impressive is because it's something very rarely done in cinema - films often need to show the story from many different angles to get the plot across.

Sorry but it just gets to me when ppl say HL2 has no plot - it's not even that it's there 'to be discovered', you experience it throughout.

 

[Ddan]

the good thing about it is you can go back and play the game again to discover things you didnt notice before hand. sure it's a linear game, but there is SO much detail just waiting to be discovered.

 

[smwScott]

Who said Pacman had a plot? There was never any pretense about it being a story driven RPG.

He wasn't saying Pacman had a plot, he was giving an example of a game with no plot. The previous guy says "HL2 has no plot" and then gives a brief outline of HL2's plot

If you're going to call that 'multiple plot lines' you'd better extend the same courtesy to UT2004, Max Payne 2, FarCry et al.

Max Payne 2 had many multiple plotlines, next to the MGS series one of the best video game plotlines out there. UT2004 however, I honestly didn't think they bothered to include a plot, what exactly is it? And Far Cry was just stupid, it tried to be campy but it was really just stupid.

 

[koopa]

Only played FC out of those 3. Yep, it had quite a good plot, but told exclusively through cutscenes. HL2's forte is that it can tell a fantastic story (imo anyway) from a single characters perspective.

Weird, I thought FC's plot was awful. I enjoyed the game, but I could have done without the Jean-Claude Van Damme style meanderings. HL2 beats it hands down for me.

Sorry but it just gets to me when ppl say HL2 has no plot - it's not even that it's there 'to be discovered', you experience it throughout.

Let's put it this way, I reckon it has a fairly strong plot for an FPS. People who say it has 'no plot' are maybe expecting too much (your point about first person narrative is a good one, and in some ways restricts what you can do).

It's not a patch on Deus Ex, but then I'm a rabid deus ex fanboy.

Max Payne 2 had many multiple plotlines, next to the MGS series one of the best video game plotlines out there.
UT2004 however, I honestly didn't think they bothered to include a plot, what exactly is it? And Far Cry was just stupid, it tried to be campy but it was really just stupid.

My point was that I didn't think HL2 had a 'deeper' plot than (say) Max Payne 2. And I wouldn't call 'xxx having a daughter' part of a multiple plotline. Of course, my comparison really backfires if you thought MP2 had a great plot. I guess I didn't get all that film noir thingy.

 

[SuperflyCol]

Max Payne 2 had many multiple plotlines, next to the MGS series one of the best video game plotlines out there. UT2004 however, I honestly didn't think they bothered to include a plot, what exactly is it? And Far Cry was just stupid, it tried to be campy but it was really just stupid.

Agree with you on MP2, but MGS? I've only played Sons of Liberty, but if that's anything like the others I can't agree it had a good plot. A collection of daft-ass nonsensical plot twists heaped on top of each do not make a good plot. I nearly fell asleep during the last half hour.

 

[Styloid]

HL2 doesn't have plot holes so much as questions it raises but doesn't answer. Saying 'plot holes' makes Valve sound like bad storytellers while saying 'unanswered questions' makes them sound like they are intentionally holding back some information. Which one you choose to use depends on what kind of underlying message you are trying to send in your statement.

 

[The Mullinator]

Every story has plot holes, even Lord of the Rings has them. Does Half-Life 2 have plot holes? Of course. Does it have many? Not compared to the stories of most games.

 

[jimmyjam]

half life 2 has one huge plothole
charles foster kane died alone, who could have heard his last words?@!??!@

 

[Some_God]

Fist time I played Hl2... I was a little disappointed. I thought HL2 didn't have a plot.

But then I played it a second time and looked around. Brilliant work Valve!

 

[smwScott]

Agree with you on MP2, but MGS? I've only played Sons of Liberty, but if that's anything like the others I can't agree it had a good plot. A collection of daft-ass nonsensical plot twists heaped on top of each do not make a good plot. I nearly fell asleep during the last half hour.

It would have really helped if you played MGS1, which admittedly had a far superior plot (or at least it was told better). MGS2 did get a little melodramatic in places, but if you think about the whole story arc it was surprisingly intellectual for a video game, even raising quite a few philosophical questions. I know a lot of people don't like the "extreme" plot of MGS games but I do. And I hear MGS3 returns to the story telling methods of the original game which was much better.

While I like the plot of MGS games better, Max Payne games are told and conveyed better than just about any game out there. I also like HL2s storytelling elements, and the way they convey the plot to you. Only problem is that people who didn't know this going in never think to look at all the details, because they aren't used to them being there, therefore the plot is lost on most of the audience.

 

[MysticalMrBob]

So wait? If Barney survives, who were the guys I killed/were killed in HL1?

And HL2 tells it's story quite deeply. I don't know if I like having to go online to find the details, but I like that they're "there" but not super cutscened and you have to find them. It's a little too tough when you must go online to understand everything, and maybe a few more hints (more detailed then a hard to read/decipher newspaper clipping on a post board or random graffiti) but otherwise it's pretty cool.

I mean, if this were real life, they wouldn't give you a history lesson as they'd assume you'd know. You'd probably tell them you don't know, and ask what's going on, but I just try to imagine Gordon as a shy geek who doesn't want to feel stupid.

 

[jimmyjam]

So wait? If Barney survives, who were the guys I killed/were killed in HL1?

I certainly hope you're joking
does it need to be explained to you that they weren't all the same guy?

 

[fabianoag]

If you're going to call that 'multiple plot lines' you'd better extend the same courtesy to UT2004, Max Payne 2, FarCry et al.

Max Payne 2 definietely did have a plot, and so did Far Cry to an extent. I don't see why the courtesy should be extended to Ut though...

 

[Tantalus]

Wouldn't you fight alongside the people who set you free?

No, I would stab them in the back and reap the rewards.