Where were the busses?

[No Limit]

Well, we now know:

http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/091805/new_blanco001.shtml

Hours after the hurricane hit Aug. 29, the Federal Emergency Management Agency announced a plan to send 500 commercial buses into New Orleans to rescue thousands of people left stranded on highways, overpasses and in shelters, hospitals and homes.

On the day of the storm, or perhaps the day after, FEMA turned down the state's suggestion to use school buses because they are not air conditioned, Blanco said Friday in an interview.

Another **** up by FEMA which the right tried to blame on state and local officials.

 

[Kmack]

I saw this piece on the news, they had a brilliant plan to use a ton o' busses to move people and help evacuate, but instead they just sit there and eventually get flooded. i imagine we will see many more of these botches uncovered in the upcoming months. gentlemen, get those fingers ready to point:cheers:

 

[Sulkdodds]

Oh dear.

 

[skarrob]

Why send 500 commercial buses into N.O.afterwards? They should have used public transportation ie school buses and any other city transportation before the storm hit maybe 2 days do ya think. http://www.theadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050916/OPINION03/509160325/1014/OPINION http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/002595.html Hers the pics of the buses

 

[Adabiviak]

Dude, if it even occurs to you that a hurricane is so bad that you are leaving town, sled dogs will work. I can't believe they were concerned about air conditioning.

 

[Tr0n]

I can't believe they were concerned about air conditioning.

Only in America.™

 

[dream431ca]

Only in America.™

Ya. That should be a trademark. It's also really rediculous.

Also the highways are just packed with cars...in 12 hours, people have moved 10 miles . Poor people.

 

[MiccyNarc]

Well, we now know:

http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/091805/new_blanco001.shtml



Another **** up by FEMA which the right tried to blame on state and local officials.

Day of the storm or day after?

Isn't that a little late?
Couldn't the mayor, if he had half a brain, have used them, I dunno, when the mandatory became mandatory?

 

[Raziaar]

Another **** up by FEMA which the right tried to blame on state and local officials.

What I don't get, is all the bitching going on about WHICH portion of the government was at fault here.

Here's something for you. ITS ALL GOVERNMENT. The whole damn thing was at fault.

 

[No Limit]

What I don't get, is all the bitching going on about WHICH portion of the government was at fault here.

Here's something for you. ITS ALL GOVERNMENT. The whole damn thing was at fault.

Nope. That's total bullshit. Why can't you bring yourself to admit that FEMA is responsible for all federal emergencies; they are named FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY, they are supposed to mange federal emergencies!!! Yes, local officals do what they can but it all boils down to FEMA's resources and planning. You can not expect a single town without any real resources to give an appropriate response. Let me ask you this, do you think it was a good idea for Bush to appoint his political friends, instead of experts, to manage FEMA? If that part doesn't get in to your head nothing will.

 

[Raziaar]

Nope. That's total bullshit. Why can't you bring yourself to admit that FEMA is responsible for all federal emergencies; they are named FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY, they are supposed to mange federal emergencies!!! Yes, local officals do what they can but it all boils down to FEMA's resources and planning. You can not expect a single town without any real resources to give an appropriate response. Let me ask you this, do you think it was a good idea for Bush to appoint his political friends, instead of experts, to manage FEMA? If that part doesn't get in to your head nothing will.

Dude? What the **** is your problem? Can't you ****ing see that I know FEMA totally ****ed up? Do you somehow think I am, and all republicans are some sort of FEMA appologists? You seem to strive to prove people wrong at every turn, no matter what it is, and you can't seem to get it through your head that we're on the same side. Except for the fact that i'm not the one under the delusion that FEMA was the ONLY one at fault here.

No organization can be capable of handling everything, even if it handles things extremely well. The local government cannot just sit on its hands and expect somebody else to solve everything, and point the finger at them if things go badly. Same goes for the federal organizations... they can't expect the local areas to solve everything on their own either. The whole fact of what happened goes to show that everybody completely ****ed up and ruined lives. Bush ****ed up, FEMA ****ed up, LA officials ****ed up too. I just can't understand how you can sit and say there was only one organization at fault here.


And its funny to watch you as you seem to spin things around as if FEMA somehow equates to republicans/conservatives.

 

[No Limit]

Dude? What the **** is your problem? Can't you ****ing see that I know FEMA totally ****ed up? Do you somehow think I am, and all republicans are some sort of FEMA appologists? You seem to strive to prove people wrong at every turn, no matter what it is, and you can't seem to get it through your head that we're on the same side. Except for the fact that i'm not the one under the delusion that FEMA was the ONLY one at fault here.

You are completely ignoring what I am telling you. You missed the part where I asked you if you think it was a good idea for Bush, the guy you voted for twice (I'm assuming), to appoint his political firends with no experiance instead of actual experets to manage FEMA. That directly ties in to Republicans such as yourself. There are Republicans that have figured out Bush is not good for them and those Republicans I can somehow respect, you have not come to that conclusion yet so I will attack your political beliefs around every corner. Feel free to do the same to me if you feel my political beliefs are wrong, but don't get pissed when you can't prove me wrong. So again, do you support Bush's actions in this hurricane especially on the issue of the people he appointed to manage FEMA.

No organization can be capable of handling everything, even if it handles things extremely well. The local government cannot just sit on its hands and expect somebody else to solve everything, and point the finger at them if things go badly.

Federal authorities are the only ones doing the finger pointing, I haven't heard any local officials blame federal offics as they should. Can you please tell me how you think local officials just sat on their hands? from what I recall they did everything they could, you just seem to have bought in to the freeper mentallity.

Same goes for the federal organizations... they can't expect the local areas to solve everything on their own either. The whole fact of what happened goes to show that everybody completely ****ed up and ruined lives. Bush ****ed up, FEMA ****ed up, LA officials ****ed up too. I just can't understand how you can sit and say there was only one organization at fault here.

I blame the Federal Emergency Management Agency for failing to manage a federal emergency. I could careless about local officials. Local officials do not have the resources to manage an emergency like this, they did everything they could.

And its funny to watch you as you seem to spin things around as if FEMA somehow equates to republicans/conservatives.

Umm, hello!!! FEMA is currently ran by president Bush, a republican/conservative.

 

[Raziaar]

You are completely ignoring what I am telling you. You missed the part where I asked you if you think it was a good idea for Bush, the guy you voted for twice (I'm assuming), to appoint his political firends with no experiance instead of actual experets to manage FEMA. That directly ties in to Republicans such as yourself. There are Republicans that have figured out Bush is not good for them and those Republicans I can somehow respect, you have not come to that conclusion yet so I will attack your political beliefs around every corner. Feel free to do the same to me if you feel my political beliefs are wrong, but don't get pissed when you can't prove me wrong. So again, do you support Bush's actions in this hurricane especially on the issue of the people he appointed to manage FEMA.

Do you somehow think that supporting someone(I havent even said I still support the guy) means you approve of everything they do? Surely I hope you do not.

Federal authorities are the only ones doing the finger pointing, I haven't heard any local officials blame federal offics as they should. Can you please tell me how you think local officials just sat on their hands? from what I recall they did everything they could, you just seem to have bought in to the freeper mentallity.

I didn't say local officials sat on their hands. I was describing something that they cannot do. I was speaking hypothetically. Sorry, I thought it was clear enough, maybe next time i'll label it.

Also. What is the freeper mentality? If the state and city officials did all they could, we wouldnt have had so many people inside the city when the hurricane hit, crowded inside public buildings and what not. Evacuations shouldnt just expect the people who have the means... they should step up, and make a true effort to evactuate everybody they possibly can, as effectively as they can using any available means. City busses, government vehicles, school busses, etc. And don't give me that crap about FEMA shooing them away. If somebody does something as stupid as that, you don't just sit on your ass and nod your head saying, "Yes sir". You take charge, and you get resources out there for people to utilize.

I blame the Federal Emergency Management Agency for failing to manage a federal emergency. I could careless about local officials. Local officials do not have the resources to manage an emergency like this, they did everything they could.

Local officials are the ones who could have saved the most human lives, by making sure everybody possible was out of the city before the hurricane hit ground. You have the resources of a very large, economically powerful city. Simply put, they didn't do everything they could. FEMA did a piss poor job, and so did the officials in new orleans and LA. You make it sound like they only had the resources to warn people, and call out for an evactuation and leave the rest to the citizens themselves.

Umm, hello!!! FEMA is currently ran by president Bush, a republican/conservative.

It's a government organization. It doesn't directly relate to Bush. Its not like he heads up the thing himself. Just because bush is president, doesn't mean he answers personally to every single government organization. USPS lose your mail? Going to personally blame bush for it?

Yes... bush should have made sure FEMA was doing its job properly. Of course, no doubt about it. Yes, BUSH made some stupid decisions on who he put in charge of FEMA. No doubt about it. Yes, FEMA totally ****ed up, no doubt about it. That doesn't mean all the blame falls on bush. And all the blame doesn't fall on FEMA either. They are not the only group of people who have the power to save lives, and help prevent disaster.

 

[No Limit]

Do you somehow think that supporting someone(I havent even said I still support the guy) means you approve of everything they do? Surely I hope you do not.

It seems you do as you still haven't said what Bush did was wrong. I simply can't get you to say it, you will write a piss poor response like the one above instead of actually saying Bush ****ed up big time and this is a clear example of his incompetence. Again, do you support Bush giving the job of managing FEMA to his political friends with no experiance instead of actual experts. 3rd time I asked, would be nice to finally get a response.

I didn't say local officials sat on their hands. I was describing something that they cannot do. I was speaking hypothetically. Sorry, I thought it was clear enough, maybe next time i'll label it.

???

I said that the local officials did all they could to refute what you said, not sure what you mean there.

Also. What is the freeper mentality?

Never admitting we have a failure for a president.

If the state and city officials did all they could, we wouldnt have had so many people inside the city when the hurricane hit, crowded inside public buildings and what not. Evacuations shouldnt just expect the people who have the means... they should step up, and make a true effort to evactuate everybody they possibly can, as effectively as they can using any available means. City busses, government vehicles, school busses, etc. And don't give me that crap about FEMA shooing them away. If somebody does something as stupid as that, you don't just sit on your ass and nod your head saying, "Yes sir". You take charge, and you get resources out there for people to utilize.

Don't give you crap about FEMA shooting them away? Do you have any understanding of how FEMA works for christ sake? After local authorities transfered all power to FEMA FEMA was in charge of everything. Again, local authorites had no resources to deal with this. All city workers were evacuated, police officers were leaving to take care of their families and federal authorities, under FEMA, were the only ones available. Now here is something else for you to read up on since you don't seem to understand people not getting evacuated quickly was again the fault of FEMA since FEMA was in charge:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...99.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

Offer of buses fell between the cracks

By Andrew Martin and Andrew Zajac
Washington Bureau
Published September 23, 2005

WASHINGTON -- Two days after Hurricane Katrina made landfall, as images of devastation along the Gulf Coast and despair in New Orleans flickered across television screens, the head of one of the nation's largest bus associations repeatedly called federal disaster officials to offer help.

Peter Pantuso of the American Bus Association said he spent much of the day on Wednesday, Aug. 31, trying to find someone at the Federal Emergency Management Agency who could tell him how many buses were needed for an evacuation, where they should be sent and who was overseeing the effort.

"We never talked directly to FEMA or got a call back from them," Pantuso said.

Pantuso, whose members include some of the nation's largest motor coach companies, including Greyhound and Coach USA, eventually learned that the job of extracting tens of thousands of residents from flooded New Orleans wasn't being handled by FEMA at all.

Instead the agency had farmed the work out to a trucking logistics firm, Landstar Express America, which in turn hired a limousine company, which in turn engaged a travel management company.

There you go. An example of the Republican ideology of privitizing everything killing thousands upon thousands. I won't even point out the fact that they exported this job to a company that was a huge contributor to the Bush/Cheney campaign. But again, I suppose that this is just another small mistake and everyone is to blame.

Local officials are the ones who could have saved the most human lives, by making sure everybody possible was out of the city before the hurricane hit ground. You have the resources of a very large, economically powerful city. Simply put, they didn't do everything they could. FEMA did a piss poor job, and so did the officials in new orleans and LA. You make it sound like they only had the resources to warn people, and call out for an evactuation and leave the rest to the citizens themselves.

You keep repeating this "local officials were responsible for evacuations" when I already posted countless of legal government documents since Katrina hit that directly contradict what you are saying. You haven't posted any evidance what so ever, you just keep repeating those freeper talking points.

It's a government organization. It doesn't directly relate to Bush. Its not like he heads up the thing himself. Just because bush is president, doesn't mean he answers personally to every single government organization. USPS lose your mail? Going to personally blame bush for it?

More bullshit from you I already refuted. Bush was the one that sets up all the funding and all the management for FEMA. It was Bush that appointed his political friends, not experts, to run it. He is also the one that pushed for privitizing FEMA which lead to the catastrophe with the Grey Hound busses I posted above.

Yes... bush should have made sure FEMA was doing its job properly. Of course, no doubt about it. Yes, BUSH made some stupid decisions on who he put in charge of FEMA. No doubt about it. Yes, FEMA totally ****ed up, no doubt about it. That doesn't mean all the blame falls on bush. And all the blame doesn't fall on FEMA either. They are not the only group of people who have the power to save lives, and help prevent disaster.

Yopu finally addressed my question so ignore what I said above, I didn't see this till now. However, you say Bush was the one that appointed all these people to FEMA yet it is not his fault for FEMA ****ing up, you are making no sense and you certainly aren't convincing anyone. Again, this is that freeper mentality I was talking about; no matter how bad Bush ****s up, no matter how many people die because of it, it is never his fault completely.

 

[Raziaar]

It seems you do as you still haven't said what Bush did was wrong. I simply can't get you to say it, you will write a piss poor response like the one above instead of actually saying Bush ****ed up big time and this is a clear example of his incompetence. Again, do you support Bush giving the job of managing FEMA to his political friends with no experiance instead of actual experts. 3rd time I asked, would be nice to finally get a response.

What the **** are you talking about dude? Are you high? At the bottom of my last response, I said bush made stupid decision about who he put in charge in fema? CAN YOU READ? Obviously not. So that would be a big fat ****ing no I don't support it. Sorry, but you're acting like a moron here.

???

I said that the local officials did all they could to refute what you said, not sure what you mean there.

I said that in response to you misunderstanding what I had said previously. Once again dude, READ.

Never admitting we have a failure for a president.

Why does one have to admit that? What does it solve? Please, do tell me. Does somehow saying, "We have a total ****tard for a president" Change anything? Or do you just keep wanting to hear it to get your jollies off?

Don't give you crap about FEMA shooting them away? Do you have any understanding of how FEMA works for christ sake? After local authorities transfered all power to FEMA FEMA was in charge of everything. Again, local authorites had no resources to deal with this. All city workers were evacuated, police officers were leaving to take care of their families and federal authorities, under FEMA, were the only ones available. Now here is something else for you to read up on since you don't seem to understand people not getting evacuated quickly was again the fault of FEMA since FEMA was in charge:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...99.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

First of all, you have to register for whatever article it is you're posting on. Find me one that doesn't require registration. I hate registering to websites that I never visit again. Second, FEMA arrived late. Its hard for them to be in charge of everything when they arrive late. Also... what you just said, thats a sure sign of improper handling of things, You don't take city workers and evacuate them before everybody else is evacutated. You don't take all these poor people who have no means of transportation out of the city and say, "Guess what, we're leaving... see ya when we come back, hope yer not dead!" **** no. You're supposed to have these peoples, whos duty is to their cities, and get everybody the **** out of dodge before katrina hits. Obviously federal aid came too late, but where was local aid while federal aid was still slow in coming? Oh wait... they were gone, evacuated, leaving a hundred thousand people behind. And you're telling me that was the right thing to do? Cause you seem to be defending it.

With all the past criticisms of FEMA, why were you all placing so much stock in the fact that FEMA would shine through, anyways? Look at the past hurricanes its been involved with that it had a poor showing to. You know. I don't even know why we keep arguing about this point, or especially why you're so damn ravenous about it. I agree with you, ya dolt. FEMA didn't do their job properly. How many ways can I say it for you to make you happy? Do I have to include something in there about "bush is an idiot, and on a lesser note, fema did an awful job"? I've already been saying FEMA screwed up. I've said it countless times already(should I go back and count?). I'm also saying local officials screwed up too. Is that the part that you seem to be so vehemently against, like somehow its not the truth? If its not the truth, are you saying 100% of the blame is on FEMA?

There you go. An example of the Republican ideology of privitizing everything killing thousands upon thousands. I won't even point out the fact that they exported this job to a company that was a huge contributor to the Bush/Cheney campaign. But again, I suppose that this is just another small mistake and everyone is to blame.

You need to stop with your brandishing republican on everything, like somehow it helps your cause. You sound like a broken record. Let me put it bluntly for you. FEMA IS NOT A ****ING REPUBLICAN ORGANIZATION. Damn, I have been trying to refrain from insults, but you're behaving like a total idiot here man.

And those busses... They're talking about after the city was flooded, and people were dying. What about before? They needed to get those busses out there BEFORe, to evacuate people. Evacuation means getting people out before the brunt of the storm hits, not after. Sheesh. If FEMA is refusing the help of those busses, I don't give a **** about who's in charge of things, you take those busses, you get drivers for them, and you go and rescue people. Ya don't just say, "Well, fema is handling it, so we'll just oblige with what they say and not use these busses" like a bunch of idiots. If order breaks down, you spring up new order. If there's a fire burning in a house, and these fire fighters are loitering outside, and telling nobody to go inside, despite the fact that somebody is inside with the chance of dying, you don't obey them. At least, I wouldn't. I'd risk my life to go in and safe the person/people because the fire fighters were sitting on their asses making bad decisions. On one hand, you're blaming FEMA for their lack of efficiency, and on the other hand, you're defending them, no limit, on the fact that they are in charge, so everybody has to obey them.

You keep repeating this "local officials were responsible for evacuations" when I already posted countless of legal government documents since Katrina hit that directly contradict what you are saying. You haven't posted any evidance what so ever, you just keep repeating those freeper talking points.

Again with the freeper. Who the **** am I "freeping"? Quit talking out of your ass, man. Are you telling me that just because FEMA was responsible for doing their duties, the local authorities get a free pass around go? You take an organization, like FEMA, who has on numerous occasions flopped in disaster situations, and you put all the trust in them and just evacuate yourselves while leaving a hundred thousand other people in the city? Thats bullshit.

More bullshit from you I already refuted. Bush was the one that sets up all the funding and all the management for FEMA. It was Bush that appointed his political friends, not experts, to run it. He is also the one that pushed for privitizing FEMA which lead to the catastrophe with the Grey Hound busses I posted above.

Refuted? You didn't refute anything. Do you want me to pull up the facts about FEMA and how poor its response times and behavior is in past hurricanes? How about Hurricane Andrew? Go look it up, genius. That was before GW got into the whitehouse, and they were still flopping morons then. And Hurricane Hugo before that. Even earlier than Andrew, and also before bush was in office. WAAAAY before. And still, fema was, and I quote, "a bunch of bureacratic jackasses."

Soooo.... go on.

Yopu finally addressed my question so ignore what I said above, I didn't see this till now. However, you say Bush was the one that appointed all these people to FEMA yet it is not his fault for FEMA ****ing up, you are making no sense and you certainly aren't convincing anyone. Again, this is that freeper mentality I was talking about; no matter how bad Bush ****s up, no matter how many people die because of it, it is never his fault completely.

Because its *NOT* his fault completely. Is it now? Please, say it is... so I can pull up your post about how you "didn't say it was 100% bushes fault" or something along those lines. I'm sitting here agreeing with exactly what you said, in another thread.

<spits in disgust> Moron.


P.S. All those insults. It was to your behavior in these threads. Call em personal insults, I don't care. But I stand by them either way.


Oh... and you know what? All those people affected by the hurricane? Most of those people are the stupid, lying scum shit republicans you're always mindlessly babbling about. So don't pretend like you care, my friend. I'm done with this thread. All you care about is political agenda, and could care less about the human suffering, except for when it promotes your aforementioned agenda. Why don't you go and donate something to the red cross, for christs sake instead of posting how excited you are that democrats have a better chance of getting elected because of hurricane katrina.

 

[No Limit]

What the **** are you talking about dude? Are you high? At the bottom of my last response, I said bush made stupid decision about who he put in charge in fema? CAN YOU READ? Obviously not. So that would be a big fat ****ing no I don't support it. Sorry, but you're acting like a moron here.

I love it, when things get heated in a debate and you can't refute facts you start turning to personal attacks. Guess what, I can keep my cool; you can't.

Why does one have to admit that? What does it solve? Please, do tell me. Does somehow saying, "We have a total ****tard for a president" Change anything? Or do you just keep wanting to hear it to get your jollies off?

Why? Because we live in a democracy. When people like you don't admit we have a total failure for a president he gets reelected like he did last year. And if you don't admit it another Bush apologist that does exactly the same as him will be elected in 08. With that said do you finally admit he is a total failure as a leader?

First of all, you have to register for whatever article it is you're posting on. Find me one that doesn't require registration. I hate registering to websites that I never visit again. Second, FEMA arrived late. Its hard for them to be in charge of everything when they arrive late. Also... what you just said, thats a sure sign of improper handling of things, You don't take city workers and evacuate them before everybody else is evacutated. You don't take all these poor people who have no means of transportation out of the city and say, "Guess what, we're leaving... see ya when we come back, hope yer not dead!" **** no. You're supposed to have these peoples, whos duty is to their cities, and get everybody the **** out of dodge before katrina hits. Obviously federal aid came too late, but where was local aid while federal aid was still slow in coming? Oh wait... they were gone, evacuated, leaving a hundred thousand people behind. And you're telling me that was the right thing to do? Cause you seem to be defending it.

Once again you have absolutely no idea how anything works, you've adopted to the freeper mentality (yes, I will repeat this every chance I get) and will not look at simple facts and common sense because it will make the leader you voted for look bad. The reason those city officials are evacuated is because those city officials have lives like you and me. If my house and my family was in danger I would say **** my job, I'm getting the hell out here. That is exactly why FEMA was set up, so those people can get out safely and FEMA can come in and take their job and do it a lot more effectively. They failed miserably in this.

With all the past criticisms of FEMA, why were you all placing so much stock in the fact that FEMA would shine through, anyways? Look at the past hurricanes its been involved with that it had a poor showing to. You know. I don't even know why we keep arguing about this point, or especially why you're so damn ravenous about it. I agree with you, ya dolt. FEMA didn't do their job properly. How many ways can I say it for you to make you happy? Do I have to include something in there about "bush is an idiot, and on a lesser note, fema did an awful job"? I've already been saying FEMA screwed up. I've said it countless times already(should I go back and count?). I'm also saying local officials screwed up too. Is that the part that you seem to be so vehemently against, like somehow its not the truth? If its not the truth, are you saying 100% of the blame is on FEMA?

That last part where you say local officials screwed up is exactly what I'm trying to beat in to your head that you are wrong. What you are trying to do is what freepers do, blame everyone. Yes, local officials weren't effective, FEMA knew this and this is why FEMA was set up in the first place years ago.

You need to stop with your brandishing republican on everything, like somehow it helps your cause. You sound like a broken record. Let me put it bluntly for you. FEMA IS NOT A ****ING REPUBLICAN ORGANIZATION. Damn, I have been trying to refrain from insults, but you're behaving like a total idiot here man.

I already refuted this but you will not stop repeating it. Bush set up the entire management of FEMA, he moved it to homeland security, he pushed for privitizing it, and he cut funding for it, it is a republican organization.

And those busses... They're talking about after the city was flooded, and people were dying. What about before? They needed to get those busses out there BEFORe, to evacuate people. Evacuation means getting people out before the brunt of the storm hits, not after. Sheesh. If FEMA is refusing the help of those busses, I don't give a **** about who's in charge of things, you take those busses, you get drivers for them, and you go and rescue people. Ya don't just say, "Well, fema is handling it, so we'll just oblige with what they say and not use these busses" like a bunch of idiots. If order breaks down, you spring up new order. If there's a fire burning in a house, and these fire fighters are loitering outside, and telling nobody to go inside, despite the fact that somebody is inside with the chance of dying, you don't obey them. At least, I wouldn't. I'd risk my life to go in and safe the person/people because the fire fighters were sitting on their asses making bad decisions. On one hand, you're blaming FEMA for their lack of efficiency, and on the other hand, you're defending them, no limit, on the fact that they are in charge, so everybody has to obey them.

You once again don't know what you are talking about, this is a pattern with you. I think your problem is that you do not want to apply common sense to anything you say. All those school buses that were around had no drivers, all the school bus drivers were being evacuated. It was the job of FEMA to drive in buses using Federal Workers (national guard, army, etc..). They did not do this. Instead they exported the job to a private company that contributed to the Bush campaign because of pressure from Republicans and Bush and that company took 18 hours to get buses ordered. You seemed to have skipped over that point like you have done in the past with so many of my points.

Again with the freeper. Who the **** am I "freeping"? Quit talking out of your ass, man. Are you telling me that just because FEMA was responsible for doing their duties, the local authorities get a free pass around go? You take an organization, like FEMA, who has on numerous occasions flopped in disaster situations, and you put all the trust in them and just evacuate yourselves while leaving a hundred thousand other people in the city? Thats bullshit.

For ****s sake, how many times do I have to repeat this. It is not the job of local authorites to manage federal emergencies. I posted this document and I know you saw it:

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/uscode

TITLE 6--DOMESTIC SECURITY

CHAPTER 1--HOMELAND SECURITY ORGANIZATION

SUBCHAPTER V--EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS AND RESPONSE

Sec. 317. Role of Federal Emergency Management Agency


(a) In general

The functions of the Federal Emergency Management Agency include the
following:
(1) All functions and authorities prescribed by the Robert T.
Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (42 U.S.C.
5121 et seq.).
(2) Carrying out its mission to reduce the loss of life and
property and protect the Nation from all hazards by leading and
supporting the Nation in a comprehensive, risk-based emergency
management program--
(A) of mitigation, by taking sustained actions to reduce or
eliminate long-term risk to people and property from hazards and
their effects;
(B) of planning for building the emergency management
profession to prepare effectively for, mitigate against, respond
to, and recover from any hazard;
(C) of response, by conducting emergency operations to save
lives and property through positioning emergency equipment and
supplies, through evacuating potential victims, through
providing food, water, shelter, and medical care to those in
need, and through restoring critical public services;
(D) of recovery, by rebuilding communities so individuals,
businesses, and governments can function on their own, return to
normal life, and protect against future hazards; and
(E) of increased efficiencies, by coordinating efforts
relating to mitigation, planning, response, and recovery.

(b) Federal Response Plan

(1) Role of FEMA

Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the Federal
Emergency Management Agency shall remain the lead agency for the
Federal Response Plan established under Executive Order No. 12148
(44 Fed. Reg. 43239) and Executive Order No. 12656 (53 Fed. Reg.
47491).

(2) Revision of Response Plan

Not later than 60 days after November 25, 2002, the Director of
the Federal Emergency Management Agency shall revise the Federal
Response Plan to reflect the establishment of and incorporate the
Department.

Refuted? You didn't refute anything. Do you want me to pull up the facts about FEMA and how poor its response times and behavior is in past hurricanes? How about Hurricane Andrew? Go look it up, genius. That was before GW got into the whitehouse, and they were still flopping morons then. And Hurricane Hugo before that. Even earlier than Andrew, and also before bush was in office. WAAAAY before. And still, fema was, and I quote, "a bunch of bureacratic jackasses."

So what you are saying is that when Bush said he has made us safer than any Democrat ever could in last year's election campaign he was lying? No, that can't be.

You are again missing the entire point, after 9/11 steps have been taken to reform FEMA completely. FEMA moved to the department of homeland security, laws were written (the one I posted) that gave them full authority to oversee any national disaster.

Let me ask you this, how did you want the local officials to react? Remember, most police officers deserted, all bus drivers were evacuated with others because their lives were in danger, etc... This is why FEMA was set up and you are ignoring this. Local authorites can not manage an emergency like this since local authorites are, well, local and the people working for local authorities are among those that have to be evacuated so that is when FEMA comes in. How you don't understand this is amazing to me. Lets put you in this position, you are a bus driver for the NO school district. You have a family that lives with you. When New Orleans asks for mandetory evacuations but needs bus drivers do you leave your family behind in danger and go drive a bus around (the same bus FEMA told local officials not to use) or do you take your family and make sure they get to safety? I know I would look out for my family as I would expect FEMA to have a hold on the situation; if you say otherwise I honestly think you are full of shit.

Because its *NOT* his fault completely. Is it now? Please, say it is... so I can pull up your post about how you "didn't say it was 100% bushes fault" or something along those lines. I'm sitting here agreeing with exactly what you said, in another thread.

Please do pull it up. It is not his fault completely in the sense that many lives were going to be lost even if FEMA responded properly. However, thousands upon thousands of lives could have been saved wren't and I blame Bush for every life that could have been saved and wasn't. He is an incompetent leader and I think you already admitted that in context, you just didn't say it. Bush is the same guy that last year during his election campaign suggested Kerry would let you die and that Bush made us safer. That he was a strong leader. I knew then this was total bullshit and you know this now, the question is will you admit it.

 

[No Limit]

First of all, you have to register for whatever article it is you're posting on. Find me one that doesn't require registration. I hate registering to websites that I never visit again. Second, FEMA arrived late. Its hard for them to be in charge of everything when they arrive late. Also... what you just said, thats a sure sign of improper handling of things, You don't take city workers and evacuate them before everybody else is evacutated. You don't take all these poor people who have no means of transportation out of the city and say, "Guess what, we're leaving... see ya when we come back, hope yer not dead!" **** no. You're supposed to have these peoples, whos duty is to their cities, and get everybody the **** out of dodge before katrina hits. Obviously federal aid came too late, but where was local aid while federal aid was still slow in coming? Oh wait... they were gone, evacuated, leaving a hundred thousand people behind. And you're telling me that was the right thing to do? Cause you seem to be defending it.

Go to the other thread I posted on this, lets see what you say about your party's ideal of privitization there. I already gave you most of the article, you know what it talks about if you don't feel like registering.

 

[Raziaar]

Get it through your head. Get it through your head.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD


I'M NOT DEFENDING FEMA!

 

[No Limit]

Get it through your head. Get it through your head.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD


I'M NOT DEFENDING FEMA!

Get this through you head, I am fully aware of who your are not defending

What you are trying to do is blame local authorities to diffuse the blame. You are trying to say that local authorities ****ed up just as bad as FEMA did. That is total bullshit and I pointed this out on numerous occasions but you ignored it each time. I keep telling you local authorities gave all authority to FEMA like THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO as local authorities HAVE NO WAY OF MANAGING A FEDERAL EMERGANCY LIKE THIS. I keep posting documents, examples, etc... You keep pulling stuff out of your ass that doesn't make any sense in the real world. What you are saying is this, we have mendetory evacuations in place but that doesn't mean that you are supposed to evacuate instead you are supposed to drive buses, hold up law and order, deliver food and water, etc... This is total bullshit that simply can not be applied in the real world and that is why FEMA was set up; local officials did all they could do.

 

[Raziaar]

Get this through you head, I am fully aware of who your are not defending

What you are trying to do is blame local authorities to diffuse the blame. You are trying to say that local authorities ****ed up just as bad as FEMA did. That is total bullshit and I pointed this out on numerous occasions but you ignored it each time. I keep telling you local authorities gave all authority to FEMA like THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO as local authorities HAVE NO WAY OF MANAGING A FEDERAL EMERGANCY LIKE THIS.

How am I trying to diffuse blame? Its not like if the local authorities get blamed, somehow fema or bush get blamed less.

I don't see how you can think the local authority desserves no blame. The people needed to be evacuated before the hurricane hit, before the disaster hit. Before FEMA took charge. Are you telling me that they didn't have a means of evacuating their own city? From the looks of all the people left behind, all I can forumulate in my mind as to what they did, is essentially scream out "EVERYBODY FOR THEMSELVES! RUN!"... While a hundred thousand of their citizens had no means to leave down.

That's severe neglect.

 

[No Limit]

How am I trying to diffuse blame? Its not like if the local authorities get blamed, somehow fema or bush get blamed less.

I don't see how you can think the local authority desserves no blame. The people needed to be evacuated before the hurricane hit, before the disaster hit. Before FEMA took charge. Are you telling me that they didn't have a means of evacuating their own city? From the looks of all the people left behind, all I can forumulate in my mind as to what they did, is essentially scream out "EVERYBODY FOR THEMSELVES! RUN!"... While a hundred thousand of their citizens had no means to leave down.

That's severe neglect.

FEMA took charge long before the hurricane hit. LA transfered all power to FEMA on the 27th or 28th (I dont recall exactly). It was the job of FEMA to manage all evacuations as they are required to by federal law. Its all in that document I posted, maybe you can take a few minutes to read it?

What I am saying is Bush is clearly an incompetent leader, something I can't get you to admit. It was the job of FEMA to save as many lives as possible, local authorities did all they could. Simple as that. So since you didn't answer me last time I asked maybe you can do it now, is Bush an incompetent leader?

 

[Raziaar]

FEMA took charge long before the hurricane hit. LA transfered all power to FEMA on the 27th or 28th (I dont recall exactly). It was the job of FEMA to manage all evacuations as they are required to by federal law. Its all in that document I posted, maybe you can take a few minutes to read it?

If Local isn't to blame even a tiny bit, why were locals owning up to the blame anyways? Shouldn't they be saying, "Hell no, we didn't do anything wrong."





"**** those left behind. FEMA will take care of 'em! Just like they did in Hugo and Andrew"

What I am saying is Bush is clearly an incompetent leader, something I can't get you to admit. It was the job of FEMA to save as many lives as possible, local authorities did all they could. Simple as that. So since you didn't answer me last time I asked maybe you can do it now, is Bush an incompetent leader?

Dude. Why does bush seep into everything you say? I swear, you just want to get your jollies off.

"Raziaar said bush is an incompetent leader!" *FAP FAP FAP*

"Oh my god, he just admitted that Liberals are better than Conservatives!" *FAP FAP FAP*



He's most definitely not the best president ever. But he's also not the worst.










*FAP FAP FAP*

 

[No Limit]

If Local isn't to blame even a tiny bit, why were locals owning up to the blame anyways? Shouldn't they be saying, "Hell no, we didn't do anything wrong."

I don't know, for political reasons. I already pointed out I have no respect for governor Blanco after she said she takes responsibility. Fankly I could careless about LA's politics, if they want to elect a different governor thats up to them.

"**** those left behind. FEMA will take care of 'em! Just like they did in Hugo and Andrew"

You didn't address this so let me ask you again. Lets assume you were a school bus driver for New Oreleans and this happens. Lets leave out the fact FEMA told them not to drive those buses. Mandatory evacuations are in place and you know the city is going to flood. Do you take care of your family or do you show up for work to drive buses? If you say you go to work I already know you are full of shit. How many times do I have to repeat this, this is exactly why FEMA was formed. What did you want local officials to do when they had nobody that was willing to come to work? The only thing they could do is transfer power to FEMA which is exactly what they did.

He's most definitely not the best president ever. But he's also not the worst.

Is the guy you voted for a competent leader? Its a very simple question, I don't know why you are having so much trouble with it.

 

[Raziaar]

I don't know, for political reasons. I already pointed out I have no respect for governor Blanco after she said she takes responsibility. Fankly I could careless about LA's politics, if they want to elect a different governor thats up to them.

You didn't address this so let me ask you again. Lets assume you were a school bus driver for New Oreleans and this happens. Lets leave out the fact FEMA told them not to drive those buses. Mandatory evacuations are in place and you know the city is going to flood. Do you take care of your family or do you show up for work to drive buses? If you say you go to work I already know you are full of shit. How many times do I have to repeat this, this is exactly why FEMA was formed. What did you want local officials to do when they had nobody that was willing to come to work? The only thing they could do is transfer power to FEMA which is exactly what they did.

Is the guy you voted for a competent leader? Its a very simple question, I don't know why you are having so much trouble with it.

If I was a regular, ordinary bus driver? Well then hell yes i'd get out of the city. I don't have a duty to protecting the lives of the citizens if i'm a bus driver.


As for your secondary question. DUDE. Just drop it okay? This isn't a thread about bush, so stop asking it.

I know my answer to it, why are you so eager to know it? Why do you keep asking it? It doesn't serve any purpose, and so you'll have to excuse me when I just think you ask because you're hoping i'll say yes, and so you can spew forth onto your keyboard!


*FAP FAP FAP*

 

[No Limit]

If I was a regular, ordinary bus driver? Well then hell yes i'd get out of the city. I don't have a duty to protecting the lives of the citizens if i'm a bus driver.

Okay, so who should drive those buses?

As for your secondary question. DUDE. Just drop it okay? This isn't a thread about bush, so stop asking it.

I know my answer to it, why are you so eager to know it? Why do you keep asking it? It doesn't serve any purpose, and so you'll have to excuse me when I just think you ask because you're hoping i'll say yes, and so you can spew forth onto your keyboard!


*FAP FAP FAP*

Bullshit, can you please cut it out with the personal attacks. This has everything to do with Bush, you voted for him and I challanged you that he is responsible for many deaths because of his incompetence. So is he a competent leader or not? If you do not challange me I will assume you agree.

 

[dream431ca]

Uh oh...here comes the flame war! :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:

 

[No Limit]

Uh oh...here comes the flame war! :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:

Thanks for contributing.

 

[dream431ca]

Thanks for contributing.

You want me to Contribute? ok...I believe that this incident is the Cause of FEMA and not Bush. Why? Cause it doesn't make to much sense. Is Bush incharge of FEMA...maybe...but IMO, it's FEMA's own mistake and not the federal goverment..I don't like bush as much as anyone else, but you can't go and blame him for everything.

 

[No Limit]

You want me to Contribute? ok...I believe that this incident is the Cause of FEMA and not Bush. Why? Cause it doesn't make to much sense. Is Bush incharge of FEMA...maybe...but IMO, it's FEMA's own mistake and not the federal goverment..I don't like bush as much as anyone else, but you can't go and blame him for everything.

You haven't been paying attention. Bush was in controll of everything, he appointed his political friends instead of experts to manage FEMA, he privitzed many aspects of FEMA, he took FEMA under homeland security, and Bush cut FEMA's funding. I don't know how you can know all that and not say Bush is responsible for FEMA.

 

[dream431ca]

You haven't been paying attention. Bush was in controll of everything, he appointed his political friends instead of experts to manage FEMA, he privitzed many aspects of FEMA, he took FEMA under homeland security, and Bush cut FEMA's funding. I don't know how you can know all that and not say Bush is responsible for FEMA.

I missed the part of he appointed all his political friends instead of experts..how do you know this though? Any thing about that I can read?

 

[Raziaar]

You haven't been paying attention. Bush was in controll of everything, he appointed his political friends instead of experts to manage FEMA, he privitzed many aspects of FEMA, he took FEMA under homeland security, and Bush cut FEMA's funding. I don't know how you can know all that and not say Bush is responsible for FEMA.

You started this thread... Many of them in fact. Should you be held responsible for all the flame ridden personal attack posts imbedded within? Some of your threads are HUGELY poor choice threads, with such titles as "republicans are lying scum shit". If you want to apply the same logic to that, you would be the one held responsible for everybody elses actions within that thread, right? Since you made the horrible way to go about starting discussion which would only incite flames.

 

[No Limit]

I missed the part of he appointed all his political friends instead of experts..how do you know this though? Any thing about that I can read?

Its all over the place. Look up FEMA Director Michael Brown on google. And he is only one of the many, most of FEMA's top management has no experiance in disasters, they are all political contributors to Bush and his campaign. You might also want to read this;

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92215

 

[No Limit]

You started this thread... Many of them in fact. Should you be held responsible for all the flame ridden personal attack posts imbedded within? Some of your threads are HUGELY poor choice threads, with such titles as "republicans are lying scum shit". If you want to apply the same logic to that, you would be the one held responsible for everybody elses actions within that thread, right? Since you made the horrible way to go about starting discussion which would only incite flames.

I will admit I get a little heated at times. But I have no idea what that has to do with anything. Care to address this post, I've been waiting:

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1604091&postcount=25

 

[Raziaar]

I will admit I get a little heated at times. But I have no idea what that has to do with anything. Care to address this post, I've been waiting:

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1604091&postcount=25

[sarcasm] Bush is incompetent.[/sarcasm]


Happy now? Man, this is hilarious the way you follow me around asking that same question :-P



AAAAND. What I was talking about, was exactly what you were. You're blaming bush almost entirely for FEMA because of who he put in charge of FEMA, and the funding he gave them, DESPITE the fact that FEMA is NOT operated by bush, but is in fact operated by the people appointed. So with what I was rambling about, lets assume Your threads are FEMA. And the titles and content within which always strive to incite flames from the other side are bush's appointees, with you of course being bush. You have no control over how the thread turns out, because you don't control the other people posting within it. Therefore you shouldn't be held solely responsible. Responsible for making a piss poor choice in how you named/started your threads yes, but not in how each individual operates within.

Fact of the matter is, the main people responsible for FEMA are those who are in the power positions within FEMA, even if bush did appoint a dipshit.

 

[No Limit]

[sarcasm] Bush is incompetent.[/sarcasm]


Happy now? Man, this is hilarious the way you follow me around asking that same question :-P

Okay, so you think Bush is an incompetent leader. Hopefully you won't vote for anyone in 08 that supported this incompetent leader. If you do all reasoning has been lost on you.

Also, care to tell me who should have driven those buses or do you admit it was not the responsibility of local officials to move those buses but instead it was the responsiblity of FEMA?

 

[dream431ca]

Its all over the place. Look up FEMA Director Michael Brown on google. And he is only one of the many, most of FEMA's top management has no experiance in disasters, they are all political contributors to Bush and his campaign. You might also want to read this;

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92215

You think that the media is a good source...what if Bush controlls the media, then what? The threads you start are not very rational as in, they give no explanation or proof of your statements. Politics is not just about rants about bush you know. Your earlier threads on Bush made more sense than this one.

 

[Tr0n]

Bitches.

 

[No Limit]

You think that the media is a good source...what if Bush controlls the media, then what? The threads you start are not very rational as in, they give no explanation or proof of your statements. Politics is not just about rants about bush you know. Your earlier threads on Bush made more sense than this one.

Take it from me, maybe you shouldn't post on the politics board.

And Raziaar, I would appreciate a response. Incase you haven't found out I don't like to leave my questions out there for you to ignore.

 

[Raziaar]

Okay, so you think Bush is an incompetent leader. Hopefully you won't vote for anyone in 08 that supported this incompetent leader. If you do all reasoning has been lost on you.

I didn't say that. I also didn't not say that. Didn't you see the disclaimer? :naughty:


ANyways. I might be back later. I really shouldnt be talking in politics. I become ghastly.

 

[No Limit]

I didn't say that. I also didn't not say that. Didn't you see the disclaimer? :naughty:


ANyways. I might be back later. I really shouldnt be talking in politics. I become ghastly.

Come back and address the question please. Thousands of people have died so I find it disturbing that you find this humorous because I certainly don't.