Who had the original idea's?

[whiskeychaser]

I just started playing half life for the first time. I'm about 3 hours in I guess. I can't help but notice all the similarities between this and doom 3. Monsters spawning in a ball of lightning. The big mining elevator that descends forever. The health packs on the wall. My question is, did half life copy things from the original doom? Or did doom3 rip off the original half life?
On a side note, I hope those annoying round balls that screech aren't in half life 2.

 

[poseyjmac]

or a scripted scene with gibs coming out of the vent.. monsters teleporting in is pretty general, but everything else you mentioned its likely iD borrowed these ideas from halflife.

 

[nimh]

they all borrow ideas from each other, just like eveything else.

 

[She]

or a scripted scene with gibs coming out of the vent.. monsters teleporting in is pretty general, but everything else you mentioned its likely iD borrowed these ideas from halflife.

Everything else?

Like what?
Traveling to zen = traveling to Hell.. (doom2)
Monsters teleporting in, taking over a "base".. (doom)
Escaping a base (doom)

 

[poseyjmac]

most of that stuff is in a bunch of games, long before halflife1.

and the rest is ripped off from doom.

why people are lame enough to talk about "doom3 vs. halflife2" like it's some sort of war is beyond me.

so. stfu plz

care to elaborate? which games had health packs on walls, large elevator that descends into the depths, or gibs falling out of a vent?

 

[poseyjmac]

Everything else?

Like what?
Traveling to zen = traveling to Hell.. (doom2)
Monsters teleporting in, taking over a "base".. (doom)
Escaping a base (doom)

he didn't mention those. and in my post i said monsters teleporting was general so it shouldn't be counted.

 

[She]

he didn't mention those. and in my post i said monsters teleporting was general so it shouldn't be counted.

Sure.. it's general..

But still..
Monsters teleporting in from Hell.. = Monsters teleporting in from planet zen.

 

[NeLi]

Everything else?

Like what?
Traveling to zen = traveling to Hell.. (doom2)
Monsters teleporting in, taking over a "base".. (doom)
Escaping a base (doom)

*I hope you're not being serious... "Travelling to other places" exists in most good games, so duh.

*Monsters taking over a complex? Yeah. We haven't seen that before (sarcasm for you monkeys out there)...I doubt DooM was the first game to use this "idea" though,..

ESCAPING A BASE? That's used in basically every ****ing FPS out there.

So, the conclusion is that no, Half-life's story is not original, (just like DooMs), but it was the way the story played out that was so cool.

 

[She]

*I hope you're not being serious... "Travelling to other places" exists in most good games, so duh.

*Monsters taking over a complex? Yeah. We haven't seen that before...I doubt DooM was the first game to use this "idea" though,..

ESCAPING A BASE? That's used in basically every ****ing FPS out there.

Im talking about HALF-LIFE2 and DOOM.. this thread is about HL and DOOM no?

Or hould we compare Finalfantasy to Wolfenstein3d?? LOL

 

[poseyjmac]

Sure.. it's general..

But still..
Monsters teleporting in from Hell.. = Monsters teleporting in from planet zen.

true, although still general. monsters gotta come from somewhere! :afro:

 

[NeLi]

Im talking about HALF-LIFE2 and DOOM.. this thread is about HL and DOOM no?

Or hould we compare Finalfantasy to Wolfenstein3d?? LOL

I'm talking about HALF-LIFE2 and DOOM.. this thread is about HL and DOOM no

So you're talking about HL2 vs DOOM in a thread about HL vs DOOM, when I'm talking about HL vs DOOM, yet you flame me....You're ****ing drunk or something.

 

[whiskeychaser]

The reason I asked was because I found doom 3 to be pretty boring. And now I can see why, they have added pretty graphics sure, but they added nothing as far as innovative gameplay. The AI on the evil marines in HL1 is better than any monster in doom3. I just hope HL 2 can live up to the hype. Peace

 

[Moofy]

Yeah i noticed in playing doom3 that felt like it was kinda ripping off some stuff from half-life. Not basic ideas but really specific stuff like the health packs on the wall and the way the game starts with a normal day of work going to hell instantly.

 

[fez]

apart from the pretty gfx doom3 gets boring very quickly.

AI is shit on all of the monsters. The whole "its dark must use my torch" thing wears thin after a while as well. The game is very samey for long periods

 

[Logic]

The original Doom was a shoot-everything-that-moves game (as nearly all FPS games were back then). Where Half-Life was revolutionary was it's approach to storytelling - the 'normal work day' part of the game before things go wrong, the friendly NPCs, the enemies fighting amongst themselves (grunts vs aliens), relatively long periods of time in elevators or other environmental features.. all these things seemed very fresh and new compared to most games back then, and since then, most FPS games have been somewhat influenced by Half-Life's approach. Doom 3 is certainly not an exception - while the basic premise comes from the original Doom, the pre-disaster section and friendly scientists, for example, certainly didn't. With that said, though, ID were the leading pioneers of the FPS genre long before Half-Life, so it's certainly not a clear cut case of who had all the ideas first. Over time, FPS developers have brought their own ideas to the genre, while making use of techniques that other developers have made successful.

Personally I don't find much of Doom 3 to be original, but I see nothing wrong with ID trying to make a good straight-forward FPS when they themselves brought the genre into the mainstream.

 

[She]

So you're talking about HL2 vs DOOM in a thread about HL vs DOOM, when I'm talking about HL vs DOOM, yet you flame me....You're ****ing drunk or something.

LOL!!!!!!

hahahaha. wtf are you talking about??
Me talking about Hl2??
And no, i dont flame you.. im not an idiot.

When do you have to escape from a base in HL2??
When do you travel to Xen in HL2??
(i dont know.. neither do you)

Did i ever state that i was talking about HL2??

Where Half-Life was revolutionary was it's approach to storytelling

In Quake2.. there was a "story"... the difference between Quake2 and HL is that in HL there is ALOT more interaction.. ( and graphics differences and so on)

 

[oldagerocker]

most of that stuff is in a bunch of games, long before halflife1.

and the rest is ripped off from doom.

why people are lame enough to talk about "doom3 vs. halflife2" like it's some sort of war is beyond me.

so. stfu plz

quoted for emphasis. :bonce:

 

[Cybernoid]

Monsters spawning in a ball of lightning.

That was "invented" in the original Doom back in 1993, though Half-Life has a more logical reason for monsters appearing out of nowhere.

The health packs on the wall.

Wall-mounted medkits were probably introduced in Half-Life.

My question is, did half life copy things from the original doom?

Everyone copied from Doom. Doom started everything.

Or did doom3 rip off the original half life?

There is no such thing as "ripping off." If a game introduces something nice, other developers will copy or adapt it to their own games. If no one "ripped off" anything, we'd still be playing the original Doom.

 

[kaellinn18]

Did i ever state that i was talking about HL2??

Im talking about HALF-LIFE2 and DOOM..

Yes...yes you did...

 

[She]

Yes...yes you did...

OMG! These forums made me press the 2 tangent!
I was talking about HL1 and Doom...
Wrong typing.

 

[whiskeychaser]

thanks cyber, your post was very informative.

 

[DarkDamo]

for me doom3 got boring very quickly. ive stopped playing it because of the repitition of things. i got about 3/4ths of the way through the game and i cannot be bothered to finish it...... :sniper:

let hope hl2 isnt "wow...this game is awsome" at the start than 5hrs in its like "this AGAIN". i dont think HL2 would be like this but how knows

if nobody was able to steal/borrow/rip off ideas from other game ppl would still be playing doom [as Cybernoid said]

 

[Link]

Yes, HL1 used some ideas from doom, but take it to that level and say that anything FPS nicked dooms idea as it was the first fps ever. Except you would be wrong, as wolf came out first (Albeit made by ID also).

Regardless, it would be impossible to make a game in the same genre as a previous game without using some of the original ideas. HL1 aliens teleport in? Nicked from dooms aliens. HL1 aliens don't teleport in? Nicked from dooms grunts. See where I'm going with this? The only way to stop that would have been to remove all the enemys.

However, the far more important point when we talk about originality regarding storylines.

Doom: Monsters from hell have taken over our base. We want it back. Heres a pistol and a couple of bullets, meet you back here in, say, an hour?

HL1: You are a scientist working for a corporation, with excellent (For the time) AI guiding and helping you to the conclusion of the game, through which you can sit and think (At any point) "What am I trying to do? Oh yes, I have to do this because..." whilst the environments are geared to looking like a real set up (again, done well for the time) so all the time you feel that you are there taking part in an event, not just running around killing everything until everything is dead. You do, but that dosen't feel like your objective.

 

[She]

Yes, HL1 used some ideas from doom, but take it to that level and say that anything FPS nicked dooms idea as it was the first fps ever. Except you would be wrong, as wolf came out first (Albeit made by ID also).

No, Wolfenstein3d (DOS) is not the first FPS..
There were 2 FPS games before that..

Catacombs 3D and Hovertank 3D..
Also by ID.

Oh.. and why not comparing QUAKE2 & HL1??
Quake2 has Objectives and "story" in it.
Doom came out 1994... it's pretty old no?

 

[NeptuneUK]

Wolfenstein 3d was the first

 

[NeLi]

*giggles*

These forums are fun.

 

[dkelly]

Wolfenstein 3d was the first

You shoud have read the post right above you before posting, for she is right.

 

[Demon Wraith]

Why do idiots insist that if someone did something even remotely similar to something already done they must be "ripping off?" Talking about riding an elevator for crying out loud. What's next? Who's ripping off the idea for a shotgun?

Xen != Hell
Gordon != A marine sent to investigate the dissapearance of the people on the moons of Mars
Black Mesa != a moon of Mars
An elevator is an elevator. You have them everywhere.
Monsters teleport in because... well... they're monsters from another dimension. That's where monsters often come from. I know that's where I keep my monsters. And when I want my monsters who reside in another dimension to appear, I teleport them in. I guess I could run around really fast until I break the fabric of space time so I could go to the other dimension in which my monsters reside in and bring them back. But, that really takes too long and requires too much effort.
Headcrab zombies != Shotgun Zombies or Pistol Zombies
Marines trying to cover up what happened != Imps
Healthpack distributors on walls... well, there's two places to put them. On the wall or on the floor. Modern gaming tries to lean a little more towards "realism" so on the wall as an emergency first aid type thing makes more sense than in the middle of nowhere on the floor for no reason. And on the cieling is just plain silly.

 

[whiskeychaser]

Why do monsters have to appear out of thin air? I guess thats the one big thing that bothered me when i started playing half life 1 recently. I hated it in doom 3, I just hope it will work in hl 2, if they must use it.

 

[destrukt]

look at the story line.

also, half life is the original, have health pack things on the wall ;D

 

[CrazyHarij]

Every company, be it games or movies, "borrow" ideas from successful creations to partly ensure the success of their own creation.

 

[SubKamran]

for me doom3 got boring very quickly. ive stopped playing it because of the repitition of things. i got about 3/4ths of the way through the game and i cannot be bothered to finish it...... :sniper:

let hope hl2 isnt "wow...this game is awsome" at the start than 5hrs in its like "this AGAIN". i dont think HL2 would be like this but how knows

if nobody was able to steal/borrow/rip off ideas from other game ppl would still be playing doom [as Cybernoid said]

Totally agree with everything you said. Except I was less than 3/4ths of the way through. I'm having waaaaaay more fun playing CS:S (I played an ungodly 2-hours straight on one server today).

 

[staddydaddy]

Escaping a base (doom)

uhh wolfenstien 3d

 

[UKchaos2]

Half-life owes more to doom than Doom 3 does to Half-life.

 

[Styloid]

the story in HL focused more on the government cover-up and the G-man and was presented (no kidding considering the time period) better than the original Doom. Of course nowadays it doesn't matter because, as someone said before, 'going places' can be considered a rip off. People will see what they want to see and say what they want to say about what they like and don't like. HL had (if you just mention one aspect) creatures not from Earth and so did many things since... probably ancient myths and legends.. therefore it must be a rip-off. You can choose to look at nothing else if you want.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

Monster's spawning in a ball of lightning= Spawning monsters through gateways is not a new Idea (Doom 1/2/3, Duke Nukem 3D, HalfLife, Unreal Tournament, Etc). However I'm pretty sure the Green teleporter with green lightning was valves idea. What is the colour of Doom3 teleporter?

Health Pack on Wall= Sure it was Half-Life's, and I think Max Payne was the next game to introduce it (with the painkillers in the medical cupboard)

The big mining elevator that descends forever= Doom 1/2 never had an introductory level, so Half-Life was the first one with Tram ride

Its a good thing that I was not given a question about who first brought out the idea of Zombies in Games

 

[jverne]

ok, really stupid thread!
all of you who think that hl riped from doom and vice versa is a f****** moron!!
its like "ahh...HL2 sux, you have to shoot enemies with a gun, thats totaly riped from doom...Valve sux!" lol
btw, i'm partialy wrong, HL2 has the manipulator gun that can kill enemies! hehe

No offense, but some of you are real morons! this thread was clearly not thought over when started!

 

[A.I.]

I just started playing half life for the first time. I'm about 3 hours in I guess. I can't help but notice all the similarities between this and doom 3. Monsters spawning in a ball of lightning. The big mining elevator that descends forever. The health packs on the wall. My question is, did half life copy things from the original doom? Or did doom3 rip off the original half life?
On a side note, I hope those annoying round balls that screech aren't in half life 2.

For me, it was Half-Life which made me aware of the surrounding enviroment. Before that game there were only rooms and meaningless hall which had to be cleaned up of the bad guys by my trusty shotgun (e.g. Doom and Quake series).

I still remember the first time when I ran the game. Right in the very first seconds of that train ride I already knew that this game is going to be something really different what I have seen up till then. It's not about the story it's about storytelling. And VALVe is a great storyteller.

 

[Insano]

Uncle Gabe knows how to tell a story!

 

[MrBongo]

Okay, for one, games like Half Life and Doom were never "original" in their own right. Doom was actually a product of iD's Return to Castle Wolfenstein- the undisputable first PC shooter ever. But was iD being totally innovative when they made RtCW? Perhaps in the implementation of ideas into a video game, but not in the inventing of the ideas themselves. Games like RtCW were mostly inspired from real world events and ideas that have already been used in books.

Yes, there is such a thing as literature, which, judging by some of the garbled messages on this site, is something that many of you would benefit from by reading.

So, in general, nobody copied anyone. iD and Valve both utiliyzed pre-existing ideas in their games, and its important to remember that a number of these ideas are just common sense. If you're making a creepy game, you're going to want to implement things that will scare people. Does chunks of eaten flesh flying out of vent sound cool/frightening? I think it does, so its no wonder the developers used things like this.

What people need to realize is that these ideas were never new, they were just never used in a game before. And please, don't start challenging this argument by saying "W3ll D00M coped HL in making game!!11!". Half Life was created MANY years after Doom, just like how Doom 3 was finished many years after the release of Half Life. These time gaps have allowed for the technology used to implement these techniques to advance greatly. To say Doom sucks more than Half Life because it didnt have scripted sequences isn't exactly fair when you consider it would have been impossible for developers to do that over 10 years ago...