Who has more sex Atheists or Religious people?

[Eejit]

well, Christianity, As fas as my beliefs go, has the truest revelation of God because of our awareness that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ, other religions are not wholly incorrect as far as I see it, they just have an incomplete revelation.

But why do you believe this religion is truer than the others? Clearly billions of people disagree. What makes your judgement better than theirs? What makes your holy book more accurate than theirs and how do you know?

 

[blackout]

no fact or evidence makes anything truer. this is what I have strongly felt from my own experience.

 

[15357]

well, Christianity, As fas as my beliefs go, has the truest revelation of God because of our awareness that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ, like I said other religions are not wholly incorrect as far as I see it, they just have an incomplete revelation.

But what's the basis for this belief? I mean, there must be a reason why you think other religions are incomplete.

EDIT:

no fact or evidence makes anything truer. this is what I have strongly felt from my own experience.

Well, Ok, but could you specify those experiences?

 

[Skaadi]

There are absolutely no religious people doing that on this forum.

This. I'm a practicing Catholic, but I tend to avoid threads like this altogether. I don't like being harassed about my beliefs, but on the other hand I don't impose my beliefs on other people, either. If someone asks about it, fine, if not I leave the subject alone.

 

[blackout]

Edit: @15357

when you read the Bible with a prayerful mind, it speaks to you, and reaches out to you in unique and wonderful, amazing ways. it's unique in that It contains the most profound spiritual truths. for example you may be thinking deeply on a philosophical subject, or spiritual issue, then when reading the Bible you may find a passage that affirms or discusses in a deep way whatever it was you were thinking about, it's like that very passage was written for you at that moment, it's amazing. I'm sure you'll just say oh, well it's just coincidence, or you're talking yourself into it. but you've never had this experience, when you truly have you know it's real. besides, I've heard others describe the exact same thing. when this happens you no longer become interested in the contradictions and errors and what's wrong with the Bible, you're interested in the truth, and what's right with the Bible.

you should perhaps look into death and out-of-body experience stories. this was my personal favourite, he affirms the Bible's ability to reach out to an open mind:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2094001112814040004#

If you don't want to believe me or the Reverend Howard Storm on this, then that's fine, it's your decision. I can only share my spiritual experience with you and hope and pray it makes some impression.

 

[Jintor]

We may want a seperate thread for this fairly serious religious discussion.

Blackout, so what you're saying is that you found a... I'll describe it as generalised sensation of euphoria that you experienced while reading a religious text that affirmed your belief in Jesus, am I right?

/edit I'll change my assertion to 'monothiestic gods', although it seems to me somewhat as if you are saying 'by the nature of them worshipping only one God, that god must therefore must be an aspect of my god'

 

[The Monkey]

Edit: @15357

when you read the Bible with a prayerful mind, it speaks to you, and reaches out to you in unique and wonderful, amazing ways. it's unique in that It contains the most profound spiritual truths. for example you may be thinking deeply on a philosophical subject, or spiritual issue, then when reading the Bible you may find a passage that affirms or discusses in a deep way whatever it was you were thinking about, it's like that very passage was written for you at that moment, it's amazing. I'm sure you'll just say oh, well it's just coincidence, or you're talking yourself into it. but you've never had this experience, when you truly have you know it's real. besides, I've heard others describe the exact same thing. when this happens you no longer become interested in the contradictions and errors and what's wrong with the Bible, you're interested in the truth, and what's right with the Bible.

You yourself said that you don't interpret the bible literally. So how do you know which parts to believe in and which to don't? If you have read the bible then you know as well as anyone that there are passages there, supposedly the word of God, that no sane person today could ever agree to. And makes the parts you choose to believe in more true than the others?

 

[Eejit]

Euphoric experiences can be triggered by all sorts of things, it's just an odd state of mind. It makes stimuli or ideas you receive in such a state seem more profound in a personal sense, but that doesn't make them any more accurate.

 

[VirusType2]

There is nothing more terrifying than a man of God. You can't trust them to act according to logic and reason. It's like an animal, an intelligent and capable... an extremely dangerous animal.

And that is my input for the thread. Thank you and goodnight.

 

[blackout]

yes jintor that's right.

You yourself said that you don't interpret the bible literally. So how do you know which parts to believe in and which to don't? If you have read the bible then you know as well as anyone that there are passages there, supposedly the word of God, that no sane person today could ever agree to. And makes the parts you choose to believe in more true than the others?

I don't know all of what to believe and to not believe about the Bible, but I do know from being spoken to by the Bible that there are passages that are true. like I said, you no longer become interested in what's wrong with the Bible.

now, I don't want to be a coward who's escaping from a debate that he had a fair hand in starting, but is this really getting us anywhere?

 

[VirusType2]

You're ok bro. You don't owe us anything.

 

[15357]

Well, I understand what you mean, but having had no such experience, I don't really understand. I suppose such experiences aren't meant to be had by everyone. At least, anyway, you've answered my question, unlike many religious people I've asked - people get offended for some reason when I ask that question.

But I would agree that this isn't going to get anywhere. Interesting debate, nonetheless.

 

[blackout]

Well, I understand what you mean, but having had no such experience, I don't really understand. I suppose such experiences aren't meant to be had by everyone. At least, anyway, you've answered my question, unlike many religious people I've asked - people get offended for some reason when I ask that question.

But I would agree that this isn't going to get anywhere. Interesting debate, nonetheless.

yeah, I don't mind people asking rational and mature questions, what I don't like is people bashing religion. I don't mind people saying 'no offence man but I think religion is ridiculous'. what I do mind is people saying stuff like "religion is ****ing retarded".

 

[15357]

Yeah, I mean, I used to say stuff like that, until I realized that political ideologies were essentially the same thing.

Now I just go with, "religion has some irrational material as a basis, and causes conflict between people of different faiths".

 

[Jintor]

now, I don't want to be a coward who's escaping from a debate that he had a fair hand in starting, but is this really getting us anywhere?

Well, internet debating is never really any good at getting anywhere. But I think it's a pretty good medium for understanding each other's points of view.

What really gets my goat about religion is that it simply isn't subject to the same realities that most anything else is; it's protected becase it's religion. That's a memetic thoughtshield, really; it's how the idea survives to propogate. Douglas Adams said it best.

 

[Tyguy]

I don't mean to put a damper on your revelation as you seem like a nice fellow but this is by no means a rarity to hear from a person of faith. Indeed, it's one of the most regurgitated, unfalsifiable and spurious justifications used to defend one's faith. I'm by no means calling you a liar although I'm fairly certain that what you interpreted as a divine interlude was nothing more than the result of human psychology and wishful thinking.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts after you take a look at some of the prominent atheist literature/science.

 

[blackout]

I don't mean to put a damper on your revelation as you seem like a nice fellow but this is by no means a rarity to hear from a person of faith. Indeed, it's one of the most regurgitated, unfalsifiable and spurious justifications used to defend one's faith. I'm by no means calling you a liar although I'm fairly certain that what you interpreted as a divine interlude was nothing more than the result of human psychology and wishful thinking.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts after you take a look at some of the prominent atheist literature/science.

I'm well aware of that, and other religions may well be right. however, I'll go with my own faith experience for now, as it has helped me in many many ways. perhaps I'm misled, but we'll all find out after we die (presumably).

 

[Eejit]

So what do you consider to be the difference between superstition and religion?

 

[Tyguy]

That's fine, but if you don't mind me asking...are you at all willing to do any research on the matter or would you simply rather play it safe and avoid pascals wager?

 

[No Limit]

Blackout, you talk about these personal revolations you had but you don't really go in to any detail. I had quite the experiance on shrooms long long ago. I was at my friends house laying face down tripping balls and I started traveling through a type of light tunnel when I emerged outside of my body, I was face down, but I could see the room around me. All this was obviously the drugs ****ing with me but I have no problem describing that experiance in great detail. So you should be able to describe yours.

You say the bible speaks to you. What exactly does it tell you? Is it a voice? Some kind of revelation (what revelation?). A few pages ago you didn't seem to understand basic concepts in the bible, now you are saying you read it and it actually speaks to you. How often do you read the bible? When was the last time you read the entire thing?

Why would a book with such power to speak to you make assertions over and over again that are simply incorrect? Why would God tell you the earth is flat when we know that is not the case?

Futhermore as has been pointed out to you people in every religion have said what you are saying about their faith. You have not done a good job of explaining why that is. You said personal experiances but you are still yet to define those experiances in any kind of detail.

 

[No Limit]

There are ideas that can be scientifically disproven. Whether a god exists and whether or not he wants you to explode can't. Maybe if you say '****ing retarded' just one more time, it'll magically mean something.

IT IS ****ING RETARDED. Again, we are talking about people that think if they blow themselves up God will reward them with 72 virgins. It's ****ing retarded. Yet you keep insiting that it's actually possible that this is true because we can't prove otherwise. There are a lot of things you can't prove otherwise but those things a lot of the time are ****ing retarded. Yet for some reason you will point to one thing that has absolutely no evidance behind it and say well that's a lot more likely than that other thing that has absolutely no evidance behind it.

How do you not understand this point?

Every person who calls them self Christian is absolutely exactly the same and believes everything the bible says. Who are you kidding?

Never said anything like that. What I said is they believe in the bible. Some of them will decide certain sections they won't believe but in the end most of what they believe is based on the bible. And this bible is filled with falsehoods and they know that. So why would you live your life according to something that you know has many falsehoods?

I think your problem is you seem to be unable to disconnect the idea of a person and a religion. If someone believes in Christian ideas they don't have to accept every little thing in the bible or the Catholic big book o' rules.
"There are intelligent people who pick and choose what they believe from the bible and other sources."
"Yeah, but do they call themselves Christian? Well Christianity is based off of the bible so like who is it that gets to pick out whatever they want from it and believe in that?"
We are. We're people. We have different views, different beliefs. There is not a bone in my body that cares about god but I'd be kidding myself if I thought there weren't some aspects of my life built around Christian principles. He didn't say the flat earth wasn't meant to be taken seriously. He said that they don't take it seriously. Because people can't be pigeonholed into your easily definable 'Christian' category. And I don't know what has you on the proving a negative thing? Sorry, you can't prove they're wrong and you can't prove you're right (weirdly, it works the other way too, perhaps a connection?). Get over it.

But the only reason he says he doesn't take the idea of the earth being flat seriously is because we can go in to outerspace and take a picture of the ****ing planet. Had he been alive a thousand years ago that would be a part he would believe. This is the point. The bible says something. People live their lives by it. A science and society evolves it's clear that more and more of it is bullshit. We are at a point in time where we know most of it is bullshit. Yet these people still hang on to it. Why?

This just in: Morality isn't a magical thing you get inoculated with when you're born. Without your parents, you'd have different morals. Without Christianity, many people would have different morals. No one is saying morals are dependent on religion or they have some sort of mystical copyright on it. Frankly, I don't think you have much of a point. Congratulations, you've graduated from "All Christians are the same" to "All religious people are the same." That's quite an absurd generalization, you should be very proud.

Bull ****ing shit. You don't need christianity to have morals.

And again, I never said all christians are the same (thats called a strawman) but the point is they all believe in the bible in some shape. Otherwise they would be christians. And the bible says the earth is flat along with countless other things that no sane person living today would believe.

 

[No Limit]

I didn't say any of that, actually, I said that it was written in a time where they believed it was true and has since been disproven. I'm not sure what you are trying to say with the second sentence, are you thinking of Sheepo?

The point is the bible is supposed to be infalible. No matter how moderate or how extreme of a christian you are in the end your religion is based around this book. Without it you wouldn't be a christian. Yet the entire book is filled with bullshit that no sane person could believe. So why in the world would you base your world view on such a book even if you are picking and choosing what you will believe?

All I am saying is this: if you thought that, you wouldn't say "religion is retarded." What you would say is that extremist Christians that wish to deny basic human rights are retarded, which is totally true.

Different levels of extremists and moderates have different levels of how ****ing retarded their beliefs are. But in the end they are still ****ing retarded because they are based on a book that no sane person could take seriously because it is filled with countless errors yet it is supposed to be the word of God.

There exist truculent, violent teachings in the Bible as you say. I'm not religious, so I can't defend on a specific level. Still, I know that the Bible, like other religious texts, also includes legitimate philosophies and morality. I have heard very powerful sermons and I understand that for some people, religion is a form of community and a code to base their personal beliefs and morals. Everyone learns right from wrong from someone in their community; some people look to religion. They might not literally interpret tales about sky wizards and minotaurs, but instead derive morals from metaphors.

What legitimate philosophies? That you shouldn't kill and rape? That you should treat people good? You need the bible to tell you that? Or is it the part that says you should hate homosexuals? Or the part that says you shouldn't eat shell fish and slavery is perfectly ok?

Out all those you pick the ones that make sense and then ignore the ones you don't think make sense. So why do you need the ****ing book in the first place? In the end you are deciding how you will live your life yourself ignoring much of the book anyway.

What are these supposed arguments by atheists which I would not understand, and why didn't you mention them? So far I have seen people state two reasons that all religion is stupid:
-Scientific Inaccuracies (The Earth is flat)
-Truculent teachings (Murder gay people)

My point from the beginning is that this only represents some, awful or incorrect, aspects of religion. There exist people who derive personal enlightenment through religion while rejecting the malicious and ignorant aspects associated with it. Therefore, saying religion is retarded is intolerant and bigoted.

No, it represents the bible which is the basis of their religion. If your religion is based on a book that can't be taken seriously why do these people take it seriously skimming over the parts they don't like while insisting the parts they do like must be true. And no it's not intolerant or bigoted. Do you consider people that call the tea party ****ing retarded bigoted? No? Why not?

Anyway this is a lot of writing for the morning, I rushed through it. Im gonna get some work done now.

 

[Tyguy]

I think No Limit might be an atheist.

 

[No Limit]

Nah, I'm a rag head.

 

[15357]

Different levels of extremists and moderates have different levels of how ****ing retarded their beliefs are. But in the end they are still ****ing retarded because they are based on a book that no sane person could take seriously because it is filled with countless errors yet it is supposed to be the word of God.

Maybe God is retarded, No Limit. Think about that.

 

[No Limit]

You just blew my mind numbers.

 

[CptStern]

yeah might be a little late but.

A) yes you've proved your point and I've already said yes.

B) WTF?? I seriously cannot understand your logic. I think your just so obsessively anti-religious (how sad) that you'll cobble any random words together and try and make it make sense to hack away at religion.

but you havent proved me wrong. my logic is pretty sound; if homosexuality is natural (as proved by the fact that it's present in the animal world) then it cant be a sin; the only reason it is a sin is bigotry/fear/hate because there is no logical reason to believe it's a sin (doesnt go against god's will because god created homosexuality)



ok lets discuss sentiments like:

RELIGION IS RETARDED!!!!

ok offensive language aside it's really not inaccurate. hold on a sec you're still stuck on the word "retarded", try not to associate someone with limited mental abilities. it's a crude discriptor but somewhat accurate because retarded means to be left behind; science/modernity has left religion behind. anyways the basis behind someone saying that religion is retarded is because people who do believe do so outside of logic; if there is no proof whatsoever for the existance of god (and there isnt) then believing in something that is completely nonexistant in any measureable extent is illogical. if someone believed that the world is flat we might ridicule them because they still believe despite evidence to the contrary


and for the record yes I'm against religion ..so long as it interfere's with the lives of others. I have no problem with individual religious beliefs, my parents are catholic, however I draw the line at the organisation specifically when they mount campaigns to push their pov on the rest of us (same sex marriage, abortion, creationism etc etc etc). in that I truely believe that religion is an albatross around the neck of society. however you're entitled to believe whatever the hell it is you want to believe just dont expect to get a free pass because of those beliefs; they're sacred to no one but those that subscribe to them

 

[blackout]

So what do you consider to be the difference between superstition and religion?

superstition is irrational

but you havent proved me wrong. my logic is pretty sound; if homosexuality is natural (as proved by the fact that it's present in the animal world) then it cant be a sin; the only reason it is a sin is bigotry/fear/hate because there is no logical reason to believe it's a sin (doesnt go against god's will because god created homosexuality)

the fact that homosexuality occurs in animals doesn't make it natural, or at least it doesn't make it part of God's original plan, where is your basis for saying God is the author of Homosexuality?

Leviticus 18:22- "thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind for it is an abomination"
Romans 1:26- "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones."

does this sound like the word of a God who tolerates and even invented homosexuality?

ok lets discuss sentiments like:

RELIGION IS RETARDED!!!!

ok offensive language aside it's really not inaccurate. hold on a sec you're still stuck on the word "retarded", try not to associate someone with limited mental abilities. it's a crude discriptor but somewhat accurate because retarded means to be left behind; science/modernity has left religion behind. anyways the basis behind someone saying that religion is retarded is because people who do believe do so outside of logic; if there is no proof whatsoever for the existance of god (and there isnt) then believing in something that is completely nonexistant in any measureable extent is illogical. if someone believed that the world is flat we might ridicule them because they still believe despite evidence to the contrary

it's not illogical or irrational to suggest that this amazing universe and all the energy and information and life within it came from an intelligent & sentient source.

and for the record yes I'm against religion ..so long as it interfere's with the lives of others. I have no problem with individual religious beliefs, my parents are catholic, however I draw the line at the organisation specifically when they mount campaigns to push their pov on the rest of us (same sex marriage, abortion, creationism etc etc etc). in that I truely believe that religion is an albatross around the neck of society. however you're entitled to believe whatever the hell it is you want to believe just dont expect to get a free pass because of those beliefs; they're sacred to no one but those that subscribe to them

elaborate on how I've been intefering with anyone else's lives and forcing my beliefs on others aside from this discussion and I will ceasefire. I'm sorry if that's the way it's been. What I don't like is the atheist attacking religion, however I don't mind the civil sharing of one another's beliefs, I think it's healthy.

and for the record I do believe in the separation of church and state.

 

[Eejit]

superstition is irrational

Elaborate. How is it more irrational than religion?

the fact that homosexuality occurs in animals doesn't make it natural, or at least it doesn't make it part of God's original plan:

Leviticus 18:22- "thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind for it is an abomination"
Romans 1:26- "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones."

does this sound like the word of a God who tolerates and even invented homosexuality

No it doesn't sound like the word of a God, you're right. It sounds like the words of intolerant men who lived thousands of years ago.

The bible is full of that kind of nonsense.

Leviticus 11:9-12
These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

So not only is sodomy an abomination according to Leviticus, so is eating shellfish.
Tell me, have you ever enjoyed a nice clam chowder?

 

[Krynn72]

superstition is irrational

Religion is based entirely on faith though. And faith is an irrational construct, believing in something that has no evidence of its existence. Religion is irrational as well.

 

[blackout]

Elaborate. How is it more irrational than religion?

what I said before, it's in no way irrational or illogical to believe that the beautiful universe we live in and all the energy, life, and information in it come from a conscious intelligent source. you may not believe it, that's fine. But how can one say that's irrational? a superstition, according to wikipedia is:Superstition is a credulous belief or notion, not based on reason, knowledge, or experience .
one's religion is greatly influenced by one's personal experience

No it doesn't sound like the word of a God, you're right. It sounds like the words of intolerant men who lived thousands of years ago.

The bible is full of that kind of nonsense.

how would you know what the word of a God sounds like (I assume you're an atheist?)

So not only is sodomy an abomination according to Leviticus, so is eating shellfish.
Tell me, have you ever enjoyed a nice clam chowder?

people like you who use this argument know nothing about the Bible, God commanded the OT Jews not to eat shellfish because it easily went off in the hot environment (fact), homosexuality is repeated to be a sin in the NT. besides I think it should be common sense (no offence intended).

besides, how do you know there's no evidence for God?

 

[No Limit]

besides, how do you know there's no evidence for God?

Because there isn't.

You said earlier you have experiances when reading the bible which is why you know it's real. Can you describe those?

 

[Eejit]

Elaborate. How is it more irrational than religion?

what I said before, it's in no way irrational or illogical to believe that the beautiful universe we live in and all the energy, life, and information in it come from a conscious intelligent source. you may not believe it, that's fine. But how can one say that's irrational? a superstition, according to wikipedia is:Superstition is a credulous belief or notion, not based on reason, knowledge, or experience .
one's religion is greatly influenced by one's personal experience

Indeed it is irrational. If all life, information and energy in the universe originates from God, from whence does It originate? You're believing in a Final Cause based on... a hunch.
Superstitions can equally be influenced by one's personal experience. In fact, that's often how they originated.

No it doesn't sound like the word of a God, you're right. It sounds like the words of intolerant men who lived thousands of years ago.

The bible is full of that kind of nonsense.

how would you know what the word of a God sounds like (I assume you're an atheist?)

One would not expect a supreme being to be so capricious. Or do you believe God to be petty?

So not only is sodomy an abomination according to Leviticus, so is eating shellfish.
Tell me, have you ever enjoyed a nice clam chowder?

people like you who use this argument know nothing about the Bible, God commanded the OT Jews not to eat shellfish because it easily went off in the hot environment (fact), homosexuality is repeated to be a sin in the NT. besides I think it should be common sense (no offence intended).

besides, how do you know there's no evidence for God?

Or perhaps people wrote down a law saying not to eat shellfish because they went off easily in the hot environment. And a law saying that homosexuality is equally as bad due to it spreading STIs maybe?
On the other hand perhaps those ancient Jewish men wrote the law based on their latent homophobia such as you exhibit when you say it's common sense that sodomy is sinful.

How do you know there's no evidence for flying unicorns?

 

[Sheepo]

IT IS ****ING RETARDED. Again, we are talking about people that think if they blow themselves up God will reward them with 72 virgins. It's ****ing retarded. Yet you keep insiting that it's actually possible that this is true because we can't prove otherwise. There are a lot of things you can't prove otherwise but those things a lot of the time are ****ing retarded. Yet for some reason you will point to one thing that has absolutely no evidance behind it and say well that's a lot more likely than that other thing that has absolutely no evidance behind it.

How do you not understand this point?

I don't think you understand my point: It doesn't even ****ing matter. If there was magical man in the sky who wanted me to blow up I would not give a shit. I don't think it's likely. I don't think any of the options presented to me are very likely, and I certainly won't ever know unless I end up in Hades I guess. And when did I say any option is more likely than the other?

Never said anything like that. What I said is they believe in the bible. Some of them will decide certain sections they won't believe but in the end most of what they believe is based on the bible. And this bible is filled with falsehoods and they know that. So why would you live your life according to something that you know has many falsehoods?

Okay, I'm not sure what you don't understand here. If I take a book, say a history book. It was written a long time ago and a lot of its claims are wrong and even a whole bunch of its stories are made up. I can appreciate some its stories and their messages. I can allow some of its ideas to shape how I think and live, while completely disregarding the rest of it. I don't see why you can't just think of the bible as any other book, where you can pick up the ideas you like and leave the others, without the factual inaccuracy of the parts you don't give a shit about somehow affecting it. Have you ever read a collection of short stories? Was every single one of them good? If not, did you disregard absolutely all the stories including the ones you liked because every single one of them wasn't good?

But the only reason he says he doesn't take the idea of the earth being flat seriously is because we can go in to outerspace and take a picture of the ****ing planet. Had he been alive a thousand years ago that would be a part he would believe. This is the point. The bible says something. People live their lives by it. A science and society evolves it's clear that more and more of it is bullshit. We are at a point in time where we know most of it is bullshit. Yet these people still hang on to it. Why?

Once again the concept you can't seem to grasp is that generally people are perfectly capable of reading, enjoying, and taking values from the bible while still being able to use their goddamn brain. "Oh no, I've absorbed some wisdom from a book, but that book also says things which science has definitively proven incorrect. THIS BOOK IS EITHER RIGHT OR WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING, WHAT CAN I BELIEVE?"

Bull ****ing shit. You don't need christianity to have morals.

Really? Are you even bothering to read what I say?

No one is saying morals are dependent on religion or they have some sort of mystical copyright on it.

Anyway

And again, I never said all christians are the same (thats called a strawman) but the point is they all believe in the bible in some shape. Otherwise they would be christians. And the bible says the earth is flat along with countless other things that no sane person living today would believe.

I'm just restating everything over and over in this post, but whatever.

a) I'm not saying all Christians are the same
b) But they all believe in the bible to some degree
c) Believing in the bible to some degree is what makes people Christians
d) THE BIBLE SAYS DUMB STUFF AND CHRISTIANS BELIEVE SOME OF THE STUFF IN IT THEREFORE THEY BELIEVE IN THE DUMB STUFF AUTOMATICALLY. THE BIBLE IS ONE IDEA AND YOU CAN EITHER BELIEVE IN ALL OF IT OR NONE OF IT. MY LOGIC IS FLAWLESS.

 

[blackout]

Because there isn't.

You said earlier you have experiances when reading the bible which is why you know it's real. Can you describe those?

Yes, yes I can.

2nd Peter 3:9-
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance"
Ever heard of Calvinists ()? the WBC are an example. they have a completely unbiblical doctrine of 'predestination' which says that God, for know reason in particular, has predetermined whether each individual ever born would go to Heaven or hell following death before they were even created, and that we have no control over our own salvation.
this would imply that God wants people to go to hell. then I found 2nd Peter 3:9 at exactly the right time, and saw how ridiculous calivinism is. I don't mind them beliving wha they want to believe, I have a problem with them calling their silly ideas a form of Christianity.

another one:

1st Timothy 4:1-3:
"Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the last times some will turn away from the faith by paying attention to deceitful spirits and demonic instructions
through the hypocrisy of liars with branded consciences.
They forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth."

clearly this shows that the doctrine of mandatory celibacy for Catholic priests (which also has no basis in the scripture, the opposite in fact:
2nd timothy 3:2-
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach)
is a falsehood. (sorry Catholics, I lean more towards you than Calvinists, but I dislike your views on celibacy)

I found both of these just at the right time when looking for answers in the Bible to questions I've had. I'm sure it's difficult to understand if you haven't had these experiences so I'm sure this is all invalid in your eyes. but It's my experience.

besides the Bible says that this happens via the holy spirit, hang on, I can't find the specific passage though.

 

[No Limit]

But how is that an experiance? You are simply reading something and interpreting it. Nothing magical or spiritual about that. Originally you made it seem like the bible was speaking to you.

 

[CptStern]

the fact that homosexuality occurs in animals doesn't make it natural, or at least it doesn't make it part of God's original plan, where is your basis for saying God is the author of Homosexuality?

well animals didnt get together and decide some of them should engage in homosexual behaviour. and they arent acting out on unnatural impluses because animals are purely instinctual. so sometyhing that is instinctual is natural and NOT unnatural

Leviticus 18:22- "thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind for it is an abomination"

ya well that same book says eating shellfish is "an abomination" and not as you suggest (it'll be spoiled by heat) ..it uses the same word for homosexuals: "abomination". so I dont see how you can accept one without the other. and quoting from scripture is not proof of god's intent. observable evidence is much more telling of god's design; therefore since homosexuality is NOT unnatural therefore it's not a sin

Romans 1:26- "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones."

you should have quoted the next passage as well:

Roman's 1:27: "And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

god seems to be saying that the natural use for women is as objects of sex. we all know they're more than just the sum of their parts right? .....right? how the hell is it that I'm far more enlightened than god? I'm just a mortal whereas god is well ..god, how can he be so stupid if he's god? I mean you'd have to be pretty dumb to dismiss women as merely as objects of sex

also if you believe homosexuals are unnatural because of that passage then you simply must follow suit with what the same passage says you should do with gays and their supporters:

"1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them"

so they should be put to death?

does this sound like the word of a God who tolerates and even invented homosexuality?

so animals just came up with homosexuality on their own? and man just so happened to witness this and thought to themselves "hey that looks like fun!"

you simply cannot avoid this. homosexuality is too present in the animal world to dismiss it as "unnatural". therefore the whole argument against homosexuality from a christian standpoint falls apart like a deck of cards during an earthquake

and do you really truely believe god to be crippled by human frailities like intolerance, fear and hate? commanding people to be put to death for being true to themselves doesnt sound like an omnipotent being. it sounds more like very human sentiment: fear/hate/intolerence. if this is your god then he's a shitty god

it's not illogical or irrational to suggest that this amazing universe and all the energy and information and life within it came from an intelligent & sentient source.

it's completely irrational as there is absolutely basis for saying that. I could easily say MONKEY FISH BUTTERCUP as an explanation for the origins of the universe and that's just as valid as saying "a supreme being did it"

elaborate on how I've been intefering with anyone else's lives and forcing my beliefs on others aside from this discussion and I will ceasefire.

you = religion, not you. and yes religion does try to impose their will on society; same sex marriage, abortion etc etc etc

I'm sorry if that's the way it's been. What I don't like is the atheist attacking religion, however I don't mind the civil sharing of one another's beliefs, I think it's healthy.

religious people attack non belief just as vehemently. and what's worse is that they're inappropriately smarmy about it. this is the problem with debating politics and ideas; it's not polite discourse

 

[flamingdts]

Here is an interesting scenario.

Let's say God does exist, and the bible was written according to his will. What exactly stops Satan or some evil person from re-writing this bible in order for humanity to follow the wrong teachings and fall straight down to hell?

I mean the bible claims these acts of sins are caused by Satan's influence right? So why is it not possible for Satan to have influenced a person of power to re-write the bible to preach out the wrong teachings (intolerance of homosexuality, viewing woman as objects of sex) so that eventually all who followed the bible will be sent to hell?

 

[No Limit]

Sheepo, is thinking that you will get 72 virgins if you blow your self up retarded or not?

 

[Sheepo]

Probably. I'd say believing in or completely doubting any idea without evidence (IE: having faith) sounds retarded to me. Not that I typically care. It is most certainly ****ed up for the people who do that and for any hypothetical being that asks people for it. As long as your religious views don't result in you being an asshole I'm pretty apathetic towards the situation.