perrkele
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I don't understand why such a lot of people have so much hatred towards Valve. I understand that some people come here only to do some trolling and pissing off of the regulars, but still it makes me wonder. I don't consider myself a fanboy, but I do respect Valve's achievements and love most of their games.
Yes, Valve's PR is a bit... well really, can you even call it PR? I suppose it's just their style, they answer a lot of emails from modders/fans and use email themselves to inform the press etc. Does this make them a bad game company. Maybe. Does this affect the quality of their games? No.
Jet Jaguar mentioned that his bitterness towards Valve is partly due to their handling of TF2. Yes, when Valve "forgot" the game I was puzzled as well. But as they finally told us their reasons for silence, I totally understood them. I mean, they couldn't really say that "yeah, we're porting the TF2 to this new engine thingie we've been secretly developing for HL2 a few years now", could they? Source/HL2 were to surprise us.
I'm trying to be as objective as possible, but still I see few reasons to "hate" Valve. Yes, their changes to certain mods have caused some problems. Yes, steam is still unstable (but I believe it has a lot of potential). Yes, their PR sucks (in a way).
But still, Valve's effect on the FPS genre (and gaming in general) is undeniable. They have been supporting their "age old" games while developing a completely new engine and a triple-A title. This is something I admit I really admire. Yes, I know they are in it for the money, and their purpose is to keep us gamers happy, so that we'll buy their next games as well. It's something that benefits both Valve and us, the gamers.
Yes, Valve's PR is a bit... well really, can you even call it PR? I suppose it's just their style, they answer a lot of emails from modders/fans and use email themselves to inform the press etc. Does this make them a bad game company. Maybe. Does this affect the quality of their games? No.
Jet Jaguar mentioned that his bitterness towards Valve is partly due to their handling of TF2. Yes, when Valve "forgot" the game I was puzzled as well. But as they finally told us their reasons for silence, I totally understood them. I mean, they couldn't really say that "yeah, we're porting the TF2 to this new engine thingie we've been secretly developing for HL2 a few years now", could they? Source/HL2 were to surprise us.
I'm trying to be as objective as possible, but still I see few reasons to "hate" Valve. Yes, their changes to certain mods have caused some problems. Yes, steam is still unstable (but I believe it has a lot of potential). Yes, their PR sucks (in a way).
But still, Valve's effect on the FPS genre (and gaming in general) is undeniable. They have been supporting their "age old" games while developing a completely new engine and a triple-A title. This is something I admit I really admire. Yes, I know they are in it for the money, and their purpose is to keep us gamers happy, so that we'll buy their next games as well. It's something that benefits both Valve and us, the gamers.
Brian Damage
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Hmmm...
What does VALVe owe us? That idea seems to have cropped up a lot recently. My answer is:
Product support. Besides that? Zip. Nada. Nothing.
Well... friendship'd be nice...
Sorry, I'm up really late over here.:E
Seeya.
What does VALVe owe us? That idea seems to have cropped up a lot recently. My answer is:
Product support. Besides that? Zip. Nada. Nothing.
Well... friendship'd be nice...
Sorry, I'm up really late over here.:E
Seeya.
jet jaguar
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I appreciate the level-headed response. Regarding TF2, if Valve just said something to the effect of 'We are unhappy with the latest builds of TF2 and are putting it back on the drawing board until we're satisfied we have a game worth releasing. Also, due to feature leaks we will have to limit any new info on TF2 for the time being. Sorry.', then I don't think you'd see as much bitterness and distrust towards Valve. But to just shut the fans out for 2 years without so much as even a vague explanation just irked me. The DNF board at 3DR would be far more mean-spirited if 3DR used the same tactics, however George Broussard(head guy at 3DR) has regularly provided feedback with the fans at the site and assured them that developement continues. This has led to a dissappointed, but loyal group of DNF fans that defend the site from trolls like me. Valve may have it's defenders but it's clear that even with the best fps ever made, they have done something to earn the wrath of an awful lot of haters as well. They would be wise to address that problem...not ignore it or pretend it isn't there.
T
theneb
Guest
Nearly every major games company now buy in engines, quite simply it's a hella lot easier to. E.g Many user renderware (.com).
They are WHAT?!?! Quake 1: first real 3d engine for FPS, Quake 2: larger map, true color support, great special effects (for that time), built-in 3d support, Quake 3: First time a game used curved surfaces, still up-to-date (look at Call of Duty), fantastic engine. I am not an ID fanboy, but they have pushed technology like no other company, every time a new ID game came out you had to buy a new PC.
ImJacksAmygdala
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Personally I think there is some truth to this thread.
A one hit wonder doesn't make a great company now does it? Sure it indicates talant and there is no doubt that HL was a great game, but how sure are we that they can do it twice?
My point is that Valve is still unproven and other comapnies have higher turnout of quality games. I like that they took their time for a next gen source engine development for DX9.0, but they need to pick up the pace and release HL2, TF2, and CS2 for the source engine to truly prove themselves as a great comapny...
AC/DC isn't a great band from just one song...
A one hit wonder doesn't make a great company now does it? Sure it indicates talant and there is no doubt that HL was a great game, but how sure are we that they can do it twice?
My point is that Valve is still unproven and other comapnies have higher turnout of quality games. I like that they took their time for a next gen source engine development for DX9.0, but they need to pick up the pace and release HL2, TF2, and CS2 for the source engine to truly prove themselves as a great comapny...
AC/DC isn't a great band from just one song...
No, they aren't in comparison and the underlying principals are exactly the same, just with bit's added on. Beizer patches aren't that difficult, plus I've written my own Quake3 map reader.
From Raycasting to BSP to PVS to Portals is a significant change, all Quakes use PVS.
Originally posted by Gamera
No, they aren't in comparison and the underlying principals are exactly the same, just with bit's added on. I've written my own Quake3 map reader.
From Raycasting to BSP to PVS to Portals is a significant change, all Quakes use PVS.
So let me get this straight, you say Quake 3 compared to Quake 2 is slighty a bit different :dozey:
"This document covers version 38 of the BSP file format which is the version used by Quake 2. This is also the version of the BSP file format used by Kingpin (which was created using the Quake 2 engine) and therefore all of the information contained is relevant to those files as well. While Quake 1 and Quake 3: Arena use similar BSP formats the formats are not directly compatible. However, because of the similarity in the structure and techniques, this document should be of some use to anyone interested in these formats as well. " -
http://www.flipcode.com/tutorials/tut_q2levels.shtml
Plenty of further reading too. I am looking at the whole thing, all Quakes are the same across a very low and broad level.
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Where to begin...?
TF2 I guess. Does anyone know the reason why TF2 was silent for years? Because Valve wanted to keep the fact that they were now developing it on their own engine, the Source engine; which was going to be the new engine for HL2; quiet. I think that's perfectly reasonable and understandable. I mean, if we'd have found out in 1999 that HL2 was in the making, along with TF2 on a kick ass new engine can you imagine what this forum would be like. Imagine all the intense rumour, speculation, tension and delays we'd have faced now. This place would be the worst place on the internet. Instead what Valve did was keep all knowledge of TF2's, HL2's and Source's existence silent. Lessening the stress on themselves and the community. Whether or not they did this for their own reasons of eventually being able to spring the surprise on to us is kinda irrelevant because at the end of the day they've done the right thing in my mind, and probably a lot of others in this community.
Steam.
I've been a supporter of Steam since Steam Beta 2.0. I can see it's features, advantages and benefits and I like it. It delivers content so that if I need to reformat my system, or my HDD gets otherwise wiped then at the end of the day all I need to do is reinstall HL, download a 500kb client installation file and leave my download running over night for just one, complete installation of HL and the mods. I no longer have to reformat, reinstall HL, download patch A, B, patch B-D, patch D-G and then the same for the other MODs directly supported by Valve.
Yes, the recent release of Steam 1.0 was very very hectic, and absolutely horrible to use while the traffic on the servers was so busy, but it will eventually be fixed so there's 10mbps of bandwidth or more. They'll eventually do what they need to.
In the case of Steam needing an internet connection for offline SP and LAN games I received this e-mail from Gabe Newell back in September 12th when I asked him if Steam will need an internet connection for offline play:
"No, it won't.
There will be a brief transition (like two weeks) when it is necessary, but
then it will go away. It's a temporary issue."
Obviously it's taking a little bit longer at the moment. I've heard Valve are having some sort of problem at the moment (anyone know what that might be?) so I don't blame them for taking their time with that.
And yes, yes, it's true that Valve have only ever had one hit game that's fully their own, but in many other ways they've made hundreds. If it wasn't for them and their support we wouldn't have CS, TFC, DOD, NS, A****ingBC, XYZ or MNOP. If it wasn't for them we wouldn't be sitting here typing messages to each other on our computers (bastards).
I haven't even started on HL2 yet, but it some ways I don't feel as though I need to. HL2 will be brilliant. Anyone can see that. Yes, there's a lot of things and technology that has spawned from HL1; but it's all their own work. It's their baby and it's taken five years to get this far, and all people can do is come out with stuff like "it's all just a load of scripts". It's a lot more than that, and once we've played it, we'll understand. Whether it takes one month to arrive, or another 6, Valve deserve our support through the hard time they're having, and for all they've done for us so far. I'm behind them all the way. Are you?
TF2 I guess. Does anyone know the reason why TF2 was silent for years? Because Valve wanted to keep the fact that they were now developing it on their own engine, the Source engine; which was going to be the new engine for HL2; quiet. I think that's perfectly reasonable and understandable. I mean, if we'd have found out in 1999 that HL2 was in the making, along with TF2 on a kick ass new engine can you imagine what this forum would be like. Imagine all the intense rumour, speculation, tension and delays we'd have faced now. This place would be the worst place on the internet. Instead what Valve did was keep all knowledge of TF2's, HL2's and Source's existence silent. Lessening the stress on themselves and the community. Whether or not they did this for their own reasons of eventually being able to spring the surprise on to us is kinda irrelevant because at the end of the day they've done the right thing in my mind, and probably a lot of others in this community.
Steam.
I've been a supporter of Steam since Steam Beta 2.0. I can see it's features, advantages and benefits and I like it. It delivers content so that if I need to reformat my system, or my HDD gets otherwise wiped then at the end of the day all I need to do is reinstall HL, download a 500kb client installation file and leave my download running over night for just one, complete installation of HL and the mods. I no longer have to reformat, reinstall HL, download patch A, B, patch B-D, patch D-G and then the same for the other MODs directly supported by Valve.
Yes, the recent release of Steam 1.0 was very very hectic, and absolutely horrible to use while the traffic on the servers was so busy, but it will eventually be fixed so there's 10mbps of bandwidth or more. They'll eventually do what they need to.
In the case of Steam needing an internet connection for offline SP and LAN games I received this e-mail from Gabe Newell back in September 12th when I asked him if Steam will need an internet connection for offline play:
"No, it won't.
There will be a brief transition (like two weeks) when it is necessary, but
then it will go away. It's a temporary issue."
Obviously it's taking a little bit longer at the moment. I've heard Valve are having some sort of problem at the moment (anyone know what that might be?
) so I don't blame them for taking their time with that.And yes, yes, it's true that Valve have only ever had one hit game that's fully their own, but in many other ways they've made hundreds. If it wasn't for them and their support we wouldn't have CS, TFC, DOD, NS, A****ingBC, XYZ or MNOP. If it wasn't for them we wouldn't be sitting here typing messages to each other on our computers (bastards
).I haven't even started on HL2 yet, but it some ways I don't feel as though I need to. HL2 will be brilliant. Anyone can see that. Yes, there's a lot of things and technology that has spawned from HL1; but it's all their own work. It's their baby and it's taken five years to get this far, and all people can do is come out with stuff like "it's all just a load of scripts". It's a lot more than that, and once we've played it, we'll understand. Whether it takes one month to arrive, or another 6, Valve deserve our support through the hard time they're having, and for all they've done for us so far. I'm behind them all the way. Are you?
ImJacksAmygdala
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Originally posted by FriScho
No, but interesting fantasies you have
Interesting fantasies you have... I can't read lips what is she saying in your avatar? You should make one with an O face... =O
carloschingarlo
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[I am a bad boy for talking about the beta]
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