Who's ready for the new mythbusters?

[xcellerate]

Where they put a plane on a conveyor belt? What do you guys think will happen?

Here's an example off youtube, skip to about the 3min mark for the actual runs.
[youtube]4owlyCOzDiE[/youtube]

 

[Raziaar]

Oh **** yeah, they're actually going to test that? Awesome.

Of course it will take off.

 

[Tyguy]

i dont get it, without air resistance, how can it take off


or is this not about gaining height

 

[noisebleed]

i watched the movie and i wanted my hours back... didn't find it funny nor entertaining at all...

 

[giant384]

sweet i cant wait until tommorow. thats going to be a kickass episode.

how did the myth even start? it started awhile ago and has just cascaded all over the internet into a discussion.

irony anyone?

 

[Tyguy]

what myth

 

[Direwolf]

Okay, clearly I'm missing something here. Is the plane moving against, or with the treadmill? And why would rolling really fast on a treadmill, but staying still relative to everything else, cause the thing to take off? No air movement=no flight.

 

[Tyguy]

whats the myth

 

[Cavalry]

I CAN'T F*CKING WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!



(btw: Smash Lab sucks)

 

[Raziaar]

Yeah... smash lab is retarded.

 

[Dan]

Anyone who doesn't understand the concept is a moron. Of course it can take off. It has been proven over and over and over a million times.

 

[Stigmata]

It won't take off.

If it does take off, I'm going to write "I DO NOT UNDERSTAND PHYSICS" in giant black permanent marker on my forehead.

Seriously.

[edit] Pics will be taken.

 

[Krynn72]

i dont get it, without air resistance, how can it take off


or is this not about gaining height

There will be resistance because its still going to go forward on the conveyor belt.

 

[Cavalry]

It won't take off.

If it does take off, I'm going to write "I DO NOT UNDERSTAND PHYSICS" in giant black permanent marker on my forehead.

Seriously.

Pictures or you didn't

(when the time comes)

 

[Dan]

It won't take off.

If it does take off, I'm going to write "I DO NOT UNDERSTAND PHYSICS" in giant black permanent marker on my forehead.

Seriously.

[edit] Pics will be taken.

Have you actually not followed this debate before? Everyone and their uncle has proven it already. The whole point of free spinning wheels is that they don't transfer any lateral force except for a bit of rolling friction (which increases with speed despite what the video would claim). Because a plane is driven by propellers, and not wheels, it can go as fast as it wants on a treadmill, even fast enough to take off. The reason that this example probably won't work is that a treadmill is too short of a runway to build up speed on.

 

[PvtRyan]

Look, it's really simple:
A plan produces it's forward motion through its propeller / jet engine, not through its wheels. Once the thrust of the plane engine overcomes the friction of the wheels on the conveyor belt (not high) the presence or absence of the wheels is completely irrelevant. The only way the plane could not take off if somehow the force of the engine was applied to the wheels (a plane car? Awesome!) instead of the propellor / jet engine.

 

[giant384]

There will be resistance because its still going to go forward on the conveyor belt.

i would figure the propeller would push air on to the wings to create lift. lift isnt caused by how fast the plane is rolling its caused by air resistance against the wing.

 

[Stigmata]

Okay, let me be more specific.

While a plane can take off on a treadmill or conveyor belt that is moving against it, it will not take off if the plane is moving on the treadmill but stationary relative to the world around it.

 

[Krynn72]

Yeah, thats true stigmata, but since in real life the plane WILL move in world space, that situation will never happen.

i would figure the propeller would push air on to the wings to create lift. lift isnt caused by how fast the plane is rolling its caused by air resistance against the wing.

Well for one, the air pushed by the propeller alone isnt nearly enough to cause the plane to get lift. What the propeller does is push the plane forward, making it go faster and faster through the air around the plane, and once it reaches a certain speed, there is enough resistance pushing evenly on the wings to make it lift off the ground.

Since the plane is being pushed forward by the propeller, and not the wheels, the conveyor belt will not slow it down at all, since the wheels are free spinning.

 

[Stigmata]

Oh. Maybe I've been confused about this debate from the beginning then.

 

[Krynn72]

I was too until someone here made a flash video to explain it way back when the question come out.

 

[giant384]

i still am confused by this whole debate over this. i still dont see how there will be resistance on the wings if it is stationary. from what i observe, all i see is its rolling on the ground and the propeller is pushing the plane forward to counteract with the belt speed.

this experiment seems very similar to the one where they drove the car into the back of the truck like in the show knightrider.

 

[Dan]

If ever there was a time for facepalm, know that this was it.

 

[Krynn72]

i still am confused by this whole debate over this. i still dont see how there will be resistance on the wings if it is stationary. from what i observe, all i see is its rolling on the ground and the propeller is pushing the plane forward to counteract with the belt speed.

this experiment seems very similar to the one where they drove the car into the back of the truck like in the show knightrider.

I highlighted your problems.

It is very different from the car experiment, because the car is propelled forward by its wheels. The reason why the plane DOES NOT stay stationary on the conveyor is that the wheels on a plane are FREE SPINNING. They can spin at any speed. So when the conveyor belt starts going, and the plane starts moving to overcome the friction that would push the plane back, the wheels are spinning at the same speed as the belt is moving. Then once the plane starts picking up the thrust to take off, the plane moves forward on the belt, which means the wheels are spinning at the belt's speed + plane's forward speed. So the plane will go forward and take off because the wheels will simply increase in their RPM to allow forward movement.

 

[giant384]

seems logical to me but when you think about it actually working then it doesn't make sense.

 

[Vegeta897]

I was too until someone here made a flash video to explain it way back when the question come out.

That was meeeeeeee

I still have them.

rofl, I didn't read the OP and I thought the poll was asking whether the new season of mythbusters was going to be good or not, or something, and since I hate that show, I voted no.

 

[Cheomesh]

MythBusters is fail.

 

[Vegeta897]

MythBusters always does the most stupid-ass non-scientific approaches to "busting myths", it makes me want to shoot myself every time I watch. They always make these dumbass conclusions based on like 3 experiments where they completely change every variable in each one.

And they always build some ridiculous unnecessary thing because they have budget to throw around I suppose. And to get more viewers.

 

[Krynn72]

Mythbusters haters are fail.

 

[joule]

I fail at life.

Q for T.

 

[xcellerate]

MythBusters always does the most stupid-ass non-scientific approaches to "busting myths", it makes me want to shoot myself every time I watch. They always make these dumbass conclusions based on like 3 experiments where they completely change every variable in each one.

Name 3 myths where they:
1.) did too few experiments
2.) changed too many variables each trial

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm really curious.

 

[Qonfused]

argrGrrg rbable rabbel abelealrhgrgrgghggggggggggg

Yeah.

 

[Dan]

Yes, I agree very much with Vegeta. There is a reason that special effects people make movies, and scientists perform experiments and not vice versa .

I don't watch a whole lot of myth busters, but their experiments I have seen which piss me off because of the stupidity of their experiments I can recall:

Recreating Tesla's oscillator - they made their own completely different oscillator and used it on different materials in different in different situations, then called the myth busted.

 

[Saturos]

Mythbusters kicks ass. Too bad I don't have satellite television anymore.;( Will someone be my friend and upload some of the new episodes on-line or something?

 

[xcellerate]

Recreating Tesla's oscillator - they made their own completely different oscillator and used it on different materials in different in different situations, then called the myth busted.

They did it on a bridge and they did admit that it worked though. Even with that 5lb weight they could feel the vibrations from like 50 feet away.

 

[French Ninja]

Want moar Kari!

 

[Baal]

I never had a true stance on it before, because I just didn't think I could make an informed opinion, but now after watching that video I realize that of course it won't take off...there's no wind/air resistance, as a few have pointed out already.

 

[Krynn72]

What the hell. How many times do i have to explain it. THERE IS. It takes off normally. Watching the video should have been proof that it WILL take off. How the hell do you see it otherwise?

 

[giant384]

Recreating Tesla's oscillator - they made their own completely different oscillator and used it on different materials in different in different situations, then called the myth busted.

1.there weren't any specific plans on how to make it
2.doing it inside a building is highly dangerous and the myth was wanting a tall building.
3.it doesn't matter what material you use. as long as you find the resonant frequency then it can do what the myth says it will do. in this case no

Edit: Kyrnn a video on youtube really doesnt prove anything to me. if i know the mythbusters, then i know they will use a real plane and some way to have a large conveyor belt. if it takes off then that proves it for good. a toy plane just doesn't do justice for me.

 

[Baal]

What the hell. How many times do i have to explain it. THERE IS. It takes off normally. Watching the video should have been proof that it WILL take off. How the hell do you see it otherwise?

The way I see it, the location of the aircraft does not actually change in relation to the surroundings.

Surroundings include air

If the aircraft does not move into the air, or the air does not move into the aircraft (wind), there is no resistance, and there is no flight.