Why are we hated in the Arab World?

CB | Para said:
El Chi have you lived in the middle east?
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woot i have i have!!! *waves hand in air frantically*

well, actually, i lived in pakistan for awhile.. not so much the middle east (but it is muslim). the thing people need to realize is that islam is a fairly new religion, and it has spread widely to many parts of the world even more recently. islam has been grafted onto pre-existing cultures. so when you hear about how women can't show their hair or something, well, that's part of the culture before islam came. take pakistan: if you live in the sindi or punjabi areas, you'll see people wearing short-sleeves, women without any sort of head-dress at all, etc. go to the NFWP, where the pattans live, and if you ever even see a woman (it's rare to see them outside), she'll be covered head-to-toe in a burqa. all of these peoples are muslims. more than that they're all pakistanis. but their respective cultures have are still intact because islam came to them through reletively peaceful means (not muslim conquerers). this is true of most islamic countries (e.g. indonesia). just fyi.

edit:
Tr0n said:
Thats politics.... :|
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yeah, well so is war.
 
There is some interesting information in this thread.

I'd like to say that all of the muslims I've ever met are very nice people, quite peaceful. I currently live in China, and China is home to tens of millions of muslims. On the whole, these people are some of the nicest I've met in China.

There are also many international students here in China. Many from Pakistan, Iran, Jordan, Malaysia and Indonesia. Don't forget that South-East Asia is also home to hundreds of millions of muslims.

In conversations with them, many times the subject of Islamic militants has been brought up. Every single time, it is condemned by these muslims. But, in the same breath they condemn the injustices heaped upon the Arab/muslim world by prominent western countries.

One more interesting point - many of them say that in countries like Malaysia and Indonesia, the younger generation of muslims are rather less than committed to orthodox Islamic practices. They enjoy music, dancing, occasionally alcohol... Hell, I spent my New Years Eve party last year in a pub with muslims! From the Middle East, no less!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the terrorists are truly a minority in the arab and muslim world. The only reason you see such high feeling in Palestinian territories, Iraq and Saudi Arabia is because they are dealing with death every day.
 
the arabs who want to kill americans have legitimate reasons for doing so...at least in their minds. They've seen their family members killed in US airstrikes against their training camps...there are women and children in these camps as well as terrorists. They've seen the results of US intervention in their homelands, in their neighbours homeland, in their own government. They've witnessed how the western world turns a blind eye to the ever disappearing arab state that is now occupied palestine; land that the western world promised them in 1947 when they divided up israel. They see an ever increasing US influence on their way of life, they see foreign investors, foreign businesses that are molding governments to do their bidding as encroaching on their way of life. The US has a long history of coups, regime changes, and the backing of radical groups for their own purposes have built up a long standing distrust of american intervention.


a little background info

some of you here need to pick up a book and dispell some of the idiotic notions you may have about arabs. Dont forget that most germans didnt hate jews until Hitler gave them a reason to
 
the arabs who want to kill americans have legitimate reasons for doing so...at least in their minds. They've seen their family members killed in US airstrikes against their training camps...there are women and children in these camps as well as terrorists.
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Oops, we killed the people who live in terrorist training camps, big mistake.

the arabs who want to kill americans have legitimate reasons for doing so...at least in their minds.
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That doesn't change that they're irrational reasons, whether or not they're rational in the terrorist's minds.
 
babywax said:
Oops, we killed the people who live in terrorist training camps, big mistake.
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No, you tried to hit a training camp and actually hit a pre-school....
 
babywax said:
Oops, we killed the people who live in terrorist training camps, big mistake.
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So you support the killing of innocent women and children that are not being trained to be terrorists? Just by living in a terrorist training camp they've signed their own death warrant?

Please... :rolleyes:

babywax said:
That doesn't change that they're irrational reasons, whether or not they're rational in the terrorist's minds.
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Why are they irrational?

Self-defence. Freedom. Justice. Revenge. That is why Palestinian terrorists are fighting.
 
Cybernoid said:
In other places, women are beaten, burned, raped and stoned because they exit the house without permission and so on.
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That's terrible, no one denies this. Does this mean all Arabs hate us? of course not. The events that took place under Taliban rule in Afghanistan were undeniably wrong also but, as el Chi pointed out, not representative. Attrocities like this aren't unique to Muslims, they're unique to humans.

Look at actions of the Lord's Resistance Army, a group of Christian fundamentalist loonies, in Africa. For 15 years they've killed, tortured, maimed, raped and abducted large numbers of civilians, mainly children who are then trained as soldiers. Does this have any bearing on Christians over the world? of course not.

There's millions of Muslims living in many countries all over the world. American and UK television is giving people a very narrow, and biased view, of the Muslim world.

In a city with millions of Muslims we'll see footage of 30 people jumping up and down while burning an American flag, while the rest of the population are nowhere to be seen (they're probably having dinner, or watching the tv). What about the famous footage of Sadams statue being ripped down to the cheers of an Iraqi crowd? (the one where a guy started beating it with his sandal). What we don't hear is that the whole shot was staged, that they had to wait for the cameras to arrive. What looked like a massive crowd of people turned out to be a small group (as subsequent shots, where the camera panned out, prove) Simple directors tricks, as used in the movies. I've studied History, and this is propaganda, pure and simple. And it's happening all the time ........ when was the last time you heard about Muslims in a positive light?

Millions of people are being judged by the actions of a few, and it's disgusting.

(i'm sure some people will condemn me for being a communist, anti-American, tree hugging, vegetarian for having these views. But then again, some people believe only what they see on the news and read on the Internet)
 
babywax said:
Oops, we killed the people who live in terrorist training camps, big mistake.


That doesn't change that they're irrational reasons, whether or not they're rational in the terrorist's minds.
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how is it irrational to want to take revenge for the death of a loved one?
 
I mean, half of Europe hates Americans too
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Uhm... no?! Many people just do not quite like the current US-administration/it's foreign policy; plus there are some retarted youths, who think hating the US would be cool and alternative... but noone really despites 300 Million people; claiming that would be close to an insult.
 
Its not even close to the vast majority of arabs that hate us, its the radical dictators and terrorist groups that do almost all the hating. I know tons of soldiers over in iraq and the general people dont feel any hate towards us. Some people are so misinformed.
 
If you guys would understand how alike Islam and Christianity are. We belive in the same god, they belive in Jesus etc.
 
Sprafa said:
The West destroyed their Empire in 1919
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actually the british dismantled the turkish ottoman empire, and then drew arbitrary lines on a map regardless of cultures or what not in the middle east. what was left of turkey was the only area where the western powers were unable to excercise their will. and where's that damned greek cypriot who said he'd tear apart my arguments about turkey. he never replied to my posts way back when on the cyprus issue. anyways...

this thread has got to have some of the worst cases of cultural relativism i've ever seen. media's got nothing on this. every arab, persian and palestinian i've known (native to the middle east) has had nothing but love for ever other person. they've been some of the nicest people i've met. they live in fear because of attitudes such as what's been voiced on this thread. they fear that because they're arabic/mideastern in background, they will be hated and discriminated against. sadly this is what's going on, often.

hell i'm not arabic buy my mom tells me that she's discriminated against at her work from time to time, because she is turkish. turks are most definitely NOT arabic, but because of the propaganda here in the states, many people think turks are arabs... i've even met some racism in highschool because of my HALF turkish background... and i don't even look turkish.

all of this is sick really; the anti-americans and the anti-middle east sides. ask yourselves honestly: can you really hate a person who's never wronged you except for being from a certain place, and having a certain skin color and religious background?
 
The_Monkey said:
If you guys would understand how alike Islam and Christianity are. We belive in the same god, they belive in Jesus etc.
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this is true. 100% of the muslims i know say it's a sin to speak a bad word about jesus. mulsims and christians are very similar if you know anything.
 
I already said, we've made Cruzades agaisnt the Arabs, I say they have every right to make a Jihad agaisnt us.

And Jesus was also a prophet for Islam, however he was not the Son of God (allah is just a the God in Arab, although Islam allows something like 22 sacred names for him)
 
Sprafa said:
I already said, we've made Cruzades agaisnt the Arabs, I say they have every right to make a Jihad agaisnt us.
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crusades against the turks too. who do you think controlled the middle east for most of that period. the seljuks did. but look at turkey now... that's one of the most progressive countries in the world i'd have to say. although countless people will try to make you believe otherwise... but i have nothing to say to them. i think part of the reason the middle east(apart from turkey) is so f*cked is because of how the land was divided up after it was taken from the turks during WWI.
[tangent]
well... that and the whole isreal thing pissed a lot of the arab world off. but hebrews have been native to that land for a LOOOOONG time. hell, the ancestors of the hebrews conquered egypt back in... hmm... i wanna say 3500 bc... it was some time shortly before or after the upper and lower kingdoms of egypt were unified... i think... i can't remember my ancient history class very well right now hm... anyways to say the israelis have no place in the middle east is kinda ignorant of history, i think...
[/tangent]
 
What I've come to understand is, the whole world pretty much hates the US.

Americans are stubborn, full of themselves, and don't care about/respect other religions and cultures.

Anything that goes on outside of their borders don't seem to concern them, unless it will eventually concern them (terrorism, possibility of war on American Soil).

I'm not saying all Americans are like this, just some.

Ever notice how even Americans often wear Canadian Flags when traveling? It's because if people see the American Flag or assume you're American, you're treated like garbage. Or mugged.
 
Recoil said:
Uhm... no?! Many people just do not quite like the current US-administration/it's foreign policy; plus there are some retarted youths, who think hating the US would be cool and alternative... but noone really despites 300 Million people; claiming that would be close to an insult.
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Yeah 'hate' is too strong a word, but it's true that many people in Europe don't exactly love America, and wouldn't put it in their top 10 favourite countries.
 
even canadians who live right next door are a little weary of americans. We like to think of them as an older cousin who's a bit of a bully and isnt all that bright.
 
Yeah 'hate' is too strong a word, but it's true that many people in Europe don't exactly love America, and wouldn't put it in their top 10 favourite countries.
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Maybe... but I personally can't understand how someone can say "Oh, Americans are so stupid, ignorant, bla...", probably without knowing any Americans. I mean, there surely are some strange people in the US, that do say strange things... but every country has it's idiots, right? And the example I wrote above implicits that all Americans are that way. 300 Million. Come on, how can one be that ignorant?

And no, I'm not an US-Citizen, I just want to make clear that intolerance & prejudices suck...
 
How can you explain that Americans vote for Bush if they're not ignorant ?

The entire world is against him, but they don't give a shit about the World opinion!!!

edit - I jsut considered the consequences of this post and well, I'll take my chances.
 
I just want to point out that no country nor continent should be blamed from the actions of a small minority group.
 
Sprafa said:
How can you explain that Americans vote for Bush if they're not ignorant ?

The entire world is against him, but they don't give a shit about the World opinion!!!

edit - I jsut considered the consequences of this post and well, I'll take my chances.
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most americans didnt vote

Al gore actually got more votes
 
Jackal hit said:
well... that and the whole isreal thing pissed a lot of the arab world off. but hebrews have been native to that land for a LOOOOONG time. hell, the ancestors of the hebrews conquered egypt back in... hmm... i wanna say 3500 bc... it was some time shortly before or after the upper and lower kingdoms of egypt were unified... i think... i can't remember my ancient history class very well right now hm... anyways to say the israelis have no place in the middle east is kinda ignorant of history, i think...
[/tangent]
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I don't think that the creation of Israel is viewed as the biggest problem by the arab world.

In my opinion it is the terrible injustices being heaped upon the Palestinians, by a state that constantly defies international law. How has Israel been able to get away with this? Simple -> by having the support of the US.

Palestinians are treated like criminals, they are refugees in their own land. The usual channels to redress their grievances do not work, as the US is shielding Israel from the UN and international law.

Even most Arabs are kind, generous and decent human beings, you cannot deny that there is a widespread feeling of discontent with America over this issue.
 
So you support the killing of innocent women and children that are not being trained to be terrorists? Just by living in a terrorist training camp they've signed their own death warrant?
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Exactly, if you live with terrorists and you get bombed, YOU SHOULD HAVE EXPECTED IT.

I'm not going to go live in a cave with osama bin laden and act like I'm not going to get bombed, use your brain.

No, you tried to hit a training camp and actually hit a pre-school
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(paraphrased)
Accidents happen, some times they're horrible horrible accidents and sometimes they happen. Accidents are how a lot of people die.

how is it irrational to want to take revenge for the death of a loved one?
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If someone from the canadian army accidentally drops a bomb on my house, I'm not going to attack canada with an AK47 and then suicide bomb a church full of people.
 
babywax said:
Exactly, if you live with terrorists and you get bombed, YOU SHOULD HAVE EXPECTED IT.

I'm not going to go live in a cave with osama bin laden and act like I'm not going to get bombed, use your brain, it's there for a reason.
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well now you see how some terrorists think all americans should be killed:
"Exactly, if you live in america and you get bombed, YOU SHOULD HAVE EXPECTED IT"

babywax said:
If someone from the canadian army accidentally drops a bomb on my house, I'm not going to attack canada with an AK47 and then suicide bomb a church full of people.
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and so what would you do? sue the military? the government? ya I'm sure that will work for a terrorist who's family was killed...incidently how many men are now terrorists because their family was killed in air raids in iraq? they werent terrorists before the invasion
 
well, too many accidents like that bring hatred to their minds....
 
its obvious everybody hates us there because we are allied with a bunch of murderes and land robbers who are killing 12 years old kids with helicopters.
 
CptStern said:
"Exactly, if you live in america and you get bombed, YOU SHOULD HAVE EXPECTED IT"
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No, we don't target civilians, we're not COWARDS. Sure, mistakes are made in war, but targetting civilians isn't war, it's terrorism. That's what seperates the terrorists from our soldiers. We target TERRORIST TRAINING CAMPS, not "You killed 3000 of our people, we're going to nuke your country now."

well, too many accidents like that bring hatred to their minds....
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Good point Sprafa.

and so what would you do? sue the military? the government? ya I'm sure that will work for a terrorist who's family was killed...incidently how many men are now terrorists because their family was killed in air raids in iraq? they werent terrorists before the invasion
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Hypothetical situation:
You're living in Canada and your house is bombed accidentally by the U.S. in a training operation, just like that thing that happened a while back. What do you do?
By your rationale you strap a bomb on your back and detonate yourself in the Whitehouse.
 
babywax said:
No, we don't target civilians, we're not COWARDS. Sure, mistakes are made in war, but targetting civilians isn't war, it's terrorism. That's what seperates the terrorists from our soldiers. We target TERRORIST TRAINING CAMPS, not "You killed 3000 of our people, we're going to nuke your country now."
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so there was 10,000 accidents during the war? 10,000 iraqi civilians killed by coalition forces....accidentily..all 10,000? In the first war there was 30,000 civilian casualties...so were they all accidental?

babywax said:
Hypothetical situation:
You're living in Canada and your house is bombed accidentally by the U.S. in a training operation, just like that thing that happened a while back. What do you do?
By your rationale you strap a bomb on your back and detonate yourself in the Whitehouse.
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your situation doesnt pan out because you said :

"and your house is bombed accidentally "

firing missles at camps that intelligence clearly shows are full of women and children is not "accidental"
 
If they're living in a terrorist training camp they're probably already a terrorist anyway.
so there was 10,000 accidents during the war? 10,000 iraqi civilians killed by coalition forces....accidentily?
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Link please.

EDIT:
firing missles at camps that intelligence clearly shows are full of women and children is not "accidental"
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Another link please.
 
I hate to sound like an ass, but where do they get their numbers? Iraqbodycount.com just doesn't seem like a credible source to me.
 
they have a list of all their sources on their website, because after all the US isnt keeping a running tab, so somebody has to do it

"We don’t do body counts”
- General Tommy Franks, US Central Command


but it doesnt really matter...I can prove the US has never cared about the civilians in iraq:

"When asked on US television if she [Madeline Albright, US Secretary of State] thought that the death of half a million Iraqi children [from sanctions in Iraq] was a price worth paying, Albright replied: "This is a very hard choice, but we think the price is worth it."
 
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/bodycount.htm
Ehh, this lists all civilians killed by terrorists too, it's not just U.S./England/whoever's bombs going off target, or some Marine accidentally shooting a woman.

EDIT:
This also caught my eye:
the breakdown in law and order, and deaths due to inadequate health care or sanitation.
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Hmm, I wonder how good their health care was under Saddam? I wonder if they bothered to get a count of the deaths due to these causes under Saddam, and then did the math.
 
iraq had the highest infant death rate during the sanctions, but had one of the highest infant survival rates before the sanctions

btw did you miss this line:

This database includes up to 7,350 deaths which resulted from coalition military action during the "major-combat" phase prior to May 1st 2003
 
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