Why do I continually hear...

[PvtRyan]

Oh shit i'll just delete that pic

Edit: Oh crap i can't delete it!

Ah, well it shows nothing new and it isn't a spoiler, so who cares?

 

[Lobster]

When ur blasting ur way through an immersive storyline, anyone who stops to count polygons really doesnt get any fun out of games.

And i pitty those people

 

[Gorgon]

Ok

Doom3 marine
http://www.planetdoom.com/images/screenshots/hi-res-trailer/31a.jpg
http://www.planetdoom.com/images/screenshots/hi-res-trailer/30a.jpg

Combine
http://www.beyondhalflife.com/gallery/pics/50.jpg
http://www.beyondhalflife.com/gallery/pics/37.jpg

.

When I made a comparison between these screenshots, I ended up with the conclusion of:

Doom3 is a game using characters and environment from (FinalFantasy The movie) while HALFLIFE2 is a game has been made of Cartoon. :angry:

I hop the final version of HL2 will have a super Grahpics (But thats just a dream) ;(

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Mr-Fusion:


Allthough I don't know nor care which game has the best graphics I feel it my duty as honory fanboi of HL2 to point it out to you that:

You choose the most important and most detailed character from Doom3 with the highest graphics possible enabled (At the time most likely) but to compare it you choose the generic enemy of the combine who is in directX 8 mode (As stated by valve that all media let out is DirectX8.0 except the HDR video).


At least compare the guy to Dr Kleiner or Alyx. They are a better match. Also we have yet to see HL2 running on full graphics.




Again, let me say that I don't know which looks the best because I have seen neither with highest settings to my knowlege.
But I must say DOOM3 looks mightly impresive. As of course does HL2.

 

[genocide604]

I think hl2 engine will only be better for mp, as it will probly keep framerates high.. as for graphical power, it does not out rate Farcry or any other next gen game.

 

[X-Vector]

I think it's a fact that Doom 3 models are more detailed, but whether they look better is a matter of taste. I like the realistic look of HL2, with believable models, you like the highly detailed models of Doom 3 which have the main drawback that they look like oversized GI Joe's.

I don't know if DooM III models are more detailed, they simply use a different technique to convey texture.
Id's way looks more '3D', which means more immersive to some, but IMO it also sacrifices finer texture detail which adds to the unnaturally 'clean' look.
Compare the chainsaw in this shot to the one in this '99 screen of DNF, for instance.

My biggest problem with DooM III's visuals, however, is the monotony in its use of colour and the lack of believable portrayal of material properties.
Take a look at the DooM III screenshots posted above and notice that:
a. the scenes in question seem to be bathed in a monochromatic hue; i.e. everything more or less seems to have the same colour.
b. every object also practically seems to consist of the same material; the floor, the walls, the weapons, the wallcrawler, even our trusty marine self.

Note that this is not meant to be a specific knock against id; as I mentioned above, it's something I've noticed in other games that focus on similar graphics techniques.

 

[Brian Damage]

Interesting fact I discovered recently: The Doom 3 engine uses only one shader, hence the "plastic" look of the objects. Half Life 2 in Source uses many.

Also, I believe I remember reading that the Doom 3 models are in the region of 2000-3000 polys, whereas the HL2 models are 5000-6000, rising to about 7000-8000 in the case of important characters. In Doom 3, they've said they'll be using special higher-detail models for cinematic closeups.

Still, I don't think you'll notice much lack of detail in D3, considering you'll probably spend most of your time running around blasting the hoards of Hell to many little squishy pieces. HL2 sounds like it'll be a slightly more sedate affair, allowing you to admire the scenery...

 

[Lobster]

I just think if people always want the best renderer then there never gonna be happy, by the time a game is released theres always a video of somthing better.

In my opinion as long as the graphics are decent, theres no need to suck up resources at the expense of other features, larger maps, and fun gameplay, I have never baught a game because it boasts a million more polygons than the next, or that its light drains my cpu 30% more than the next, I buy singleplayer games if they look fun, and multiplayer games if the community is large enough.

And at the end of the day, those who do care about the picky details, will most probbally end up getting all of them anyway, so the whole "my engines bigger than your engine" argument is getting really old, and causing development companies to spend more time incorporating powerfull graphics and less time making good games.

 

[CrazyHarij]

People who say it looks shitty are those who haven't watched the "new" source HDR video. That one still looks better than todays games tbh

 

[genocide604]

People who say it looks shitty are those who haven't watched the "new" source HDR video. That one still looks better than todays games tbh

Graphics will always get better, my concern is always with gameplay.. thus far valve hasnt let the community down.. so i expect nothing less than spectacular.. and so other game companies are trying to trend the same.

 

[Asus]

Time to settle this puppy of an argument.

Gameplay over Graphics ALWAYS!

I beg,nah order anyone who says that graphics are more important to play
the Monkey Island Series(Well 1,2,4 anyway)
Sam and Max Hit the Road(Damn them for cutting the New one)
Full Throttle(Damn them for cutting the New one)
Grim Fandango
Day of the Tentacle
Half-Life(The obvious one)+its mods
Call Of Duty(Slightly newer and looks ok but still offspring of QIII)

And they are just the ones which spring to mind,many would also say Starcraft,CnC Red Alert,Total Annihilation.

Now back to the topic.(and relevence)HL2 looks brilliant however it doesnt need to be the best looking FPS on the market,it just needs to be enjoyable,fun to play and evoke that warm fuzzy feeling you get when you know you are playing a good game.

Except 1 or 2, all of those games you listed I have played...amazing.

Both shall be good but I think the variety of how materials look in HL2 will be a plus for graphics. The DX8 shots should look a bit dated. It's DX8... The DX9 bink was awesome. I welcome newer SS and footage from HL2 with good IQ (AA/AF), higher res, and in DX9.

 

[blahblahblah]

First off, you can't even really compare HL2 and Doom3 engines in their current state. They are using textures that are completly different. Doom3 is using textures to make a futuristic sci-fi looking environment, while the HL2 textures are being using to create a plausible city enviornment. I guarantee that if you swapped the engine for both games, each game would look pretty close to its current state.

Secondly, I have yet to see a DX 9 (engine) played with decent framrates on my machine. My specs are Athlon XP 2800 +, 1gig RAM, 9600 Pro. Only a few DX 9 games have come out, but they show a disturbing trend. I personally own Halo and Battlefield Vietnam and neither of them are able to have the framrates when compared to DX8 games (Call of Duty and others). I also heard DX: Invisible War (DX 9) is also supposed to have horrific frame rates. If this pattern keeps up, you wont have to worry about HDR (HL2) or high-detail models (Doom3) because very few computers will be able to power them properly.

Thirdly, if you are able to pay attention to the small details during the first-time through during the game, that game is going to suck. I have just as much fun playing Serious Sam as playing Call of Duty, the only similarity between them is that they are both fun to play. Complex gameplay does not mean a fun game experience.

Fourth, if Valve and ID Software want to settle this argument once and for all, please have them send me a copy of HL2 and Doom3 to me at...

One last thing, who ever says one game looks worse than another needs to have their head examined. Especially if you consider the state of computers right now.

 

[Styloid]

Since HL2 is fully capable of using normal maps, etc on models, I don't expect many of the old E3 screenshots to stand up to the newer ones. However Valve has said that it will use normal maps and specular maps 'naturally'; meaning it's only used where it needs to be used to create an immersive world, not everywhere resulting in plastic looking people/everything.
I think there is a major ideology difference between Id and Valve and that is where a lot of fans are split up as well. Id wants to push the tech barrier and have real-time shadows while sacrificing realistic shadows and textures. To many fans the real-time shadows really do have that 'technologically advanced' look since it resembles many of the CG animations we have seen in the past (Starship Troopers, etc). Valve, however, do not sacrifice any natural look (no plastic people, no hard-edged shadows, etc) because they want to create a natural looking world that doesn't push the technological envelope (and doesn't look like CG) but more like a movie or a photograph.

 

[Murray_H]

That screenshot that was posted earlier (the one that's not strictly allowed ), i went to the gallery of screens on that website -> non-spoiler beta images and there is a picture there that looks really really good (the one with the city and water). If that sort of quality is maintained throughout HL2 then it will make for an awesome experience!

 

[Gergor]

The Source Engine does everything the Doom 3, X-Ray , and Cry- engines do, and in many cases, it does things they cannot do. As an example, the Doom 3 engine uses only dynamic lights. Therefore it has no support for radiosity lighting, causing lighting to look much less realistic than in the Source engine which uses static and dynamic lights and supports radiosity lighting. I'm not just talking out my ass, either, the technical specs are available, so go read them.

 

[Yatta]

quite frankly I think FC looks a bit shitty.

Chimpman my good man, I agree. :thumbs:

 

[genocide604]

quite frankly I think FC looks a bit shitty.

Whats with the hate fanboys, I think Farcry has mod potential for multiplayer. And it's single player is excellent.

 

[Wesisapie]

I dont know why people think HL2 graphics will be updated. Valve stated the Source build had been completed and no new features would be introducted. So that pretty much means, no updated graphical features too.
But you guys can keep hoping if you want.

 

[PvtRyan]

I dont know why people think HL2 graphics will be updated. Valve stated the Source build had been completed and no new features would be introducted. So that pretty much means, no updated graphical features too.
But you guys can keep hoping if you want.

They said in an interview (don't know where) that Steam could detect if you installed new hardware with more capabilities (for example PS3.0) and then it automatically downloads new shaders for example.
The also mentioned things like motion blur, DOF, more detailed texures (for 512 MB videocards for example).
They also plan, like Epic, to update their engine with the latest technologies;

HomeLAN - Are there plans to improve the Source engine and have those improvements filter down to licensees, like Epic does with the Unreal engine?

Rick Ellis - Absolutely. We currently release new builds on a periodic basis but also allow licensees to request builds when they are ready for them or see additions to the code they want to incorporate into their game.

While that last part may not be HL2 related, they do plan to keep Source an up to date engine that won't back down for the newer engines (like UE3).

 

[mrchimp]

Whats with the hate fanboys, I think Farcry has mod potential for multiplayer. And it's single player is excellent.

I said nothing about the gameplay or mod potential. I just don't think it looks very good, it's too bright, shiny and plasticky, I was also disapointed with the water. Not only that but I think the explosions are a bit weedy and the characters look crap. From a distance the foliage doesn't look too good either.

At one point I was quite exited about FC so this isn't a fanboy biased view.

 

[Iconoclast]

I was also disapointed with the water.

Alarm bells. Not a fanboy. No sir.

Are you blind?

 

[mrchimp]

It depends what angle you look at the water, when you are almost parallel to it, it starts to look pretty bad, especially the shore line (from a distance). I would take some screenshots to show you if I still had the game.

Anyway I said I was disapointed with the water not that it looked terrible. Although sometimes it really does, if you zoom in on it from a distance then you can see the low detail replacement shader. When really as the camera is closer to it, you should see the high detail one.

 

[worldspawn]

I would still buy half-life2 even if it was just half-life 1 in source engine.. (which is awesome btw .. )


the mods make the game worth itself x 100 ...


so many fun times in half-life engine mods.. tfc was awesome for a long long time.. then cs and science and industry.. rocket crowbar and firearms... and then early versions of dod (hate dod now) .. and now natural selection and the specialists (****ing nice graphics.. for hl engine) .. hl rally coming out today despite hacker attacks.. and all for free after paying for a game that was one of the best singleplayer and funnest deathmatch i ever played.. It's just unreal.

 

[Fishlore]

Personally the only reason I'd say FarCry right now is because it actually exists. I can play it and it's fun.

If/when HL2 is finally released I'll probably say HL2. No promises, but with all this extra dev time it better be pretty fricken amazing.

 

[BlumenKohl]

From what I've seen of all these next-gen games.... FarCry wins.

Far Cry #1
Far Cry #2 (Graphics Still #1)
Far Cry #3 (Graphics STILL #1
Far Cry #4 (and it beat all those overhyped games in release dates too!

 

[Direwolf]

Its not like we can have a comparison here.
We haven't even played any of the contenders other than FarCry.

 

[Gundam Guru]

other than the foilage and water, I'm not that impressed with FC, except with it's sheer size. HL2's water looks better. Also a game that is hyped over graphics but has ugly foilage and npc character models is Stalker

 

[Zerox]

Games running on UE3 won't get released until year 2005-2006, so comparing source with UE3 is just stupid.

 

[Gundam Guru]

i wasn't comparing, i was talking about how people say its outdated and they're comparing. well i was kinda comparing, but whateva

 

[clarky003]

genocide i totally agree, Its all in the eye of the beholder. Bar the fact that all these games look great, peoples eye seems to ajust to favouritism,

weither it be HL2's look and feel, or other games, Far Cry is very nice graphically and so is Doom 3, HL2's graphics are far more crisp. and realistic looking and thats all to do with the atmosphere its trying to create. (as it isnt trying to produce tropical Islands with forests on a vaste scale, or over dramatised dark scary rooms with flickering lighting),

but the fact of the matter is these games do create and have different feel, and I say enjoy the different types for what they are, not what they could be. thats for programmers and designers to sort out,, at a later date

 

[clarky003]

Mr chimp has terribly high standards, have you seen HL2's shoreline water , Far Crys water looks decent indoors and outdoors, so its got something going for it over Half life 2

(it looks fine from long distance, must be the old Beast of a computer overheating )

 

[PvtRyan]

Mr chimp has terribly high standards, have you seen HL2's shoreline water , Far Crys water looks decent indoors and outdoors, so its got something going for it over Half life 2

(it looks fine from long distance, must be the old Beast of a computer overheating )

HL2 water has a few things going for it over Far Cry water. Like that it uses fresnel term correctly. Meaning that on low angles, the water will be highly reflective and barely refractive, and on high angles, there's very little reflection but a lot of refraction. Makes it look a lot more realistic.
On a long distance, for example at the other end of a lake, it's very reflective, and in front of your feet, the water is perfectly clear.
The second thing is that HL2 supports HDR lighting, which means that water can get some really impressive high definition reflections of the sun and stuff.

 

[clarky003]

awsome thats alot of knowledge retainment right there PvtRyan. Water.... 'drools' so much water, sounds cool but it still doesnt blend naturally at terrain edges and unless there changing it, its gonna look mighty ugly, I guess valve just thought , ' well leave that to the guys at Ubi Soft '

 

[Spiffae]

That screenshot that was posted earlier (the one that's not strictly allowed ), i went to the gallery of screens on that website -> non-spoiler beta images and there is a picture there that looks really really good (the one with the city and water). If that sort of quality is maintained throughout HL2 then it will make for an awesome experience!

funny thing about that picture: look closely at it. the buildings are reflected perfectly, but the buildings in the 3d skybox are not reflected at all. probably i would never notice it in game, but it's weird.

 

[Voodoo_Chile]

Except 1 or 2, all of those games you listed I have played...amazing.

Both shall be good but I think the variety of how materials look in HL2 will be a plus for graphics. The DX8 shots should look a bit dated. It's DX8... The DX9 bink was awesome. I welcome newer SS and footage from HL2 with good IQ (AA/AF), higher res, and in DX9.

You should get the Monkey Island bounty pack.2 of the greatest Adventure games of all time + the third one.(Might include number four,got mine awhile ago)Its well worth it as its pretty cheap.

Also I think Lucas Arts classics have Sam And Max hit the road cheap also on its own,though there is a collection which i got with Grim Fandango,Full Throttle and The Dig (Not all that bad only lacks the comedy of the other 3)
Though if you can get it free off the ineternet or copied would be better so as the screw Lucas Arts outta some cash for cancelling two sequals i was looking forward to.(SaM 2 and FT2)

 

[Styloid]

Graphics will be judged differently by everybody. I don't think there ever will be a game where every single gamer will unanimously agree that it has the best graphics. I remember when I first saw Far Cry screenshots I was wondering how a game like that could compete with the quality we would get from next-gen games and then I saw people saying how it they looked better than the next-gen games. Until today FarCry looks really unatural to me but it just goes to show that different people can have drastically different tastes.

 

[clarky003]

SaM 2 has been scrapped ,

PC gamer UK, legit

 

[Crusader]

Why are you people even arguing about HL2 graphics versus anything else? VALVe already stated they can simply pump up the image quality when they think OUR hardware is up to the task.

That means this whole argument is pretty redundant, as the source engine is capable of much more than any of us have yet seen. It's the hardware currently available we should be arguing about.

This is why all of HL2's art assets were originally created far more detailed and at higher resolution, and scaled down to meet todays hardware capabilities. Also, VALVe seem to plan on upgrading and developing HL2 for years after its release. I wonder which game we'll be playing in 5 years time...

Besides, are we really supposed to feel emotionally charged when interacting with characters that look like they've been varnished? /jk

 

[Apos]

Interesting fact I discovered recently: The Doom 3 engine uses only one shader, hence the "plastic" look of the objects.

Where did you find this information? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to see come citations on this that prove it. Seems a little unlikely to me.

 

[Apos]

I don't think there ever will be a game where every single gamer will unanimously agree that it has the best graphics.

Definately. What people don't realize is that all game companies are basically working off the same basic architectures. They may have designed their own engines, but what these engines are doing are not really revolutionary new concepts in most cases: they are applications of well known ideas within the industry. They may be quite well written and optimized applications, but it's not like Doom3 lighting method was some industry secret that no other company could figure out to do.

Basically, then, it's just a matter of what designers can get from the current range of hardware. And given that this is the big limiting factor, most new big title games are all going to look really good: none is going to be light years ahead of the rest.