Why the leaked global warming data will be a major hit to the environment

[jverne]

Let me start by saying that i don't give a **** about CO2 levels and other greenhouse gases (for the time being), as you all probably know since i've had this position for years.

What i'm worried is that since "global warming" was debunked alot of...erm...intellectual midgets might understand this as a reason to burn even more.

Altough i didn't primarily share this idea, one forum member (i forgot which one) mentioned, that by reducing CO2 emissions, other pollution that really matters will be consequently reduced. Such as other really nasty chemical compounds that come with the burning of fuel. Amongst others...are also heavy metals. As i said numerous times the chemization of our environment is far more worrying than CO2. Some links you might check if you're bored, or interested.
(man made pollution with mercury) http://www.msceast.org/reps/emecap.pdf
(analysis of exaust fumes) http://www.greenlivingtips.com/articles/269/1/Car-exhaust-chemicals.html

Thus CO2 could be used as a mascot of anti pollution for the masses of dumb ****s, that think i'm a evil sorcerer if i try explain to them what are Polycyclic hydrocarbons.

It's not unexpected that eating fish from more liable fishing grounds is not recommended more than once a week or once every two weeks, yes there are many arguments about how much is advised.

Chemical pollution is a slow killer...it makes our life worse than it should be. Nowadays that people don't live 40 years anymore we need to live healthier if we want to put to good use the additional life we have. If you don't plant to live longer, you still don't have the right to worsen other peoples right to do so. (at least in my opinion)
It's been documented that chemical pollution increases asthma, allergies and similar forms of diseases.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/116308454/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
http://www.ei-resource.org/news/allergy-news/traffic-pollution-doubles-allergy-risk-in-children/


The sad thing is that we don't need to decrease our living standard in order to better our environment. We just need to increase efficiency in all aspects of life.
A practical way of doing this (amongst many others) would be if efficient lifestyles/solutions would be encouraged or subsidized. Rather than penalizing the abusers.

Anyway...point is that this leaked info is a setback for the environmental struggles especially for future ones.

 

[Krynn72]

I made a aerosol can bonfire the day that news broke. So yeah, it will get worse.

 

[Sparta]

I find it incredibly ironic that a handful of sentences (from thousands of hacked emails that span over the course of ten years) is being used as evidence to cast doubt on all of the decades worth of work being done by the tens of thousands of climatologists on climate change.

And these handful of sentences are being used as undeniable proof of a conspiracy by the very people who were ignoring the massive majority of scientific research in the first place.

I'm surprised Al Gore hasn't come out with a handful of emails, stolen from energy companies over the past decade that suggests climate change is real, and is using that as undeniable proof of AGW. I mean, if that's all the evidence that's needed to prove one side's right, why the decades of research then?

Seriously, what an embarrassing waste of time for all these "global-warming" believers.

 

[VirusType2]

I don't see what is so hard to understand that the Earth could be unlivable for us.

The Earth went through a lot of changes millions of years ago before we got here, and you can bet your ass it was unlivable. The atmosphere was filled with poisons... Look at the dinosaurs.

But now the pieces are starting to come together, thanks to a team of NASA-funded sleuths who have found the "fingerprints" of the villain, or at least of one of the accomplices

Above: Life was flourishing on the Earth about 250 million years ago, then during a brief window of geologic time nearly all of it was wiped out. This image is an artist's impression of a Lower Permian swamp in Texas.

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The terrible event had been lost in the amnesia of time for eons. It was only recently that paleontologists, like hikers stumbling upon an unmarked grave in the woods, noticed a startling pattern in the fossil record: Below a certain point in the accumulated layers of earth, the rock shows signs of an ancient world teeming with life. In more recent layers just above that point, signs of life all but vanish.

Somehow, most of the life on Earth perished in a brief moment of geologic time roughly 250 million years ago. Scientists call it the Permian-Triassic extinction or "the Great Dying" -- not to be confused with the better-known Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction that signaled the end of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. Whatever happened during the Permian-Triassic period was much worse: No class of life was spared from the devastation. Trees, plants, lizards, proto-mammals, insects, fish, mollusks, and microbes -- all were nearly wiped out. Roughly 9 in 10 marine species and 7 in 10 land species vanished. Life on our planet almost came to an end.

Scientists have suggested many possible causes for the Great Dying: severe volcanism, a nearby supernova, environmental changes wrought by the formation of a super-continent, the devastating impact of a large asteroid -- or some combination of these. Proving which theory is correct has been difficult. The trail has grown cold over the last quarter billion years; much of the evidence has been destroyed.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/28jan_extinction.htm

Today, some creatures, like tropical marine reef fish, will all die if the temperature in their habitat changes by as much as a few degrees.


The most ridiculous thing is "The Door To Hell":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2NFqXPZgq8

None dared to go down there because the cavern was filled with gas. So they ignited it so that no poisonous gas could come out of the hole, and since then, it's burning, already for 35 years without any pause. Nobody knows how many tons of excellent gas has been burned for all those years but it just seems to be infinite there.

Whether small changes are going to make the difference or not, we should try to reduce all of our emissions and wastes. And I quite agree that toxic pollution (like mercury and pesticides) is the worst of it. This ends up in the food we eat.

Perhaps Earth will eventually become like Venus

The El Niño/La Niña climatic regime, due to volcanism, will result in a steady increase of land-waters and cloud-cover ... which will raise the planetary albedo and lower the global mean temperature. Also, ice-melt waters (from northern ice-sheets) will surface-flood the North Atlantic, reducing evaporation and triggering the onset of the mini-iceage.

Once the global cooling trend is under way, the build-up of land-waters and ice will bring about a reduction of ocean levels ... and, by 5,000AD, these levels will be 20 metres lower than at present. However, by 20,000AD, when the global mean temperature has risen to 21 degrees Celsius, virtually all ice will have melted and ocean-levels will be 100 metres higher than at present. Then the great evaporation starts and, by 200,000AD, all water will be gone from the surface.

http://www.normanspencer.co.nz/Next60000Years/Earth.html

 

[PvtRyan]

Perhaps Earth will eventually become like Venus

http://www.normanspencer.co.nz/Next60000Years/Earth.html

That seems to rely on the Expanding Earth hypothesis.

 

[the cow says moo]

Once the global cooling trend is under way, the build-up of land-waters and ice will bring about a reduction of ocean levels ... and, by 5,000AD, these levels will be 20 metres lower than at present. However, by 20,000AD, when the global mean temperature has risen to 21 degrees Celsius, virtually all ice will have melted and ocean-levels will be 100 metres higher than at present. Then the great evaporation starts and, by 200,000AD, all water will be gone from the surface.

I'd like to think that we'll come up with a solution in the next 197,990 years.

 

[VirusType2]

We don't have that long. Scientists believe that if we don't make a drastic change in our habits and practices (like installing massive wind farms to create clean energy and burn less coal), by 2015, it will be too late. Irreversible changes spell doomsday by 2050.

“Business-as-usual” projections foresee a 70% increase in oil demand and a 130% rise in CO2 emissions by 2050. Such an increase in CO2 emissions could raise global average temperatures by 6°C [42.8 degrees Fahrenheit] or more, resulting in significant impacts on all aspects of life and irreversible changes in the natural environment.

A dramatic shift is needed in government energy policies, ensuring longer-term planning on which industries can rely. International cooperation among all major economies will also be crucial, bearing in mind that a large proportion of future CO2 emissions are likely to come from the developing world.

http://www.greenfacts.org/en/energy-technologies/

Based on current scientific thinking, this could have potentially serious longer term implications in terms of global warming and related climate change.

On the other hand a scenario such as the "Green growth plus" strategy outlined in the report could allow for continued healthy growth whilst controlling carbon emissions.

http://www.pwc.com/gx/en/world-2050/impact-of-global-growth-on-carbon-emissions.jhtml

The best thing we can do as civilians is never get on a plane unless absolutely necessary, turn off lights, drive less.

 

[Raziaar]

A majority of the opposition are religions fanatics who don't give a shit about the condition they leave the planet in for their offspring... because Mayan Jesus is gonna come pick them up in 2012.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

A majority of the opposition are religions fanatics who don't give a shit about the condition they leave the planet in for their offspring... because Mayan Jesus is gonna come pick them up in 2012.

And yet, they won't make it into heaven because they left a creation of God in a right state :cheers:

 

[Dynasty]

Humans arent worth saving or having on this planet.

Ive started to feel like that over the past year or 2.

Then I watched a pre-screening of The Age Of Stupid starring fairly famous British actor Pete Postlethwaite, which was a look back from his future time at news footage and documentaries toward global warming. A wind turbine section of the film had me not knowing whether to laugh or cry at human arrogance and sheer stupidity.

Essentially what happened was a guy in some county in the UK put toward the council a plan to build a small wind turbine farm in, basically, the middle of nowhere. The council said it was commited to going greener and doing whatever was necessary to reduce their emissions yada yada yada.

And the guy's plans were turned down because the council felt it would 'spoil the view for home owners in the area'.

We dont deserve to be here with thinking like that.

I TRULY hope an asteroid hits Earth so it can 'reset' itself. We're just parasites.

 

[VirusType2]

Humans arent worth saving or having on this planet.

Ive started to feel like that over the past year or 2.

Then I watched a pre-screening of The Age Of Stupid starring fairly famous British actor Pete Postlethwaite, which was a look back from his future time at news footage and documentaries toward global warming. A wind turbine section of the film had me not knowing whether to laugh or cry at human arrogance and sheer stupidity.

Essentially what happened was a guy in some county in the UK put toward the council a plan to build a small wind turbine farm in, basically, the middle of nowhere. The council said it was commited to going greener and doing whatever was necessary to reduce their emissions yada yada yada.

And the guy's plans were turned down because the council felt it would 'spoil the view for home owners in the area'.

We dont deserve to be here with thinking like that.

I TRULY hope an asteroid hits Earth so it can 'reset' itself. We're just parasites.

Exactly bro, I saw the same video. "Not in my backyard." and the people are ****ing nasty about it too.

That woman is the work of the devil. Did you see her slow-mo laugh? Holy **** that's terrifying. Satan spawn.


I rescued 1,000 sq. feet of endangered rainforest in South America by buying 10 specially labeled Tropicana orange juices over the course of many months. I waited to redeem them until today.

I dedicated 100 sq. feet to each of my sibling's children for Christmas this year. It sends them an email and a link to watch their plot grow using Google GeoEye.

Shit makes me want to cry and shit. There aren't many Holiday gifts that are really in the spirit of things anymore, but ...

this -

Feels, good man.

91,492,100 sq ft Rescued

http://www.tropicanarainforest.com/p/handler?target=general&action=displayPage&sid=3610&pageId=217\

On average, an area of the rainforest roughly the size of Los Angeles disappears every month.

Destruction of the rainforest sends vast amounts of greenhouse gas emissions into the atmosphere. About as much as all the CO2 emitted by the US every year. And it’s accelerating at a rapid pace. [1,2].

The deforestation makes room for cattle ranching and farmland for crops such as soya or palm oil. [2,3] But the money from these activities offers only short-term gains. Rainforest soil is thin and fragile and, once cleared, its ability to support crops significantly deteriorates. [4]

Rainforests are worth much more when left standing. They have an international carbon value far greater than their farming worth, and when managed sustainably, can generate a good income for the local economy.

 

[jverne]

please don't turn this into a global warming debate...as in, if it's true or not.


i'm have not yet made up my mind whether human species deserves to die or not. i'm still hoping that humans will come to realize we can live nicely at a much slower destructive rate. all we have to do is not be such ****ing pricks to nature.

although i have to admit i'm kinda loosing faith in the new generation...they seem more concerned about jacking off to a new iPhone than anything else. Tough i must admit that that's probably anecdotal evidence.

 

[jondy]

i'm have not yet made up my mind whether human species deserves to die or not.

Don't keep us all waiting

 

[bbson john]

The problem is many people care about reducing toxic waste, but not many care about reducing non-toxic CO2. Unless in large amount, toxic wastes affect environment locally, but greenhouse gas affect environment globally. Fortunately, reducing dependence on fossil fuel can reduce both pollutions.

 

[jverne]

Fortunately, reducing dependence on fossil fuel can reduce both pollutions.

true

Unless in large amount, toxic wastes affect environment locally, but greenhouse gas affect environment globally.

not (that) true



and a huge difference is that if there's to much CO2 we have global warming, if there's too much pollution our environment becomes toxic. I'd rather choose the first. And besides...was it proven that there's enough CO2 (other greenhouse gasses) in the world to actually cause what happened to venus?

there's a toxic CO2?

 

[VirusType2]

And besides...was it proven that there's enough CO2 (other greenhouse gasses) in the world to actually cause what happened to venus?

there's a toxic CO2?

Er - no, the Venus link was just me using scare tactics.

I don't believe that the Earth is expanding, I believe, like most scientists, in continental drift - or tectonic plate movement.


As for CO2, did you read this?

“Business-as-usual” projections foresee a 70% increase in oil demand and a 130% rise in CO2 emissions by 2050. Such an increase in CO2 emissions could raise global average temperatures by 6°C [42.8 degrees Fahrenheit] or more, resulting in significant impacts on all aspects of life and irreversible changes in the natural environment.

A global average increase in temperature of 42.8 degrees is ****ing enormous. As an average, that means in many places it's much higher of an increase. It's not supposed to go up at all, in order to keep things on Earth as they've been for thousands of years. In this relatively short period of time, the temperature has been remarkably stable (not really a normal characteristic of Earth), and has enabled humans to completely thrive and dominate.

With an increase in temperature this large, ice caps will be gone, ocean levels will rise, I mean come on, you've been paying attention guys? Florida? gone. New York? ****ed, etc.. Globally disastrous. Countless species of life will be lost.

And weather patterns will become even stronger and more unpredictable because of the warmer water temperatures. The perfect storm will be threatening all the ****ing time.

But the thing is, humans are stupid in one way - It's like people who smoke - it's a deal with it later, not my problem, I have to die anyway, it might not happen, etc., mentality that is going to be the death of us all.

 

[VirusType2]

But the thing is, humans are stupid in one way - It's like people who smoke - it's a deal with it later, not my problem, I have to die anyway, it might not happen, etc., mentality that is going to be the death of us all.

Gary Larson - The Real Reason Dinosaurs Became Extinct (from about 1980)

I don't know about where you guys live, but it often gets about 100 degrees Fahrenheit here in the summer. It's hot enough to take lives.

Just imagine 150 degrees. It won't even be safe to go outside anymore. We'll be forced to live underground for thousands of years or more. And who knows where it will go from there. These are irreversible changes. It can't be fixed once it's happened. Ice could never form in a temperature that hot. And the sun is expected to become more unstable as it is, with massive solar flares.

We are on the brink here. The ball is in motion, and I don't think we'll be able to stop it.

It's been building and building. Even in 2007:

China is now building about two power stations every week, the top climate change official at the UK Foreign Office, John Ashton, has said.

I think it's become even crazier actually. Like 1 a day. And China is definitely not the only developing country.


Anyway, do what you can guys. We can be heroes.

 

[lame-o]

We can be heroes.

Pull your head out of your ass for a minute, and look at the big picture.

Coastal cities have no right to exist indefinitely. Why does this shock you? Yes it's a tragedy, but it's a fact of life. Sea levels change. The earth is always changing and you cannot expect that in all of humanity's past and future there are no differences. Thousands of years ago Asian tribes walked across a natural bridge to Alaska, before that Neanderthals hunted mammoths and survived the Ice Age. There even used to be a place called Atlantis, apparently. Somewhere down the line, either our children our great-great-great-great-great-great grandchildren will live through climate change and will have to deal with the age old laws of migration and territory. I highly doubt the heat is going to overwhelm us though. We'll adapt as humans always do. Unless you believe that such huge and drastic changes will occur within a time-span of 20 years...

We can try to stop the man-made factor of global warming, but how realistic is that really? Are you going to persuade China and India that they should refrain from industrializing the same way America and England did, because it just isn't cool anymore? I can tell you that they regard that the same way they regard your asshole. Are you going to tell the poor African families that they can't use the conventional (i.e. our) methods of obtaining electricity because they are bad for the environment? Do you know that many of those families are forced to buy solar panels which are only efficient enough to run a refrigerator for about 3 hours a day? Talk about fairness and goodwill, I'm sure they like us a lot. Are you going to force the general population to pay additional taxes to cover the costs of industrial pollution? Even though we as individuals contribute only about 15% of the overall green-house gas emissions.

Most people must have no idea where the **** pollution comes from really. They just throw plastic containers into bins labeled "plastic only" and walk away smiling. Oh and they enjoy begging their country leaders to "please save our planet!" as I love seeing on all the Hopenhagen sites.

We're just trying to make our lives better and possibly make them better for our children/grand children. BUT **** OUR NEIGHBORS AND OUR GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT GRANDCHILDREN AMIRITE? Heroes my ass. More like humans. This won't get fixed, it'll just cause more problems.

By the way: A 6 degree Celsius average temperature rise would be most felt at the poles not "many places", in fact temperatures in most other places wouldn't rise by that much.

 

[PvtRyan]

Er - no, the Venus link was just me using scare tactics.

I don't believe that the Earth is expanding, I believe, like most scientists, in continental drift - or tectonic plate movement.


As for CO2, did you read this?



A global average increase in temperature of 42.8 degrees is ****ing enormous. As an average, that means in many places it's much higher of an increase. It's not supposed to go up at all, in order to keep things on Earth as they've been for thousands of years. In this relatively short period of time, the temperature has been remarkably stable (not really a normal characteristic of Earth), and has enabled humans to completely thrive and dominate.

With an increase in temperature this large, ice caps will be gone, ocean levels will rise, I mean come on, you've been paying attention guys? Florida? gone. New York? ****ed, etc.. Globally disastrous. Countless species of life will be lost.

And weather patterns will become even stronger and more unpredictable because of the warmer water temperatures. The perfect storm will be threatening all the ****ing time.

Except that you fail to mention that estimates swing from 1 C to 6 C. You can't just take the highest figure and run with it.

From the IPCC report:

For the next two decades, a warming of about
0.2°C per decade is projected for a range of SRES
emission scenarios. Even if the concentrations of
all greenhouse gases and aerosols had been kept
constant at year 2000 levels, a further warming of
about 0.1°C per decade would be expected. {10.3,
10.7}

http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/Report/AR4WG1_Print_SPM.pdf

It does NOT say we can expect 6 degrees warming by 2050.

 

[Raziaar]

Hai guyz itz cold this winter Global Warming is hoax lolololol

 

[Eejit]

raise global average temperatures by 6°C [42.8 degrees Fahrenheit]

Fail.

 

[jverne]

Pull your head out of your ass for a minute, and look at the big picture.

Coastal cities have no right to exist indefinitely. Why does this shock you? Yes it's a tragedy, but it's a fact of life. Sea levels change. The earth is always changing and you cannot expect that in all of humanity's past and future there are no differences. Thousands of years ago Asian tribes walked across a natural bridge to Alaska, before that Neanderthals hunted mammoths and survived the Ice Age. There even used to be a place called Atlantis, apparently. Somewhere down the line, either our children our great-great-great-great-great-great grandchildren will live through climate change and will have to deal with the age old laws of migration and territory. I highly doubt the heat is going to overwhelm us though. We'll adapt as humans always do. Unless you believe that such huge and drastic changes will occur within a time-span of 20 years...

We can try to stop the man-made factor of global warming, but how realistic is that really? Are you going to persuade China and India that they should refrain from industrializing the same way America and England did, because it just isn't cool anymore? I can tell you that they regard that the same way they regard your asshole. Are you going to tell the poor African families that they can't use the conventional (i.e. our) methods of obtaining electricity because they are bad for the environment? Do you know that many of those families are forced to buy solar panels which are only efficient enough to run a refrigerator for about 3 hours a day? Talk about fairness and goodwill, I'm sure they like us a lot. Are you going to force the general population to pay additional taxes to cover the costs of industrial pollution? Even though we as individuals contribute only about 15% of the overall green-house gas emissions.

Most people must have no idea where the **** pollution comes from really. They just throw plastic containers into bins labeled "plastic only" and walk away smiling. Oh and they enjoy begging their country leaders to "please save our planet!" as I love seeing on all the Hopenhagen sites.

We're just trying to make our lives better and possibly make them better for our children/grand children. BUT **** OUR NEIGHBORS AND OUR GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT GRANDCHILDREN AMIRITE? Heroes my ass. More like humans. This won't get fixed, it'll just cause more problems.

By the way: A 6 degree Celsius average temperature rise would be most felt at the poles not "many places", in fact temperatures in most other places wouldn't rise by that much.

i partially agree with this.

Er - no, the Venus link was just me using scare tactics.

I don't believe that the Earth is expanding, I believe, like most scientists, in continental drift - or tectonic plate movement.


As for CO2, did you read this?



A global average increase in temperature of 42.8 degrees is ****ing enormous. As an average, that means in many places it's much higher of an increase. It's not supposed to go up at all, in order to keep things on Earth as they've been for thousands of years. In this relatively short period of time, the temperature has been remarkably stable (not really a normal characteristic of Earth), and has enabled humans to completely thrive and dominate.

With an increase in temperature this large, ice caps will be gone, ocean levels will rise, I mean come on, you've been paying attention guys? Florida? gone. New York? ****ed, etc.. Globally disastrous. Countless species of life will be lost.

And weather patterns will become even stronger and more unpredictable because of the warmer water temperatures. The perfect storm will be threatening all the ****ing time.

But the thing is, humans are stupid in one way - It's like people who smoke - it's a deal with it later, not my problem, I have to die anyway, it might not happen, etc., mentality that is going to be the death of us all.

and no i really doubt it will happen that fast as the doomsayers are saying.


in theory the earth would become less habitable which means fewer people would be here to overpopulate everything.
there will be places where it would be still very tolerable to live.
i'm not saying we should disregard CO2 emissions, but i think they are far overrated.
thankfully we can kill two birds with one stone here.

 

[VirusType2]

]Coastal cities have no right to exist indefinitely.

Lol, wow, what kind of statement is this. You have no right to exist indefinitely either, so you shouldn't give a shit about yourself.

Pull my head out of my ass? Regarding what? You're defending what, exactly? A way of life that's exactly the same as mine, but uses antiquated and polluting methods of energy?

And it's not just 'coastal cities' that would be damaged or submerged by rising sea levels. Sea levels could rise 6-25 meters.

"Of the 20 mega-cities in the world, 15 of them are coastal." The study found that 75 percent of people living in the vulnerable low-elevation zone and about 643 million people, or one-tenth of the world's population, live in low lying coastal areas.

:|
http://www.ipsnews.org/news.asp?idnews=37119

Where do you think those people will go when the shit goes down?

And coastal cities are what power the economies of the world, enabling all of us to live a rich way of life.

IMG

...It doesn't take a genius.

Are you going to persuade China and India that they should refrain from industrializing the same way America and England did, because it just isn't cool anymore? I can tell you that they regard that the same way they regard your asshole. Are you going to tell the poor African families that they can't use the conventional (i.e. our) methods of obtaining electricity because they are bad for the environment? Do you know that many of those families are forced to buy solar panels which are only efficient enough to run a refrigerator for about 3 hours a day? Talk about fairness and goodwill, I'm sure they like us a lot. Are you going to force the general population to pay additional taxes to cover the costs of industrial pollution? Even though we as individuals contribute only about 15% of the overall green-house gas emissions.

You keep referring to me, forcing China to do things... I suppose you mean America. Well, they can do it on their own free will, or by means of government diplomacy. Seriously, just because countries are poor or built on the excesses of the past doesn't mean things can't change.

Aug 25, 2009: UK Telegraph - China Powers Ahead as it Seizes the Green Energy Crown from Europe

By 2013, China is expected to become the world's biggest producer of wind energy, the council estimates. Recently, it eclipsed everyone in wind-turbine-making capacity, up from "nothing" five years ago

Within five years, it's expected to be the No. 1 solar market.

China, U.S. Firm Sign Deal for World's Largest Solar Plan

France's nuclear reactors comprise 90 per cent of EDFs capacity

According to figures from the German Wind Energy Association (BWE), 18685 plants with a capacity of 20622 megawatts were in operation at the end of 2006

India ranks fourth in world in wind energy generation?

India, Russia sign deals on nuclear energy, defence?

California enforcing 80% reduction in CO2 emissions

And President Obama, following suit from California for the entire US, to set a course for an 80% reduction by 2050.


You can't say, "oh you guys [USA] burned all that fuel and now you want to say others can't. Hypocrites." What a pathetic cop-out. We didn't know anything about global climate change then. Well, now we do.

Yeah my Mother used to drive a Gigantic ****ing Oldsmobile. So what's fair is fair right? You should drive a gigantic ****ing Oldsmobile too.

Those days are over. Cars used to get 8 or 10 miles per gallon. My car is turbo and can get up to 40MPG. See I don't have to sacrifice anything. I like my car, and would prefer it over a 'lead sled' regardless of climate and energy concerns.

The earth is always changing and you cannot expect that in all of humanity's past and future there are no differences.

I don't:

In this relatively short period of time, the temperature has been remarkably stable (not really a normal characteristic of Earth)

It's been stable. That doesn't mean we should push it for the sake of, "it's going to change one day anyway. Oh, noes, it's futile."

Most people must have no idea where the **** pollution comes from really.

Seriously, you just make shit up as you go along. Anyone over the age of 10 knows about pollution. Are you ****ing stupid or what?


You know, one of the most substantial sacrifices I made? I bought Eclipse panels for my windows. Cost about $30 to cover my two windows. They block 99.9% of light (and solar heat) in the summer, keeping my home cool. In the winter, they block about 80% of cold air from coming in, and trap the heat inside as well.

Wow, these things are too much to ask of mere mortals. $30 investment saves thousands every winter.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=eclipse+window+panel&aq=f&aqi=g10&oq=&fp=b36c7832dbb01be6

We can try to stop the man-made factor of global warming, but how realistic is that really?

You've got the mentality of a follower. Followers shut up and do what they are told.

I'll spend my time giving a shit about the environment, doing what I can, and you can spend your time following mentally unstable conspiracy theorists, and solving 'the mystery' of 9/11.

I expect to still be alive in 2015, and in 2050, even. Hey, maybe I'll have children to care about.

I don't see what your problem is with people wanting to go green, but I'm sure you'll think of something. Like I said, as individuals, there's not a whole lot we can do, but I intend to do what I can. So if you want to do nothing, at least shut the hell up. You're like that guy standing around complaining while everyone else is working.

A 6 degree Celsius average temperature rise would be most felt at the poles not "many places", in fact temperatures in most other places wouldn't rise by that much.

Because the poles don't matter, that's only where all the ice is. And act like the entire earth is disconnected from them. No water currents travel to them and back, carrying anything important, like currents.

"There is supposed to be ice at the North Pole, not open water"

Much global warming research is focused on polar areas, because these are particularly sensitive to climate change.

The temperature difference between equatorial and polar sea waters was minimal during the extremely warm 'Greenhouse world' 60 to 50 million years ago.

So we shouldn't make any efforts, because another 50 or 60 million years of tropical poles is acceptable to you. :hmph:

Maybe buying 'beach front' property in Antarctica isn't for fools anymore.

IMG

What do they teach you in school anyway? See these currents? They are powered by differences in temperature. These currents carry vessels. And without them? Deadly weather patterns; hurricanes; we'd be forced to use significantly more fuel to power vessels intercontinentaly. I don't have a vague idea how much fuel is required to power cargo ships and the like, but I'm sure it's mega-tons, and that's with the assistance of the water currents.

There's more, like food chain disruption, species loss, and food shortages, but I've reached the word limit. YOU Look at the big picture. YOU pull your head out of your ass. Biatchhh

 

[jondy]

Hai guyz itz cold this winter Global Warming is hoax lolololol

I new it!1 n1 cowman

 

[VirusType2]

and no i really doubt it will happen that fast as the doomsayers are saying.

Same here, but quite a bit of that is because of the changes we were making yesterday, today, and tomorrow will lessen the impact.

thankfully we can kill two birds with one stone here.

Exactly.

i'm not saying we should disregard CO2 emissions, but i think they are far overrated.

Frankly, it doesn't matter.

Everyone knows the ice is going. It's so documented that people don't even pay attention anymore. Everyone knows the forests are going. Some to forest fires from dry heat (the increase in frequency blamed on climate change), some to logging, some to farming. Everyone knows that coal is creates pollution / smog. Everyone knows oil is not renewable, the price is going up, that wars are waged over it, that the economies of countries - especially the US - were built on it and completely rely on it. etc, etc

Everyone knows all of these things, so that's why it's important to stop making things worse and make some changes.

Lame-0 acts like using wind, solar, and geo power is a bad thing, or that going green is a stupid fad. Well, for trendy assholes, maybe it is.

I honestly do not understand the resistance to cutting emissions and finding cleaner energy.

 

[Saturos]

I don't mind going green at all, in fact I think it's a sound investment for future generations. However, one thing still eludes me. Can someone tell me why car companies think that hybrids are green? I don't really know much about the industry or anything, but until it's mandatory for car batteries to be recycled, hybrids are seemingly pointless. For a real environmentally friendly vehicle, the automobile and fuel industries needs moar hydrogen fuel cells. The waste by-product is water and I've heard that engines that run on hydrogen don't sound like a f**king pussy ass electric razor.

Hybrid SUVs are like adult diapers, they don't really accomplish anything, but they make people feel better about the mess they're making.

 

[barbarbarbarbar]

Are you guys saying that the Jews did 9/11 ?

 

[jverne]

dickbar, you're back? where were you....

 

[PvtRyan]

I don't mind going green at all, in fact I think it's a sound investment for future generations. However, one thing still eludes me. Can someone tell me why car companies think that hybrids are green? I don't really know much about the industry or anything, but until it's mandatory for car batteries to be recycled, hybrids are seemingly pointless. For a real environmentally friendly vehicle, the automobile and fuel industries needs moar hydrogen fuel cells. The waste by-product is water and I've heard that engines that run on hydrogen don't sound like a f**king pussy ass electric razor.

Cars with hydrogen fuel cells don't burn the hydrogen, but use it to generate electricity by combining hydrogen ions with oxygen ions which produces electrons. I don't think hydrogen is the future, battery powered electric cars are. With batteries, you can produce the power with any power source, solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal, etc. With hydrogen, you gotta produce the hydrogen first, resulting in energy loss and transport the hydrogen, resulting in energy loss. Sure, there is loss when transferring electricity over the wire, but not as much.

 

[barbarbarbarbar]

dickbar, you're back? where were you....

Aww , ain't that cute , you missed me :3

 

[Tagaziel]

Pull your head out of your ass for a minute, and look at the big picture.

Coastal cities have no right to exist indefinitely. Why does this shock you? Yes it's a tragedy, but it's a fact of life. Sea levels change. The earth is always changing and you cannot expect that in all of humanity's past and future there are no differences. Thousands of years ago Asian tribes walked across a natural bridge to Alaska, before that Neanderthals hunted mammoths and survived the Ice Age. There even used to be a place called Atlantis, apparently. Somewhere down the line, either our children our great-great-great-great-great-great grandchildren will live through climate change and will have to deal with the age old laws of migration and territory. I highly doubt the heat is going to overwhelm us though. We'll adapt as humans always do. Unless you believe that such huge and drastic changes will occur within a time-span of 20 years...

We can try to stop the man-made factor of global warming, but how realistic is that really? Are you going to persuade China and India that they should refrain from industrializing the same way America and England did, because it just isn't cool anymore? I can tell you that they regard that the same way they regard your asshole. Are you going to tell the poor African families that they can't use the conventional (i.e. our) methods of obtaining electricity because they are bad for the environment? Do you know that many of those families are forced to buy solar panels which are only efficient enough to run a refrigerator for about 3 hours a day? Talk about fairness and goodwill, I'm sure they like us a lot. Are you going to force the general population to pay additional taxes to cover the costs of industrial pollution? Even though we as individuals contribute only about 15% of the overall green-house gas emissions.

Most people must have no idea where the **** pollution comes from really. They just throw plastic containers into bins labeled "plastic only" and walk away smiling. Oh and they enjoy begging their country leaders to "please save our planet!" as I love seeing on all the Hopenhagen sites.

We're just trying to make our lives better and possibly make them better for our children/grand children. BUT **** OUR NEIGHBORS AND OUR GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT-GREAT GRANDCHILDREN AMIRITE? Heroes my ass. More like humans. This won't get fixed, it'll just cause more problems.

By the way: A 6 degree Celsius average temperature rise would be most felt at the poles not "many places", in fact temperatures in most other places wouldn't rise by that much.

I can see why your nickname contains "lame".

 

[lame-o]

you have no idea how unoriginal that comment is to me, though that doesn't say anything good about me

 

[Sulkdodds]

Do you know that many of those families are forced to buy solar panels which are only efficient enough to run a refrigerator for about 3 hours a day?

I don't know, actually. Do you? Or are you just making it up?

 

[15357]

I find it funny that just 30 years ago, we were all talking about the world becoming too cold, and now we're all talking about it becoming too hot.

Seriously, I don't really get a sense of urgency here.

 

[Saturos]

Cars with hydrogen fuel cells don't burn the hydrogen, but use it to generate electricity by combining hydrogen ions with oxygen ions which produces electrons. I don't think hydrogen is the future, battery powered electric cars are. With batteries, you can produce the power with any power source, solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal, etc. With hydrogen, you gotta produce the hydrogen first, resulting in energy loss and transport the hydrogen, resulting in energy loss. Sure, there is loss when transferring electricity over the wire, but not as much.

Your probably right, but electric cars just sound so...so...gay.

When that times comes, what will men have to strut their manliness other than their penises without the sound of a V8 combustion or a hemi?

 

[jverne]

oh looky look look, finally some attention to the real issue

http://greenlivingideas.com/topics/...g-neutrality-and-reduction/coal-making-stupid

I find it funny that just 30 years ago, we were all talking about the world becoming too cold, and now we're all talking about it becoming too hot.

Seriously, I don't really get a sense of urgency here.

:dozey: dude, really...

Your probably right, but electric cars just sound so...so...gay.

When that times comes, what will men have to strut their manliness other than their penises without the sound of a V8 combustion or a hemi?

don't worry, all the pesticides, pharmaceuticals, hormone disruptor are womanizing men as we speak. see, nature has a way to deal with things.

 

[Sparta]

I find it funny that just 30 years ago, we were all talking about the world becoming too cold, and now we're all talking about it becoming too hot.

Seriously, I don't really get a sense of urgency here.

Consider how far science and technology has come from 1979 to 2009, and now reconsider whether or not its wise to standby your original statement.

Lame-O's argument is akin to arguing that there is no need to call the fire brigade if your house is full of smoke. Just use a gas mask and adapt to the conditions, as it is unrealistic to believe that any form of human intervention can stop a possible fire from burning down your house.

Wish they taught that in schools.

 

[lame-o]

I don't know, actually. Do you? Or are you just making it up?

No I didn't make it up, it was in a documentary about how global warming policies are affecting third world countries.

 

[Põlvamaa]

I have never believed in climate change. And now I believe it even less.

 

[Sulkdodds]

No I didn't make it up, it was in a documentary about how global warming policies are affecting third world countries.

Thanks for the citation + statistical detail there bubs.