Windows 7 Revealed

Iced_Eagle

Iced_Eagle

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Even though I've been running Windows 7 for a while now (that's why I kept telling everyone to wait and see for Win7 for fixes to Vista!), our group hasn't had a chance to get the secret features which MS is revealing today... Holy shit are they ****ing sweet. Transitions with animations and eye candy, and all of the usability to boot!

So, I don't have time to link all youtube videos/image to here, but go to this site and check out the redesigned taskbar and all of the enhancements.

http://www.neowin.net/news/live/08/10/28/introducing-the-windows-7-ui

52_full_windowpreview(1).png


Oh, and if anyone has any questions about Windows 7, I can now answer them publically!

And finally, the best analogy I heard today, which is very true is that "Windows 7 is to Vista, what Windows XP is to Windows 2000"
 
"Windows XP is to Windows 2000" = ? I never used 2000 :p
Just saw the site, 99% gimmicky, only thing I found interesting was the preview file before you open it (like a word file or chart).
 
I'm liking the new taskbar!

So, how much better would you say it is compared to Vista and XP in terms of performance and usability?
 
Looks good. I have one question, it might seem imature but im fully serious about this, as im sure others are so i would be gratefull if you could answer as honestly as you could. How does it handle Porn? Lots of the new features make me cringe because it makes me feel like anyone can find anything i do. The usuall scenario is some guy wathing porn and someone walks in, he quickly mimimizes the porn folder obviously named something misleading, or even nothing at all, but if he accidently hovers the mouse over it everyone can see it, and if he rightclicks his entire recent history is exposed in a split second. The glass visuals are nice, but if you are hiding porn behind a window that you can see through it doesnt really help...Also, can you make invisible folders with no names like on XP? Does media player store your history of porn for everyone to see? and how does that online library work? What happens if you have your porn in there and WOOPS your girlfriend finds it through her computer, and what stops microsoft from going through it? Can they find my secret tabu fetishes?

Small annoying things like that. Also, the obvious question, how does it handle compatability? Specifically, can it run the latest of:

Winamp
3Ds Max
Firefox
Rocketdock
Shredder programs? (like Eraser or ChaosShredder)

Thanks
 
DEATHMASTER said:
"Windows XP is to Windows 2000" = ? I never used 2000 :p
Just saw the site, 99% gimmicky, only thing I found interesting was the preview file before you open it (like a word file or chart).
Click to expand...

Don't hate on it until you try it.

People always say the search box in the start menu is really stupid when I tell people it's a major enhancement, but once you get used to the workflow, it's a dream.

The new SuperBar takes the taskbar and mashes it with Mac OSX Dock and then adds a little flavor of its own for good measure. You can't go wrong.

-Psy-: Win7 is very slick and runs smoother than Vista.

To give you an idea, they demoed Win7 on a 1GHz Atom processor with 1GB RAM (yes, you read that correctly and no typos). With Vista, many people wouldn't dream of running Vista on a machine like that, but with Win7, they've optimized it so much that it's totally possible. They are squeezing out a lot more performance.

Boot times are also very fast (my machine is around 15-20 seconds I believe, and it will get optimized more by release).

For usability, the two nice enhancements are the dragging to edges of screen and show desktop. When you drag a window to the left and right edges it will make it take up half the screen. That way it's really easy to display two applications side by side (IE for research in one, and Wordpad on the other side to take notes). Also if you drag to the top it maximizes. Alternatively, you can also double click the windows titlebar to make it full height but not affect its width.

UAC is also helpful now and not annoying. You can adjust how strict it is with a slider from full UAC (similar to Vista) to nothing (no need to restart/log off anymore!) or to various other settings. Right now, I have it set to only prompt when something is trying to install on my machine. It's very nice sanity check and actually has stopped two sneaky viruses from installing on my machine! :) It does its job well without getting annoying.

Ravioli: I'm not sure how libraries actually work on the networked scenario, as I'm not allowed to give my roommates the Win7 build to see how it all works together. However, there more than likely are settings to change privacy for all of the scenarios you are talking about.

On the topic of app compat, anything that works in Vista works in Win7 and they worked on trying to improve that more. Obviously things like virus scanners and other very low level apps which are heavily tied to the kernel will need to be updated, but they are already working on that.

Another nice little feature is actually the ability to save themes. So you know how everyone always has those "October 2008 Desktops!" threads where everyone shows what they configured Windows to look like? Well now, you can export your entire theme (including the desktop image) and send it to people. The scenario I use it for is I have 3 different themes that I use and just randomly go through them when I feel like it. It's really nice and only one click to do it.
 
Iced_Eagle said:
For usability, the two nice enhancements are the dragging to edges of screen and show desktop. When you drag a window to the left and right edges it will make it take up half the screen. That way it's really easy to display two applications side by side (IE for research in one, and Wordpad on the other side to take notes). Also if you drag to the top it maximizes. Alternatively, you can also double click the windows titlebar to make it full height but not affect its width.
Click to expand...


I take it for granted that you can turn that feature off right? I can already see myself ripping the hair out of my head as i try to move windows out of the way to get something under it as it constantly resizes itself to half the screen etc, i dont like being constricted to the space the monitor gives you, i like draging things outside of the monitor and just reach them whenever i really need them.
 
Iced_Eagle said:
Don't hate on it until you try it.
People always say the search box in the start menu is really stupid when I tell people it's a major enhancement, but once you get used to the workflow, it's a dream.
Click to expand...
Thing is, 90% of those things are already in Vista, I can drag over a video/WMP and it shows the preview. Already have the search thing in the start menu but overall the start menu is ridiculously large so I've changed that to classic anyways. If I need to search for something (not often), I don't mind doing this:

16267010nb2.jpg


I'm going to give it a try especially if it is so well optimized as you say. Hopefully more so for gaming standards.
 
That's a good question, and I don't know the answer for sure as I have never tried.

I'm 99% sure that if there isn't a checkbox to turn it off, you can find a registry key / group policy setting to disable it. It's not exactly user friendly, but if they don't offer an easy option, you can do that.

Note that you can still grab the window by let's say the far right side and drag it all the way to the left. It only activates when you are holding the mouse button on a window title and drag it to the edge. So hold window at the edge and slide them off screen until your cursor is about eight of an inch or so away. It's not annoying though and you can just drag away to return the window to its original state before you did that.
 
DEATHMASTER said:
Thing is, 90% of those things are already in Vista, I can drag over a video/WMP and it shows the preview. Already have the search thing in the start menu but overall the start menu is ridiculously large so I've changed that to classic anyways. If I need to search for something (not often), I don't mind doing this:

I'm going to give it a try especially if it is so well optimized as you say. Hopefully more so for gaming standards.
Click to expand...

Right, a lot of the things were in Vista, and they greatly enhanced it for Win7.

One awesome feature is now the ability to drag and drop items on the taskbar. FINALLY! :cheese:

Also, the Live Preview has gotten an overhaul. Now when you hover over let's say IE8, it will no longer show you the window that you have open, but rather it displays all of the tabs themselves. You can then jump to them, close them right from the live preview. Also, it will make all other apps translucent so you can also get a big preview when the small thumbnail isn't enough.

You can also get easy access to items that you frequently use via JumpLists as MS is calling it.

Let's say you have MS Word on the taskbar, but it's not open yet. You can right click it, and it will show you a list of recently open documents and you can jump right into them. Before you had to open Word and then browse to the documents, but now you can jump straight to any document right away. Nice and streamlined. :D

WMP also is getting the ability to get controlled from its live preview, and a bigger enhancement than the item that just docks in the start menu like today.

The thing is, with InstantSearch, many times I don't actually use it to "Search" I use it to start programs. If I want to open the calculator, I type "calc" enter and in way less time it's already open before you can mouse over to Programs->Accesories->Calculator. Then if I install a program and for some stupid reason the app doesn't get a start menu entry, or I don't know what folder it is under (sometimes they put it under company names and for some obscure software I may not know the company name)... I can just type the program name, irregardless of where it is and hit enter and then it just opens. I could care less of where it is (hell, search even indexes across networks!). It's just really nice to use and much better than popout menu's IMHO (cursor can't fall off the entry you are at)

*Edit* Druckles: Ubuntu 8.10 comes out on Thursday, so give it a try... However, I've seen more than a fair share of people say "F this, I'm using Linux!" only to come back after they realize what a pain Linux is to use many times. Even still, I enjoy the technical nature of Linux and will be joining you in Ubuntu 8.10 when it's released ;) Triple booting Vista/Win7/Linux ftw...
 
OK. Now, for those of you asking what a full-step OS should look like ... This is it.

I'm now sold, Win7 shows off pretty, and it demands what Vista failed to demand; my Attention.

I believe the phrase should be "Windows 7 is to Vista, what Windows XP is to Windows millenium"

Great Post Eagle One.
 
Barney Fife said:
I believe the phrase should be "Windows 7 is to Vista, what Windows XP is to Windows millenium"
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:

The Win2000 -> WinXP analogy is the most correct. The step doesn't seem to be as small as 95 -> 98 but also not as large as a 98 -> XP or XP -> Vista.
 
Just a small note, but I watched the keynote and I have some more details on taskbar.

- If you want, you can disable grouping.
- You can make the icons small, which brings down size of taskbar to what it is today.
- You can also turn back on text as well.

Also, here is a really nice feature and polish on the taskbar that I don't think I posted (it's getting late). To easily tell icons apart and what you are hovering over at the bottom, the background lighting effect will take the color of the most dominant RGB color of the icon. For IE that will be blue, for excel that will be green, etc...

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLZcGDyacHo

For those who want to understand the awesomeness of Aero Peek, watch this demonstraiton: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipg6ltIZRw0
 
How does the touchscreen thingy work? Do you need a special monitor for that? or does it work with any monitor?
 
Iced_Eagle said:
*Edit* Druckles: Ubuntu 8.10 comes out on Thursday, so give it a try... However, I've seen more than a fair share of people say "F this, I'm using Linux!" only to come back after they realize what a pain Linux is to use many times. Even still, I enjoy the technical nature of Linux and will be joining you in Ubuntu 8.10 when it's released ;) Triple booting Vista/Win7/Linux ftw...
Click to expand...

No, I'll probably be using fedora.

There's far too much change that Microsoft's pushing on everyone. I'm a fan of new things, but these videos are starting to put me off. If I'm going to learn a new operating system, I'd much prefer to be learning more about Linux.

I might get Windows 7 one day, but the price is also a huge issue.

Ravioli said:
How does the touchscreen thingy work? Do you need a special monitor for that? or does it work with any monitor?
Click to expand...

Not every monitor is touch-sensitive, so of course it won't work. You can get touch-sensitive panels for your laptops and such, though. They should work.

I can't even bare to imagine a 24" touch-screen monitor...
 
They aren't making you learn much.

For starters, if you don't want the new taskbar, then turn it off. You can make the icons small and turn back on text (and disable grouping if that's what you normally do). Then you won't have the superbar anymore. You will still get jumplists and the enhanced thumbnail preview, but those are just smaller enhancements and are easy to learn (right clickk just gives you more options besides just usual maximize/close/etc and thumbnails are clickable).
 
Who named it the superbar? That's a stupid name - almost as bad as Firefox's 'Awesomebar'.

I like the task bar. It's like Mac & Objectdock. Can you have the taskbar hide like in XP, and become visible when you move the mouse to the bottom of the screen?
 
VirusType2 said:
Who named it the superbar? That's a stupid name - almost as bad as Firefox's 'Awesomebar'.

I like the task bar. It's like Mac & Objectdock. Can you have the taskbar hide like in XP, and become visible when you move the mouse to the bottom of the screen?
Click to expand...

Internal codename.

It's still called the taskbar.

*Edit* Oh, and yes you can. It's just like the taskbar you have today with extra fluff so you can move it to all of the edges, hide, etc.
 
Druckles said:
No, I'll probably be using fedora.

There's far too much change that Microsoft's pushing on everyone. I'm a fan of new things, but these videos are starting to put me off. If I'm going to learn a new operating system, I'd much prefer to be learning more about Linux.
Click to expand...

Oh come on. How long is it going to take you to adapt to these new features? It's not exactly rocket science.
 
Barney Fife said:
So XP->Vista is a large step? Got it.:thumbs:
Click to expand...
Absolutely
Code: 
[FONT=Fixedsys]  [FONT=Courier New]Name      Kernel Version[/FONT]
Windows 3.1     3.1
Windows 95      4.0
Windows 98      4.1
Windows 2000    5.0
Windows XP      5.1
Windows Vista   6.0
Windows 7       6.1[/FONT]
Notice the pattern? XP -> Vista was a big step which is why it had driver and compatibility issues. Vista -> Win7 is a small step, to the point that you can use Vista drivers under Win7.
 
Vista was a big step which is why it had driver and compatibility issues
Click to expand...
Interesting.

I think his point was that a lot of people (perhaps even most people) like 2000 and Xp better than Vista.
 
Iced_Eagle said:
They aren't making you learn much.
Click to expand...

It's not just about the whole learning thing. It's the 'new' that they've brought. Windows 7 really is a completely new operating system compared to XP.

-Psy- said:
Oh come on. How long is it going to take you to adapt to these new features? It's not exactly rocket science.
Click to expand...

It's not about complexity, it's about change of patterns, change of lifestyles and change of habit.

It might not be hard to pick up or use, but it'd take time to pick things up to an extent you're completely familiar with them. After using the same operating system for so many years almost constantly it's not a particularly easy change. It'd be just as hard to move to Linux. If I were so inclined and wealthy, I might even move to OS X.
 
Druckles said:
It's not just about the whole learning thing. It's the 'new' that they've brought. Windows 7 really is a completely new operating system compared to XP.
Click to expand...

How so?

You can make it look like XP down to the theme (if you used the classic theme like I did for XP) if you really want.

It all works the same in everything you do.

It's all very intuitive, and easy for anyone to pick up, which was a main goal for Windows 7.

I mean, the only major changes that you will see if you come from XP will be the Start menu no longer has pop-ups, but stays within the start menu (no longer your mouse will fall off the edge!), there's an awesome search box in the start menu, and now the superbar, which is a glorified quicklaunch with grouping (if you strip it down to its core).

Everything else works the same, just with a different coat of paint on it.

I mean, if you move to let's say Linux or Mac OSX, you will have to learn to even freakin' install applications again ("Why don't my EXE's work?!?!" is a common quote from people who thinks it works like Windows).

Personally, I would rather deal with a few hours learning the new experiences in an already familiar world, instead of going into totally unknown territory.

But hey, go try out the other OS'. I know very few people who move to Linux and don't come back. For OSX, I suppose you've commited a huge amount of money in Apple Tax and you've been convinced by everyone that it's the best, that you force yourself to learn it, but are kicking and screaming inside. Hell, even my parents bought a Mac thinking it was going to be great. Let's just say after a few weeks, they were back on X and Vista.

The choice is up to you, and you have a while to wait until Win7 is released, so feel free to experiment with different OS'.

The best way though to prepare yourself is upgrade to Vista SP1 (and soon SP2).
 
Iced_Eagle said:
How so?

You can make it look like XP down to the theme (if you used the classic theme like I did for XP) if you really want.
Click to expand...

Sure, I use the classic theme in XP, but the differences between that and 2000 were minimal. There were a few layout changes in the directories and a visual change, but that was about it.

This is a change to how the interface is at its heart. To not use the new interface would simply be not accepting the new changes and/or being lazy.

Iced_Eagle said:
It's all very intuitive, and easy for anyone to pick up, which was a main goal for Windows 7.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly what I don't like. The clunky nature of Windows previously made you have to think. It separated the passive-users from the 'clever-users'. It's the reason I like linux so much. I'm not complaining about Windows 7 being 'rubbish' or 'poor', I'm stating that there's far too much change for a lot of users. They're going to resent that. They don't have much choice about accepting it, though.

Iced_Eagle said:
I mean, if you move to let's say Linux or Mac OSX, you will have to learn to even freakin' install applications again ("Why don't my EXE's work?!?!" is a common quote from people who thinks it works like Windows).
Click to expand...

OS X has always been far more intuitive than Windows. If I wanted intuition I probably would have gone towards macs. I like learning new techniques. What I can see from Windows 7 is it wouldn't provide new techniques like Linux would, it would simply hide everything in an extra layer.

Iced_Eagle said:
Personally, I would rather deal with a few hours learning the new experiences in an already familiar world, instead of going into totally unknown territory.
Click to expand...

As above, I'd prefer to find and learn something completely unknown and expand my skills and experience rather than simply reacquaint myself with something posing as something I once new.

Iced_Eagle said:
But hey, go try out the other OS'. I know very few people who move to Linux and don't come back. For OSX, I suppose you've commited a huge amount of money in Apple Tax and you've been convinced by everyone that it's the best, that you force yourself to learn it, but are kicking and screaming inside. Hell, even my parents bought a Mac thinking it was going to be great. Let's just say after a few weeks, they were back on X and Vista.
Click to expand...

I won't seriously go over to Apple. The costs is far too high. From what I've seen of Linux over the past several weeks, I love it. It's actually surprisingly easier than I'd have thought and it's very fun learning something new.

Iced_Eagle said:
The choice is up to you, and you have a while to wait until Win7 is released, so feel free to experiment with different OS'.

The best way though to prepare yourself is upgrade to Vista SP1 (and soon SP2).
Click to expand...

I can't afford it.

I can't seriously give up Windows altogether, though. I'd never live without my games.
 
Druckles said:
The clunky nature of Windows previously made you have to think. It separated the passive-users from the 'clever-users'.
Click to expand...
That's an astonishing viewpoint to take. We're talking about an interface, users shouldn't have to fight an interface or learn tricks. An interface's goal should be to enable users to do what they want to do with a minimum of fuss.

Take this navigational trick from Win 95/98/XP, say you have an exe shortcut but you want to visit it's folder instead of running it. The quickest way to do this is to right hand click on the shortcut, properties, "find target". That's 3 clicks (4 if you include closing the properties window after). In Vista this option is always present on the right click menu making this action 2 very quick clicks.
This streamlining benefits both "passive" and "clever" users alike and the interface is better off as a whole.
 
Druckles is probably coming from the philosophy of "you get what you want if you're smart enough to know how."

tl;dr? "F*** dumbasses"
 
I just wanted to post a correction to myself here.

You will NOT be able to make the Win7 taskbar go back to Vista/XP style. You can turn off grouping and turn off large icons, and that's all one of the speakers mentioned in the Introducing Win7 Dekstop talk.

Oh, and another awesome feature, which hasn't been talked about is that the icons now also show progress.

So when you are downloading a file in IE, or copying a file in Explorer, there will be a visual representation of it in the icon.

For more details on new desktop/start menu which I HIGHLY recommend: http://channel9.msdn.com/pdc2008/PC24/

*Update* Well, also you can turn on text is now confirmed. It only shows for active apps though.

You can also disable grouping, but it's still going to maintain its "groupness" so all Word apps will stick together and when you drag and drop, it will move the Word group and not individual instances.

It looks like we should probably start to appreciate grouping!
 
Is it possible to try it out? Like some kind of public beta?
 
Public beta is out early next year.

Though finding M3 on the internet isn't exactly hard.
 
I hope this time they choose to focus on making a good, stable operating system..or at least make it like windows xp. I'm still using xp, because my laptop came with vista, and it was so bad I installed xp on the laptop within 2 days. As far as linux goes I love the whole free open source movement..but if you want to play games there's no way you can use linux as your primary operating system. Wine is good but it has plenty of bugs and does not work 100% for all games. For example last time I checked you couldn't even play starcraft online, morrowind also was loaded with glitches. I didn't even try the newer games. I just hope microsoft can come through and get it right this time.
 
Win7 at a pre-beta stage, internally by many is considered to be at basically a Release Candidate stage. They still have many more months of polish and feedback to get though, which is why it's going to be great.

They are also focusing heavily on the small touches called "delighters". Thing like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLZcGDyacHo

Such small touches, but they are really cool in action. That entire level of polish is being put over the entire OS.

Everyone I know who has used Windows 7 is really excited. Personally, I think this is probably one of their best releases yet.
 
Seems kind of gimmicky in my opinion...it'll probably mean more processes running and a slower overall operating system like vista.
 
Zeus said:
Seems kind of gimmicky in my opinion...it'll probably mean more processes running and a slower overall operating system like vista.
Click to expand...

DWM was cut by 50%, and obviously all of it gets disabled when in background.

It's faster than Vista and at least on par with XP, if not faster (due to program caching, etc).

I played CSS on it, and got higher framerates than in XP.
 
Exactly how i thought it would turn out ,im still a bit impressed but i am also anxious to see how it turns out.
 
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