World: not U.S. role to spread democracy

[K e r b e r o s]

I disagree that the United States should be a world police; but lets ask the world this then -- do we need World Polices?

 

[CadetFrench]

After we got Saddam out of power. What would you all have us do? Have a vote to see what kind of govt they wanted? i.e.- monarch, democracy, parlimentary, another dictatorship. Oh wait- if we had a vote for that then that would be democratic. Maybe we should have just left them with no govt. What kind of govt were we supposed to set up besides democracy? Everyone is like, you cant push democracy on Iraq! Wtf would you do? Our own govt is democracy, we know how it works, of course we're gonna f*cking set up their new govt as democracy. We couldnt have just been like, "Up! Saddam is out of power, see ya!! Good luck setting up a new government!!"

 

[gh0st]

you pick and choose which countries are worth humanitarian aid ..you ignored rwanda, sudan, you caused Haiti, you caused panama, honduras, niceragua, el salvador the list goes on and on and on and on

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA Oh my this is a laugh. WE ignored it? I dont recall your precious international community doing anything. In your view, why didnt the "world" (which conveniently consists of France, Germany, and other liberal European powers) make any effort to correct these? Oh - cause their pansies. We pick which countries recieve our assistance, you pick only yourselves.

Fact is, all that is essential for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. When the US becomes emasculated like you seem to want it to be, and we cower in our corner getting airplanes rammed into our buildings, communists are running rampant in Asia, rogue states are unchecked by the EU's "power", whatever this is will seem like paradise. It isnt Americas destiny to spread Democracy, how people govern themselves shouldnt be our concern. Spreading freedom however is our duty, simply because no other nation has the resources or the power to do so. Unless you want China spreading freedom, which I dont think you do.

 

[CptStern]

After we got Saddam out of power. What would you all have us do? Have a vote to see what kind of govt they wanted? i.e.- monarch, democracy, parlimentary, another dictatorship. Oh wait- if we had a vote for that then that would be democratic. Maybe we should have just left them with no govt. What kind of govt were we supposed to set up besides democracy? Everyone is like, you cant push democracy on Iraq! Wtf would you do? Our own govt is democracy, we know how it works, of course we're gonna f*cking set up their new govt as democracy. We couldnt have just been like, "Up! Saddam is out of power, see ya!! Good luck setting up a new government!!"

you want to try answering how you could have been part of that thread? if you wont provide an answer I can always ask a mod to see if you have dual accounts, a big no-no here

 

[CadetFrench]

In my last life.

 

[CptStern]

alright since you wont provide who you were in your "last life" I'll ask a mod

 

[CadetFrench]

They wont be able to tell you.

 

[CptStern]

well since you've already admitted it they wont have to

 

[CadetFrench]

Huh? You said you were gonna ask a mode who I used to be. Why wouldnt u have to ask them, I havent admitted anything.

 

[gh0st]

alright since you wont provide who you were in your "last life" I'll ask a mod

http://users.burgoyne.com/~jtod/crying baby.jpg :rolling: tr0n wouldnt be happy stern, its none of your business who people are.

 

[CptStern]

Huh? You said you were gonna ask a mode who I used to be. Why wouldnt u have to ask them, I havent admitted anything.

it's called "reading between the lines"


you said you were a major player in that thread ..you admitted you were a member under a different name ...I probably know who you are dont I?

 

[CptStern]

http://users.burgoyne.com/~jtod/crying baby.jpg :rolling: tr0n wouldnt be happy stern, its none of your business who people are.

mind your own business gh0st ..as a staff member of HL2.net you have a vested interest that every member follow the rules

 

[CadetFrench]

Oh, I dunno if you do or not.

 

[CptStern]

try me

 

[gh0st]

mind your own business gh0st ..as a staff member of HL2.net you have a vested interest that every member follow the rules

Hahahah you are telling me to mind my business? Why dont you mind your business for a change, dont interrogate him about things you dont know. If he has 2 accounts, a mod will deal with it. You dont need to get in his grill about it. And for the last time Im not a staff member, I left.

 

[The Monkey]

mind your own business gh0st ..as a staff member of HL2.net you have a vested interest that every member follow the rules

He's not a staff-member anymore.

 

[CptStern]

heh, I noticed

 

[gh0st]

lets start arguing again, Stern lets see your response to my post (#44)

on an unrelated note, does anyone else think it would be better if we were in a chat room instead of this forum format? Someone should host one once and awhile.

 

[CptStern]

lets start arguing again, Stern lets see your response to my post (#44)

on an unrelated note, does anyone else think it would be better if we were in a chat room instead of this forum format? Someone should host one once and awhile.

no thanks, you're not much of a challenge, especially if you wont concede an inch even though I give you a mile of evidence

 

[CadetFrench]

Yeah we are using a lot of posts that should be down through PMs. And btw I do not have dual accounts.

 

[MJB006]

Cpt Stern i am curious as to your credentials to talk about this topic. What education do you have on the topic of the American political system or our method and extent of foreign policy? Granted everyone is entitleted to their own opinion however your opinion seems to have no solid evidence behind it.

 

[^Ben]

Oh dear, I would suggest you read through some of his posts he has backed up his opnion many a time.

 

[CptStern]

Yeah we are using a lot of posts that should be down through PMs. And btw I do not have dual accounts.

ok I'm inclined to believe you, but I think for the record you should probably explain how you were part of a discussion befroe you became a member


MJB006: I have over 6000+ posts (god I hate the post count thingy) ..pick a few

 

[MJB006]

im sure he probably has defended himself well in the past but i would appriciate just a quick summary so i can get up to speed. Im new (obviuosly)

 

[CptStern]

why is it that in every single thread on american politics I seem to be on trial?

 

[MJB006]

i have a large object in my pants... so what ....6000 posts, and many which i have been told are about what you read on the internet, i dont care about how much time you spend doing this i just want a quick arguement of your position. Im not asking for much here

 

[gh0st]

no thanks, you're not much of a challenge, especially if you wont concede an inch even though I give you a mile of evidence

A mile? I've seen about a nanometer of irrelevant America bashing, actually.

How about this. You say the US should have stopped those dictators and genocide. Yet if we would have youd jump all over us, accuse us of crimes, youd curse us, blah blah blah. I can only speculate as to what youd say if Europe (AKA 'the world' in your case) helped one of those nations. I speculate becuase so far, they havent done shit.

Did you ever consider that I dont budge when Im bombarded with useless data from google that I could find myself. No one else does it but you stern, its not an effective method of argument.

 

[CptStern]

yes you are ..this thread isnt about me ...do the research yourself ...I've always backed my statements with mulitple sources


"and many which i have been told are about what you read on the internet"


care to explain that statement?


now can we please get back on topic? I'm really getting tired of the constant need to shift blame towards yours truely for reporting facts

 

[MJB006]

if you have such good backing you would be able to back it up now with a brief overview

 

[CptStern]

now can we please get back on topic? I'm really getting tired of the constant need to shift blame towards yours truely for reporting facts

 

[gh0st]

now can we please get back on topic? I'm really getting tired of the constant need to shift blame towards yours truely for reporting facts

My mommy told me years ago that if you ignored something it will go away. How about you do that instead of thrashing about like a 8 year old.

 

[The Monkey]

It's strange...even though most of us here are liberals or socialists it always seems like it's Stern alone that is debating against the right-wings.

I wish I could join you, but I dont know the facts.

 

[gh0st]

I wish I could join you, but I dont know the facts.

Its easy. Go to google, type in "iraq war us crimes" and copy and paste. Doesnt matter if you have a spine or an opinion, Socialist World Daily will make it for you.

 

[CptStern]

My mommy told me years ago that if you ignored something it will go away. How about you do that instead of thrashing about like a 8 year old.

alright consider yourself ignored, thanks for the tip

the_monkey: hey I appreciate the support , that's good enough

 

[^Ben]

I think most people don't bother "debating" because as soon as one side of the argument senses it's losing it will start "arguing" and inevitably bring a lock on the thread.

 

[kmack]

Spreading Democracy is too much like our Imperialistic past, under the same guise we used back then. (The Phillipines and Cuba come to mind.). Having someone else force their government upon another is something the foundation of our country is based on. When we rebelled agains the monarchy of England we did so for Liberty and Democracy. Now as we force our Democracy upon other countries, rebellion is impossible to avoid. (Think Che Guavara and Cuba). It is not our right, nor our responsibility to spread our influence on the world. We should limit ourselves to humanitarian missions, like the U.N. It is when we start blatantly disobeying the U.N. that we upset the world, and begin unjustifiable action. Other countries (including portions of the ones we are influencing) are bound to frown upon this. And I think that the U.S. itself is frowning upon it (at least half, and that number is climbing each longer we spend in Iraq, each Soldier who dies there, each billion dollars we spend there, the war loses support.) and I don't know how much longer we will stand for it.

 

[gh0st]

Spreading Democracy is too much like our Imperialistic past, under the same guise we used back then. (The Phillipines and Cuba come to mind.). Having someone else force their government upon another is something the foundation of our country is based on. When we rebelled agains the monarchy of England we did so for Liberty and Democracy. Now as we force our Democracy upon other countries, rebellion is impossible to avoid. (Think Che Guavara and Cuba). It is not our right, nor our responsibility to spread our influence on the world. We should limit ourselves to humanitarian missions, like the U.N. It is when we start blatantly disobeying the U.N. that we upset the world, and begin unjustifiable action. Other countries (including portions of the ones we are influencing) are bound to frown upon this. And I think that the U.S. itself is frowning upon it (at least half, and that number is climbing each longer we spend in Iraq, each Soldier who dies there, each billion dollars we spend there, the war loses support.) and I don't know how much longer we will stand for it.

Cuba, cuba. I'll go easy on you since you have the history of cuba grossly wrong. As I recall cuba was liberated (by Teddy Roosevelt no less ) by the United States. Only after we granted them their freedom (big mistake, for them) did they turn into the communist hypocrites they are now. Che Guevara is a communist, nothing more, and he worked for Castro, executing innocent people as they went. Thats not freedom. The philipines I'm inclined to agree with, but there were economic reasons for taking them, though I recall us granting them their freedom, such as a gateway to trade with Asia - a wise inclination by our leaders of the time. Manifest destiny was still 'in' at this point, and the Monroe Doctrine (ie, kicking europe out of the western hemisphere) was still in effect, which is another reason for us taking cuba over, and fighting with the spanish. However, I would argue you couldnt say this was very imperialistic. The imperialism of European powers of old was much greater, and MUCH more harmful. Even into the 20th century when Britain took over parts of the middle east after ww1, harvesting oil for their own benefit, Europes control of foreign soil has been devastating.

If we limit ourselves to humanitarian missions, terror thrives. Simple as that.

 

[^Ben]

"If we limit ourselves to humanitarian missions, terror thrives. Simple as that."

I disagree with that, the reason terror exists in it's current form is because we have been messing with other countrys, which inturn provides an avenue for creating terrorism and recruting terrorists. We are seeing this with Iraq.

Terrorists from the middle east view the coalitions attacking of Iraq as the first step to try and take out the middle east and wipe out their way of life and destroy their religion.

 

[gh0st]

I disagree with that, the reason terror exists in it's current form is because we have been messing with other countrys, which inturn provides an avenue for creating terrorism and recruting terrorists. We are seeing this with Iraq.

Terrorists from the middle east view the coalitions attacking of Iraq as the first step to try and take out the middle east and wipe out their way of life and destroy their religion.

When we do not react, and when we roll over and let terrorists kick us in the stomach, cowardly kill our civilians and our allies civilians, they win. Dont you see that? If we resort to humanitarian missions, what do you think will happen to our humanitarians? You think OBL will welcome them with open arms, let them teach their malnurished, uneducated, suffering civilians how to read and write? Hell no, they will suicide bomb our humanitarians, they will blow up their fellow citizens, they will destroy because thats all they know how to do.

 

[^Ben]

But why do they want to kick us in the first place?

It's for things we have done.