Xbox 360

[OCybrManO]

but that's my point ..it's simplified

Hey! Stop stealing my points!

The only difference is that I'm saying it's because of the physical limitations of the interface... and you seem to be saying it's because the developers have to dumb it down for the average gamer. That's why I gave examples of popular types of console games with a lot of the same kinds of depth and strategy as used in RTS games, just without the "real-time" aspect (you can't manage a lot of information/commands in real-time with just a controller). Then, there's always the case of that mech game, "Steel Battalion." It was $200, the controller it came with was massive and complex, and the gameplay was equally complex and unforgiving... yet it sold better than anyone expected. Things like that are why I think it's the controller's fault.

So, we agree that most games get simplified for consoles. We just disagree on the reasons.

 

[CptStern]

Hey! Stop stealing my points!

The only difference is that I'm saying it's because of the physical limitations of the interface... and you seem to be saying it's because the developers have to dumb it down for the average gamer. That's why I gave examples of popular types of console games with a lot of the same kinds of depth and strategy as used in RTS games, just without the "real-time" aspect (you can't manage a lot of information/commands in real-time with just a controller).

and I agreed with you ...and no I didnt steal your point, no point stealer am I ..you borrowed MY point ..oh borrower of points

Then, there's always the case of that mech game, "Steel Battalion." It was $200, the controller it came with was massive and complex, and the gameplay was equally complex and unforgiving... yet it sold better than anyone expected. Things like that are why I think it's the controller's fault.

ya but that game was more than likely bought by mostly hardcore gamers ...I mean what casual gamer would shell out $200 for a single game?

So, we agree that most games get simplified for consoles. We just disagree on the reasons.

great taste, less filling!!!

 

[Warbie]

like it or not console games are usually dumbed down versions of their pc counterparts

oh come on

You mean the very small no. of games that are ported from the pc to consoles. The vast majority of console titles (and virtualy every single one that is worth owning) never appear on the pc (unless they're emulated years later)

whereas you have to be a bit more sophisticated a gamer to play pc games

What absolute twoddle Having to download patches doesn't make anyone more sophisticated (it's just hassle)

 

[OCybrManO]

great taste, less filling!!!

:x I just had a horrible mental image because of that. I wish there was a puking smilie.

 

[CptStern]

oh come on

You mean the very small no. of games that are ported from the pc to consoles. The vast majority of console titles (and virtualy every single one that is worth owning) never appear on the pc (unless they're emulated years later)

that is now the case but during this console cycle games started off as pc games to be ported as console games ...anyone remember the dreadful RTCW xbox version? that was dumbed down with a capital "D"

What absolute twoddle

now dont be taking that out of context ..I meant when updating, tweaking, and installing mods ..it requires more sophistication than just popping in a game disk and turning your console on



dont get me wrong consoles as I;ve stated before have their place ...but I prefer pc games because to me they are more in-depth than their console counterparts ...not just ports but rather whole genres

 

[CptStern]

:x I just had a horrible mental image because of that. I wish there was a puking smilie.

now, now, get your mind outta the gutter :E

 

[Gargantou]

Nope, but UT2007 on PC vs UT2007 on 360??? PFFFT.

No I'm not a PC fanboy, I'll be buying a 360 and PS3 just as i bought an xbox and PS2. But the fact of the matter is, until consoles BECOME PC's they won't have comparable graphics.

Don't forget you're playing on TV's, which are mostly 640x480. And don't use the 360 can be hooked up to a monitor defense, because no one will and you damned well know that.

Actually, with say the Dreamcast/PS2, they kicked the PCs ass graphic-wise for the first year they were released, the PC's advantage is the fact that it's upgradeable.
And also, do remember, consoles can do more than PCs with their spec, because consoles don't have say background utilities running, iirc the XB has a GF3 graphics card and a 700Mhz processor, and it can still make some beautiful games.
And about the TV res, that's the reason Microsoft(And Sony) are trying to encourage people to get HDTVs.
There is a HUGE difference between say a HDTV movie running on 1080i(1920x1080) and a DVD which runs at 480p(720x480).

 

[DreadLord]

Actually, with say the Dreamcast/PS2, they kicked the PCs ass graphic-wise for the first year they were released, the PC's advantage is the fact that it's upgradeable.
And also, do remember, consoles can do more than PCs with their spec, because consoles don't have say background utilities running, iirc the XB has a GF3 graphics card and a 700Mhz processor, and it can still make some beautiful games.
And about the TV res, that's the reason Microsoft(And Sony) are trying to encourage people to get HDTVs.
There is a HUGE difference between say a HDTV movie running on 1080i(1920x1080) and a DVD which runs at 480p(720x480).

I still don't believe that's true at all. The PS2 may have kicked your average PC's ass, but whats inside a console is always released for a PC first, I bought a PS2 in Florida on release day, and i can guarantee you the graphics were no better than what I had on PC at the time. Consoles are for children.

 

[Garfield_]

I still don't believe that's true at all. The PS2 may have kicked your average PC's ass, but whats inside a console is always released for a PC first, I bought a PS2 in Florida on release day, and i can guarantee you the graphics were no better than what I had on PC at the time. Consoles are for children.

Children ? that is the most stupid thing ive seen in this thread.
But you may be right, everyone playing video games have some childness left inside

 

[Icewolf717]

x360 video card = R500 from ATI
R520 will release for PC later this year , and R580 will release next year, as well as Geforce 8.
looks like PC will be pwn this next gen consoles very fast ( talking about the graphics )

well, for the people that can afford that shit

 

[Warbie]

It's silly comparing consoles and pcs spec for spec. Being a dedicated gaming machine, you get so much more out of your hardware with a console. My aging GC/PS2/Xbox are still matching the visuals i'm getting on my x800 xtpe.

And let's stop this 'console games are simple compared to pc games' rubbish.

Any gamer who wants to play the very best video games will end up with consoles and a reasonably up to date pc.

 

[DreadLord]

well, for the people that can afford that shit

Which is what we're discussing.

And yes, consoles are for children.

 

[destrukt]

and computers are for work only.

 

[Gargantou]

It's funny that RTSes actually started on the consoles.. what was that games name.. I think it was.. hmm.. Herzog Zwei?

 

[destrukt]

well, depends who you ask.

some people will say herzog, than dune ii on pc but others will say stonkers was before herzog.

i give full credit to westwood though, for making rts a big hit.

 

[Gargantou]

Yeah I guess, Herzog might've been the first but it was Westwood that made RTS the popular genre that it is today.

 

[Warbie]

And yes, consoles are for children.

Temperature rising. Vision blurring. Rage...taking...over...

*Takes deep breaths*

Rage...subsiding. Pulse...slowing. Anger fading.

 

[Gargantou]

Temperature rising. Vision blurring. Rage...taking...over...

*Takes deep breaths*

Rage...subsiding. Pulse...slowing. Anger fading.

*Gives Warbie a shot of Valium*
Everything's just fiiiine...

 

[ailevation]

:dozey: Just get both, enjoy all games. Sheeeit.

Should be arguing whether to get the Xbox 360,PS3, or Revolution

Or to get the 7800 or ATI's next card.

But, anyways... what's powering the console's graphics?

Face it, consoles are really becoming 'dumbed-downed PC's'

 

[Warbie]

Why do you think that?

I see nothing dumbed down about consoles and the games that appear on them (other than the very few obvious and unrepresentative examples Mr Stern picked up on) There are actually more engrossing console titles, that entertain on more levels, than there are on the pc (imo)

Everyone seems to skip by the fact that the pc caters for a very small variety of games (rts, mmo, fps) For all the other genres (adventure, sport, driving, platform, beatemup, arcade, party, puzzle, single player rpg etc etc) consoles pretty much have a monopoly.

Consoles also offer a far more social gaming experience (and no, playing pc games over comms doesn't count )

The pc certainly excels in what it does do, but there's so much else to this great hobby. I don't understand how any gamer can choose to miss out on so many great games.

 

[Axyon]

x360 video card = R500 from ATI
R520 will release for PC later this year , and R580 will release next year, as well as Geforce 8.
looks like PC will be pwn this next gen consoles very fast ( talking about the graphics )

This is incorrect, actually. The x360 GPU is a custom set that easily surpasses the R500, and has recently seen rumours saying it may be more powerful than the R580 architecture. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[ailevation]

I am talking about the technical aspects of things. The hardware and stuff.

Now, consoles are equally fun if not more fun than PC's. Consoles has a fair share of incredible titles. Of course both has its pro's and con's. Get both to eliminate that from yourself; best of both worlds!

 

[DreadLord]

Everyone seems to skip by the fact that the pc caters for a very small variety of games (rts, mmo, fps) For all the other genres (adventure, sport, driving, platform, beatemup, arcade, party, puzzle, single player rpg etc etc) consoles pretty much have a monopoly.

Wow, nice list you have there. Unfortunately, "beatemup, party, and platform" all fall under your other categories. And single player RPG's are better on PC IMO. I'll give you driving, as sterring etc.. with keyboard and mouse is terrible, and sport probably, although I prefer PC for it, but i see where a controller is handy. Arcade.. no, that's for PSP and DS thank you. And no, consoles don't have a monopoly, they simply control the children.

 

[Warbie]

Unfortunately, "beatemup, party, and platform" all fall under your other categories

eh? What categories? All of those are seperate genres. Of course, there is some cross-over in games - which is a good thing. (by party I mean titles like Samba De Amigo, DDR, Donkey Konga, Mario Party and worms etc. Platform is obvious, as are beatemups)

Also, arcade games on the PSP and DS? I think you'll find it's on the PS2 that 'arcade' games are flourishing (and on the DC before it)

I honestly didn't understand much of your post, especially the last sentence.

//edit

As for single player rpgs - it's been quite a while since there's been a decent single player rpg on the pc (Fallout, Baldurs Gate, Planescape etc were years ago) The ones there have been (KOTOR) were console titles first. Consoles, on the other hand, have had a great many decent rpgs released recently. Disgaea springs to mind, as does Tales of Symphonia, Jade Empire ... (the list goes on)

 

[OCybrManO]

Define "children." The median age (meaning there are equal numbers of people that fall on each side of that age) of a console gamer has been shown to be about 23 and rising... as the "gaming generation" gets older. Unless you define "child" as "hasn't had a mid-life crisis yet" you're misinformed.

 

[poseyjmac]

:dozey: Just get both, enjoy all games. Sheeeit.

Should be arguing whether to get the Xbox 360,PS3, or Revolution

Or to get the 7800 or ATI's next card.

But, anyways... what's powering the console's graphics?

Face it, consoles are really becoming 'dumbed-downed PC's'

dumbed-down? i think the term 'streamlined' fits better since theres really nothing dumb about consoles.

 

[DreadLord]

dumbed-down? i think the term 'streamlined' fits better since theres really nothing dumb about consoles.

Everything's dumb about consoles, and they are always dumbed down. Maybe not for the first three or four months after a consoles release, but after that they are dumbed down completely.

 

[poseyjmac]

Everything's dumb about consoles

right...chalk up another blind pc gaming fanboy to the list. the fact that your PC is godly also attributes to pc gaming fanboyitis, so its not all your fault.

 

[Warbie]

Everything's dumb about consoles, and they are always dumbed down. Maybe not for the first three or four months after a consoles release, but after that they are dumbed down completely.

That's quite possiby the most ridiculous post i've read on a video game forum (and that's including the official Bungie forums )

What do you actually mean by 'dumbed down'? And what was that last sentence meant to mean?? :rolling:

 

[ailevation]

Dumbed-down as in, it has everything a PC would. But, it cannot utilize everything to the fullest potential. Yeah, a console have games that are well optimized for consoles. But look at all the things being implemented into console's these days. It's all 'dumbed-down'- such as storage, there's no complexities that you have to worry about with HD's in a console... it's real straightforward, plus no flexibility. As in PC's people are modding their shit, doing stuff differently.

Think of it as Utopian PC with one main role. Something like a MAC? A gaming-only MAC with no user-interface that allows you to change things around.

Think about it, console evolution would just become to be PC's.

This is ONLY stating about the technicals, not fun-factors or quality games or whatever social aspects.

Not only consoles are 'dumbed-downed' same goes to cell phones or PDA's and lotta other stuff. Concepts are being taken from PC's.

 

[Warbie]

Fair enough. I get the impression most people are calling the games dumbed down, though.

I agree that the pc is capable of everything a console can do. But all these creative and varied games/peripherals do not appear on the pc, they never have. In the context of gaming, consoles are realising what pcs have the potential to achieve, yet never quite do.

 

[Gargantou]

Dumbed-down as in, it has everything a PC would. But, it cannot utilize everything to the fullest potential. Yeah, a console have games that are well optimized for consoles. But look at all the things being implemented into console's these days. It's all 'dumbed-down'- such as storage, there's no complexities that you have to worry about with HD's in a console... it's real straightforward, plus no flexibility. As in PC's people are modding their shit, doing stuff differently.

You are aware that it's not that hard to get say Linux running on the PS2 if you've modded the console, right?
There're also quiet a few people doing homebrew PS2 games that you can play if you have it shipped, but yes I do agree that it's nowhere near as flexible as a Personal Computer.