XM8, retire everything elese, this things a beast.

[nw909]

Dead people are cool.

Mr. T is cool, but alas, not dead.

Mr. T with a PhallusM8, that would be cool.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

it can be, depends upon the quality of the weapon and more importantly the ammunition.

As a general rule, armies and fighters armed with AK's are less trained and practice spray and pray. They don't tend to last long. Hence the need for AK's. They never take the time to clean them and such.

 

[outpost]

Mr. T is cool, but alas, not dead.

Mr. T with a PhallusM8, that would be cool.

Can I join the GLOGLEBAG ARMY?

 

[CptStern]

lol sorry qckbeam i just dont share the same view on guns as u do. guns are around and their not goin anywhere :/ so it's better to get used to it and own one to protect ur self then to be (not tryin to sound mean) ignorant and get shot by one :O i have no problem w/ guns but maybe thats b/c i shot my first one at the age of 8 :/

that's just disturbing ...i'm twice your age and i've never seen a handgun, never been shot by one either

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

that's just disturbing ...i'm twice your age and i've never seen a handgun, never been shot by one either

I think he was saying he first shot at age 8, not was shot at then.

And that is a good age to teach gun safety, use, etc. I shot my first rifles then, a couple years later my first shotgun. Hehe, I remember the bruise from the recoil because I hadn't completely gotten used to positioning it perfectly for my fit.

 

[nw909]

Can I join the GLOGLEBAG ARMY?

Yessir.

 

[clarky003]

i dont care, id rather die than kill someone fending for my life,

its a mentality that alot of us are moving out away from thankfully. The very problem starts when you think you need a gun to be safe, hell your not exactley gonna shoot at a car if its just about to run you over.

I live in England , yes we have crime, some illegal guns, but gun crime is so insignificant over here, compared to the US.. it's quite obvious that it works well having no guns,

I dont have go out into the world everyday in that fear/paranoia eating away at my mind ...., 'oh Noes I might get shot today.. . lucky i got my gunZ, so I can shootZ my neibour if he gets drunk and goes mad, or the neibourHood gang.

what a fantastic way to solve a problem,, which it obviously is..

 

[KidRock]

that thing is awesome.. gotta get me one.

i dont care, id rather die than kill someone fending for my life,

its a mentality that alot of us are moving out away from thankfully. The very problem starts when you think you need a gun to be safe, hell your not exactley gonna shoot at a car if its just about to run you over.

I live in England , yes we have crime, some illegal guns, but gun crime is so insignificant over here, compared to the US.. it's quite obvious that it works well having no guns,

I dont have go out into the world everyday in that fear/paranoia eating away at my mind ...., 'oh Noes I might get shot today.. . lucky i got my gunZ, so I can shootZ my neibour if he gets drunk and goes mad, or the neibourHood gang.

what a fantastic way to solve a problem,, which it obviously is..

you watch boys N the hood to much.. its not like that at all in america. except for maybe Compton and South Central. Only in the ghettos that stuff happens. I live in New England and we have little if any gun violence here.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

i dont care, id rather die than kill someone fending for my life,

its a mentality that alot of us are moving out away from thankfully. The very problem starts when you think you need a gun to be safe, hell your not exactley gonna shoot at a car if its just about to run you over.

I live in England , yes we have crime, some illegal guns, but gun crime is so insignificant over here, compared to the US.. it's quite obvious that it works well having no guns,

I dont have go out into the world everyday in that fear/paranoia eating away at my mind ...., 'oh Noes I might get shot today.. . lucky i got my gunZ, so I can shootZ my neibour if he gets drunk and goes mad, or the neibourHood gang.

what a fantastic way to solve a problem,, which it obviously is..

Perhaps you'd rather die than shoot an attacker dead, but I would kill him before he could harm my family or I.

 

[IrishPunk]

Pretty sick weapon system. Saw it on Mail Call a couple weeks ago. The M16 and M14 are both great rifles, but are becoming out of date.

 

[clarky003]

Perhaps you'd rather die than shoot an attacker dead, but I would kill him before he could harm my family or I.

:O guess that justify's the people who die every year needlessly from gun related crime, accident's , and incident's then.

the US G want to police the world, why not start with your own country , if they like clamping down on terror, start in your own land.. heck Georgey is so efficient, he could police the whole country , abolish guns, and reduce the death tolls by hundreds of thousands.

but no, he goes out to Iraq to strike economy deals, to build a 40 billion dollar oil pipeline from the caspian sea, whilst propaganda carried the weight of Terrorist claims, playing on everyones weakness , fear the one thing most people are so full of these day's , if i was going to scare you into submission for the hidden goal of oil in Iraq, id do the same thing. (but im your president you wont question me), ., priority of avengence..? addressing the real problem...? who knows , he does

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

:O guess that justify's the people who die every year needlessly from gun related crime, accident's , and incident's then.

the US G want to police the world, why not start with your own country , if they like clamping down on terror, start in your own land.. heck Georgey is so efficient, he could police the whole country , abolish guns, and reduce the death tolls by hundreds of thousands.

but no, he goes out to Iraq to strike economy deals, to build a 40 billion dollar pipeline from the caspian sea..,

* Right-to-carry laws require law enforcement agencies to issue handgun permits to all qualified applicants. Qualifications include criteria such as age, a clean criminal record, and completing a firearm safety course.

* In 1986, nine states had right-to-carry laws.

* As of 1998, 31 states have right-to-carry laws, and about half the U.S. population lives in these states.

* In 1996, Dr. John R. Lott of the University of Chicago Law School published the results of a crime study conducted using FBI data for all 3,045 U.S. counties from 1977 to 1992.

* The study sought to answer the question, "What happens to crime when states adopt right-to-carry laws?"

* Between 1977 and 1992, 10 states adopted right-to-carry laws. Dr. Lott's study found that the implementation of these laws created:
-- no change in suicide rates,
-- a .5% rise in accidental firearm deaths,
-- a 5% decline in rapes,
-- a 7% decline in aggravated assaults,
-- and an 8% decline in murder

for the 10 states that adopted these laws between 1977 and 1992.
* Using 1995 numbers, this amounts to:

-- 1 more accidental gun death,
-- 316 less murders,
-- 939 less rapes,
-- and 14,702 less aggravated assaults

in these 10 states annually.

Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. Between 1987 and 1996, these changes occurred:
Florida | United States
homicide rate -36% | -.4%
firearm homicide rate -37% | +15%
handgun homicide rate -41% | +24%


I suggest you look at some more of the facts.

http://www.justfacts.com/gun_control.htm

 

[clarky003]

im talking about overall lives that could be saved by guns not being there in the first place...

not the bare statistic's, they could always be better, or get worse, my point , if no one had a gun and it was military and justice system restricted there wouldnt be any need for these extensive statistic's. I mean, they might aswell list who shot who.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

im talking about overall lives that could be saved by guns not being there in the first place...

not the bare statistic's, they could always be better, or get worse, my point , if no one had a gun. and it was military and justice system resticted there wouldnt be any need for these statistic's.

You'd have to go back in time to enforce that though. It's literally impossible to work now. A criminal is not going to turn in his weapons when you say "okay, everyone deposit firearms at this location by law."

As the saying goes, and is accurate,- When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.

The facts show that guns in the hands of law abiding people DECREASE murder/rape/assault. If someone wants to stab you to death with a knife they will be far more weary of doing it if they think you might be carrying a firearm for self defense.

 

[clarky003]

I think i really understand where you guys are coming from,, and I seriously hope one day it all works out, whichever way.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I mean, they might aswell list who shot who.

Heh, they even do that.

* As of 1998, nationwide, there has been 1 recorded incident in which a permit holder shot someone following a traffic accident. The permit holder was not charged, as the grand jury ruled the shooting was in self defense.

* As of 1998, no permit holder has ever shot a police officer. There have been several cases in which a permit holder has protected an officer's life.

 

[CptStern]

is it really disturbing stern?? i mean come on... what if you are actually going to need to use a gun at some point of time. if you cant shoot it and clean it then your screwed... hopefully though you will never have to :/ but who knows, the world is f***** up as it is :/

maybe where you're from you feel you need one for protection but I dont. It's a false sense of protection ..you're more likely to be killed by a person you know than a stranger (note the "unknown" is referring to unsolved murders)

btw in 2002 there were a total of 184 justifiable homicides -The killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen

 

[ductonius]

maybe where you're from you feel you need one for protection but I dont. It's a false sense of protection ..you're more likely to be killed by a person you know than a stranger (note the "unknown" is referring to unsolved murders)

The thing about statistics is that depending on how you group things and depending on what headings you place them under, they can say very different things about a population.

For instance, in that lovely little pie chart (and the web page it's picked from) we can do this little analysis:

Of the "Other known" group (which is the second largest by far) 75% murderer were only an "aquaintance" of the victim. This means that 37% of victims are either a stranger to thier attacker or only knew of them (aquaintance).

If we assume that the "unknown" group is statistically similar to the known groups (which it is probably safe to do since we have a large sample size) we come to the conclution that 64% of murder victims either didnt know thier attacker or only knew thier attacker as an "aquaintance".

What this means is that most people may have known *of* thier attackers but they didnt know thier attackers in any greater relationship than a passing "hi" in the gym or at the bar.

In other words, your more likely to be killed by someone you are unfamiliar with than someone who you know well.

btw in 2002 there were a total of 184 justifiable homicides -The killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen

I also don't know why you keep posting this since it only shows how many times a firearm actually saved a life by being used rather than simply its presence.

Someone who plugs an attacker in the leg and incapacitates them also dosent come up here becaue the attacker survived.

This statistic is totaly meaningless when debating the merits of firearms.

 

[Joe]

maybe where you're from you feel you need one for protection but I dont. It's a false sense of protection ..you're more likely to be killed by a person you know than a stranger (note the "unknown" is referring to unsolved murders)

btw in 2002 there were a total of 184 justifiable homicides -The killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen

And every year, 2 million to 2 1/2 million people use firearms in self defense (Yes, Private CITIZENS, http://utahshootingsports.com/positions/selfdefense.htm). In the vast majority of those cases (As your statistic suggests) no one is killed.

Try again, this time without contradicting yourself.


As far as the XM8/M16 issue goes, I fail to see what the XM8 achieves that the M16 doesn't. The M16 is incredibly simple to disassemble (Merely pushing one pin out swings the whole upper receiver open, Then it's just a matter of pulling the bolt carrier assembly out and cleaning.). Rather then replace the M16, they should adopt the new Piston based M16 upper receivers. This eliminates or puts the "jamming" issue most soldiers seem to be reporting, at the same level as the XM8.

 

[CptStern]

I also don't know why you keep posting this since it only shows how many times a firearm actually saved a life by being used rather than simply its presence.

Someone who plugs an attacker in the leg and incapacitates them also dosent come up here becaue the attacker survived.

This statistic is totaly meaningless when debating the merits of firearms.

in 9,220 of the 14,054 murders for 2002 were caused by firearms ...only 184 of them were justifiable homicides: you do the math

 

[ductonius]

in 9,220 of the 14,054 murders for 2002 were caused by firearms ...only 184 of them were justifiable homicides: you do the math

And what is doing the math supposed to prove?

 

[Joe]

in 9,220 of the 14,054 murders for 2002 were caused by firearms ...only 184 of them were justifiable homicides: you do the math

And despite those 9,220 murders, 2,000,000 people used a gun in self defense.

You do the math.

 

[CptStern]

And despite those 9,220 murders, 2,000,000 people used a gun in self defense.

You do the math.

maybe you should look at why there were 2 million incidents where americans needed a gun

 

[Newton]

Guns don't kill people, People kill people.

If there were 0 (zero) weapons (weapons meaning guns and knives) people would still get murdered, Raped, beaten and robbed. The firearm is simply the most used "Tool" in which a murder is preformed.

So what would happen if there were no guns in the world at all (To use someone else's comment), Someone went back in time and made sure no firearms were ever produced or even thought up, And people were commiting these same crimes in new ways, like murdering people with hammers. Would Hammers be banned or restricted? I guess the number of carpenters would go down since you would have to be certified to own a hammer.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that with no guns means no crime, people have been commiting the same crimes for thousands of years. If there were no guns they would just find new ways to commit the same old sins.

Guns aren't the problem.......People are.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

maybe you should look at why there were 2 million incidents where americans needed a gun

Social fallout/moral lapse. Social progression in schools and the effects on children raise criminals.

And subsequently, they commit assault, invade homes, and so on.

Social progression is a huge policy that I am against.

 

[qckbeam]

I like to shoot people. I like to shoot them right in the face with eye's wide open. Stick one of my old lead buddies right at the tip-top of their nose and watch as they come tumbling down.

 

[disruptioN_]

Umm...The XM8 isn't in HL2 is it?

 

[ductonius]

/a reply to the other guys post

Whats this, mon Capitan? No reply for me? How dissapointing. I was so looking forward to learning about all the things you were trying to prove with those statistics.

 

[SIGbastard]

The sig 55X series is combat proven (550, 551, 552). I think it would be even better. It is basically a refined AK action with accuracy unmatched from other battle rifles. How can you beat AK reliablity with match grade accuracy?? I'm not sure if they have some alternative handguards with a rail for mounting stuff however. It wouldn't be hard to fix that though. It does have the drawback of being pretty expensive though.

 

[Tr0n]

Guns don't kill people, People kill people.

If there were 0 (zero) weapons (weapons meaning guns and knives) people would still get murdered, Raped, beaten and robbed. The firearm is simply the most used "Tool" in which a murder is preformed.

So what would happen if there were no guns in the world at all (To use someone else's comment), Someone went back in time and made sure no firearms were ever produced or even thought up, And people were commiting these same crimes in new ways, like murdering people with hammers. Would Hammers be banned or restricted? I guess the number of carpenters would go down since you would have to be certified to own a hammer.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that with no guns means no crime, people have been commiting the same crimes for thousands of years. If there were no guns they would just find new ways to commit the same old sins.

Guns aren't the problem.......People are.

Had to quote this..... :thumbs:

 

[Newton]

I can't edit my post for some reason.
I messed up the 3rd line or so, it should be.........

"The firearm is simply the most used "Tool" with which murder is preformed."

 

[Joe]

maybe you should look at why there were 2 million incidents where americans needed a gun

Your point? Taking guns out of the hands of those 2 million Americans (Or more accurately, the 80 million firearm owners in the US) isn't helping to reduce crime. Quite the opposite.

 

[SIGbastard]

There's been a few cases where states that didn't allow concealed carry before started allowing it. The result has almost always been the same. Robberies, rapes, car jackings, and other such crimes go down. Criminals are less likely to victimize somebody if the feel there is a chance they might be armed. I have a ccw permit. If anything it makes me avoid situations that could escalate to violent confrontations. I hope to never really need my gun, but it's always there just in case. I'm not even supposed to touch my gun in public unless my life is threatened or I am facing some situation that could cause me serious bodily harm, but as I said before if I can get out of the situation it is my duty to do everything possible to do so. Touching/handling my gun in a public place without reason would be considered use of deadly force and I would be prosecuted if proof existed that I did such. It's even considered brandishing a firearm if my gun prints against my clothing so as to make it noticeable, or if perhaps the wind was to blow my shirt up and reveal it. That is unless you live in a state with open carry where you can wear a gun in plain view.

 

[CptStern]

There's been a few cases where states that didn't allow concealed carry before started allowing it. The result has almost always been the same. Robberies, rapes, car jackings, and other such crimes go down. Criminals are less likely to victimize somebody if the feel there is a chance they might be armed. I have a ccw permit. If anything it makes me avoid situations that could escalate to violent confrontations. I hope to never really need my gun, but it's always there just in case. I'm not even supposed to touch my gun in public unless my life is threatened or I am facing some situation that could cause me serious bodily harm, but as I said before if I can get out of the situation it is my duty to do everything possible to do so. Touching/handling my gun in a public place without reason would be considered use of deadly force and I would be prosecuted if proof existed that I did such. It's even considered brandishing a firearm if my gun prints against my clothing so as to make it noticeable, or if perhaps the wind was to blow my shirt up and reveal it. That is unless you live in a state with open carry where you can wear a gun in plain view.

you really have no clue how insane that sounds to most people outside of the US

btw how many american cities with a population of 4 million + has less than 70 murders a year? none? well my city with a population of 4 + million and usually averages around 50-60 murders a year ..and guess what? handguns are extremely hard to come by ..you think there's a co-relation?

 

[SIGbastard]

Well here's to craziness I guess. This is my daily carry gun. It's a Sig Sauer P239 in a Milt Sparks Versa Max II black cowhide holster.

 

[SIGbastard]

As you can tell I have no ass.

 

[CptStern]

Well here's to craziness I guess. This is my daily carry gun. It's a Sig Sauer P239 in a Milt Sparks Versa Max II black cowhide holster.

moving to a safer area would be easier dont ya think?

 

[SIGbastard]

I live in a very safe area. I live in Moore, Oklahoma. Even though it is very safe murder and crime still happen here. I just don't want to be a victim, and getting married gave me the responsibility of protecting my wife as well. I'll be here for the next 4-5 years at least because I will be going to the University of Oklahoma School of Dentistry soon.

 

[CptStern]

I live in a very safe area. I live in Moore, Oklahoma. Even though it is very safe murder and crime still happen here. I just don't want to be a victim, and getting married gave me the responsibility of protecting my wife as well. I'll be here for the next 4-5 years at least because I will be going to the University of Oklahoma School of Dentistry soon.

well you can't feel all that safe if you feel the need to arm yourself for protection. The logic is flawed but to each his own I guess.

 

[SIGbastard]

I doubt I will ever need my gun, however if I do end up needing it then I will be glad it's there.