A democratized forum idea

Raziaar

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Hey guys.

I've been thinking how pretty much all forums out there follow the traditional owner/admin/moderator style of forum moderation. I know that I and many others feel this way of operation can have some serious flaws and be potentially detrimental to a forum. Sometimes administrators or moderators develop the notion in their head that their position was granted to them so they could have power, and be free to exercise that power upon others how they see fit. This leads them to operate in a relative dictatorship like fashion, which is very bad. It is my belief that moderators are not given their powers to exercise them in that way, but instead they are to serve the mebers of the forum in keeping the forum cleaned of spam and an enjoyable place to post. They also have a duty to the site owner by making sure the content of the forum follows his/her view of how things should be. And generally, most moderators do exactly this. They are humble and realize their job is to serve the rest of the forum members, and use their position of power with dignity and respect. That's what I think anyways. And of course there's also the problem where there simply aren't enough moderators, or a forum may go an extended period of time where there are no moderators online to deal with a situation, which has happened several times on these forums.

But I think it would be an interesting exercise to develop a forum, or to modify an existing forum, to adopt a more democratized way of operation that involves the bulk of the users in the job of moderation. If you have a new forum, the owner would assign a small group of moderators to keep the forum clean as things develop and the community grows and becomes established. But as forums become established, people start getting a good feeling for others and they learn to respect them and know they are a regular fixture to the forum. In my idea, once this sophistication of the community is developed to this point, the power will gradually be shifted from the placeholder moderators to these well known and frequently present members of the community. Of course you can apply this to an existing forum by modifying it as these elements already exist.

As individuals, the members bestowed these powers would be incapable of doing anything. It is as a collective group they have the power to make significant changes. If somebody registers to the forum and starts spamming threads or being entirely inconsistent with how people should operate themselves while participating in the forum, these individuals can band together and use their power against the individual by voting to ban them. If there's enough people willing to do this as set by the site owner, the individual will be banned. This organized action will be logged and allowed review by a panel of moderators(yes, there will still be a small group of very trusted moderators for this purpose), who will determine a case by case basis if a particular decision was just. They have the ability to enforce or reverse the effects of the vote, making sure that if any small group of voting level members bands together to do some unlawful things, the effects won't likely be present for long. Those members may then be stripped of their voting capabilities by the site owner or the panel of moderators for their unscrupulous behavior.

I personally think this would be a fantastic exercise. Voting members would have the power to ban, lock threads, unlock threads, prevent a particular user from posting for a set period of time, and various other things that in a conventional system the moderators, admin, and owner would handle. This would still allow the owner ultimate dictatorship over his site, but it would transfer the power from the admins and moderators to the people. There would still be a panel of moderators appointed by the site owner, with the powers of other voting members, but their only 'superior' power would be to enforce or overturn votes performed by the general base of members. This would remove the feelings of there being moderator cliques and oppressive dictatorship capabilities, and also allow all members who invest themselves in the forums to participate in regulating it with their ability to have voting power if they don't abuse it.

What do you think?
 
/me doesn't read but posts any way in a humorous response to someone who has already posted but it doesn't work because no one has posted yet
 
^ "Forums should be moderated by popular vote"


Sounds messy. So much voting.
 
Sounds like TF2. Would mic-spamming be allowed?
 
Basically he's saying that either a new forum or this one should have it to where a small group of members have the right to vote members to be banned. Let's say if a fresh register comes in a spams, the group can vote them out and then a panel of trusted mods can see if it was right.

So to have a democratized forum.
 
^ "Forums should be moderated by popular vote"


Sounds messy. So much voting.

Would only really need to be voting in situations that need voting. Like when somebody is breaking the rules and needs to be dealt with.

Oh well, it was just an idea. I think it'd be a great experiment.

French Ninja said:
Long live our benevolent leader, Munro!

Munro would still be supreme dictator and overlord as he is the site owner :-P
 
Wouldn't work. This is the internet. Also, the average forumite doesn't know how to properly moderate a forum.

You think votes to ban users would EVER be fair? No; regardless of deed there would be people voting to ban either for the hell of it or because they dislike them.

If you think it'd be a good experiment then install phpBB on a webserver somewhere, code some new php and start getting people to join :P

edit: oh, and any aspirations for this to be on HL2.net... laughable
 
Wouldn't work. This is the internet. Also, the average forumite doesn't know how to properly moderate a forum.

You think votes to ban users would EVER be fair? No; regardless of deed there would be people voting to ban either for the hell of it or because they dislike them.

If you think it'd be a good experiment then install phpBB on a webserver somewhere, code some new php and start getting people to join :P

I might just do that. But you do have fair points.

However that's why I think having a moderator panel to oversee unfair and malicious votes and overturn them and strip the voters from their rights. And once they no longer have the right to vote... well, that gets rid of one or multiple people who are willing to vote maliciously.
 
Then you reintroduce the same conflict that you're trying to avoid. If moderators are still ultimately making all the calls, it's not a democracy. Unless the mods were voted for, but that is also a terrible idea because it'd purely be a popularity contest. The mods are going to make calls against the majority sometimes and there will still be tension there just as there is now.
 
voteban Ennui!

Who's with me? OVERTHROW THE SHACKLES OF OPPRESSION!










... Hello? Guys?
 
Then you reintroduce the same conflict that you're trying to avoid. If moderators are still ultimately making all the calls, it's not a democracy. Unless the mods were voted for, but that is also a terrible idea because it'd purely be a popularity contest. The mods are going to make calls against the majority sometimes and there will still be tension there just as there is now.

Well see, except the moderators only get the power to be prevented from being affected by voters, only being able to be affected by the site owner. The only things the moderators would be able to do, actively, is block unfair or malicious votes. They don't need to act on a vote to approve it... it's approved automatically, they just get the choice to overturn it or not.

And not all people would be given the right to vote anyways. Only people who invest themselves in the community and prove they are good, valuable members. It is at that point they are given the power to become a voting member. Random people who join won't be able to vote. Recent members won't be able to vote. Only people who establish themselves in the community will be able to vote, so that narrows down the chances of malicious votes happening.

I do think you have good points though... but I still think something like this could work. And even if not, it would at the least be an interesting experiment.


DEATHMASTER said:
we need an oligarchy, wait we got one.

Hahaha.
 
Websites (and their forums) are privately run, they were never intended to be democratic, communist, or whatever shared system of power you want.

Save democracy for elections, democracy on a forum is called anarchy, it ends badly.


Not to mention it takes ages for democracy to get anything done, can you imagine the chaos while the forum members bloody discuss to death wether to ban tommy-mc-troll-faice or not?.
 
Wouldnt work, for the reasons that Ennui listed. Really guys, am I the only one who doesnt mind the few limitations we have on this forum in exchange for removing the crap threads/users we get?
 
Wouldnt work, for the reasons that Ennui listed. Really guys, am I the only one who doesnt mind the few limitations we have on this forum in exchange for removing the crap threads/users we get?

It would be nice if the mods were limited in how they can warp and disregard the limitations. Democratic forums may not work as intended, but it's fully clear that what we've got doesn't work either.
 
Dissent is disloyalty.

Obey the will of Munro, citizens.
 
I don't think it would work either.

But I also don't agree with some of the mods' powers, for instance, the ability to see deleted posts.
 
I obey the Will of Munro. I just refuse to believe the will of Munro is what some of the moderators enforce :o.
 
I don't think it would work either.

But I also don't agree with some of the mods' powers, for instance, the ability to see deleted posts.

They need that power. That way mods can self-regulate and see whether a certain post warranted deletion.
 
I refuse to believe that!

<covers his ears>

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA
 
They need that power. That way mods can self-regulate and see whether a certain post warranted deletion.
Alright, didn't think of that.

Maybe it's some of the mods' attitudes that get to me as well. :<
 
I like to think of it as "contempt for the community".
 
I'm happy with current moderation. The only mod I'm scared of is Pi and he barely gives me any infractions. Most of my infractions come from people like Samon, Glenn, Ennui, who are people I know don't have a bias against me. So I feel fairly treated. I haven't felt the need to dispute an infraction in a long while.
 
I don't run into trouble with the mods, so I have no qualms. It's an interesting idea Raz but as Ennui said, this is the interwebs.
 
The moderation is fine. All members are equally subjected to repression by the moderators. There's no bias.
 
einforumgf2.png
 
Tile that in the background of the forum so we don't forget.
 
What is all this moderator abuse you guys seem to be referring to? The only people that ever complain when I give them infractions are noobs, none of the oldies or regulars ever dispute. And yes, think of us as a judicial system (of judges that interpret the rules in the context of any given situation) rather than simply enforcement.

Admittedly it is sort of unfair to you guys because we're free to make any calls we want, but I think we're pretty good about it for the most part, barring a few philosophical disagreements about what makes a forum or thread of good quality. That's how it should be anyway, anything other than autocratic power on a forum is silly and doesn't work (which is why you don't see it anywhere).

We should have a Something Awful day where we run the site according to their rules, which are a hundred times more strict, harsh, ruthless, and non-negotiable. About a quarter of the site would get temp-banned.
 
Votebans on game servers are based on the same idea, and they suck. All you need is one person to not like you, and he can get all his friends to vote to ban you. Its too easy to abuse, and people are too likely to abuse it for it to work.


And Ennui, im pretty sure the closing of Misc and Mugshots are what peopled are miffed about. I still dont see the reason why they were closed.
 
Just so you know guys, this thread wasn't made because of situations with current moderation of this forum. This idea doesn't really relate to this forum in any way. I wasn't even suggesting it to be applied to this forum. It was made as a discussion about a potential experiment on a yet to be made forum for the most part.

Votebans on game servers are based on the same idea, and they suck. All you need is one person to not like you, and he can get all his friends to vote to ban you. Its too easy to abuse, and people are too likely to abuse it for it to work.


And Ennui, im pretty sure the closing of Misc and Mugshots are what peopled are miffed about. I still dont see the reason why they were closed.

But votebans on servers are done with anonymous people who you never met before and likely will never meet again. You haven't talked with them in thousands of posts and interacted with them for potentially years.
 
Liar! You made this thread because of Misc and Mugshots! I KNOW IT.
 
If Mugshots and Misc were closed for the reasons I possibly-erroneously-remember them being closed for, then my disdain for the mods* is completely legitimate.

*not all of them.
 
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