1984?

[Azrael.]

Maybe it's just me, but does anyone notice striking similarities between the Tenements bink and George Orwell's novel 1984? Just a thought while we all wait...

 

[Petabyte]

Yeah, hasen't this been discussed?

 

[GMania]

I think this might have been discussed before.
But yes, I noticed them too. It's not just you.

EDIT
-----
Beat me to it, petabyte. lol

 

[UndercoverBob]

yea i think thats pretty cool 1982 is my fav book but im sorry but this has been discused before

 

[Azrael.]

Yeah, hasen't this been discussed?

Ah, sorry about that then. I'd never seen anything about it before on the forums.

 

[Petabyte]

It's alright. Is it in search?

 

[Homer]

nearly every single distpoia book, tv show, movie, or game since 1948 has drawn heavily on 1984. Its not that they stole from 1984, its just that 1984 was so broad in its description of a oppressive totalitarian distopia that any story about a future distpoia is going to be similar in some ways.

 

[f|uke]

1982 is my fav book

Was that the prequel? j/k

 

[UndercoverBob]

no seriously i read it before i new HL2 was comming out

 

[Ownzed]

Never read it. Hate reading..

 

[Dr.breen]

It's easy to read if you haven't got mental demons that distract you from the story.

Which I have.


Some call it A.D.D, I call it schizophrenia.

 

[SFLUFAN]

I see two literary references in Half Life 2:

"1984" and "Brave New World"

 

[wayne white]

also the movie brazil,which is based on the book.

 

[InZaneFlea]

I'll stick to meh Discworld novels. But yeah, I noticed that as well.

 

[Roland Deschain]

This game has been delayed so long that we are drawing connections to books (which I don't mind, I love 1984). I'm just saying

 

[b0ng]

brave new world is about genetic manipulation and the harvesting of humans and pre-destined social classes

 

[dis]

I just remember how promiscuity was encouraged in Brave New world. THe complete opposite was true in Orwells' vision of a future totalitarian government - I remember it being mentioned that couples couldn't marry in Oceania if a marriage board thought there was actual physical attraction betweenthe two. And this is off topic, but has anyone else thought about the "two minutes of hate" in light of whats going on in the world today. Like the government flashes Osama's face on the screen every know and then and we're all supposed to swing in support of the Patriot Act and other BS. ...now the FBI's probably gonne be watchin' me for saying that lol

I did notice the similarities between the tenements video and 1984 and I'm sur eto some degree the similarities are deliberate. Pretty cool in my opinion, 1984 was a favorite book of mine.

 

[Dead-Inside]

Ah, sorry about that then. I'd never seen anything about it before on the forums.

I've seen one of these threads, let me think...
At least 30 seperate times in the last 3 months I believe, not counting the last two weeks since they've been about Gold and stuff.

 

[Feath]

I see a few elements of Phillip K. Dick about. I'll have to read some of the books I have again to see.

As for totalitarian states, how many different versions can you have? It's a bit like saying "I've noticed that every Sci-Fi movie set in space has space ships like Star Wars". The stories in 1984 and Half-Life 2 are probably miles apart.

 

[Maui]

Phillip Dick (the guy who made the book Blade Runner was based on, for those that don't know) had some pretty cool ideas, but I didn't like how he implemented them in his book :/

Having said that, I'm not sure exactly which parallels you've seen...I haven't really noticed anything major.

 

[Feath]

Phillip Dick (the guy who made the book Blade Runner was based on, for those that don't know) had some pretty cool ideas, but I didn't like how he implemented them in his book :/

Having said that, I'm not sure exactly which parallels you've seen...I haven't really noticed anything major.

It's mainly his short stories. The Breen on the Tele with everyone watching is one. I can't remember it at all, so I couldn't tell you the story.

 

[boomyak]

some k. dick short stories that have a single man/being on a tv screen are that i can think of are:

-The little black box (From ordinary household objects) 1963
- Faith of our fathers 1967 (hugo nominee)

nearly every single distpoia book, tv show, movie, or game since 1948 has drawn heavily on 1984. Its not that they stole from 1984, its just that 1984 was so broad in its description of a oppressive totalitarian distopia that any story about a future distpoia is going to be similar in some ways.

dystopia?

i disagree, i believe orwell's vision was a utopia in that it served it's function. it mediated it's population (say red blood cells that make up an complex organizm) by thought police (white blood cells) who kept the red cells flowing on time, in line. and the different ministries to govern over what affects all the cells in the body (like organs heart, kidney, liver) to me, that part of the book where the protagonist is reading that book, it's a 20 page section or so, it explains all the extended theories of constant warfare to keep it's "body" lean and fit, and most importantly, under control. a perfect utopia to the orgamizm, just not to the individual blood cell.

ok maybe that's a far fetched analogy, can you imagine if one day your blood cells decided not to come to work? lol

 

[Mechagodzilla]

This game has been delayed so long that we are drawing connections to books (which I don't mind, I love 1984). I'm just saying

Maybe it's for the best.
Initiating the "OMG wallhaxX" gamers out there into literature.

Now they can be like OMG Shakespeare!

 

[redundant]

brave new world doesn't have much to do with hl2. it's got the conformity, but the whole idea is that everyone is conditioned through sleep hypnotism etc. that what they experience is good, so all that they feel is happiness.

you don't really get the feeling that in hl2 everyone's happy about what's going on.

the guy who made the book Blade Runner was based on

"Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep"

heh, it's so funny that we're talking about all this, because in school i am studying both "Brave New World" and "Bladerunner".

 

[Styloid]

White blood cells mediate red blood cells? What?

Maybe HL2 is based on Invader Zim. Dr.Breen(Zim) is trying to enslave the human race in vain but with hilarious results. G-man(Gir) turns out to be a psychotic robot that does Breen's bidding but ultimately screws up. The citadel is Zim's cloaked ship. Gordon (Dib) is a paranoid psuedo-scientist that has to save the world from an evil that no one else can see... But then who are the Tallest? We'll probably see in HL3.

 

[Tiddalick]

I was born in 1984...
The world shall fear when I move into power...

 

[Feath]

White blood cells mediate red blood cells? What?

Yeah, I got a bit worried by the mental image of my red blood cells only actually transporting oxyen because the white blood cells force them to.

Boomyak, I think it's Faith of our fathers that I'm thinking of. It's the one which is set in a far eastern country. The references aren't stuff that I see, more like what could turn into references if the Half-Life 2 story unfolds in a certain way.

 

[boomyak]

okay, perhaps "mediate" wasn't the best choice of words, allow me to extrapolate: The white cells monitor the red blood cells to make sure that nothing happens to the red blood cell that would prohibit it from carrying out it's purpose. aka the idea of consciousness and questioning authority could be seen as hazardous to the protagonists productivity at his post. therefore the white bloodcell "cleansed" the red cell which had something foregin growing on it (consciousness). this is why this wonderful world in which we live is a beautiful dystopia. because some of us don't have jobs, some of us control too much, or too little, there is no control, and that is our human experiance. this is not to say we're not at a serious threat to assemble into a visonary utopia, there are many forces at work in today's world who would have it that way, but somehow we're coded not to see things that way, weird how we're kinda the first animal to thrive on anarchy and uncertanty? tell that to the colony of ants, and they'd be ****ed

 

[Lanthanide]

Somewhat in line with Boom's thoughts, I really don't see what was so bad with the society presented in Brave New World. Sure, people couldn't do whatever they wanted whenever they wanted, but at least everyone was happy, healthy and had a purpose in life.

Surely that's better than our current state of affairs where the majority of the populace aren't happy, healthy and many have no clear goals in life (prisoners, those stuck in dead in jobs, etc)?

 

[Maui]

@Lanthanide: Perhaps. However many philosophers (correct me if I'm mistaken, I don't usually get into such things) believe authenticity is a prerequisite for "true" happiness. You'll find a lot of such things if you look up something like Descartes' malevolent demon, the "brain-in-a-vat" theory proposed by someone, or even (God-forbid) the Matrix. (So many wannabe philosophers were born when they heard Morpheus say "What is real?"...OMG IT'S A v00l black dude with gunz talkign c4azy cooil stufgf!!!112 :/)

Personally given a choice though, I'm not sure what I'd do. I'm lucky enough to live an alright life - certainly far from perfect and I wish things could be a little better, but I'm in a fairly good college, with a place to stay, and I typically have enough to eat...etc etc, you get the idea. Where I am now, I would probably stay here (unless Descartes' idea is real, in which case this already is a dream world, and it just sucks! :0 )

But if I was on the very bottom...you know, that's really something I'll have to think about. Thanks for making it impossible to study until I figure it out


DISCLAIMER: I'm not a philosopher, and I don't pretend to be. If you think there's something wrong with what I said, you're probably right. Don't be mean I'm studying engineering for godsakes. :/

 

[Lanthanide]

Well even if authenticity is required, the question still remains:

Is it better for a small portion of the populace to be authentically happy and the majority authentically unhappy

Or

For the entirety of the populace to be artificially happy and be unaware that it is artificial?


I still think the 2nd state is better. And yes, I would rather live in the Matrix.

 

[Maui]

Though it could be possible (continuing to use the Matrix example ) that something along the lines of what Lord Elrond P) said could happen. Something like "not accepting the programming", where it's not in human nature or something.

An example would probably be better. Let's say we're all in heaven (yay!) Everyone in heaven is supposed to be happy 100%, 100% of the time. Now let's say Betty is in heaven. Betty is a nice girl. Tom is another person in heaven, and he thinks Betty is great and wants to walk down a pathway with her talking about something. Kittens. He wants to talk about kittens.

There's too immediately obvious ways for this to go down the tubes for at least one of them. The first, Betty wants to talk about eating babies (or something very different from kittens - is it scary that eating babies was the first thing that popped into my head? o_0; ). If that's the case, then either

a) Betty won't be happy because Tom is rambling on about mittens or something. This could make Tom sad too because Betty is just sitting there bored.

-or-

b) Tom is horrified because Betty is talking about eating babies. Betty might like that though.

Either way, someone isn't happy.

The other way it could break down is with the addition of a third person, Pat. Pat also wants to talk to Betty, at the same time as Tom. Well, there's only one Betty. Someone's going to get shafted, and in heaven no less.

Now I guess technically, the Brave New World could just say "well, they're taught that being ignored by Betty (or bored by kittens, or horrified by baby eating, etc etc) is a good thing, so then they would be happy. (I haven't had the opportunity to read that book, so forgive me if my interpretation is off base a little)

I'm not quite sure what to say to that. Apparently it comes down to whether you think happiness is a result of surroundings or a state of mind, e.g. if you're in the first group: things are going well, you're being fed grapes in a reclining couch, you're HAPPY. If you're in the second group - hell, I'm not quite sure how to describe that one. It's kinda like describing how you raise your left arm - you just do it. I suck with similies

I think I wandered off topic a bit too and started rambling. Probably because it's 2:54 AM and I have school to wake up for in four hours. Before I start bitching too much though -

I guess what I was trying to say that it's not in human nature for everyone to be happy all the time. We're a naturally competetive species, and I don't think any system that doesn't take that into account will work very well and/or last very long. I'm afraid I'm unable to back that up with examples at the moment, and quite frankly I doubt you'd be interested in them anyway. You've probably stopped reading anyway. Sometimes I walk outside without clothes on, just to spite my pirate neighbors. SEX. Betcha you're reading now.

I'll slap myself for hitting "Post Quick Reply" for this in a few hours, I just know it...

 

[Lanthanide]

Did you say... naked?

Heh, anyway. In Brave New World people are mass-produced in factories (with artificial wombs - the lower castes get poisons and lack of nutrients while the upper castes are given all possible benefits) where their future desinty in the society is chosen before their birth to fulfill the needs of the society.

So if the society needs more of the dumbest of the dumb workers, then it creates some more. If it needs more of the alpha brain-boxes, then it creates some more.

Everyone is happy with their station in life because they have been brainwashed into it from the time they were born and they expect nothing different.

What you were saying about people being unhappy about being ignored or being repulsed by talking about eating babies - this does happen in the book as it follows a woman who is an Alpha, one of the ones who is given all advantages. She does get miffed and upset at people a few times because they won't have sex with her, but she doesn't really mind because there's always someone else she can have sex with.

So to go back to your analogy - Tom might be a little sad right now that Betty is bored, but later on she might like to hear about his kittens. Or if she doesn't, he'll be able to find someone else who does.

So you can see how people can still be happy, even if there are small setbacks every now and then - they just get over it.

 

[Azrael.]

I've seen one of these threads, let me think...
At least 30 seperate times in the last 3 months I believe, not counting the last two weeks since they've been about Gold and stuff.

Woop-de-doo.

 

[Azrael.]

Well even if authenticity is required, the question still remains:

Is it better for a small portion of the populace to be authentically happy and the majority authentically unhappy

Or

For the entirety of the populace to be artificially happy and be unaware that it is artificial?


I still think the 2nd state is better. And yes, I would rather live in the Matrix.

I agree that the 2nd would be better. But I wouldn't want to have to choose between the two, lol.

 

[Jakeic]

I only know of 4 people who have ever heard of Bladerunner and even fewer that have read the book.

Anyways, my point is that coat that Harrison Ford wears will some day be mine.

 

[shade70]

I only know of 4 people who have ever heard of Bladerunner and even fewer that have read the book.

Only 4? wow, most of the people you know must not be Sci Fi fans then. Anyone who is the bit interested in Sci Fi have seen Blade Runner. Its a Great Film.....one of the best Sci Fi films ever.....I wish they had kept the book title though 'Do Androids dream of Electric Sheep?'.

Would have been a cool title for the film lol

 

[Annihilator_91]

BLARGH! The Gabe has said himself that the story of HL2 was based on 1984. :bounce:

 

[sgtjake]

can someone tell me what 1984 is aboot

 

[Annihilator_91]

can someone tell me what 1984 is aboot

Too complicated... read.... :bounce: