36% Approval Rating For August, How Low Can It Go

[CptStern]

Blindly? No. I listened to the CIA, MI5 (or 6 whatever it is), and the Russian Intel. They (the leading intelligence agencies in the world) all came to the same conclusions. I also came to my conclusion based on Saddam's insane past.

what are you talking about? the CIA intelligence was a farce ..they even said as much ...now I've given you cia intelligence up the wazoo ...why did you listen then but wont now?

You say you try to read as many sources and viewpoints as possible. However, you dont read anything leaning right on a common basis? What is your idea of reading 'many viewpoints' then? You go from commondreams to democraticunderground. Wow, what a leap.

look ...I dont see why this is so difficult for you to grasp ...yes I read various sources ..from CNN to the Guardian from the washington post to CBC ..they are somewhat credible ...I refuse to listen to propaganda bullshit from the likes of Bill "no spin" (what a ****ing joke) O'Reilly, Little green footballs, or Hannity & Dumbass

 

[seinfeldrules]

I refuse to listen to propaganda bullshit from the likes of Bill "no spin" (what a ****ing joke) O'Reilly, Little green footballs, or Hannity & Dumbass

But you relish in the propoganda bullshit from the likes of commondreams.org and democraticunderground.com. I get it.

I dont see why this is so difficult for you to grasp ...yes I read various sources ..from CNN to the Guardian from the washington post to CBC ..they are somewhat credible

Thats good, now if you could lose the nutty websites you'd be all set.

what are you talking about? the CIA intelligence was a farce ..they even said as much ...now I've given you cia intelligence up the wazoo ...why did you listen then but wont now?

It wasnt only the CIA that made the claims. It was the Brits and Russians as well.

 

[SAJ]

Off topic : 36% approval rating for Bush? Gosh thats jolly low! Does it a have ramifications for foreign policy or the up-coming midterms I wonder?

And now.........back to the show.......

 

[CptStern]

But you relish in the propoganda bullshit from the likes of commondreams.org and democraticunderground.com. I get it.

no that's where you're wrong ..they can all be cross referenced with other sources. I notice however that your own government documents havent been mentioned ...I guess that's propaganda bullshit as well?

Thats good, now if you could lose the nutty websites you'd be all set.

you just dont get it ...the vast majority of evidence I post is not from editorials but rather from journalistic accounts of what happened

It wasnt only the CIA that made the claims. It was the Brits and Russians as well.

please, dont try to pawn that bullshit on me ..you gave them their evidence ...read up on the "45 minutes to nuke london" or the downing street memos ...russia didnt want the US to invade but through negotiations they came on board

 

[No Limit]

But you relish in the propoganda bullshit from the likes of commondreams.org and democraticunderground.com. I get it.


Thats good, now if you could lose the nutty websites you'd be all set.


It wasnt only the CIA that made the claims. It was the Brits and Russians as well.

Did you not get this memo?

http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/

Before you make the claim that the CIA would never cave in to political pressure be sure to check this out:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/051105X.shtml

And before you ask for a better source CNN along with others have that story, I just don't have time to pull it up.

 

[seinfeldrules]

no that's where you're wrong ..they can all be cross referenced with other sources. I notice however that your own government documents havent been mentioned ...I guess that's propaganda bullshit as well?

"Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community". You think that they dont have an agenda? God.

you just dont get it ...the vast majority of evidence I post is not from editorials but rather from journalistic accounts of what happened

Pretty much everything from those sites are editorials.

please, dont try to pawn that bullshit on me ..you gave them their evidence ...read up on the "45 minutes to nuke london" or the downing street memos ..***ssia didnt want the US to invade but through negotiations they came on board

Just because they didnt want us to invade doesnt mean that their intelligence agency couldnt come to the same conclusions as ours. They didnt want us to invade because of all the profit they'd be losing (which you ignore because it isnt the US). All the illegal sales they were making to Saddam.

 

[No Limit]

Just because they didnt want us to invade doesnt mean that their intelligence agency couldnt come to the same conclusions as ours. They didnt want us to invade because of all the profit they'd be losing (which you ignore because it isnt the US). All the illegal sales they were making to Saddam.

What intelligence are you talking about exactly?

 

[seinfeldrules]

Did you not get this memo?

http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/

Before you make the claim that the CIA would never cave in to political pressure be sure to check this out:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/051105X.shtml

And before you ask for a better source CNN along with others have that story, I just don't have time to pull it up.

See, you refuse to look at the Clinton aspect. If Bush was making everything up, why did Clinton also believe that Saddam had WMD? I guarantee that if I posted many of his quotations, you would believe they came from Bush's mouth rather than his. That leads me to believe that this was a widescale intelligence failure that resulted from relying too heavily on technology rather than assets on the ground. Its not like I support this war 100% either, I think our focus would have done greater good on NK or Iran.

 

[seinfeldrules]

What intelligence are you talking about exactly?

US, the Brits, and the Russians all felt Saddam had WMD. This was a story from either last year or a few years ago so feel free to look it up yourself.

 

[No Limit]

See, you refuse to look at the Clinton aspect. If Bush was making everything up, why did Clinton also believe that Saddam had WMD? I guarantee that if I posted many of his quotations, you would believe they came from Bush's mouth rather than his. That leads me to believe that this was a widescale intelligence failure that resulted from relying too heavily on technology rather than assets on the ground.

We had that discussion and I'm not going to go over clinton again, every single time I bring that up you bring Clinton up. Lets just say for the sake of the argument Clinton was lying his ass off (he wasnt but whatever), lets leave that there. Why were the British saying Bush wanted to fix intelligence to go in to Iraq?

 

[CptStern]

"Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community". You think that they dont have an agenda? God.

dear lord how many times do I have to hammer this into your head? THAT"S NOT MY ONLY SOURCE!!!! I post far more from this source then any of the others

Pretty much everything from those sites are editorials.

backed with evidence ..again that's not my only source ..they are certainly more reliable than fox"news" the most mainstream of right-wing news

Just because they didnt want us to invade doesnt mean that their intelligence agency couldnt come to the same conclusions as ours.

prove it ..show me documents

They didnt want us to invade because of all the profit they'd be losing (which you ignore because it isnt the US). All the illegal sales they were making to Saddam.

well had you read the link I just posted you wouldnt have said that ...cuz that's what the article says ...at least try to pretend to read the link by waiting a few minutes before you post

 

[seinfeldrules]

Lets just say for the sake of the argument Clinton was lying his ass off (he wasnt but whatever), lets leave that there.

If thats the case then our country really is in deep shit.

Why were the British saying Bush wanted to fix intelligence to go in to Iraq?

Do either you or I have legitimate answers to that? This is the problem with debating matters this deep. You may think you know the whole story, but only a very few in Gov't actually do. I guarantee you that there are boatloads of information in Washington and London that would change this whole debate.

 

[No Limit]

If thats the case then our country really is in deep shit.


Do either you or I have legitimate answers to that? This is the problem with debating matters this deep. You may think you know the whole story, but only a very few in Gov't actually do. I guarantee you that there are boatloads of information in Washington and London that would change this whole debate.

What are you talking about? these are the minutes of an offical meeting that took place between Blair and his top advisors. Everyone at that meeting agreed that intelligence would have to be fixed. Why did they say this? Its a simple question and I know the answer (because they were set on invading Iraq at that time), I just want you to say it.

 

[CptStern]

Do either you or I have legitimate answers to that? This is the problem with debating matters this deep. You may think you know the whole story, but only a very few in Gov't actually do. I guarantee you that there are boatloads of information in Washington and London that would change this whole debate.

read the damn link <- "oh loook it's one of those communist anti-american sources CptStern is always posting"



"I said, 'Mr. President. We've done this before. We have been looking at this. We looked at it with an open mind. There's no connection.'

"He came back at me and said, "Iraq! Saddam! Find out if there's a connection.' And in a very intimidating way. I mean that we should come back with that answer. We wrote a report."



he was right ****ing there

 

[seinfeldrules]

he was right ****ing there

He is also trying to sell a book...

backed with evidence ..again that's not my only source ..they are certainly more reliable than fox"news" the most mainstream of right-wing news

Sigh, you are so inundated with all their propoganda you are lost forever. You really would be better off blocking those sites from your internet.

prove it ..show me documents

Here is one link, not the one I was looking for, but it will fit.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/06/18/russia.warning/

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian intelligence services warned Washington several times that Saddam Hussein's regime planned terrorist attacks against the United States, President Vladimir Putin has said.

 

[seinfeldrules]

What are you talking about? these are the minutes of an offical meeting that took place between Blair and his top advisors. Everyone at that meeting agreed that intelligence would have to be fixed. Why did they say this? Its a simple question and I know the answer (because they were set on invading Iraq at that time), I just want you to say it.

But that brings us right back around to Clinton.

 

[T.H.C.138]

do either one of you guys TRULY believe any garbage spewing forth on ANY website? especially where politics(the almighty lie) is concerned?

and stern you aren't being "fair" (and neither are you seinfeld!!) in your research unless you go and read what fox news has to say...

then go to whatever "lefty" website..read their take on it...then figure somewhere in the middle is the truth..because BOTH SIDES ARE FULL OF SHIT!!

especially when discussing something they can't(won't) agree on..

make up your own mind..don't let these bought and paid for people think for you..

about the topic..I hope that it drops so low there is no choice but to get rid of this ENTIRE administration..

NO MORE PUPPETS!!

 

[No Limit]

But that brings us right back around to Clinton.

BULLSHIT!!! It is so frustrating to argue with someone that brings in Clinton everytime. **** Clinton, happy now? What I want to know is why were the british saying Bush was ready to attack Iraq in July of 2002 when he didn't even ask congress until September?

 

[seinfeldrules]

"We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program. " (Clinton)

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow. " (Clinton) 1998

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." (Cohen, Clinton's Sec. Defense)

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." Gore

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." Teddy Boy

 

[Lemonking]

seinfeldrules its not propaganda it the real deal declassified docs etc....get used to it Iraq
was a BIG mistake dont try to go off-topic with Clinton accept it

 

[seinfeldrules]

seinfeldrules its not propaganda it the real deal declassified docs etc....get used to it Iraq
was a BIG mistake dont try to go off-topic with Clinton accept it

??? English please.

 

[SAJ]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/06/18/russia.warning/

I would have thought that if credible, the info from russia would have been used by Bush/Cheney in their pusuit of an invasion.

Russia opposed the invasion of Iraq and Putin said Friday the information did not effect its stance on the war.

He said there were international norms and procedures that weren't observed regarding "the use of force in international actions."

Regarding how the information might have been related to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Putin said, "Whether or not this was sufficient basis to state the United States was acting within the boundaries of self-defense, well, I don't know. This is a separate issue."

The United States, meanwhile, never mentioned the Russian intelligence in its arguments for going to war.

Hours after Putin spoke, Bush addressed troops at Fort Lewis in the U.S. state of Washington, but he didn't react to the Russian leader's remarks.

But it clearly wasnt.

 

[seinfeldrules]

I would have thought that if credible, the info from russia would have been used by Bush/Cheney in their pusuit of an invasion.

I never said they used it. I said I used it.

 

[CptStern]

He is also trying to sell a book...

oh come on that's a thin premise to turn your back on your administration ..not too mention that it was all coroborated here and here

Sigh, you are so inundated with all their propoganda you are lost forever. You really would be better off blocking those sites from your internet.

:upstare: pot meet kettle, kettle pot ...you ooze a level of synchophantic patriotism that would stifle even the most dedicated of patriots

Here is one link, not the one I was looking for, but it will fit.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/06/18/russia.warning/

ummm:

"However, Putin said there was no evidence that Saddam's regime was involved in any terrorist attacks."

""I can confirm that after the events of September 11, 2001, and up to the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services and Russian intelligence several times received ... information that official organs of Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations," Putin said"


it says nothing about wmd

 

[SAJ]

I never said they used it. I said I used it

Ok , then I guess the point you were trying to illustrate with that cnn link would be this:

US, the Brits, and the Russians all felt Saddam had WMD. This was a story from either last year or a few years ago so feel free to look it up yourself.

The only thing thing is , there wasnt anything in that piece about WMD at all, just some vague warnings and the russians reiterating their stance against the war.



Edit: oi, lardass, give us all some room to breathe will ya.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Me

Here is one link, not the one I was looking for, but it will fit.

"However, Putin said there was no evidence that Saddam's regime was involved in any terrorist attacks."

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian intelligence services warned Washington several times that Saddam Hussein's regime planned terrorist attacks against the United States, President Vladimir Putin has said.

Meaning in the future.

 

[CptStern]

Me




Meaning in the future.

what SAJ said ...that's not what you were implying

 

[seinfeldrules]

what SAJ said ...that's not what you were implying

The article I posted wasnt the one I was thinking of, but it was at least something. Again, it came out a long time ago and I dont bookmark every article I see. This article does show that the Russians told us that Saddam was planning attacks on the US. That would mean Saddam was a threat.

 

[CptStern]

The article I posted wasnt the one I was thinking of, but it was at least something.

? that's like me posting this and claiming it supports my cause for war

 

[seinfeldrules]

? that's like me posting this and claiming it supports my cause for war

Are you blind?

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian intelligence services warned Washington several times that Saddam Hussein's regime planned terrorist attacks against the United States, President Vladimir Putin has said.

Open your eyes and take a look.

Russian special services and Russian intelligence several times received ... information that official organs of Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations," Putin said.

Its not WMD, but it definitely supports part of the US' justification for war.

Maybe the Russians agreed with us on this and not WMD, I cant remember. All I know is that their intelligence was in agreement to ours on the threat of Saddam.

 

[CptStern]

Are you blind?


Open your eyes and take a look.

Its not WMD, but it definitely supports part of the US' justification for war.

you cannot talk about one without mentioning the other ..bush pushed the idea that saddam would attack the US through the use of wmd ..that article says nothing of the sort ..it's about as vague as it is possible

 

[seinfeldrules]

..bush pushed the idea that saddam would attack the US through the use of wmd

And Putin said that Saddam planned to attack the US.

Russian special services and Russian intelligence several times received ... information that official organs of Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations," Putin said.

You realize that Saddam could have attacked without using WMD...

 

[Lemonking]

hahahahahahahahahahahahabwahahahaahaahah


LOL if you really think that, then I feel very sorry for you.

 

[CptStern]

And Putin said that Saddam planned to attack the US.

you did read the article right?

"However, Putin said there was no evidence that Saddam's regime was involved in any terrorist attacks."

You realize that Saddam could have attacked without using WMD...

ya cuz his massive armada was poised to lauch strikes on america ..they're were just itching to strike at america


please only a fool would believe iraq posed any sort of threat

 

[Absinthe]

In other news, my dick is bigger than all of yours.

 

[seinfeldrules]

you did read the article right?

"However, Putin said there was no evidence that Saddam's regime was involved in any terrorist attacks."

Up to that point. He basically meant there was no evidence Saddam was involved in 9/11 (as Bush had claimed). Read stern. He said that Saddam was planning attacks.

Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations," Putin said.

ya cuz his massive armada was poised to lauch strikes on america ..they're were just itching to strike at america

All it took was one of these

 

[Absinthe]

All it took was one of these

You mean the crude tool that was used by the hijackers of 9/11? The ones not related to Iraq?

You're right. All it takes is a few box-cutters and some guts. And since practically every nation has that capability, it's not enough to justify a war.

 

[seinfeldrules]

And since practically every nation has that capability, it's not enough to justify a war.

Did Putin tell us that Belgium was "preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations,", or was it Iraq? Damn me and my short term memory.

 

[Solaris]

How conventiant, Iran also have stanley knives

Coincidence? I think not.

 

[CptStern]

Did Putin tell us that Belgium was "preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations,", or was it Iraq? Damn me and my short term memory.

meh they didnt seem to care when the cia warned them about 9/11