36% Approval Rating For August, How Low Can It Go

[seinfeldrules]

9/11 was a **** up by everyone involved. Its foolish to blame it solely on Bush.

 

[CptStern]

didnt read the article did you ..wait a few minutes before posting

 

[seinfeldrules]

didnt read the article did you ..wait a few minutes before posting

Its obvious what it says even without reading it.

 

[CptStern]

sigh, why do I bother?

 

[seinfeldrules]

sigh, why do I bother?

What was the point of it?

 

[CptStern]

I thought it was pretty obvious what the point was


debating you is like performing in the special olympics ..win or lose, you're still ****ed

 

[No Limit]

"We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program. " (Clinton)

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow. " (Clinton) 1998

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." (Cohen, Clinton's Sec. Defense)

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." Gore

"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein's regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed." Teddy Boy

Did you not understand my question? I asked you why the British goverment was set at attacking iraq because of Bush in July of 2002 when Bush didn't ask congress until September and even as late as Jan 2003 he said he hasnt made a decision to go to war.

 

[seinfeldrules]

I thought it was pretty obvious what the point was

Had nothing to do with Russia... I mean we were just going on about that and you throw this random article in the mix?

 

[seinfeldrules]

Did you not understand my question? I asked you why the British goverment was set at attacking iraq because of Bush in July of 2002 when Bush didn't ask congress until September and even as late as Jan 2003 he said he hasnt made a decision to go to war.

And my point is that people in 1998 (long before Bush) were saying the same things he is now. That leads me to believe that it was a problem with the intelligence community, not the Presidents.

 

[CptStern]

must I explain everything? no actually I wont ..this is getting nausatingly repetitive ...and it's time to go home

 

[seinfeldrules]

must I explain everything? no actually I wont ..this is getting nausatingly repetitive ...and it's time to go home

Well then, Adios Mr. Stern. Hopefully this will be my last time on this site as I begin a new part of my life.

 

[SAJ]

edit:nm, too slow for comedy.

 

[No Limit]

And my point is that people in 1998 (long before Bush) were saying the same things he is now. That leads me to believe that it was a problem with the intelligence community, not the Presidents.

****ing dude, I am pulling my hair out by the roots from the frustration. What anyone else was saying has nothing to do with it. I am asking why Bush lied to the american people and to congress. You don't seem to be disputing that he did based on what the memo said. Remember, Clinton got impeached by your party for lying about a BJ.

 

[Kamikazie]

and these are the days of our lives...

 

[Glirk Dient]

Ahh, another post reduced to both sides calling the other ignorant and no one gaining from this. Gotta love politics forums.

 

[Absinthe]

I heard that Bush is a scientologist in disguise and his aim is to convert America into worshipping Xenu.

 

[Glirk Dient]

Liar! Bush is clearly hitlers clone and is going to start WW3.

 

[CptStern]

Ahh, another post reduced to both sides calling the other ignorant and no one gaining from this. Gotta love politics forums.

really? I thought I had a decisive win here

 

[clarky003]

http://1a.kontraband.com/show/show.asp?ID=538.. lol?

 

[Feath]

meh they didnt seem to care when the cia warned them about 9/11

CIA? I can't see anything about the CIA in that article.

http://1a.kontraband.com/show/show.asp?ID=538.. lol?

Heh, he seemed a bit tired and emotional there.

 

[Tr0n]

....or drunk. lawlz

 

[Feath]

And my point is that people in 1998 (long before Bush) were saying the same things he is now. That leads me to believe that it was a problem with the intelligence community, not the Presidents.

http://ugandandiscussions.co.uk/966/

....or drunk. lawlz

Tired and Emotional is a euphemism for "drunk". It was coined by the British satirical magazine Private Eye in 1967 in reference to Labour Cabinet minister George Brown but is now used as a stock phrase; the law of libel makes it unwise ever to directly refer to someone as drunk. It has become a widely used phrase outside the magazine.

 

[No Limit]

http://ugandandiscussions.co.uk/966/

Feath, do you deny Bush lied based on the Downing Street Minutes? Seinfeld didn't seem to come back after I asked him so I figured I can get some other opinions.

 

[CptStern]

CIA? I can't see anything about the CIA in that article.
.

doh I meant this article ..that first article was meant for another post


btw here's a very interesting audio clip ..note the date

 

[Feath]

Feath, do you deny Bush lied based on the Downing Street Minutes? Seinfeld didn't seem to come back after I asked him so I figured I can get some other opinions.

I still think it's open to interpretation. Lie is such subjective term.

 

[Feath]

doh I meant this article ..that first article was meant for another post


btw here's a very interesting audio clip ..note the date

Hmm, from what I understand about the briefing, it didn't contain very detailed information. At most it warned against hijackings at some point.

 

[CptStern]

Hmm, from what I understand about the briefing, it didn't contain very detailed information. At most it warned against hijackings at some point.

try to keep it in context of this thread ...my point was that they had more compelling info from the cia then they did from the russians ..specifically the article seinfeldrules linked to

 

[CptStern]

I still think it's open to interpretation. Lie is such subjective term.

here's all 237 lies

 

[No Limit]

I still think it's open to interpretation. Lie is such subjective term.

No, in this case there is no other interpretation, if there is I would love for someone to explain it. In July of 2002 the British government was going to fix intelligence because Bush was set on invading Iraq. This is what Blair and all his top advisors agreed on, remember, these are official minutes of a meeting. This of course would mean Bush was lying in Jan 2003 when he said he still didn't make up his mind on military action. What other interpretation is there?

Seinfeld, I would love for you to explain it too. Everytime I mention the DSM you seem to disappear for a while.

 

[Feath]

The memo does mention that they considered the posibility that Saddam would use WMDs. If we knew that there wasn't any, why would we mention this in a meeting that would never become public.

Also, I'll quote Wiki on this because they can explain it better than me: "Robin Niblett of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank, says it would be easy for Americans to misunderstand the reference to intelligence being "fixed around" Iraq policy. " 'Fixed around' in British English means 'bolted on' rather than altered to fit the policy," he says."

Being British myself, I have to agree with that.

edit: What I'm getting at is that it really is open to interpretation.

 

[SAJ]

'Fixed around' in British English means 'bolted on' rather than altered to fit the policy," he says."

Being British myself, I have to agree with that.

Also being British I would have to strongly disagree.
"Fixed around" would suggest to me that the policy was the focus and that all other considerations would have be flexable in regards to it.
Also "sexed up" did not mean that the other dossier was going to include an x-rated sub-plot.

 

[No Limit]

The memo does mention that they considered the posibility that Saddam would use WMDs. If we knew that there wasn't any, why would we mention this in a meeting that would never become public.

Also, I'll quote Wiki on this because they can explain it better than me: "Robin Niblett of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think tank, says it would be easy for Americans to misunderstand the reference to intelligence being "fixed around" Iraq policy. " 'Fixed around' in British English means 'bolted on' rather than altered to fit the policy," he says."

Being British myself, I have to agree with that.

edit: What I'm getting at is that it really is open to interpretation.

But you guys are completely missing my point. Forget the fixed intelligence part, it is extremely important but we need to concentrate on another part of it. The memo states that going to war was inevitable, this is not what Bush told the country.

 

[Feath]

No Limit, you've just said "In July of 2002 the British government was going to fix intelligence because Bush was set on invading Iraq. This is what Blair and all his top advisors agreed on, remember, these are official minutes of a meeting.".

I responded to that and then you tell me I'm missing the point and I'm talking about the wrong thing.

 

[No Limit]

No Limit, you've just said "In July of 2002 the British government was going to fix intelligence because Bush was set on invading Iraq. This is what Blair and all his top advisors agreed on, remember, these are official minutes of a meeting.".

I responded to that and then you tell me I'm missing the point and I'm talking about the wrong thing.

Sorry if I didn't seem clear, but you guys are talking about a different aspect. The part I wanted you to concentrate on for now is the set on invading Iraq part. Again, sorry if I didn't make that clear.

If you haven't read the memo please do so at:

http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/

Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action.

and

The Defence Secretary said that the US had already begun "spikes of activity" to put pressure on the regime. No decisions had been taken, but he thought the most likely timing in US minds for military action to begin was January, with the timeline beginning 30 days before the US Congressional elections.

We can go on and on with the other parts of the explosive memos from the British government in the lead up to war but lets just concentrate on the fact Bush lied to the American people when he said he hasn't made up his mind to use military force. Do you, or anyone else here, dispute this?

 

[No Limit]

Still waiting for any Bush apologist to step up and admit Bush lied. If you can't do that (you know who you are) you better have a defense for this.

 

[KoreBolteR]

every politician lies.

 

[No Limit]

every politician lies.

So you are saying Bush lied? If you are saying this can you show me another politician that lied to the same extent and lead to thousands of lives lost?

 

[KoreBolteR]

saddam lied about oil for food. kept all the food money for himself, killed people.

 

[CptStern]

saddam lied about oil for food. kept all the food money for himself, killed people.

again you havent a clue as what you're talking about ...the majority of civilians that died, died before the oil-for-food program was instated (1997) ...why do you think they set it up in the first place? ...and what does saddam lying have to do with anything? he's a crazy nutjob ...isnt that what's expected? bush on the other hand lied to start a war, his lies destroyed a nation and killed 10's of thousands of innocents

 

[No Limit]

Its kind of sad, when you mention the Downing Street Minutes suddenly all of the conservatives that were quick to tell you how Bush didn't lie disappear. come on guys, there doesn't seem to be a conservative in sight.