A Thread For UK Elections 2005

"Saddam Hussein is a tyrant who tortures and murders his own people. He poses a threat to the safety and stability of the Middle East. And he is in breach of his obligations to the UN and the international community. Saddam Hussein has the means, the mentality and the motive to pose a direct threat to our national security."

Ian Duncan Smith leader of the Tories 2003 just after voting in favour of Tony Blair’s decision to commit UK forces to war with Iraq.
Interestingly the Tories where more infavour of the war than Labour was I believe some 120 labour Mps voted against while only 16 Tory Mp's voted against
A Mori poll at the time, again these figures are off the top of my head but I believe it had some 70% of the country against. The Tories listen or care about public opinion, yeah right. :LOL:

( If these figures are not 100%, sorry they are off the top of my head,but they are in the general ball park)

Edit yeah the mori poll figures were about right here is a link

http://www.mori.com/polls/2003/iraq.shtml
 
havent read this thread in a few days, just wondering are you all gona watch question time on thursday on bbc? all the leaders will be there.
 
Which one ? the Liar who deceived parliament and lead us to war or the one who fully supported him or maybe the one who tried to use the issue to drum up as much political support for his own party as he could by sitting on the fence. :LOL:
 
baxter said:
Which one ? the Liar who deceived parliament and lead us to war or the one who fully supported him or maybe the one who tried to use the issue to drum up as much political support for his own party as he could by sitting on the fence. :LOL:
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Pretty much sums up the situation. It still annoys me that Blair is probably going to win through because most people are too blase to punish him with their (lack of) vote.

The Paxman interview with Blair as also pretty revealing. Someone as slimy as Howard or as mild-mannered as Kennedy would have been crucified for such an awful performance.
 
I think it was the Mail that ran an interesting "voters meet Blair" thing today. All of them came out convinced he was actually ok, even the Tory campaign worker...

Seriously, I don't think Labour should be punished any more than any other party for the war. I think it's pretty irresponsible to put the wrong people in power (who voted for the same thing as Blair, in the end) over one issue, too. 3 terms for Labour makes sense, and I don't think that punishing them will help things at all.
 
Kangy said:
I think it was the Mail that ran an interesting "voters meet Blair" thing today. All of them came out convinced he was actually ok, even the Tory campaign worker...

Seriously, I don't think Labour should be punished any more than any other party for the war. I think it's pretty irresponsible to put the wrong people in power (who voted for the same thing as Blair, in the end) over one issue, too. 3 terms for Labour makes sense, and I don't think that punishing them will help things at all.
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Except to prove that people don't have short memories, and you can't do what you want against the strong will of the public and expect to get away with it... Of course they should be 'punished' more than any other party - they're the Government that decided to go to war!
And a majority of the party voted for the war. So what do you mean?
 
pomegranate said:
Except to prove that people don't have short memories, and you can't do what you want against the strong will of the public and expect to get away with it... Of course they should be 'punished' more than any other party - they're the Government that decided to go to war!
And a majority of the party voted for the war. So what do you mean?
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I mean that the war was one bad decision. One. I mean, the Tories even had a bigger majority than Labour voting for the war... I don't really see why people want to linger so much on this. A cat's chance in hell would Howard, Hague or Duncan-Smith be any different on this. The thing that seperates Blair and these guys is that his government has and is doing good things for this country, unlike the latter part of the Tory years.

Not voting for Howard would clearly show that people don't have a short memory.
 
im not voting. all parties are nicey nicey, fake tan fake smiles in elections. after elections, back to boring power mad, not listening to us public , AND making us pay more taxes.
 
People linger on it because
1) they felt very strongly that going to war against Iraq was the wrong thing to do
2) the Government more or less ignored the biggest protest ever staged in the UK.
This is not simply "one bad decision". We're not talking about fibbing about your Ministerial expense account. We're not talking about, say, asking for favours for friends from the immigration services. The people supposedly representing the British public agreed to the invasion of another country when a large majority of the public stated, and practically demonstrated, that they were against such a course of action. Not to mention the fact that the pursuit of the war went against the international consensus, massively undermined the United Nations, and highlighted the UK as a target for terrorists.
I hope this helps you understand why people feel so strongly about this issue.
 
Oh, we're fully aware of why it's an issue... that's why it's all the more galling that the Tories backed the war.

Howard actually said that he agreed with the war and that it was right to oust Saddam- his argument was that he'd have told the truth about his reasons for doing it.

I think he's missed the main reason that people are turning from Blair- not the man's reasoning, but the fact we went to war at all.

The only party with an unblemished record are the Lib Dems, and they've had no experience of power and they've got no chance of winning either.
 
I might vote for Lib Dems. Not because I think they've any chance of becoming the government, but because the Tories have (up until the election was announced, heh!) been an almost completely inneffective opposition. The war was the supreme case of this. I dunno about them having no experience of power, they run many councils, including IIRC Manchester. I know this isn't the same thing as running a whole country, but still.
Besides, I don't think we can take that point as a reason not to vote for someone, otherwise we will only ever vote for Labour or the Tories, for all eternity. Which, even if you support one of them, isn't a very optimistic premise.
 
less than 10 days now, i think its pretty well 75% labour will get in again.
It seems there are quite a lot of floating voters though, the next week and 2 days should be very important to the parties.
Lots of people pissed off, lots of people still deciding.
 
I'm not saying you shouldn't vote for a party because you're convinced they won't get in- if you vote, for anyone, good, because it means you're fully entitled to complain when people squander your trust/rival party gets into power ;)

Admittedly there's a fear that excessive voting for the LDs will get the Tories into power, but looking at the most recent opinion polls, I don't think that's too much of a danger...
 
Edcrab said:
I'm not saying you shouldn't vote for a party because you're convinced they won't get in- if you vote, for anyone, good, because it means you're fully entitled to complain when people squander your trust/rival party gets into power ;)

Admittedly there's a fear that excessive voting for the LDs will get the Tories into power, but looking at the most recent opinion polls, I don't think that's too much of a danger...
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Agreed, i've seen some people say "oh i was going to vote lib dem, but it looks like labour are winning so i'll vote them" .........stupid idiots.
You must vote for your chosen party no matter what other people think of them.
In some ways i think its bad they have opinion polls really.
I don't think conservative will get in, but i'm still voting for them.

Please vote for whoever you would want in power, not who you think will be in power.
 
I thikn there's something to be said for not voting at all. Right now no party stands for my beliefs to an extend that would make me want to support them. I way well vote an independent local politician if at all so at leats i have some personal focus from my MP.
 
Don't not vote, go to vote and write on the ballot paper "None of the above"... you're going to get your voice heard more that way, if you really do think the other parties are bs, than not voting at all...
 
Edcrab said:
The only party with an unblemished record are the Lib Dems, and they've had no experience of power and they've got no chance of winning either.
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I actually find the Lib democrats spin on the war more distasteful than Tony Blair’s or Michael Howard’s.
My spin on it is they used the parliamentary vote in March 2003 to drum up support for themselves. At the time of the vote there were 53 lib dem mps in parliament, every one of them voted against. Not one abstained, not one voted for. This was against a backdrop of polls suggesting betwee70% to 80% of the nation was against.

Charles Kennedy knew full well that his parties vote would have no bearing on the final outcome, as the Tories were chomping at the bit, to commit UK forces to war.

Charles Kennedy, who now parades around on TV with his sincere look telling us all that the lib democrats voted against the war, didn’t vote on the intelligence before him, that fact that Saddam Hussan was a madman nor the issue of WMD’s. They voted on the fact there were massive public demonstrations outside and that a large percentage of the nation was against the war. A political party listening to public opinion? as if, how about using a serious national crisis for their own political gains.

He didn’t know the intelligence was incorrect, or there were no WMDs nor that the war would cost us £3 billion or the allies would end up in a bloody quagmire.

I picture him gathering his party around him and saying
“ Listen guys there’s an election in a couple of years, 80% of the country are against this war, our vote will have no bearing at all on the outcome whatsoever, lets all jump on the anti war bandwagon and vote against.”

Even more distasteful about the Lib democrats anti war stand was how they quickly switched to cheerleading when the fighting started.

Charles Kennedy 2003 “We are not an anti-war party”
“Whatever were our anxieties about the justification for war, now that military action in Iraq has begun; we all hope and pray that it can be concluded as swiftly as possible with minimal casualties. My thoughts are particularly with our British service personnel in the Gulf. I know that we, as a country, will unite in supporting them.
In this awful conflict it is vital that our armed forces know they can count on full public and parliamentary support as they go about their duty.”

Makes you wonder what would have happened had the “anti war” Lib democrates been in power and there really had been a national crisis.

Guess I won’t vote for these guys. :LOL:
 
Edcrab said:
The only party with an unblemished record are the Lib Dems, and they've had no experience of power and they've got no chance of winning either.
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I think it'd be an extremely poor idea NOT to vote for the LibDems purely on the fact that they've got little experience of being in power. If you follow that logic through, we'll only ever have Tory or LAbour foreverandeveramen. The Lib Dems are becoming a viable third option, which is, I think, a good and healthy thing for British politics.
 
oldagerocker said:
Don't not vote, go to vote and write on the ballot paper "None of the above"... you're going to get your voice heard more that way, if you really do think the other parties are bs, than not voting at all...
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how old do i have to be to vote again? lol

good idea tho oldagerocker, at least then the result would show people has the choice in front of them, and STILL didnt want to pick a party/candidate.

that should get the clear message to them that they all suck! :)
 
oldagerocker said:
Don't not vote, go to vote and write on the ballot paper "None of the above"... you're going to get your voice heard more that way, if you really do think the other parties are bs, than not voting at all...
Click to expand...

It's a nice idea to have this option on the ballot paper, but I fear it may just turn into a poll about how cynical the nation is, rather than an election.

No party is perfect, you just have to chose the one whose policies match your beliefs the most. If you really can't find one that matches you, you can abstain.
 
The Labour and LibDem ones were very funny but, frighteningly, the Tory one toned down could actually be a real ad campaign... Eeep.

"I was thinking this morning we should pop down to Heathrow and check all the foreigners for AIDS."
 
Is a frightening thought.

"Don't wake up with the Conservatives..." The Howard-esque actor was pretty sinister and OTT- deliberately so of course- and thus I could easily believe it was a Labour ad :LOL:

Ever since Culshaw and Bremner's respective shows, I can't take poor old Michael Howard seriously. Not that I ever considered him especially viable considering his past record, but now I can't get the image of him as Sweeny the Barber out of my head...
 
Edcrab said:
I can't get the image of him as Sweeny the Barber out of my head...
Click to expand...
That was absolutely hilarious - really wonderful to watch.

Does anyone know of any way to find out what way specific constituencies are leaning in the run-up to the general election? Besides looking at the previous vote results, of course; a lot's changed since then.
 
Does anyone actually care about this leaked document?
 
kirovman said:
It's a nice idea to have this option on the ballot paper, but I fear it may just turn into a poll about how cynical the nation is, rather than an election.

No party is perfect, you just have to chose the one whose policies match your beliefs the most. If you really can't find one that matches you, you can abstain.
Click to expand...

You don't need an option. Simply spoil the ballot paper and put it in the box.


Personally I find this whole election quite disgusting. The 'campaigning' seems to revolve around slandering the other parties rather than actually saying what you are going to do when you get elected. Even the policies they do talk about are only small things designed to distract people from the fact that deep down, they all plan to do the same thing.

There are also accusations of Labour party supporters planting false ballot boxes in some areas. Sabotage like this seems to be becoming more popular with more hardline supporters of some of the parties. Combined with all the smear campaigns, I think this is pretty much the end of proper democracy in the UK. It might never have been perfect, but it's never been this bad
 
Lobotomy Lobster said:
You don't need an option. Simply spoil the ballot paper and put it in the box.


Personally I find this whole election quite disgusting. The 'campaigning' seems to revolve around slandering the other parties rather than actually saying what you are going to do when you get elected. Even the policies they do talk about are only small things designed to distract people from the fact that deep down, they all plan to do the same thing.

There are also accusations of Labour party supporters planting false ballot boxes in some areas. Sabotage like this seems to be becoming more popular with more hardline supporters of some of the parties. Combined with all the smear campaigns, I think this is pretty much the end of proper democracy in the UK. It might never have been perfect, but it's never been this bad
Click to expand...

It's the American elections all over again, isn't it...

Howard says "Personality matters"

Does that include how nice your suit is, and how your hair is styled?
How superficial.

This brand of democracy is a joke. Time for a reform of the system methinks.
 
After watching Question Time, I have to say... Howard is even more of an arse than I thought he was! Blair didn't come off too well, either. Kennedy was quite good, however. I'd certainly tick Liberal Democrats come May 5th right now.
 
Kangy said:
After watching Question Time, I have to say... Howard is even more of an arse than I thought he was! Blair didn't come off too well, either. Kennedy was quite good, however. I'd certainly tick Liberal Democrats come May 5th right now.
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blair looked under the weather tbh, he looked dreadful, he was swaeting the whole interview wheras kennedy looked coolness personified, kennedy was the best imo, also what was the deal with dimbleby at the end, did blair insist on not having a cross-leader debate oe sumit?
 
jimbo118 said:
blair looked under the weather tbh, he looked dreadful, he was swaeting the whole interview wheras kennedy looked coolness personified, kennedy was the best imo, also what was the deal with dimbleby at the end, did blair insist on not having a cross-leader debate oe sumit?
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Kennedy is coolness personified.

Blair's plane got struck by lightning :D
 
Venmoch said:
We all need to vote for These Guys
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There's one standing in my constituency :) Knight Knapp Barrow. God Bless Hackney.

Even MORE ridiculously, there's a UKIP member standing where I'm at uni. Stupid UKIP.
 
el Chi said:
There's one standing in my constituency :) Knight Knapp Barrow. God Bless Hackney.

Even MORE ridiculously, there's a UKIP member standing where I'm at uni. Stupid UKIP.
Click to expand...

My Constituency where I'm voting is boring. None of the canditates have an interesting party, there's just Conservative, Scottish Green Party, Labour, Liberal Democrat, Scottish Socialist Party and SNP.

If I were to vote because home in Middlesbrough, I'd get a chance to vote for Labour, Lib Dem, Conservative, BNP, UKIP, Socialist Labour and an independant. Far more interesting choice.

I don't mind UKIP, they aren't racist, they just had being a part of Europe. Far more sensible than the BNP.
 
Far be it for me to close out this thread but the election is but days away and the time as come.It is time to cast your vote.One word is the best answer from here on in.

How will you vote ?

I will vote

Labour.
 
I will vote Lib Dem.

(God, I just wrote Labour instead of Lim Dem, and had to correct it. I hope I don't do that on the day).
 
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