AI Video

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Just saw a post over at Steam forums here.

It links to a 30 meg video you can get here having a go at the AI in HL2.

I found it pretty funny. :LOL:
 
Jesus what a bunch of selective dumbasses. Focussing on purely the bad sides and then judging that the AI is weak, while I've seen them do stuff FC and Halo couldn't dream about. Of course it has flaws, and plenty of 'em. If you place yourself to expose those weaknesses then obviously it looks stupid, but when you play normally, this kind of behaviour is not encountered that often.
 
I thought that the AI was rather horrible in HL2. Unless you've never played FarCry I don't see how you could call HL2's AI better.
 
I was pretty disappointed when I found out that you couldn't block doors. :( Oh well, its still an awesome game.
 
PvtRyan said:
Jesus what a bunch of selective dumbasses. Focussing on purely the bad sides and then judging that the AI is weak, while I've seen them do stuff FC and Halo couldn't dream about. Of course it has flaws, and plenty of 'em. If you place yourself to expose those weaknesses then obviously it looks stupid, but when you play normally, this kind of behaviour is not encountered that often.
Click to expand...


i for one agree, i think the AI is horrid, i have been playing on easy and the only time i died is when i fell down a cliff, meh, big deal, then i went to hard, wow, they still suck..

the AI is not that good, no game AI is good, Project IGI had decent AI in my opinon, or maybe it was just a hard game,, this

is not hard

JUST MY OPINION dont get all :flame: with me, but i love everything else about the game, the facial animation, the acting, the voice overs, the graphics (sure wish i had HDR though) the AI of the squad is just absolute shit though...

example, in a level in anticitizen, i have to guide them over a broken street to a part where this chick is helping heal a duded, they wont come, i have to get in there sight before they move toward me

boo
 
yah, i agreed the ai wasnt all that. farcry had some pretty decent ai. at least that game was tough.

that was my only complaint about hl2, was that it was too easy.

that video is pretty hilarious tho.
 
Actually that video does raise some good points. Essentially that if the combine don't have a direct line-of-sight on you, they will totally forget that you even exist. Being able to sneak up on a guard from behind a pill bottle just shouldn't be able to happen. The thing the video forgets is that other games' AI doesn't have to contend with physics in the same way HL2 AI does, thus at least some such bugs have to be expected. It's a tough issue.
 
Whee! Let's go out of our way to break the game!

Ever heard of playing a game the way it was meant to be played?

And anybody saying Far Cry's AI is better, get real. Far Cry merc sees you. You drop into the grass at his feet. Merc runs around in circles yelling, "Where'd he go!"
 
Weird that I never encountered sush situations, and I played it throught twice. The AI seemed REALLY good to me, off cource its not flawless but I have not played any game with better AI (And yes I have played Far Cry).

Edit: Oh and BTW I found HL2s difficulty just perfect, not frusrating hard like some other games.
 
hmm, i see they didnt go too far in the game with the movie. I really noticed a difference in AI towards the end, as they started to flank me in groups. I did play Far Cry on the high settings and I will admit that the AI was better than half life 2 in a huge open forrest (which is definately a programmers dream to implement AI).
 
Will download it once i get home. Posting so i can find thread easier.
 
you guys think farcry AI is hard, because YOU HAVE LESS HEALTH... you get shot 4,5 times and you're dead if you play with only 40 health in HL2, im sure you will find the "AI better"
 
I have to admit, I almost denounced the game inside the first three chapters, I thought the ai was just awful. Thing is, once you emerge into...whatever the first chapter with the combine was... and you start fighting actual combine, there's a huge difference.
The game was too easy though, and the ai seems a little watered down from the previews. The squad tactics lack something, they don't seem to use cover nearly as much as they should, and they never venture very far from their starting point.
 
in looking through the AI code for the combine, there are comments in reference to charging saying something along the lines of "charge at the player more frequently because physics combat is more fun at close range."

I thought the AI was pretty decent, no major problems with it. I wouldn't have minded another difficulty level or two above hard though.
 
i watched a combine shotgun trooper grenade himself today. He threw a nade at me(i didnt know) i sprinted away, and he ran over it :S very weird. Admittly the AI aint all that, but its still fun.
 
emCee-ig said:
i for one agree, i think the AI is horrid, i have been playing on easy and the only time i died is when i fell down a cliff, meh, big deal, then i went to hard, wow, they still suck..

the AI is not that good, no game AI is good, Project IGI had decent AI in my opinon, or maybe it was just a hard game,, this

is not hard

JUST MY OPINION dont get all :flame: with me, but i love everything else about the game, the facial animation, the acting, the voice overs, the graphics (sure wish i had HDR though) the AI of the squad is just absolute shit though...

example, in a level in anticitizen, i have to guide them over a broken street to a part where this chick is helping heal a duded, they wont come, i have to get in there sight before they move toward me

boo
Click to expand...

First of all: yes, the game is way too easy on hard. Second: but that has bugger all to do with AI. The AI is just crosseyed and does little damage, and die too soon, but the way they fight is just excellent. Difficulty != AI

Far Cry was hard, yes, but that had to do with the fact that they could spot AND hit you from a huge distance, not because they were smart. Only thing FC excels at is finding cover, but HL2 AI does that too, but they just use it to reload, they do know how to find it, but this way you don't get this camper-heaven AI of Far Cry, who hid behind a tree all day.

HL2 AI does really work in squads, they flank you when possible, they take turns in attacking you, they avoid FF really well.
 
they just made a movie of the worst parts! if valve fix those parts, they'd make a movie of other flawd parts! as long as it isnt PERFECT they will do this!

it is like complaining becuase your very nice car deosnt have a bumper sticker!
then once you have one complaining that is isnt good enuf, then when you get a better one STILL complaining!
 
I got a good laugh out of that.

And you all have to admit. The AI is DENSE.
Whee! Let's go out of our way to break the game!
Click to expand...
Break the game?
You have to be joking.
I have, on several occasions, sneaked up on combine soldiers, and shot them in the head, and they have ignored me.
Bad AI?
YES.
I don't care what anyone says, if an AI soldier gets shot in the head, he should react!
 
And you all have to admit. The AI is DENSE.
Click to expand...

OK, because you say so, I've just realized that all my experiences with it are irrelevant :rolleyes:
 
they should make AI learn! they game would get harder each time you play!
the more you shot it in the head, next time it will duck it's head!

but then they would complain that the ai is to hard!
 
AI isnt made so you'd never complete the game. That's not the point! The point is to slow you down not to completely stop you. If they wanted you NOT to make it through the game you wouldn't! I programmed some AI in UT2003 and we as programmers dont want AI to own players. Big deal. Make their bullets hit you once and you die. AI is fine in HL2. It can always be better but it's fine.
 
m00b said:
AI isnt made so you'd never complete the game. That's not the point! The point is to slow you down not to completely stop you. If they wanted you NOT to make it through the game you wouldn't! I programmed some AI in UT2003 and we as programmers dont want AI to own players. Big deal. Make their bullets hit you once and you die. AI is fine in HL2. It can always be better but it's fine.
Click to expand...

i didnt mean ai learning as in dam and health going up i ment it as in the ai actualy learns from it's mistaks! like they do with AI research! (if ai learned then it would be cool but to smart to beat so people would complain, then it would be to flawd and easy so they complain more!
 
I loved Far Cry to bits but you could fool the AI in that even easier than the HL2 AI. Or at least, *I* could. With Half Life 2, I was always too engrossed to ever care about trying anything like that - these aren't things that are immediately obvious and glaring or even disturbing problems. They do not affect normal gameplay.
 
Fishlore said:
I thought that the AI was rather horrible in HL2. Unless you've never played FarCry I don't see how you could call HL2's AI better.
Click to expand...

You are calling Far Cry's AI better than HL2s? What a load of bullshit :E... AI was almost non-existent in Far Cry. Half-Life 2's wasn't very special either, but taking Far crys side in such an argument is a no-win situation.
 
Yeah you can bet that MANY more would complain if AI was too good. I myself had problems passing some spots on Normal. What would happen if you couldn't pass anything? Who would play such a game? If it was as in RL you can be sure that the first metropolice would beat you with the stick and you'd never even get the pistol. :p
 
emCee-ig said:
i for one agree, i think the AI is horrid, i have been playing on easy and the only time i died is when i fell down a cliff, meh, big deal, then i went to hard, wow, they still suck..

the AI is not that good, no game AI is good, Project IGI had decent AI in my opinon, or maybe it was just a hard game,, this

is not hard

JUST MY OPINION dont get all :flame: with me, but i love everything else about the game, the facial animation, the acting, the voice overs, the graphics (sure wish i had HDR though) the AI of the squad is just absolute shit though...

example, in a level in anticitizen, i have to guide them over a broken street to a part where this chick is helping heal a duded, they wont come, i have to get in there sight before they move toward me

boo
Click to expand...




Project IGI and good AI in the same sentance...



Does not Compute!


Seriously.... if you thought that IGI had good AI you know nothing whatsoever about AI.

Me and my brother used to beat that game by knowing the routines the AI used to try and beat us... and then use it against them.

The enemies were so predictable we managed to get through the last level on hard difficulty without looseing one bit of health.

No joke.




Anyway!

As for HL2's AI, I found it to be generally very impresive with the odd fault here and there.... but thats expected. Its not gona be perfect is it. :)
 
but the way they fight is just excellent.
Click to expand...
Not for me. I've played on all 3 difficulty levels. On all 3, they just charged me and ended up getting mowed down.
I've heard that defensive players have a better experience with a smarter AI. But if you're aggresive, the AI will perform like crap.
OK, because you say so, I've just realized that all my experiences with it are irrelevant
Click to expand...
*ahem*
Try getting out of the LOS of a combine soldier and shoot it in the head, like they did in the video. Then tell me the AI isn't dense.
AI isnt made so you'd never complete the game. That's not the point! The point is to slow you down not to completely stop you. If they wanted you NOT to make it through the game you wouldn't! I programmed some AI in UT2003 and we as programmers dont want AI to own players. Big deal. Make their bullets hit you once and you die. AI is fine in HL2. It can always be better but it's fine.
Click to expand...
Slow me down? Why not stop me? I was only slowed by the AI just to make sure they were all dead.

EDIT: Note to all, I'm not claiming that I am l33t or anything of that nature.
I just believe that the AI was too stupid to be praised.
 
I get the feeling that people would have been more impressed by HL2's AI if the combine ran faster... Generally you've killed them before they've had a chance to do anything interesting. In Half-Life 1, for example, the grunts ran quite fast, making their movement to and from cover seem much more impressive.

The AI in HL2 is, in my opinion, very well crafted. There are of course flaws, but every game suffers from those. I remember hiding behind something in Far Cry, picking off enemies as they ALL, one by one, ran into EXACTLY the same position to look for me, oblivious to the fact that I was killing anyone who ventured there.
 
I remember hiding behind something in Far Cry, picking off enemies as they ALL, one by one, ran into EXACTLY the same position to look for me, oblivious to the fact that I was killing anyone who ventured there.
Click to expand...
Notice that the exact same thing happens in the video.
 
Not for me. I've played on all 3 difficulty levels. On all 3, they just charged me and ended up getting mowed down.
I've heard that defensive players have a better experience with a smarter AI. But if you're aggresive, the AI will perform like crap.
Click to expand...

This was what I was planning to say. And also the reason why a less underpowered AI (ie: higher difficulty) could benefit the AI.

When you look at combine soldiers fighting rebels, they handle it all very well, why? Well, the rebels will never charge the AI without themselves being in the majority. The combine AI isn't meant for defeating charging players, it's meant for long firefights and tactical thinking, so when you rush up to them and fire a shotgun point blank in their face, they'll go down easy.

This is where a higher difficulty comes in, if the AI does more damage and is more accurate, the player will less likely just charge up to them, because he'll die. That will give the AI more time to look good and do tactical stuff.

To me, only thing that the video is correct about with a normal playstyle, is the AI walking to the bodies of their dead buddies, it's stupid. Why Valve added this (it was added, it's not something they lack, but it was added for a reason) is beyond me.
 
I don't see why creeping up on an enemy and shooting them in the head isn't part of a "normal" playstyle. Seems perfectly normal to me.
 
lammmbda said:
you guys think farcry AI is hard, because YOU HAVE LESS HEALTH... you get shot 4,5 times and you're dead if you play with only 40 health in HL2, im sure you will find the "AI better"
Click to expand...
This is an excellent point. Most people wrongly equivocate "difficult to kill" AI with "good" AI.
 
the ai is easy, but your right, thats beside the point


the AI is AWFUL....


seriosly, spawn a barney to fight a zombie, give him a SMG.... he will run up to the zombie point blank (as opposed to staying away) and spray, and die....



spawn some rebels to fight the combine, they dont find cover, they dont do anything, they stand in place and shoot, they only move when they reload, and they move at random....


at times they end up point blank (they seem to want to get as close as possible), shooting at eachother...

no stratagy, just stop and shoot, if someone shoots back, dont find cover, keep shooting, die.... thats not easy AI, thats bad AI... especally when they said at the E3's that it was so awsome, finding cover, sneaking (in barracade), it just ended up being bad (i thought Hl1's AI was better, thats not a flame, somehow it did more then just "stand still and shoot")
 
The A.I. was OK.

Sure the game is amazing and all, but the A.I. wasn't one of the things. Valve ranted about the A.I. being all dynamic and all - but TBH it was heavily scripted for the most part.
 
I don't think hard is supposed to make the AI smarter. If you look at the hard description it says it makes your weapons less effective.
 
Reaperman said:
the ai is easy, but your right, thats beside the point


the AI is AWFUL....


seriosly, spawn a barney to fight a zombie, give him a SMG.... he will run up to the zombie point blank (as opposed to staying away) and spray, and die....



spawn some rebels to fight the combine, they dont find cover, they dont do anything, they stand in place and shoot, they only move when they reload, and they move at random....


at times they end up point blank (they seem to want to get as close as possible), shooting at eachother...

no stratagy, just stop and shoot, if someone shoots back, dont find cover, keep shooting, die.... thats not easy AI, thats bad AI... especally when they said at the E3's that it was so awsome, finding cover, sneaking (in barracade), it just ended up being bad (i thought Hl1's AI was better, thats not a flame, somehow it did more then just "stand still and shoot")
Click to expand...

when you spawn npc's the ai wont be as good! test ai on npc that were already there and it might work better! i've heard lots of people saying that spawning was messin ai up
 
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