America, Iraq and the crimes of the 'coalition'

[The Mullinator]

Brain washing can also be subtle - like the examples of corporate media I have mentioned, which Republicans honestly believe that there is any other option than complete Laissez Faire in America? Hence the reason they criticise Europe for being 'cradle-to-grave' states simply based upon the fact they have been indoctrinated by the media that inidivdualism and prosperity go hand in hand while mutual responsibility has no place in a free system.

And there are many americans who disagree with what has been said, I think alot of the average working Americans (but I can't speak for them) will grudgingly agree that a Laissez Faire system in the US hurts them. The media that leans more to the left could also be accused of "brain-washing" since they have been giving biased reports as well. Neither the right-winged or the left-winged governments or media is innocent.

 

[bigun]

i'm no fan of israel either, but all this "brain-washing" talk makes you sound like a troll bigun.

I fail to see how it does, are i am not referring to brain washing in the conventional sense, i.e. sitting somebody down in a chair and basically remodelling thier mind. I am talking about what is reported and therefore what the people believe, people do not question what is written in the newspapers, or said on the Television - they take it as fact, because they believe in an institutionalised democracy there is no such thing as propoganda, which, of course is entirely false.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

I fail to see how it does, are i am not referring to brain washing in the conventional sense

you're missing the point. it's simple: not everyone who disagrees with you is categorically "brain-washed", as your postings seem to contend. if, as your last post states, you don't mean brain-washing "in the conventional sense", then don't use that phrase.

 

[bigun]

I don't see another word in the dictionary for 'unconventional brain washing - done in a more subtle tone' - and when you think about it, it is the same result whatever type of brainwashing it is.

 

[Element Alpha]

If you know that something as little as a piece of music can affect your behavior in some way, you have to admit watching tv everyday will have an impact on your thinking. And if you don't, you're just plain stupid(as in "not using the old noodle")

Of course the media feeds you spoonwise with all their crap. You think it's a coincidence that all shows are the same? No you don't.

I disagree with everyone in this thread. Use your head please.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

I don't see another word in the dictionary for 'unconventional brain washing - done in a more subtle tone' - and when you think about it, it is the same result whatever type of brainwashing it is.

so you do mean brain-washing "in the conventional sense" after all? just not using 'manchurian candidate' methods.. whatever. regardless, to presume that you are so knowledgable and infallible that anyone who doesn't see things your way is brain-washed is ludicrous. if you are that knowledgable and infallible, you certainly haven't demonstrated it yet, but i'll keep an open mind to the idea.

obviously, everyone knows that our immediate thoughts, and eventually beliefes and decision-making is affected by the events and information that we are exposed to. however, how are you any less brain-washed than anyone else? aren't you exposed to media of any sort? if so, what makes you immune to their insidious influence? is it conceivable that someone can have an opinion different from yours and not be a mind-slave to fox news corp?

 

[Element Alpha]

If you put all that brainwash talk aside, you'll eventually see what politics are about. Disputes about politics are futile. Everyone knows what the right thing to do is. The only problem is that it's different for everyone of us. So each party tries to make best with wat power it has. The result is the world as we see it today. There are no conspiracies. There are only clues that lead us to believe that some things were staged. Why? By whom? There are no answers to those questions. Only by looking at the process, ie. by asking "how" (like in "how did it come to this") will you find what we're looking for, the best way to march ahead if you will. "How" is the result of all the agenda's of whoever are the involved. And there is nothing as random as the summ of the wills of all those people in power, that bring us to the result we see today.

And to all those that argue about petty things: You're talking about the lifes of hundreds of thousands of people throughout the world. You want a reason for all this? You want to blame someone? Take a logical approach maybe? forget it, you're screwed before you even begin. You can only collect the facts as they happened.

If capitalism is required because people won't do shit unless they can have profit, how come we don't take into account that people won't do shit for other reasons too, but we don't take those seriously? Answer me that one, I really ask you to.

Peace out

 

[Pogrom]

seriously though, what IS it with you people and bashing the forces in Iraq. 99% of you seem to ignore the hundereds of coalition forces killed by Iraqis. Rather then blaming the person that pulled the trigger, you blamb Bush.

"Oh! Lets spend a month dissing 4 US soldiers that abused a few Iraqi PRISONERS (read, the guys trying to kill us), and ignore the ambush attacks, the beheadings, the dragging through the streets dancing butchery of the Iraqi extreamist!"

Well, actually that is a misleading statement. Red Cross estimates that 75-80% of the prisoners in Abu Grahib were innocent bystanders.

They were simply swept up by the US when the soldiers decided that there were some militants around. Most of them were held without charge, abused, tortured (yes, it WAS torture) for over a year. Some of them were even killed.

And now reports are surfacing of sexual abuse of a young girl, and the anal raping of an underage Iraqi teenage boy.

I'm not saying applaud the militants. But they aren't attacking because they hate freedom, hate America and love to maim and dismember. They are attacking because they want their country to be free of American oppression (as they see it).

Many have a problem with the US coming in and telling them what to do. The US wants to set up a US-friendly democratic government - using the American democratic model. But what if the country CHOOSES to become another Islamic Republic, like Iran?

What if the people DECIDE that's the life they want? Do you think the US will stand for that?

 

[Maskirovka]

is it conceivable that someone can have an opinion different from yours and not be a mind-slave to fox news corp?

ha...good ol' fox...

they just had a "call-in" segment on their morning show. the callers were supposed to grade bush's speech of last night. all 3 callers were women.

the first caller gave bush's speech an "A+" and the way she put things, she might as well have just been reading bush's speech verbatim. the 2nd caller was from Michigan (about 20 mins drive from me, actually) and she agreed with the first caller and then went on to say how we have lots of A-Rabs in Michigan and how "it's horrible all the things they do". the last caller said she liked bush and she did have some small criticism that i can't even remember.

and it was right after they had a republican senator on. Orin Hatch from Utah...all 3 anchors kissed his ass the whole time and only asked questions that allowed him to say whatever he wanted in response. all 3 call-in ladies then wholly agreed with everything he said, etc.

it's fun to laugh at how biased it is until you realize how many people watch it and get all their news from the one source. i just think you have to get your news from about 10 different sources before you can consider yourself even partially informed...but i'd bet most people just watch one station

 

[CptStern]

it's the mccarthy witchhunts all over again, but this time it's arabs not communists

"then went on to say how we have lots of A-Rabs in Michigan and how "it's horrible all the things they do" "

she needs some sense kicked into her

 

[Maskirovka]

it's the mccarthy witchhunts all over again, but this time it's arabs not communists

"then went on to say how we have lots of A-Rabs in Michigan and how "it's horrible all the things they do" "

she needs some sense kicked into her

lol yes...i mean...i could understand her anger if her kid got killed by a marauding pack of iraqi-americans and an arab guy stole her job and an arab woman stole her husband...but she didn't list any of those things...she just said "it's horrible all the things they do"....which just means she hasn't ever seen an arab person except like...at the grocery store...

i watched a dateline-type documentary thing in class one time where they were studying a community and how it was dealing with demographic changes. an all-white school was gaining more and more black kids, and tons of the white people started moving away from the area.

they studied how the white people believed that crime was increasing and that gang activity was increasing...stuff like that. one woman was afraid to go to the grocery store because she was afraid of the black people that were going there. they followed her there with a camera and sat in the car with her. and she's pointing out these black families walking into the store going "SEE!!". when all they're doing is ****ing buying food. they weren't teenage black kids hanging out listening to loud music and brandishing weaopns...just family-types going in and out...buying food. and the lady was scared to death...she wouldn't get out of her SUV.

so the show went and interviewed the local police chief and asked what crime was like and were there gangs and are there more crimes among blacks, etc... the chief said crime was down like 40% over the last 2 years and that crimes among black people were much much lower than whites in the area.

yet when they interviewed all the white families that were moving away or planning to move away, they all thought the neighborhood was going to shit...and half of them hadn't even bothered to meet their new black neighbors.

the thing was like 2 hours long and it was ridiculous...2 hours of scared white people being retarded.

then my aunt who lives in north carolina called me and we were talking about jobs and stuff (i just graduated college) and she's telling me how the mexicans are taking all the jobs in her area and how the mexicans are taking over and how she's pissed about spanish labels and blah blah why can't the mexicans learn english and blah blah. then i told her that there are more hispanic people in the US than black people now and she had no idea...and it made her even more afraid.

i asked her if she knew of anyone that lost a job to a hispanic person or anything like that and she said no....no big surprise there....she also repeatedly told me that she isn't racist or bigoted or anything.

now the same bullshit is happening with arabs. people just make stuff up and become afraid for absolutely no reason. i hope everyone here is at least smart enough to think for themselves.

 

[CptStern]

dear god it's worse than I thought...I wonder if white power groups saw an influx of new members after 9/11. It's scary that we still have ignorance and fear around race issues in the 21 st century.

 

[bigun]

Could people living in America please tell me the change in opinion towards Arabs concerning 9/11. Have you expierienced any racism 1st hand, I need this information for a speech I am doing about the War on Terrorism in General in Assembly at my school.

On an ironic note, notice how there were calls to bomb the Middle-East after the Oklahoma City Bombing, and that it probably would have gone ahead if McVeigh had not been caught.

Don't forget that the US itself is a fundamentalist religious system, not by the state, but by popular culture. Gown down to the Southern States and tell me that America isn't a Fundamentalist Religious country. Not that there is anything wrong with Religious fundamentalism, it doesn't necessarily mean people who fundamentally stick to religious believes commit terrorist crimes. Both in America and Muslim countries.

Also dont forget the US is a well known sponsor of terrorism
Such examples include:
- Afghanistan Trap (Breznivski)
- Bombing of the Al-Sahif Pharmaceutal Plant in Sudan (Then realised this was actually a real pharmaceutical plant - producing 60% of The Sudan's vaccinations for Malaria. It didnt help that the US ordered all Aid Agencies out of the Country - The estimated death toll related to the bombing of the plant - around 50,000 people.)
- Or how about the CIA's sponsoring of a Truck bomb outside a Mosque in Algeria - A proven historical fact, not a conspiracy theory. The bomb was meant to take out a Cleric who the CIA considered 'troublesome' - It ended up killing 50 civilians.
- Nicaragua, and the crippling of the Nicaraguan economy.
- And finally what is the only country that has been accused of International Terrorism by the WC? Why, The US of course! Subsequently the US vetoed a UN Resolution calling on all countries to obide by International Law, they were joined by Israel.

 

[CptStern]

here are the charges brought against george bush sr's admin by the international war crimes tribunal:

http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-index.htm

 

[bigun]

Thanks for the link.