America : The Arrogant Empire

[Korgoth]

We (America) are falling... Its the cycle of life when it comes to government/country... Once your allowed to be on top, you'll only be there for so long then its someone elses' turn. Our time is running out, and our leadership is getting desperate and not really helping anything...

 

[Korgoth]

I think its more along the lines that criticising the president is starting to get old. Anyone who's gonna get it has already gotten it.

If you were to pay a body guard to protect you, and you wound up shot, wouldn't you reconsider his paycheck?

EDIT: (sorry for the double post :frog: )

 

[ShadowFox]

Yes, our government and our people are arrogant. But that has always been the case. When the USSR was a superpower, they were arrogant. When the British controlled half the world, they were arrogant. When the Catholic church controlled most of Europe, they were arrogant. When the Rome controlled the Med. Sea, they were arrogant. When the Chinese dynasties were at their height, they were arrogant and they are becoming arrogant again.

The fact is, whenever an area is the biggest power in the world, they are arrogant. I don't support it, but history proves it is not something new.

 

[Sprafa]

Yes, our government and our people are arrogant. But that has always been the case. When the USSR was a superpower, they were arrogant. When the British controlled half the world, they were arrogant. When the Catholic church controlled most of Europe, they were arrogant. When the Rome controlled the Med. Sea, they were arrogant. When the Chinese dynasties were at their height, they were arrogant and they are becoming arrogant again.

The fact is, whenever an area is the biggest power in the world, they are arrogant. I don't support it, but history proves it is not something new.

Read the article. Part IV is dedicated to a way to brake the cicle, to keep America in the top.

 

[Sprafa]

Sorry Sprafa, but you can get off your soap box cause I dont need you, or any other person preaching to me just how messed up our counrty is. I freakin live here, and if I want to deal with s*hit like this I could go talk to the people who live next door. Who, like me have to deal with FAR MORE PROBLEMS THE WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD THINKS OF OUR PRESIDENT!!

Gimmie a freakin break.

You know there is also something about loyalty. Allthough I may not agree with MANY things about our Pres, I still hold the ideals and principles that make this country like no other. As far as I'm conscerned if you are not part of the solution your part of the freakin problem. So unless you have a solution SHUT THE HELL UP!

Please calm down. Everything I want is a disciplined debate or none at all.

I put my head on the plate for this one. Please for your and my sake, calm down.

 

[Dedalus]

i've just been re-reading part 2. it's amazing when you think about it. FDR and Truman did everything they could to improve the world together. that just amazes me. i never knew there were people in the 20th century capable of selfless acts like that.

but then you get the rest of the article talking about how everything has been dismantled.

it's kind of like a person, who is the brightest, strongest and richest. they reach out and try to improve their friends. and the world gets better. but one day they get burned pretty bad, and they retreat into a defensive posture, and shut off all links to the outside world and treat everyone with suspicion and paranoia.

kind of all makes sense when it's put into words for you.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

That's a damn good article, and I don't think anyone should judge it without reading the entire thing. Very enlightening and, IMO, entirely correct.

And to those complaining: it's expressly pro-american. The article is concerned that America is losing power, and puts forward ways of becoming stronger and better-liked.

 

[KidRock]

I guess jumping on the I HATE AMERICA bangwagon is in this year


I HATE FRANCE!

"you moron hating france is so last year"

 

[Korgoth]

I guess jumping on the I HATE AMERICA bangwagon is in this year


I HATE FRANCE!

"you moron hating france is so last year"

You didn't even glance at the article did you?
(even more funnier is the sequence in which this was posted )
go back and actually read the article kidrock, its NOT anti American...

 

[KidRock]

You didn't even glance at the article did you?
(even more funnier is the sequence in which this was posted )
go back and actually read the article kidrock, its NOT anti American...

:afro: L O L

 

[ShadowFox]

I guess jumping on the I HATE AMERICA bangwagon is in this year


I HATE FRANCE!

"you moron hating france is so last year"

You are either an idiot/republican, or 10 years old.

 

[KidRock]

You are either an idiot/republican, or 10 years old.

OR BOTH lol

I am voting for nader this year.

 

[CptStern]

You are either an idiot/republican, or 10 years old.

you're giving him too much credit; he'd have to be familiar with the issues if he's a republican

 

[Korgoth]

i still want on the "i hate America" bangwagon that sounds sexeh!!!
(sorry couldn't resist )

 

[KidRock]

you're giving him too much credit; he'd have to be familiar with the issues if he's a republican

haha OUCH dont sugar coat it sternyy :farmer:

 

[CptStern]

haha OUCH dont sugar coat it sternyy :farmer:

I just want to get to the bottom of your dislike of france. I mean, did all 66 million frenchmen collectively slap you in the face or is it something inbred?

 

[Korgoth]

its the croissant!

 

[KidRock]

I just want to get to the bottom of your dislike of france. I mean, did all 66 million frenchmen collectively slap you in the face or is it something inbred?

I dont mind a frenchmen they are OK in my book.

 

[ShadowFox]

I am voting for nader this year.

So you are an idiot. Congratulations.

 

[KidRock]

NADER IS NUMBER 1! if you dont vote for nader your a masterbater

 

[Korgoth]

nothing wrong with that.... its a hell of a lot cheaper than my usual... nevermind

 

[B.Calhoun]

no you don't speak for the vast majority. don't put words into other people's mouths.

He speaks for me on this one...

 

[manny_c44]

Europe will be pacified when Bush is ousted from office and Kerry replaces him. Europeans seem to desperately desire some sort of control in American politics, so when the anti-bush league is appeased by Kerry (who is basically the same person and will make no substantial change to any policy) their favor will swing back. Remember Clinton was real big in Europe, for no real reason, and likewise anyone who doesn't resemble George Bush will be a big change for the better in Europe's mind. ***this scenario assumes Kerry wins, but who knows who will****

Basically everything is arbitrary and Europe will remain fickle, as it has been for all time. Real problems of aggression are more likely to come from India/Pakistan conflicts or North Korea, not this Iraqi conflict.

Also, that article is way too short for its subject matter, as whole books have been written on this and give a more clear and balanced picture.

 

[Cyanide]

Even though I am American, I have no real problem with all the anti-americanism in the world. Any attempt to "gang up" on America would be a huge mistake for the entire world. Not to mention the loss of life, imagine what would happen to the world if the richest most economically powerful country in the world just stopped trading over night. Imagine if all the money that goes out of the US to the rest of the world suddenly ceased to be worth anything. Imagine if all the foriegn investers suddenly lost all their money because the US economy collapsed. Imagine how much knowledge would be lost if all the research and developement that goes on in the US stopped going on. It would basicly plunge the world into the dark ages. The US isn't going anywhere for a long long time. Far too much of the world is invested in America for anything to actually be done about our singular position at the top. At least as far as tearing us down goes. Somebody else is more than welcome to build themselves up though.

 

[KiNG]

this was informative. it wasnt really anti-american at all. i infact agree with it. and im very much pro-american. ty for the read.

 

[KiNG]

keep an open mind, the article has many points one of the main ones being helping the world and establishing stonger and more stable relationships with other contries is in the best interests of america as well as the world. and if we dont america will be a once great nation.

fyi:couldnt edit last message. dont like 15 min rule.

 

[Sprafa]

I'm glad you kept it clean guys, and that most of you are actually reading the article.

It's openly pro-american and it's greater purpose is to brake the cycle that inevitably will lead to the fall of America as all the other empires, please read the article before you post.

 

[Sprafa]

I've made a new sig thanks to the article.

 

[SFLUFAN]

I agree with Pat Buchanan when he wrote that America is a "republic, not an empire" and he (and other conservatives) have been very vocal in criticizing the "neo-conservatives" of the Bush administration.

I too am a Republican but I'm not a neo-conservative, nor do I agree with Pat Buchanan very much but on this issue he is dead right. I hope the rest of the world realizes that not all conservatives/Republicans are in favor of the neo-conservative agenda.

 

[Sprafa]

I agree with Pat Buchanan when he wrote that America is a "republic, not an empire" and he (and other conservatives) have been very vocal in criticizing the "neo-conservatives" of the Bush administration.

I too am a Republican but I'm not a neo-conservative, nor do I agree with Pat Buchanan very much but on this issue he is dead right. I hope the rest of the world realizes that not all conservatives/Republicans are in favor of the neo-conservative agenda.

Read the article?

 

[SFLUFAN]

Yes I did. Thank you for posting it. Fareed Zakaria is an absolutely brilliant analyst and writer and I highly endorse his last book "The Future of Freedom".

He is absolutely correct on his analysis of the Bush administration and its neo-con folly. I far preferred the style of administration advocated by his father. As I said, not all conservatives/Republicans are in favor of the neo-cons. Several from his father's administration (Brent Scrowcroft, Laurance Eagleburger, Colin Powell) urged caution in dealing with Iraq but the neo-cons of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Pearle (I even doubt the loyalty of the last two - Wolfowitze and Pearle - to the United States) had the President's ear.

As much as I hate the thought of doing so, I'll be voting for Kerry in November. It goes against every fiber in my being to vote for someone who I feel is a little too leftist for my tastes but I cannot, as a loyal American who wants to see my country remain strong and engaged with the world, cast my vote in favor of the neo-cons of the Bush Administration.

I may be a Republican but I'm loyal to my country first. My party comes much further down the list.

 

[Sprafa]

Yes I did. Thank you for posting it. Fareed Zakaria is an absolutely brilliant analyst and writer and I highly endorse his last book "The Future of Freedom".

He is absolutely correct on his analysis of the Bush administration and its neo-con folly. I far preferred the style of administration advocated by his father. As I said, not all conservatives/Republicans are in favor of the neo-cons. Several from his father's administration (Brent Scrowcroft, Laurance Eagleburger, Colin Powell) urged caution in dealing with Iraq but the neo-cons of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Pearle (I even doubt the loyalty of the last two - Wolfowitze and Pearle - to the United States) had the President's ear.

As much as I hate the thought of doing so, I'll be voting for Kerry in November. It goes against every fiber in my being to vote for someone who I feel is a little too leftist for my tastes but I cannot, as a loyal American who wants to see my country remain strong and engaged with the world, cast my vote in favor of the neo-cons of the Bush Administration.

I may be a Republican but I'm loyal to my country first. My party comes much further down the list.

You're a great Republican. In the words of a British diplomat :

Everyone's sad in America. My Republican friends are sad they'll have to vote for Bush, and my Democrat friends are sad they'll have to vote for Kerry...

Still, I think Kerry is still better than Bush (for God's sake, no one turns this into a Bush debate!)

 

[SFLUFAN]

"You're a great Republican"

Thank you for the compliment but I'd much rather just be a great American

 

[JimmehH]

Heheh. Neo-con. Sounds like something from Transformers.

 

[SFLUFAN]

Speaking of Transformers...WOO HOO - they're making a live action movie

Ah yes but back on topic...neo-cons are a special breed of Transformer - instead of changing into a vehicle, they change into a robotic human who has the amazing ability to turn the world against a great nation

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Even though I am American, I have no real problem with all the anti-americanism in the world. Any attempt to "gang up" on America would be a huge mistake for the entire world. Not to mention the loss of life, imagine what would happen to the world if the richest most economically powerful country in the world just stopped trading over night. Imagine if all the money that goes out of the US to the rest of the world suddenly ceased to be worth anything. Imagine if all the foriegn investers suddenly lost all their money because the US economy collapsed. Imagine how much knowledge would be lost if all the research and developement that goes on in the US stopped going on. It would basicly plunge the world into the dark ages. The US isn't going anywhere for a long long time. Far too much of the world is invested in America for anything to actually be done about our singular position at the top. At least as far as tearing us down goes. Somebody else is more than welcome to build themselves up though.

You do know that that mindset is exactly the problem that the article is so concerned with, don't you?

The idea that the US's sheer size and influence are assets that should be used to leave its allies subservient is putting the US in peril. The US could very well forfeit all its foreign relations if this trend continues.

 

[Sprafa]

Speaking of Transformers...WOO HOO - they're making a live action movie

Ah yes but back on topic...neo-cons are a special breed of Transformer - instead of changing into a vehicle, they change into a robotic human who has the amazing ability to turn the world against a great nation

Yeah, I would appreciate if this is always kept on topic.

 

[Yakuza]

Hey Sprafa,

I need to apologize for my rude and immature post the other day. I shouldn't have commented the way that I did. I like others did not read the long posts of information you provided, I was simply reacting to the thread title. Regardless my post was inapropriate to say the least and I seek your forgivness.

Again I appologize,
Shawn

 

[Top Secret]

Jesus ****ing ******. You guys want to stop it with all of the anti-American threads? Seriously, just grow up. You think we're so bad? Look at history "Mate". Don't bitch at us man. I'm so damned sick of the anti-american stuff. It's child-ish. I never intend to say that America is the "best" at everything, nor do I think that's true. But I wish the world would seriously just back the **** off. 99.99% of us lead peaceful lives. We drive to work, go to school, hang out with friends, try to get laid, etc etc. Sound familiar? All of those articles make America sound like a fascist (sp?) goverment. That every morning we line up and salute our *great* leader and all walk around with pins on that say "Down with the middle east!". The rest of the world is being ignorant, not us. And America is not arrogant.

You do know that that mindset is exactly the problem that the article is so concerned with, don't you?

The idea that the US's sheer size and influence are assets that should be used to leave its allies subservient is putting the US in peril. The US could very well forfeit all its foreign relations if this trend continues.

What's wrong with the mindset? He's right. I'm not saying the world would stop, but a lot of shit would happen to the 1st worlds economy if the U.S. was to suddenly dissappear. Japan would crumble, because that's where they get all of their raw resources. But I'm not going to be arrogant, because I realise that if JAPAN were to crumble, America would be in a shit hole for a while. Why? Because that's where a shitload of our processed goods come from. The world is a ****ing network, it's not the WORLD and then the U.S.

Stupid thread, but not enough to not warrant a post.

*Edit*

And you wonder why we're so aggressive? It's because we have to put up with shit like this thread every ****ing day. America doesn't push, we push back. It's more of a bash really.

 

[CptStern]

I bet my life testicle that you didnt read the article

edit: TopSecret if you get this thread closed and Sprafa banned a lot people here will be really pissed at you ...read the damn article