American soldiers crushing iraqi car

I too hate threads like this. I guess thats one thing we agree on... :p





I dont really know enough about whats going on in iraq to comment on idividual cases of who started what. The point of my posts is to try and get people to understand that the people of iraq deserve the same treatment as those in our fortunate countries and that the behaviour of the few is most unaceptable and also that it is not representative of the majority on either side.



In addition I stand by me supporting the war.

I know perfectly well the government knew they wernt going to find any weapons of mass destruction. I also know the governments dont really care if they are liberators of not. They had their own reasons.

The reason I support the war is because at the end of it I hope to see a free iraq where the people have their country back.
 
I agree too I hate these threads. it stresses me out a lil :p.. clam calm ... aaa Im calm :)

but im not too sure wheither supporting a war with alterior motives is the wisest and most noble of choices. but its Bush we should be moaning to about that .. not each other.:D
 
"getting in a stupid debate means being someone like you who has no buisness but to swear and fill his post with starts ***** because he can't live without saying cuss words.

I don't mind getting in a debate.. but not a stupid one."

i havent said one curse word this whole debate, i just spoke my mind, in which people here take it the wrong way, or dont read the posts carefully. That, and yeah, im not the best person at putting my thoughts into words, but when someone sees that i have said something that sounds racist i quickly re type the same meaning but differenlty so it doesnt sound like im being racist, becuase im not.

Edit: Oh god, you see what you did, you say something and i start up again.
 
If I had been in Iraq for a couple of months and had seen my friends blown to shit, contractors tortured and a angry mob protesting against America every time something bad happended regardless of who did it, without somone to keep me sane I would be going slightly mad by now. I could probably kill somone in cold blood in the right conditions, I have wanted to kill certain people before and if given the chance I would do now, I would probably regret it but i would do it.

If I was a deeply religeous muslim watching America invade a muslim country and listening to the propganda fed to me by extremeists I would probably be ready to commit acts of terrorism.

I can't be bothered to argue about who is right and wrong (on subjects similiar to this atleast) because the person with the most persistence and verbal talent will win, also as I have just pointed out I could do some of these things with the right enviroment, so judgeing these people by there morality and decideing who is right based on that is highly hypocriticle and pointless. Instead I choose to take a look at what is best for me and those who I care about, although I care about inocent Iraqi's I don't care about them that much compared to people I know and of course myself. So Liberating Iraq isn't important.

What is best for me is the UK and America never went to Iraq and instead we went looking for oil in the antartic, it may ruin it but my welfare is more important. Plus Extremeists the world over won't have as many reasons to hate us.
 
I'm not talking sides here, but the way some of you are talking it sounds as if you think coalition forces are going out of their way in order to kill innocent Iraqi's.

The children previously mentioned who have been killed in this conflict are, I hate to use the phrase, but, collateral damage. Unfortunately civilian casualties will take place, in any conflict of this nature.

Not taking into account mindless acts as in the posted video, why can't these Iraqi insurgents realise that they have been beaten? Continuing this conflict is serving no useful purpose, we have already been told the coalition forces will not back down until these groups have been put to rest. If these insurgents were to realise that Iraq is all but 'conquered' (if that's the correct word) and give up their 'crusade' against occupying forces then these terrible civilian deaths would be significantly reduced.
 
there were countless cases of soldiers shooting unarmed civilians at various checkpoints, in fact the US tried to give money to the families of those that were killed.
 
because at the end of it I hope to see a free iraq where the people have their country back.
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That's why I gave the benefit of the doubt.

Like you said, you don't know much, and alot of people don't really know much. For all they care thier country is at war, and they support thier troops no matter what. I think you are not one of them, but you still don't know, and still think the war is good. Oh well.

Maybe a little something about our culture .. you know .. blowing oneself up.
It's not that we are stupid, but we think dignity is more important than life. Out attitude is one of "What do I need to live if I am going to live like a pig? I better die dignified, in the battle field, than live humiliated."

You might think this is stupid, but we think it's stupid to think otherwise, to think "All I want is to live, no matter what happens to the world, I just want to live." Not saying that the west thinks this way .. but we give "my dignity" a priority over "my life".

epyon,,,
i havent said one curse word this whole debate,
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maybe it wasn't you, but there was atleast one person who did it.
i just spoke my mind, in which people here take it the wrong way, or dont read the posts carefully. That, and yeah, im not the best person at putting my thoughts into words, but when someone sees that i have said something that sounds racist i quickly re type the same meaning but differenlty so it doesnt sound like im being racist, becuase im not.
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That's why I don't want to get in stupid debates.
 
CptStern said:
there were countless cases of soldiers shooting unarmed civilians at various checkpoints, in fact the US tried to give money to the families of those that were killed.
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If those soldiers shot Iraqi civilians without warrant as you seem to be suggesting, then that constitutes as a war crime and those soldiers should be court marshalled to the full extent of the military law.

Nothing constitutes the murder(which is what it is) of innocents.
 
mrchimp said:
What is best for me is the UK and America never went to Iraq and instead we went looking for oil in the antartic, it may ruin it but my welfare is more important. Plus Extremeists the world over won't have as many reasons to hate us.
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you're forgetting those other 'terrorists' who call themselves GreenPeace.
 
yes but how do you prove it? the US has repeatedly broken the geneva conventions in this war, what makes you think they'd want to pursue soldiers who commit murder in direct violation of the geneva accords when the US governemnt is doing the same thing? the US will not allow their soldiers to be tried under war crimes
 
The children previously mentioned who have been killed in this conflict are, I hate to use the phrase, but, collateral damage. Unfortunately civilian casualties will take place, in any conflict of this nature.
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I thihk this is a pure example of propaganda and brainwash.

This is actually just a lame excuse Bush and his henchmen(sp?) use to justify thier war-crimes. Unfortunatly some people buy it.
 
Trust me; I have not been brainwashed or any such thing.

I think some of the things committed by coalition forces in Iraq are terrible, and American forces probably have killed civilians without warrant.

It's just that I find it so hard to believe that anyone would go out of their way in order to kill a child, especially US forces who have the world’s eye fixed firmly upon them. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the chances are that the children who have died in Iraq were killed due to stray bullets and NOT because the entire US army are psycho's.
 
hasan said:
I thihk this is a pure example of propaganda and brainwash.

This is actually just a lame excuse Bush and his henchmen(sp?) use to justify thier war-crimes. Unfortunatly some people buy it.
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How is this a lame excuse, in fact, how is it a excuse period. Its true. Are you trying to say that these innocent children and civilians are getting killed becuase the soldiers there just feel like commiting murder by killing Innocent civilians. Name me one war where not one single innocent person got killed. Its a awful thing where people that arent even fighting get killed, but it happens.
EDIT:: damnit, you beat me to it
 
mortiz said:
Trust me; I have not been brainwashed or any such thing.

I think some of the things committed by coalition forces in Iraq are terrible, and American forces probably have killed civilians without warrant.

It's just that I find it so hard to believe that anyone would go out of their way in order to kill a child, especially US forces who have the world’s eye fixed firmly upon them. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the chances are that the children who have died in Iraq were killed due to stray bullets and NOT because the entire US army are psycho's.
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most of the iraqi children were killed during bombing of civilian areas...the most famous being that 5 year old iraqi who lost his entire family and both his arms when the US bombed his village in the middle of the night

but there are also quite a few civilians killed with small arms, implying that they were not killed during a military campaign
 
Epyon said:
How is this a lame excuse, in fact, how is it a excuse period. Its true. Are you trying to say that these innocent children and civilians are getting killed becuase the soldiers there just feel like commiting murder by killing Innocent civilians.
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Let me remind you that in vietnam, two million people died when because they were in the way .. oops.

not to mention the use of napalm .. and destroying whole villages ... and God knows what else.
 
Sigh... everyone tries to make us Americans look bad ;( . When you take the situation out of its context, there's no telling what led to that event. Who says that voice-over is an official news person? Perhaps someone dubbed the voice in. And to Crazy Harij, we don't torture people. Nobody gets tortured or unjustfully killed on purpose. You refer back to Vietnam and say that we tortured and killed innocent people. That's exactly what hippies said to the soldiers of Vietnam when they got home. It's not fair to say that. You are no better than they are.

If a little 10 year old kid comes at you with an AK-47 and it's pointed at you, what do you do? Do you let him kill you and ruin your future? Or do you kill him first? I think #2 is correct for most people. How can you trust anyone when the most normal looking person is the one who sets that car bomb off or pulls out a pistol on your buddy? It's a hostile environment, and the soldiers do what they have to do in order to stay alive. You would do the same if you have any will to live.

Why can't people stop America bashing and just go about their business. I don't point out your country's every single flaw. I don't make generalizations about your entire country. I don't insult your prime minister. Grow up and stop saying stupid things and making wild assumptions based on one bit of news you hear.

I'm sick of hearing people from other countries talk about how our troops are "90%" high school drop outs and low-lifes. I am sick of hearing that our troops are trigger-happy and have poor training. Our training is not poor. We are the one of the three super-powers on the face of the Earth. We are one of the three strongest military powers along with China and Russia. We aren't in that position because of sheer numbers. Research things before you pop off and start firing stereotypes and generalizations in our direction. You don't live here. Mind your own business and shut up.
 
Heh, You do make quite a point there Moto, but I must say that I have heard ALOT of trashtalking about France, because they wouldn't get involved in the war. French people are almost just as bad as rebel iraqis over in the states. <--- that might have been a bit overexaggerated, but there is some truth in it.
My point is, that even though you have your back covered, it doesn't mean your fellow americans have. The same goes for this video. Most soldiers are good guys and all, but there are the select few that are assholes.
 
You refer back to Vietnam and say that we tortured and killed innocent people. That's exactly what hippies said to the soldiers of Vietnam when they got home. It's not fair to say that.
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?!?!?!?! it is not fair to say that???? but it is fair when they kill a 10 year old becuse you think he can hold an AK?
 
hey hasan, why dont you tell us what would happen if they had been stealing that wood if saddam was still in power?
 
hasan said:
?!?!?!?! it is not fair to say that???? but it is fair when they kill a 10 year old becuse you think he can hold an AK?
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what he's saying is that people are in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that people die in anything they do.
 
They would have had their hands cut off or something worse. US soldiers are still representing USA, and must therefore act accordingly. They are on foreign grounds, and they are there to liberate no?
 
oh well, I WILL get into stupid talk fights :D

ghost .. you earlier wondered how many people Saddam killed, and now you ask what would happen under saddam's rule.

well, Saddam killed alot, but let's not open the old files, cuz I will remind what you did to the native indians, hirshima, vietnam, korea, cuba .. etc.

as for the thieves, I don't know if they actually stole that wood, how do you know they stole it? other than from hearing the solder say it, and the voice over?
Under Saddams' rule, this guy would be thrown into prison.

Thanks for making Saddam your standard, it makes you look a little bit more good than I thought you were.
 
Champ said:
They would have had their hands cut off or something worse. US soldiers are still representing USA, and must therefore act accordingly. They are on foreign grounds, and they are there to liberate no?
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hard to liberate when its impossible to drive through the streets without being shot at. lets see how much they dont like being liberated when they start to see what the billions of dollars were pouring into their country do.
 
hasan said:
oh well, I WILL get into stupid talk fights :D

ghost .. you earlier wondered how many people Saddam killed, and now you ask what would happen under saddam's rule.

well, Saddam killed alot, but let's not open the old files, cuz I will remind what you did to the native indians, hirshima, vietnam, korea, cuba .. etc.

as for the thieves, I don't know if they actually stole that wood, how do you know they stole it? other than from hearing the solder say it, and the voice over?
Under Saddams' rule, this guy would be thrown into prison.

Thanks for making Saddam your standard, it makes you look a little bit more good than I thought you were.
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god.. what im saying is that they should be grateful for even having the right to bitch as much as you do. i stongly doubt he would be "thrown in prison" he'd probably get way worse than what even our 'abused' prisoners got (which for the record i do think is wrong).

and yeah saddam is my standard because weve just arrested a mass murderer who pretty much raped the country for all its worth. the US isnt a bad country like you think it is, we are there to help.
 
I have to go now, its been a very lively debate so far...


Try not to turn it into a flame war where the thread gets locked and no one learns anything. I would hate that to happen.
 
yeah this is pointless, everyone has their opinions and i think weve expressed them. bye bye.
 
hasan said:
?!?!?!?! it is not fair to say that???? but it is fair when they kill a 10 year old becuse you think he can hold an AK?
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Oh my god, you completely took what I said out of context. Read the whole post over again stupid. It says that if you were in a situation where you had a 10 year old kid come at you and POINT an AK47 at you, it would be a fair decision on your part to kill him before he kills you. Why run the risk of using that level of restraint when your very life is on the line? You have just made an idiot of yourself in my eyes. Give what people say more than a glance and don't say stupid things. You have proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are an idiot.
 
And perhaps you should read my very first post over again. Keep it civil for the love of god!
 
Hasan said:
well I'll tell you something, for over a year, Al-Jazeera has been broadcasting pictures and videos of atrocities done by the US army in iraq, and they were accused of being "liers". well, IMHO pictures don't lie, but hey that doesn't matter, because the American people aren't seeing these pictures so who cares? but now when the amnerican media broadcsted these images, and because the American people saw it, now they apologize and everything ....
Just weeks ago, when everything was happening in Falluja, and all Iraqis getting killed, they were frustrated because Al-Jazeera was almost the only media org. inside the city, broadcasting the events LIVE. Believe it or not, one of the conditions for the truce was that Al-Jazeera correspondent leaves the city.
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Al-Jazeera. a joke of a news organization. It's a heavily arab biased news organization, which is perfectly willing to show isolated american abuses in iraq, but ignores abuses and tortures that have been occurring in arab states for decades. hypocrites. There have even been reports that Al-Jazeera reporters were getting tips from insurgents about where they were planning on ambushing american troops for al-jazeera to show its anti-american audiences. sure, we don't have perfect news organizations here in the u.s., but our news organizations are perfectly willing to show problems in our government.

on the videos. Within any microcosm of society you will find people of moral ambiguity. Our soldiers are no different. Although well trained, the stress of the job, a hostile civilian presence, and extended deployments can probably wreck havok on their ability to maintain poise and exercise restraint. I feel for the soldiers risking their lives everyday in that country. I feel for the iraqi people who fear insurgents killing them for working will the americans. I feel for the general public over there worried about reaching a level of normalcy / peace that hasn't blanketed the country just yet. 99% of the American soldiers are doing their jobs, respecting the rights of the iraqis, helping them in ways they can, but a small percentage are not equiped to deal with this situation and they need to be found and removed.
 
Forget this, there is no way to make some of you understand. You jump on something someone says and go "?????1??!1!!! zomg!!!1one @|\/|3r1ca sUx0rs!!!" You fail to read an entire post and instead do exactly what I said you do in my first post in this thread: fire stereotypes, generalizations, and false accusations at American soldiers and at America in general. This is like trying to talk to a monkey. You cannot understand and you will not listen. With that I will leave this useless thread and say that I hate it when people bash my country. I try to make some of you idiots understand with a well thought out and informative post and you still attack us. It's never going to stop, so I will be the bigger person and leave.
 
Not very well said Moto... I pity you, but hey. Let's just close this discussion and get on with our lives shall we?
 
Rofl, those guys got pwnt. I'm sure the soilders had good reason for doing it.
 
Champ said:
Not very well said Moto... I pity you, but hey. Let's just close this discussion and get on with our lives shall we?
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Thanks, Champ. What the hell did I ever say to you? What part of my post is not valid? What gives you reason to say what you just said to me? You make it sound like I am wrong in so many ways that I am not worth talking to and that I should be looked down on and pitied?

You agreed to my first post and it said nearly the same thing. There is no getting through to SOME of you. Some understand, some don't. I never even adressed one thing to you Champ, but oh well. Some people don't listen and can't be told what's true. They won't stop America bashing. Don't pity me, pity the people who can't understand America and don't listen... like hasan for example.

Again, I'll leave now. I hate debating about countries and what's right about them and what's wrong. The thing is, I have to stand by my country and be faithfull to it. I can't let people tell me what to think, especially when they lack knowledge and don't know what it's like to live here.

So do you still pity me Champ? :dozey:
Not that I give a shit.
 
Because you were generalizing on me. If that wasn't your intention, then I'm sorry. I just thought that I, at least, were having a decent discussion with you guys.
 
Moto-x_Pat said:
Thanks, Champ. What the hell did I ever say to you? What part of my post is not valid? What gives you reason to say what you just said to me? You make it sound like I am wrong in so many ways that I am not worth talking to and that I should be looked down on and pitied?

You agreed to my first post and it said nearly the same thing. There is no getting through to SOME of you. Some understand, some don't. I never even adressed one thing to you Champ, but oh well. Some people don't listen and can't be told what's true. They won't stop America bashing. Don't pity me, pity the people who can't understand America and don't listen... like hasan for example.

Again, I'll leave now. I hate debating about countries and what's right about them and what's wrong. The thing is, I have to stand by my country and be faithfull to it. I can't let people tell me what to think, especially when they lack knowledge and don't know what it's like to live here.

So do you still pity me Champ? :dozey:
Not that I give a shit.
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You gave enough shit to write that.
 
Uggg. Okay, thanks not28. Wow. I guess I blew it huh? OK. I might as well leave. Thanks for showing me an error I made. I wrote that because I like my country a lot and I wan't to stand by it. I wanted to make him think about why he said he pitties me. Like I said, I don't care if he pitties me or not. I have other stuff to care about in life. I wrote it to get a point across. I wrote it to question him in pittying me.

Bye.
 
Moto-x_Pat said:
Uggg. Okay, thanks not28. Wow. I guess I blew it huh? OK. I might as well leave. Thanks for showing me an error I made. I wrote that because I like my country a lot and I wan't to stand by it. I wanted to make him think about why he said he pitties me. Like I said, I don't care if he pitties me or not. I have other stuff to care about in life. I wrote it to get a point across. I wrote it to question him in pittying me.

Bye.
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what does liking your country have to do with supporting the war? Does every person who disagrees with the war hate america? I love my country but I'd be on the streets protesting if it joined the coalition
 
lol moto calm down.

Oh my god, you completely took what I said out of context. Read the whole post over again stupid. It says that if you were in a situation where you had a 10 year old kid come at you and POINT an AK47 at you, it would be a fair decision on your part to kill him before he kills you. Why run the risk of using that level of restraint when your very life is on the line?
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I don't know where you got the sotry of a ten year old pointing an AK towards you .. but for all I know the American Troops are raping my country, and the resistance is fully backed up morally and legally. The atrocities of the US Troops just give more justification to the resistance.

You use the rare example of a ten year old fighter, even though it doesn't have anything to do with our subject. We are talking about masses of armless innocent people.
But since you brought up this example, why don't you look at the full picture, a country being occupied by .. not an AK, but a whole army of tanks and aircrafts. What would you do if you were there? What would you do if say, Germany invaded America? I doubt you will be sitting there listening for all the excuses they prepared.

Al-Jazeera is no joke, it is very bised yes, but it doesn't lie like your fox, or that nbc joke, maybe not everything they say is dead accurate, but pictures don't lie.

Al-Jazeera existed before this war, and for years they have been attacking arab regieme. Most (if not all) arab leaders hate aljazeera .. America recently joined them :D
 
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