Another Genius Appointment By Bush

[CptStern]

I know you havent ...I really dont care all that much if people criticize me ...it's when they do it in every single thread I post in that's when it's annoying ...also I draw the line at racist remarks ..thankfully there's only been a few incidents

 

[kmack]

lol, i love seeing a bunch of upper-class white kids argue about the U.N.

You have no idea what the United Nations does for the world, without them Africa would be gone. Have any of you been to a third world country? or is your travel experience limited to Disney trips paid for by mommy and daddy. Don't preted you know anything about the U.N. and their efforts when you have not seen the difference they make first hand.

You can sit in front of the computer that cost you (or more likely; mommy) more than a village in Africa earns in a year, and condemn the U.N. but it doesnt mean a thing.

The U.S. is pathetic and selfish compared the United Nations when it comes to Global Humanitarian efforts. Think AIDS, Bush promised 6 Billion Dollars, that was a 3 Billion Dollar lie. When it comes down to it, we are not that important in the global scheme of things, hate to be the one to tell you.

This appointment is a misguided shake-up of the U.N. yet another case of the U.S. trying to say we are better than the rest of the world.

 

[seinfeldrules]

clinton, reagan, bush whomever ..I really dont care ..I'm not in the least partisan ..foreign policy has no partisanship ...it's the same throughout the history of the US ...funny how you guys will jump all over a democrat pres yet you'll die before you admit any sort of culpability from a republican prez ...you know, sooner or later you MUSt take your heads out of the sand ..or be left behind

Stern, I have admitted time and time again that Bush has made mistakes. I admitted that he was wrong about WMD. Recently, I also said he was wrong not to invite the Taiwanese leader to Washington DC. Thats just off the very top of my head. Looking at you now, lets think of one situation where you have defended America. If you were so unpartisan, why did you feel the need to bring up a quote taking aim at America?

Show links of other countries being as responsible as we were.

Gh0st and others already did.

Stern posted nothing but facts.

You can twist facts whatever way you want. There are two sides to every coin.

lol, i love seeing a bunch of upper-class white kids argue about the U.N.

Man, I wish I had technology that allowed me to see through my computer screen into the faces of the people I was talking to online. You really gotta show me this sometime.

Have any of you been to a third world country?

Have you? (Mexico doesnt count)

Think AIDS, Bush promised 6 Billion Dollars, that was a 3 Billion Dollar lie.

Actually the US is donating more than any country on earth to AIDs. More than all of Europe combined. 15 billion dollars over some length of time. That doesnt take into account the donations by private citizens.

we are not that important in the global scheme of things, hate to be the one to tell you.

I dont think even the most extreme liberal would back you up on that.

 

[Kangy]

Frankly, I don't know what the hell some of you are thinking. Putting a man who hates an organisation in to be ambassador? Let's draw some comparisons.

That's like...

Putting a KKK member on a racial equality board, or making a hippy the head of the CIA.

For Mantis' sake, grow up. Just because you don't like an organisation, doesn't mean you should do everything possible to spite it. Maybe if someone suitable and trustworthy took the job, they'd actually take an interest in what's wrong with the organization, and try to iron it out.

 

[CptStern]

Stern, I have admitted time and time again that Bush has made mistakes. I admitted that he was wrong about WMD. Recently, I also said he was wrong not to invite the Taiwanese leader to Washington DC. Thats just off the very top of my head.

yes but you gloss over on the important issues

Looking at you now, lets think of one situation where you have defended America.

why would I have to? most of the discussions center around the iraq war ...I see nothing that is worth defending america when it comes to that war

If you were so unpartisan, why did you feel the need to bring up a quote taking aim at America?

I was answering gh0st unsubstantiated claim that Dallaire blamed the UN alone ..I pointed out that many countries were to blame not just the US ...you see what you want to see

Gh0st and others already did.

no, gh0st proved nothing ...he speculated, he used "common knowledge" but he proved nothing

You can twist facts whatever way you want. There are two sides to every coin.

really? what's the other side of the coin to this?

 

[gh0st]

no, gh0st proved nothing ...he speculated, he used "common knowledge" but he proved nothing

Main Entry: common knowledge
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: something that is generally known
Example: It is common knowledge that milk turns sour when you leave it out

Nothing more, nothing less. Dont put it in quotes when you know you're wrong. Nothing of what I said is speculation. Stern if you want me to bombard you with fraudulent google links I'm not going to do it for you. My debate tactic isnt to throw out so many flagrant, bogus links that other people lose interest. I bet you havent changed one persons mind the entire time youve been here because youre so BORING to talk to. I got tired of refuting every one of your 'sources' months ago, give it a rest.

By the way, you didnt prove anything either, except that canadian forces say they did an excellent job and deserve a pat on the back.

 

[mabufo]

...I never said the CIA was responsible (mabuto if you had bothered to read the intelligence documents you'd see that)

I was refering to someone else.. but you were saying that they didn't act? So I suppose that would make them responsible would't it...? In your little liberal world.

 

[No Limit]

I bet you havent changed one persons mind the entire time youve been here because youre so BORING to talk to. I got tired of refuting every one of your 'sources' months ago, give it a rest.

You should speak for yourself, I find Stern's posts very interesting; I don't know, I might have a fetish for facts.

 

[Calanen]

Stern would not only meet the test for 'a reasonable apprehension of bias' which is what you have to remove a judge from the bench, but he would also meet the test of Actual Bias.

CIA oversaw the slaughter? Thats just a spin. They saw it happening. Does not mean that they organised.Thas bs - thats saying the CIA organised it under Slick Willy's Presidency? I dont believe that.

 

[bliink]

In your little liberal world.

Don't be so condecending, thanks.

If you want to participate in discussion, use intelligence, not name calling.

 

[CptStern]

Main Entry: common knowledge
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: something that is generally known
Example: It is common knowledge that milk turns sour when you leave it out

sooooo ...that's exactly the same as saying "the UN is useless, everyone knows it" :upstare:

btw common knowledge is based on fact, you're comment is based on opinion, it is completely devoid of fact

Nothing more, nothing less. Dont put it in quotes when you know you're wrong. Nothing of what I said is speculation.

everything is

Stern if you want me to bombard you with fraudulent google links I'm not going to do it for you.

so I should bombard myself with fraudulent google links?

My debate tactic isnt to throw out so many flagrant, bogus links that other people lose interest.

bogus links? now I know you havent been paying attention ...most of the links I've postd in this thread come from the US national archives directly from the real documents released under the information act ...now you're just grasping at straws

I bet you havent changed one persons mind the entire time youve been here because youre so BORING to talk to.

I cant help it if you have a limited attention span

I got tired of refuting every one of your 'sources' months ago, give it a rest.

excuse me? you've refuted my sources? please refresh my memory

By the way, you didnt prove anything either, except that canadian forces say they did an excellent job and deserve a pat on the back.

:upstare: I never linked to that part, you extracted that part on your own. Oh and I did prove something. I proved you wrong:

Have you read Dallaires book? I think you should, its 'neat' who he puts the blame on.

 

[Scoobnfl]

The UN is a joke.

It's nothing but a forum for the 3rd world midget nations to flex their imaginary muscle, grandstand and bloviate.

The corruption in the UN makes congressional and senatorial corruption look legit.

I'm glad he nominated someone that won't turna blind eye to the nonsense that goes on there.

 

[seinfeldrules]

yes but you gloss over on the important issues

Do I? Well then, that means you are guilty of the same offense.

why would I have to? most of the discussions center around the iraq war ...I see nothing that is worth defending america when it comes to that war

So you cannot think of a single situation in the past? OK then, dont call me a 'close minded bigot' from now on.

I was answering gh0st unsubstantiated claim that Dallaire blamed the UN alone ..I pointed out that many countries were to blame not just the US ...you see what you want to see

It was your entire post. There wasnt much else to see but the tan background.

In case you've forgotten:

The Americans scuttled any initiative to bring about a force to be able to save hundreds of thousands.

really? what's the other side of the coin to this?

I've discussed this with you at length before. You refuse to see the other side of the coin just as I refuse to accept your argument. Do you really think we should debate the same old link in thread after thread? I think we would push Kmack into the mental institution.

 

[CptStern]

Do I? Well then, that means you are guilty of the same offense.

what events in the iraq war have I glossed over?

So you cannot think of a single situation in the past? OK then, dont call me a 'close minded bigot' from now on.

I'd say it was more of the truth being so overpowering that there was no room for the lies they rammed down people's throats

It was your entire post. There wasnt much else to see but the tan background.

well then you werent looking too hard because I did say:

"anyways, it was a failure in all respects ..every UN member has a share of the blame"

"I didnt say it was the US' fault. It was who Dallaire pointed to a number of countries that wanted to pull out ..especially after the UN soldiers were murdered"

I even posted this quote by Dallaire ..I could have edited out the belgium part

" But the Americans knew what was going on inside there, and [it's awful] to go and excuse yourself -- the Belgians did the same thing"

I've discussed this with you at length before. You refuse to see the other side of the coin just as I refuse to accept your argument. Do you really think we should debate the same old link in thread after thread? I think we would push Kmack into the mental institution.

there is no freakin other side, the US assessed what the outcome would be if they destroyed the water treatment plants BEFORE the war, they even estimated the demographics that would be affected most (children) ..they even went so far as do another assessment because they werent getting the results they were hoping for:

"assessment is that major disease outbreaks currently have not occurred in Baghdad or Basrah. For severe outbreaks to develop, a protracted war or more extensive collateral damage would have to occur."

source

 

[seinfeldrules]

what events in the iraq war have I glossed over?

How about the elections? The tyranny the Iraqis were freed from? Those are but a few positive aspects of the war.

I'd say it was more of the truth being so overpowering that there was no room for the lies they rammed down people's throats

Again, dont call me a 'close minded bigot' anymore.

well then you werent looking too hard because I did say:

It was your entire post.

I even posted this quote by Dallaire ..I could have edited out the belgium part

You basically did. You ignored that and chose to bold the section dealing with America.

there is no freakin other side, the US assessed what the outcome would be if they destroyed the water treatment plants BEFORE the war, they even estimated the demographics that would be affected most (children) ..they even went so far as do another assessment because they werent getting the results they were hoping for:

Again, I've discussed this with you before. If you chose to ignore what I said then thats up to you. I see no need to discuss the same exact document in thread after thread. For some reason, you do. Maybe I should just spam the amount of Iraqis that voted in every thread.

 

[gh0st]

Haha. If all else fails 1) Water treatment plants, 2) Albright quote.

 

[CptStern]

How about the elections? The tyranny the Iraqis were freed from? Those are but a few positive aspects of the war.

well maybe it wouldnt have come to war if you didnt a)support saddam b) help destroy his enemies c) and knew he was using wmd on iranians ..you even knew he used it on the kurds ..didnt make a lick of difference

Again, dont call me a 'close minded bigot' anymore.

what are you talking about?

It was your entire post.

no every last one of you focus on one wordphrase:

"actively surveying"

you took to ment "caused" ...you see what you want to see ..anyone even remotely says anything remotely critical and you dismiss it by saying "anti-american" ...pure bs

You basically did. You ignored that and chose to bold the section dealing with America.

for the last time, I was answering gh0st asinine and incorrect innuendo that the UN was solely responsible ..jeez dont you pay attention?

Again, I've discussed this with you before. If you chose to ignore what I said then thats up to you. I see no need to discuss the same exact document in thread after thread. For some reason, you do. Maybe I should just spam the amount of Iraqis that voted in every thread.

you answered nothing, you resolved nothing ..if the US couldnt weasal it's way arond the document how can you? I use the iraq water treatment document and indisputable proof that you have no desire to safegaurd the people of iraq ..You dont cause the deaths of 500,000 children and then turn around and say you give two shits about the country ...pure hypocrisy. To this day you have never accepted that you were responsible for that even though official documents prove beyond a shadow of the doubt you are responsible

 

[gh0st]

for the last time, I was answering gh0st asinine and incorrect innuendo that the UN was solely responsible ..jeez dont you pay attention?

Thats not what Kofi Annan says. Read back, he says its the UN's fault, not the US's fault. What would you say to him? Try and blame the US. Bullshit. Should I believe you or him?

 

[CptStern]

Thats not what Kofi Annan says. Read back, he says its the UN's fault, not the US's fault. What would you say to him? Try and blame the US. Bullshit. Should I believe you or him?

source?


dallaire who was in rwanda is the best eyewitness ...he paints a decidedly different picture as to who is responsible ...btw you do know that when kofi says "UN" he means the member states right? cuz without it's members there is no UN

 

[seinfeldrules]

well maybe it wouldnt have come to war if you didnt a)support saddam b) help destroy his enemies c) and knew he was using wmd on iranians ..you even knew he used it on the kurds ..didnt make a lick of difference

hahaha thanks for proving my point. Instead of addressing my points you avoid them. AKA Glossing over the issues.

what are you talking about?

Well, it is clear you cannot provide a single example of when you have defended America. Calling others close minded while this is your position will only make you look like a hypocrit.

for the last time, I was answering gh0st asinine and incorrect innuendo that the UN was solely responsible ..jeez dont you pay attention?

Again, if you were going to prove that the UN wasnt solely responsible, then why focus on the US? You could have just as easily bolded another country, but that doesnt fit your agenda.

you answered nothing, you resolved nothing ..if the US couldnt weasal it's way arond the document how can you? I use the iraq water treatment document and indisputable proof that you have no desire to safegaurd the people of iraq ..You dont cause the deaths of 500,000 children and then turn around and say you give two shits about the country ...pure hypocrisy. To this day you have never accepted that you were responsible for that even though official documents prove beyond a shadow of the doubt you are responsible

Again, we have discussed this. There is no need for you to continue to spam it in every thread. If you dont like my and other's responses then tough.

Try and blame the US. Bullshit. Should I believe you or him?

I think its a lose- lose situation. Its like choosing between drowning or burning to death.

 

[gh0st]

source?

In a statement, Annan acknowledged the systematic failure of the United Nations and expressed his "deep remorse" on behalf of the organization.​

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/rwanda/rpt1299.htm
NOT US. UN. Read it and weep.

Edit: far more important is this little tidbit

And it showed UN officials - Annan and then-Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali among them - unable or unwilling to act on information from the field that a massive slaughter was occurring and that they needed to do something to stop it.​

QED Buddy.

dallaire who was in rwanda is the best eyewitness ...he paints a decidedly different picture as to who is responsible

In a statement, Annan acknowledged the systematic failure of the United Nations​

Dallaire was there huh? So he, from his Rwanda vantage point, knew that the US was at fault. I call bullshit. Think logically about it for a minute. Who exactly is he to say its the US's fault? I would say he doesnt have the right. I admit the US could have done more, but I certainly wouldnt place all the blame on the US. I concede my earlier thing about Dallaire, I realize the stupidity in it. Soldiers do not decide who is right and who is wrong. Though I notice that you dont put the blame on the 'member states', you put your blame on the United States as usual.

 

[kmack]

That's like...

Putting a KKK member on a racial equality board, or making a hippy the head of the CIA.

It's funny cuz it's true!

 

[K e r b e r o s]

What? We have KKK members on racial equality boards? I thought those were dominated by the Crips and Black Panthers?

A hippy in the CIA? Is this true? Pah! Hardly.

 

[CptStern]

In a statement, Annan acknowledged the systematic failure of the United Nations and expressed his "deep remorse" on behalf of the organization.​

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/rwanda/rpt1299.htm
NOT US. UN. Read it and weep.

Edit: far more important is this little tidbit

And it showed UN officials - Annan and then-Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali among them - unable or unwilling to act on information from the field that a massive slaughter was occurring and that they needed to do something to stop it.​

QED Buddy.

In a statement, Annan acknowledged the systematic failure of the United Nations​

Dallaire was there huh? So he, from his Rwanda vantage point, knew that the US was at fault. I call bullshit. Think logically about it for a minute. Who exactly is he to say its the US's fault? I would say he doesnt have the right. I admit the US could have done more, but I certainly wouldnt place all the blame on the US. I concede my earlier thing about Dallaire, I realize the stupidity in it. Soldiers do not decide who is right and who is wrong. Though I notice that you dont put the blame on the 'member states', you put your blame on the United States as usual.

sigh ...this is like hammering a square peg into a round hole. Gh0st I dont understand how you have such a difficult time comprehending this. First of all I've never BALMED the US ...they are NOT responsible for the hundreds of thousands of deaths in rwanda ..no one country is ..the various tribes are clearly behind the slaughter. That said, you cant single out the UN as being responsible because it's not the individual organisation but rather a collection of nations ...that's why it's called the UNITED NATIONS. The US, belgium, france, uk and others had no interest in going into rwanda because it was deemed too much of a lose lose situation (again you would know that if you had bothered to read the links I provided, it was the very first post I made in this thread:


"The resumption of the civil war had important consequences: for the RPF, it was necessary to rescue both their comrades in Kigali and to rescue Tutsi civilians; for the Rwandan military, it served to solidify ranks which were divided over the military's involvement in killing civilians and taking power; for the interim Rwandan government, it would provide an excuse for prosecuting a war against the RPF and any civilians it considered "accomplices" of the RPF, including Tutsi women and children, and it directly threatened the government's existence; and for outside observers, including the U.S., UN, and others inexperienced with Rwanda's history, it confused the killing of civilians with fighting between regular forces and discouraged outside intervention, particularly in the wake of the U.S. and UN experience in Mogadishu."



you see what you want to see, as I've stated numerous times:

anyways, it was a failure in all respects ..every UN member has a share of the blame

some more than others ...because some actively scuttled initiatives that would have led to a larger force in rwanda ...interpret that how you want, you're going to anyway


seriously gh0st I dont think the politics forums is a good fit for you ...by your responses it's quite clear you either dont have the mental capacity or you have little patience and go by gut reaction alone ......for your sake I hope it's the latter and not the former

 

[K e r b e r o s]

some more than others

No, the UN is just as guilty as the countries within it -- and your quoting yourself Stern ... why?

seriously gh0st I dont think the politics forums is a good fit for you ...by your responses it's quite clear you either dont have the mental capacity or you have little patience and go by gut reaction alone ......for your sake I hope it's the latter and not the former

Well, at least you admitted to insulting.

 

[seinfeldrules]

The US, belgium, france, uk and others had no interest in going into rwanda because it was deemed too much of a lose lose situation (again you would know that if you had bothered to read the links I provided, it was the very first post I made in this thread:

That is why I do blame the UN. They have no actual power to prevent situations like this and others in the Sudan, Iraq, etc. etc.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

^ Right. Could'nt have said it better myself.

<hands him a cigar>

 

[gh0st]

seriously gh0st I dont think the politics forums is a good fit for you ...by your responses it's quite clear you either dont have the mental capacity or you have little patience and go by gut reaction alone ......for your sake I hope it's the latter and not the former

Maybe theres something you arent understanding dimwit. If youd looked at that site, you would see that it wasent any countries fault, it was the UN's poor, or entirely lack, of communication. That was the primary reason, because the majority of the countries didnt know what was going on - BECAUSE THE UN ****ED UP. Acknowledge it and we can move on.

Yes you have been blaming the US.

So do you go back on your word? Clearly you're blaming the US, you say it yourself that its the US's fault:

The Americans scuttled any initiative to bring about a force to be able to save hundreds of thousands.​

Then you bold it, as though its going to pursuade anybody.

Hmm Dallaire you dumbass maybe thats because your precious organization blew it.

 

[CptStern]

:upstare: I give up, you're not worth the effort

 

[K e r b e r o s]

This is ... what the third-ith time? :rolling:

 

[CptStern]

serously discussing politics with you guys is like discussing quantum physics with a bunch of fourth graders

 

[K e r b e r o s]

We dont want none of your quantum physics stern -- we want clay! Woodblocks! A color time! Recess!

Essentially ... give us a break Stern!

 

[CptStern]

you're the worst of the bunch kerberos. You NEVER bring anything to these discussions ..it's like you're just wasted space...probably explains why I usually skip over your posts ...they're just needless lip-service to something you dont even understand

 

[seinfeldrules]

I can feel the arrogance dripping from every post. Since your head is obviously too bloated to discuss anything, then why bother posting?

 

[Tr0n]

I can feel the arrogance dripping from every post. Since your head is obviously too bloated to discuss anything, then why bother posting?

I love the irony.

You all are guilty of that. (including me)

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Wait, does this mean we can form a club Tr0n?

I can feel the arrogance dripping from every post. Since your head is obviously too bloated to discuss anything, then why bother posting?

Dunno. Wait a moment, I'm not stern!

 

[Tr0n]

Of course....you saved me from that heart attack.

That was a good big mac I tell ya.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Schweet! Heart attacks and McDonalds ...

 

[CptStern]

I can feel the arrogance dripping from every post. Since your head is obviously too bloated to discuss anything, then why bother posting?

discuss? there's no discussion with you people...I post hundreds of documets and I'm ignored ...you selectively target a few choice words and completely ignore everything else ..every single time I provide concrete proof I'm met with silence or worse derision for being "anti-american". Nothing is ever accomplished because none of the actual facts are debated ..debating with you is like talking to wall

have any of you half-wits even mentioned the declassified documents I've posted ..no, instead you focus your attention at diverting any form of criticsim by labeling me anti-american ..yet the documents still stand undiscussed ...hmmm I wonder why? can it be because you cant discuss it?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

there's no discussion with you people...I post hundreds of documets and I'm ignored

Judging from my ignore/buddy list, your not ignored. ...but hey, I can change that!

debating with you is like talking to wall

You mean, its like talking to "me?" Ill-changing, built by the people, and dividing ... yea.