Another smart move by Republicans, no women in military

[CptStern]

They are equal roles, no role is better than another. If anything the support unit may be the most crucial of all. It is a simple matter of efficiency. A place where your equality physco-babble touchy feely crap means nothing. This is about peoples lives being lost in the name of equality which is totally unessacery.

Not letting them in the same combat roles for the reason that a group of mixed gender does do not function effeciently under stress is not an issue of equality. No one is blaming women for the fact that men are over protective and irrational around them, and it is certainly not a punishment. Its either all women or all men, and the number of women wanting to go get killed is just a little less than the number of men.

listen I couldnt give 2 shits whether they shoot each other on sight ..this has nothing to do with "touchy feely" crap but rather with equality ..any way you slice it it's not equal ..if it was this wouldnt be an issue now would it

 

[iyfyoufhl]

i'm sure that military considers women as a risk, same as it's a bad luck to have a woman on board or woman make bad drivers (which most of them are)

 

[Steve]

Now you're just being silly.

 

[Sainku]

listen I couldnt give 2 shits whether they shoot each other on sight ..this has nothing to do with "touchy feely" crap but rather with equality ..any way you slice it it's not equal ..if it was this wouldnt be an issue now would it

I was talking about equality, and how it is stupid to throw lives away for it. No one will give a damn about about how equal they are when they are dead. Did you even read my post?

 

[CptStern]

I was talking about equality, and how it is stupid to throw lives away for it. No one will give a damn about about how equal they are when they are dead. Did you even read my post?

yes I read your post ...this has nothing to do with lives being saved but rather equality ...if females can fight along side israeli soldiers I dont see why americans cant

 

[bliink]

Not letting them in the same combat roles for the reason that a group of mixed gender does do not function effeciently under stress is not an issue of equality. No one is blaming women for the fact that men are over protective and irrational around them, and it is certainly not a punishment. Its either all women or all men, and the number of women wanting to go get killed is just a little less than the number of men.

Sounds like a discipline problem to me.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Men get irrational around women? What a load of......hey, will you look at the rack on that!

 

[bliink]

Men get irrational around women? What a load of......hey, will you look at the rack on that!

I'm sure you're referring to a weapons rack on the side of an armoured vehicle of some variety, yes?

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Oh, of course. Ahem.

 

[The Monkey]

I really have no problem with the women joining the military, but the only reason I can think they can't is because the Marine tradition of only men, and the womens rights movements would go crazy if a woman got sent to the front-lines to be killed.

Why would they be that? the women rights movement, at least here, supports equal opportunity between the sexes. As they support equality, it's just as horrible when a woman dies as when a man does.

 

[Razor]

yes I read your post ...this has nothing to do with lives being saved but rather equality ...if females can fight along side israeli soldiers I dont see why americans cant

There was also the women who fought in the Soviet army and helped protect the Soviet Union from the Nazis. There was infact a squadron full of women pilots, one of them was shot down and died in the crash, the Germans found her body and buried her with a military funeral...also the female snipers that killed quite a few German soldiers as well.

Women have proven in numerous different armies around the world that they can handle frontline combat, if a woman is as good as the men and can pass the same physical and mental tests as the men, i see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to fight for what they believe in and die for alongside the men.

 

[^Ben]

And don't foget the most important war of all.

THE RESISTANCE! Of earth from the combine.

 

[kirovman]

There was also the women who fought in the Soviet army and helped protect the Soviet Union from the Nazis. There was infact a squadron full of women pilots, one of them was shot down and died in the crash, the Germans found her body and buried her with a military funeral...also the female snipers that killed quite a few German soldiers as well.

Women have proven in numerous different armies around the world that they can handle frontline combat, if a woman is as good as the men and can pass the same physical and mental tests as the men, i see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to fight for what they believe in and die for alongside the men.

Exactly. If they can pass the mental and physical tests prescribed to EVERYONE by the job, I see no reason why they should be disallowed to serve.
Being denied purely on gender is not focussing on who can actually do the job.

"Oh but women aren't fit enough" is the rhetoric muttered, just before the woman in question runs the Marine training course in the fastest time, shows what a flimsy arguement that is.

As for the Marines or whatever being so "deeply wounded" by having the opposite gender in their regiment, aren't they supposed to be trained for all circumstances? I wouldn't someone defending my country, who would break down just because they saw a woman.

Sure, refuse someone on the grounds of them not being fit enough. But don't refuse them if they can satisfy all the tests.

I'm sure scienctists thought at one point "A woman's mind is not developed enough to do science"
That was proved wrong wasn't it. I don't see why the sexists in the military can't be proved wrong either.

 

[Direwolf]

It's just a result of that kinda bizarre mix of mild sexism and outmoded chivalry. I really don't think theres anything bad meant by it, and I can imagine that every father would have major problems with sending his daughter to war. Its still silly in this day and age though.

 

[T.H.C.138]

what does it matter? as soon as these "special interest" groups get what they want,they don't want it anymore..

womens boxing? the Million Dollar Baby fiasco? ring any bells?

and this whoile military thing,anyone see that Demi Moore movie,GI Jane?

honestly I don't care what women as a group can or can't do or men for that matter

what matters is what the individual is capable of,not the race,sex,religion..

and this applies to any job..

who do you want working the drive-thru at McDonalds? someone who can speak clearly and be understood,or someone who doesn't speak the language at all?

I don't care what color the persons skin is or what/who they worship or if they have breasts as long as they are capable of the task at hand..

 

[superjuanchango]

Yet another reason why I hate them.

I'm very glad I'm not living in America at the moment. It's so hideously ironic that right now Bush is blowing places up in the name of "freedom" when back home he's taking away gays rights to marraige, scaring protesters into not protesting for fear of being locked up for terrorism, stripping women's rights to serve their country amongst other things.

Yet another reason that I hate the left.

I think they should be given the ability to fight just like men, no different. At all, in fact, exactly the same. They should need to register for the draft as well. However, you people MUST see who they do not want them on the front lines. As 99% of you are men, you know that when women are around men are morons. They act more irrational around women then around men, and would be in more of a self sacraficing move.

 

[kirovman]

Yet another reason that I hate the left.

I think they should be given the ability to fight just like men, no different. At all, in fact, exactly the same. They should need to register for the draft as well. However, you people MUST see who they do not want them on the front lines. As 99% of you are men, you know that when women are around men are morons. They act more irrational around women then around men, and would be in more of a self sacraficing move.

Nothing a bit of discipline and corporal punishment couldn't handle...

 

[CptStern]

However, you people MUST see who they do not want them on the front lines. As 99% of you are men, you know that when women are around men are morons. They act more irrational around women then around men, and would be in more of a self sacraficing move.

is that why there's a "Dont Ask, Dont Tell" policy for homosexuals in the military?

 

[Gray Fox]

I don't understand why so much non-US are worried about this, this is only going to make their military weaker. If they want ot shoot themselves in the foot, let them do it.

 

[T.H.C.138]

and what happens when a woman is captured? will the public have more or less outrage than for a man?

and women ARE more vulnerable for sexual reasons..not too many "enemies" would rape a man..but a woman?

especially in places like Iraq where women are things not people...

and besides Grey Fox is right..what do you "foreigners" care about what we do to ourselves?

too much nose in others business all around..not enough on the problems that plague their own country..my government is no exception to this...

 

[Glo-Boy]

Women are not allowed into special forces, special ops, SEALs, Deltas et cetera because it is proven that they cannot strategize and keep cool under heavy fire as effectively as males. I don't see any bias there, it's just in their biological makeup.

 

[MjM]

I like what Mahr(sp?) said, everyone who supports the war should go fight it.
I say that should be a truth for any war.

I also heard another nice little phrase today. War equals Terrorism plus a budget. Bravo.

And apparently recruitment levels are down ~40%. So probably not the best time to be thinking about excluding your willing woman folk from combat duties.

 

[Foxtrot]

is that why there's a "Dont Ask, Dont Tell" policy for homosexuals in the military?

No, there is a don't ask don't tell policy because if someone is found to be gay they obviously did something wrong. Also, it would be like having a guy shower with women.

 

[bliink]

and besides Grey Fox is right..what do you "foreigners" care about what we do to ourselves?

This is a UK website but we let Americans discuss things on it.

And Americans here will let others discuss things on America. :thumbs:

 

[Foxtrot]

This is a UK website but we let Americans discuss things on it.

And Americans here will let others discuss things on America. :thumbs:

Isn't this owned by Americans though? Not that it matters at all.

 

[bliink]

Isn't this owned by Americans though?

No. It's not.

 

[shadow_sin_black]

There is somemthing wrong with George W. Bush, thats all there is to it he can't really do anything right He even choked on a perzel ( sorry about my spelling i never spell anything right) if he wants to kill usa let him there is something worng with people Tsk gore should have won this place would have been better

 

[Foxtrot]

There is somemthing wrong with George W. Bush, thats all there is to it he can't really do anything right He even choked on a perzel ( sorry about my spelling i never spell anything right) if he wants to kill usa let him there is something worng with people Tsk gore should have won this place would have been better

...I cry for you, and hope you get better some day ;(

 

[T.H.C.138]

This is a UK website but we let Americans discuss things on it.

And Americans here will let others discuss things on America. :thumbs:

sorry about that..I forgot the smiley winky guys..I was joking!

:cheers: to any who took it the wrong way!

 

[bgesley426]

So yeah, I'm probably a little late in this thread but where in the hell did this idea that a woman's period is some hugely dibilitating disease? Sure women have periods but it doesn't completely destroy their ability to do anything. They might become more emotional but still that doesn't affect their ability to carry out a task. Keep in mind that women who live together (for instance an all female troop) end up having equal menstrual cycles (meaning they all have a period on the same day). So if the army knew anything they would plan accordingly.

One thing people have completely forgotten about is that the enrollment rate for people into the army (regardless of gender) is diminishing. We are also losing the ammount of people currently in service. Their time is up to leave. Disallowing the amount of military positions women can take will also diminish the already diminishing enrollment rate. The slogan of "an army of one" could not be anymore more true than it is now. If the US hungers for "new blood" in the army then we should encourage and expand the possibilities of jobs anyone of any gender could take. If these women want to serve for their country they should be allowed to. If they can pass the phsyical and mental tests then they should be allowed to fight.

Think of it this way. Two people are applying for one position in a co-ed troop. One male and one female. If the female soldier finishes the endurance and phsyical tests faster and more efficiently than the male soldier who should the one to get into the troop? If the female soldier passes the mental and comprehension tests with a higher score than the male soldier who should be the one to get into the troop? Would you rather have a smart and agile woman in your troop or a less smart and less agile man? In terms of combat we need the best we can get.

Its been proven with the homosexual issue in the army that if there is a change in tradition the army is able to adapt to the change. Hell the army is better at adapting to change THAN ANYONE ELSE. They are TRAINED in adapting to changes. If women are able to serve in all military fields they will adapt to those changes.

 

[Cons Himself]

im glad bush isnt letting gays marry - its an affront to a sacred institution.

imagine if everyone in the world was a queer - where would we be then? we wouldnt friggin even exist!!

and women in front line combat? are you people retarded? anyone see the scene from saving private ryan where the hard case militant Waffen-SS trooper stabbed that american guy using brute strength, and the pussy american started crying on the stairs, and the SS guy just laughed and walked past him?

that would be a woman in unarmed combat: totally outdone. just not physically strong enough. women can train in the gym all day long, but unless they take anabolic steroids or testosterone, they will never be able to build the same muscle mass as men - therefore they would suck in hand to hand militant combat, with knives and bayonets and stuff.

and the argument "oh i bet GI Jane could beat me up lolz" is retarded. sure she could - you spend your whole day posting on hl2.net from your university campus bedroom, youre probably pasty and skinny cos you never go outside. not a very even fight is it. men who ACTUALLY join the marines, special forces on the other hand would be able to take her out quite easily.

and what are you all so worried about anyway? there is a job out there in terms of defending the nation which is a hell of a lot harder than being a soldier. its called being a field intelligence officer. afaik women are allowed to take up this role in MI6 and the CIA:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1059736061019

 

[CptStern]

sacred to who? christians? buddists? jews? muslims? ...I'm married and it wasnt in a church ...should I tell my wife we're not actally married because it wasnt in front of god?


btw, who are you to decide what's best for other people ...if you dont want gay marriage, dont date gay men

 

[TheSomeone]

Hmm... Very intresting responses, very intresting reactions.

Quite frankly if a women wants to fight for her country, she should be able to. If she has an emotional attachment to the US and she wants to prove it, she should be able to. I'm still puzzled why males should decide what her rights are.

 

[bliink]

and women in front line combat? are you people retarded? anyone see the scene from saving private ryan where the hard case militant Waffen-SS trooper stabbed that american guy using brute strength, and the pussy american started crying on the stairs, and the SS guy just laughed and walked past him?

that would be a woman in unarmed combat:

Ok, so a woman would start sobbing after she joined the army and found out she had to fight? Theres about the same chance of that happening to a male.

totally outdone. just not physically strong enough. women can train in the gym all day long, but unless they take anabolic steroids or testosterone, they will never be able to build the same muscle mass as men - therefore they would suck in hand to hand militant combat, with knives and bayonets and stuff.

"Knives and bayonets and stuff"?? this isn't counterstrike.
1) The army uses guns.
2) You don't need to look like the governator to be able to kill someone with your hands
3) Soldiers fight in teams during "militant combat"
4) A soldier in no way is made solely out of muscle mass. "muscle mass" makes meathead idiots. You need A LOT more to make a soldier and being beefy is a LOT LESS important than you think it is.
Endurance and stamina are proportional to body size anyway.

and the argument "oh i bet GI Jane could beat me up lolz" is retarded. sure she could - you spend your whole day posting on hl2.net from your university campus bedroom, youre probably pasty and skinny cos you never go outside. not a very even fight is it.

Right, so you not only stereotype entire genders, but also the members here. You must be popular! :thumbs:

men who ACTUALLY join the marines, special forces on the other hand would be able to take her out quite easily.

I'm glad to hear that you think a fictional character could be killed by a marine. Your argument is cohesive and logical.

and what are you all so worried about anyway? there is a job out there in terms of defending the nation which is a hell of a lot harder than being a soldier. its called being a field intelligence officer. afaik women are allowed to take up this role in MI6 and the CIA:

FIO's are different from soldiers. You may as well have said "There is a job out there thats not being a soldier called an "interior decorator" afaik women are allowed to take up this role" If a person wants to be a soldier, palming them off on something thats not a soldier is not an argument.

 

[Shippi]

Men are too protective over women. It probably would effect the performance of a team if there are women in it, unfortunately.

I believe women are just as capable as men. While we're not as able physically, it doesn't mean we're not able to do our jobs. It's just the men, trying to be protective, which stop us from doing so.

Then there's the whole, military women being abused and raped etc..

If I were a guy, I'd be applying for the RAF right now, but I don't want to work in an environment like that

 

[bliink]

I believe women are just as capable as men. While we're not as able physically, it doesn't mean we're not able to do our jobs. It's just the men, trying to be protective, which stop us from doing so.

Exactly, and it's hardly the fault of women that this happens.

Like I said before; the only reason is a lack of overall discipline in the US military. A more disciplined force can handle women fine (eg, Israel which Stern (i think) pointed out)

 

[Razor]

Men are too protective over women. It probably would effect the performance of a team if there are women in it, unfortunately.

I believe women are just as capable as men. While we're not as able physically, it doesn't mean we're not able to do our jobs. It's just the men, trying to be protective, which stop us from doing so.

Then there's the whole, military women being abused and raped etc..

If I were a guy, I'd be applying for the RAF right now, but I don't want to work in an environment like that

Now now Shippi, don't worry, let me handle this as i'm a man .

It is just unfortunate you don't want to be in the raf as i have met a couple of different girls who want to do different jobs in the raf and are applying at the moment, all of which are about as heavily built as Kylie Minogue.

And Bliink, any frontline soldier needs to be adept in the use of hand to hand combat, including knives and bayonets. Hand to hand combat is still a vital part of war.

 

[kirovman]

Women are more agile. Ever fight those assassins in Half-Life? :E

 

[bliink]

And Bliink, any frontline soldier needs to be adept in the use of hand to hand combat, including knives and bayonets. Hand to hand combat is still a vital part of war.

I didn't say it was not of use, I just said it wasn't integral; anyway, my main point was that a female can still kill someone in close quarters if they're trained right.

 

[kirovman]

I didn't say it was not of use, I just said it wasn't integral; anyway, my main point was that a female can still kill someone in close quarters if they're trained right.

Agreed. This issue here is about the military discriminating against sex rather than discriminating against ability.

If a woman is able to demonstrate she can do close quarters combat, why should she not be allowed? If she passes all of the prescribed tests?

Rather than the cliched "Oh she's a woman, she can't do that", without actually letting her prove that she can.