Anti-war protest in America's Army

CptStern

CptStern

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absolutely brilliant:


Salon.com said:
While pro-war propaganda and military recruitment tools are nothing new, using them as the medium to broadcast an anti-war protest is. Yet that is just what University of Nevada art professor Joseph Delappe is doing with his small bit of "performance art" in the military-funded game America's Army.

Instead of playing the game as it was intended, Delappe logs in and runs around without firing a shot, eventually getting killed by his fellow players. As his character dies, Delappe broadcasts the name of a real American soldier killed in Iraq, an act he's performed 1,273 times so far, according to Salon.
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lol I bet that throws a fly into the ointment of all those military wannabes (potential cannon fodder)

take that! Uncle sam :LOL:
 
he's an art professor ..I'm sure it has something to do with a project of some kind
 
Hitler was an artist! :O

But yeah, this is quite a novel way of protesting, interesting to see if the message gets across, or if you'll just get kid gamers going "stfu noob" ...

I think I heard about this before, can't remember where.
 
Nope. It's not great.

One the one hand, it's as admirable as creating a game specifically to drive military recruitment is objectionable.

On the other hand, it must be really bloody annoying.
 
hehe yes, that's what makes it so funny ..wish there was a video
 
i dont, i have friends names id rather not see

edit: does he put the names?
 
Ooh, hang on, he kind of makes a game of it. One name every death.

For some reason (having heard about this before) I was under the impression he just sat in a corner and droned them all out, which would have been extremely annoying and perverse.

Both my hands are now in agreement!
 
I think he sends out something like "<rank> <name>, age <x>, killed <date> on duty in <location>" in the global chat.

[edit] After he respawns or something. However that game works.
 
It's probably a case that after he does it a couple of times, everyone just mutes him or tells him to "f**k off".
 
To make people aware of the sadness/horror/casualties of war?

Or to use the names of the dead for a political purpose?
 
I think if I saw my friends name being used as a tool id be mad.
 
Eh ... I dunno about this.

First of all, let me say that it's a good idea to protest the war in a venue like America's Army, pretty brilliant.

Secondly, it isn't right to use the names of the dead in support of your cause, as they very likely would not have wanted that. The fact is that most of the enlisted military are conservative and many of them support Bush and this war, and to use their names against it after their death is morally dubious.

Thirdly, I've played that game (it's actually a damn good online game) and what he's doing isn't effective at all. For starters if he says it when he dies then only like 3-5 people will see it, and they probably won't notice/care. If he waits until the start of the next round it will be drowned out by "follow me," "roger," "Reporting In," etc. (also a bunch of assholes M203 bombing the spawn). Seems ... pointless.

Finally, I'd just like to say that since it's a good idea, he/someone should organize a real way to protest. Maybe flood the servers with people who will just stand there and not fight like a bunch of dirty hippies, that would be interesting.
 
You can't just generalize all enlisted men as conservative and supporters of Bush and the war.
 
Additionally, you can't say the use of their names is morally dubious, because when you get right down to it, each name is one entry in a statistic. And statistics aren't intrinsically moral or amoral, so the entire point of the morality of this is effectively moot.
 
old news, saw it before in a news magazine. still pretty good though. The responses he gets are pretty funny. At first they are like, "what are you doing?" and then they're like, "oh I get it, those are real soldiers" and finally it escalates into "STFU NOOB, YOU'RE CLOGGING THE CHANNEL" and then he'll get votebanned.
 
It isnt going to change anything, imo its a waste of time.
 
DeusExMachina said:
You can't just generalize all enlisted men as conservative and supporters of Bush and the war.
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I didn't, but it's a statistical fact that most of them are.

Stigmata said:
Additionally, you can't say the use of their names is morally dubious, because when you get right down to it, each name is one entry in a statistic. And statistics aren't intrinsically moral or amoral, so the entire point of the morality of this is effectively moot.
Click to expand...

Their name is not a statistic, it's a name. The fact is that you don't know whether they agreed with you or not, yet you're still using the name of a dead person to further your own cause.

I'm don't feel particularly strongly about it, but I would say that it's in bad taste. Although I agree with his cause, I wouldn't use someone else's identity to further my own agenda unless I knew them and/or had the support of their families. Just a personal opinion, it's a matter of respect.
 
A interesting method no matter which side of the fence you sit on.

Although I question the effectiveness of such a method. Most gamers after all play games to escape reality (even just for a little bit).
 
I think it's probably more annoying because it is in AA (it's the army) ..there's gotta be soldier wannabes/RL soldiers who'd just love to kick his ass (in game or otherwise)
 
smwScott said:
I didn't, but it's a statistical fact that most of them are.



Their name is not a statistic, it's a name. The fact is that you don't know whether they agreed with you or not, yet you're still using the name of a dead person to further your own cause.

I'm don't feel particularly strongly about it, but I would say that it's in bad taste. Although I agree with his cause, I wouldn't use someone else's identity to further my own agenda unless I knew them and/or had the support of their families. Just a personal opinion, it's a matter of respect.
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I can understand this point of view completely, but in my eyes it's a double standard of sorts. It seems like most people don't really care whose names you're using to further whatever cause you might be furthering, but as soon as that person is dead, don't use their name, because they're dead!
 
Nice! I love it! I'm glad that people are getting more inventive about the ways they protest. My sole critique of this technique is it's only one person. It would be much better if it could spread with more popularity. (Though, i guess, that's exactly what he's hoping for).

Good imagination. Though i'm doubtful it will win masses, it certainly makes one hell of a good point.
 
Stigmata said:
I can understand this point of view completely, but in my eyes it's a double standard of sorts. It seems like most people don't really care whose names you're using to further whatever cause you might be furthering, but as soon as that person is dead, don't use their name, because they're dead!
Click to expand...

Well, I think that's due in part to having respect for the dead, especially soldiers ... but also that the dead can't speak for themselves. It's easy to use them to further an agenda. If I claim that a living person agrees with me and use his name and reputation to advance my own cause, he has the ability to speak out against me and make his own opinion heard. The dead don't have that luxury.

Like I said, I don't feel that strongly about it, and the case can be made that he was simply stating that they died and not suggesting their support for his cause. Which brings me to another point ... his whole protest is stupid. Assuming that he manages to do more than waste his own time and mildy annoy someone on the internet ... what is he actually saying? That soldiers died? That's a matter of public record ... I just don't see the point. If he wants to make a point, he needs to argue the merit of the war.

And Stern, you should actually play the game. The people on AA servers are generally much more mature and intelligent than your average online game. There are often non-flaming debates ... it isn't a breeding ground for neo-conservative wannabe soldiers. This is mainly due to the fact that the game requires a lot of patience and teamwork to play properly, and that playing it like CS or any other game will just get you killed. Then again I haven't played it in a very long time, so I can't confirm that it's still that way.
 
CptStern said:
lol I bet that throws a fly into the ointment of all those military wannabes (potential cannon fodder)

take that! Uncle sam :LOL:
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:rolleyes:

Gee. What about the ones that get forcibly drafted? And what have you got against the military anyway?
 
Tyguy said:
ugh, people need hobbies
Click to expand...

because basket weaving is more important than voicing your opinon about an injustice that you feel so morally obligated to speak out against because of your humanity and compassion for the other people on this planet, and their plight. :E
 
CptStern said:
there is no draft in the US
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I was talking 'bout your general tone.

because basket weaving is more important than voicing your opinon about an injustice that you feel so morally obligated to speak out against because of your humanity and compassion for the other people on this planet, and their plight. :E
Click to expand...

It is, actually. :E
 
15357 said:
I was talking 'bout your general tone.
Click to expand...

you asked what about those forced into the military ..well in the context of this thread I answered your question when I said there is no draft in the US

as to your question as to what I have against the military ..well there's a difference between individual soldiers and the military ..I dont like the military as an institution ..in many cases they're just government sanctioned murderers (if you strip it away of all propaganda and examine the issues behind what leads them to do what they do) ..in a best case scenario they're individuals with an undefined/specific moral centre that's at odds with what they're supposed to represent: ie, the hypocratic idea of peace through war ..usually justified by an agenda thinly disguised as a noble cause


btw Numbers ..who's getting rich off militarism of SK/NK?

read this (it's not just specific to the US)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-industrial_complex
 
CptStern said:
you asked what about those forced into the military ..well in the context of this thread I answered your question when I said there is no draft in the US

as to your question as to what I have against the military ..well there's a difference between individual soldiers and the military ..I dont like the military as an institution ..in many cases they're just government sanctioned murderers (if you strip it away of all propaganda and examine the issues behind what leads them to do what they do) ..in a best case scenario they're individuals with an undefined/specific moral centre that's at odds with what they're supposed to represent: ie, the hypocratic idea of peace through war ..usually justified by an agenda thinly disguised as a noble cause


btw Numbers ..who's getting rich off militarism of SK/NK?


read this (it's not just specific to the US)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-industrial_complex
Click to expand...

Oh, Ok. But thats your opinion, not the truth!


And to the btw: SK, I have no idea. NK, Kim jong il. The Military-industrial complex isn't really implemented in our country, most likely because the goverment is more powerful than a single corporation.
 
CptStern said:
you asked what about those forced into the military ..well in the context of this thread I answered your question when I said there is no draft in the US

as to your question as to what I have against the military ..well there's a difference between individual soldiers and the military ..I dont like the military as an institution ..in many cases they're just government sanctioned murderers (if you strip it away of all propaganda and examine the issues behind what leads them to do what they do) ..in a best case scenario they're individuals with an undefined/specific moral centre that's at odds with what they're supposed to represent: ie, the hypocratic idea of peace through war ..usually justified by an agenda thinly disguised as a noble cause


btw Numbers ..who's getting rich off militarism of SK/NK?

read this (it's not just specific to the US)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-industrial_complex
Click to expand...

I think that's a highly insulting and over generalising statement that thrusts into the limelight your sheer hatred of the military due to personal reasons rather than any sort of intelligent argument. You have insulted me and called me a baby killer and an evil child rapist in the past due to me being in the reserves and now you're saying that any person who has ever fought in the military is either evil or misguided...
 
Mr. Stern, I think that you are prejudiced by occupation than most super-capitalists that I know.
 
I love the idea ;)

And aren't all soldiers murderers??? If not than they are bad soldiers, 'cause they must be able to pull the trigger in a fraction of a second. In war it's kill or be killed...

And not all American soldiers are Bush-lovers...I'll bet a lot of them joined because they taught they could make a difference (for the good off course)
To bad they are being used in some political-power-game

Some ideas:

Why don't we fight al our wars virtually so nobody dies in real life?

Or the ones who start can fight it out against each other...I don't need to die for their differences...I don't have a problem with Islam or Muslims - as long as they don't tell me what to do, off course ;)-

I wouldn't need an army if you didn't have one...

I know...Naïve
 
Razor said:
I think that's a highly insulting and over generalising statement that thrusts into the limelight your sheer hatred of the military due to personal reasons rather than any sort of intelligent argument.
Click to expand...


personal reasons? I just gave you my impersonal reasons


Razor said:
You have insulted me and called me a baby killer and an evil child rapist in the past due to me being in the reserves
Click to expand...

you've completely lost your mind and are fabricating whole events now ..please point out where I ever called you a baby killer or evil child rapist

Razor said:
and now you're saying that any person who has ever fought in the military is either evil or misguided...
Click to expand...

you didnt understand a word of what I said. I specifically said the military as an institution
 
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