AntiGravity devices. Better than games?

[iamironsam]

clarky003, I'm not denying his device does what you say it can do, but the fact of the matter is electromagnetic/weak/strong force have absolutely no observerd interactions with gravitational force.

I believe his device may work very well imerssed in gasses like air. It may also work (though not very well) in a vacuum as it has been proven that quantuum fluctuations can be divided. This takes a very long time to divide up enough force to have enough to be measured. But, these forces are like magnets, they have equal parts positive and negative, so they can't be used to "create" net energy.

 

[clarky003]

believe what you will, . but it must work in a vacum? it creates one around it when it powers up. by repelling the air and material around it (also Ionising the air,)

so its not actually immersed in gases. as its sitting in its own self created vaccum.

 

[Brian Damage]

clarky003, I'm not denying his device does what you say it can do, but the fact of the matter is electromagnetic/weak/strong force have absolutely no observerd interactions with gravitational force.

I thought I heard that some lady somewhere had worked out that gravity and electrical forces could be realated? The theory of electrogravitics, or something. Google "Podkletnov", or whatever that dude's name is.

I believe his device may work very well imerssed in gasses like air. It may also work (though not very well) in a vacuum as it has been proven that quantuum fluctuations can be divided. This takes a very long time to divide up enough force to have enough to be measured. But, these forces are like magnets, they have equal parts positive and negative, so they can't be used to "create" net energy.

What if it turns out you could turn negative into positive?

Just theorisin' .

 

[iamironsam]

Yah, it's called ionic currents. It's the same concept used in the Sharper Image's Ionic Air air purifier. If he found a way to use this method efficiently than great. I'm just saying that it's not anti-gravity.

 

[Fender357]

If it was real the government would have been exploiting that big time.
Those sites really are crap. They're just trying to make money off people willing to belive that. All over the searleffect.com site they've got stuff saying they have tons of photos (that dont look photoshoped) but you have to become a member to see any of them. And what the hell is this ? http://www.searleffect.com/art/poleshift.jpg

 

[clarky003]

contreversial stuff. but maybe its not exactley antigravity, maybe its gravity displacement,, so i get your point

 

[iamironsam]

I thought I heard that some lady somewhere had worked out that gravity and electrical forces could be realated? The theory of electrogravitics, or something. Google "Podkletnov", or whatever that dude's name is.

Particle theory has no relation between gravity and the three other forces, that's one of the main problems with it.

String theory claims that gravity and the three other forces (and matter) are all made of one dimensional loops of energy floating in nine spatial dimensions (six of which are very small relative to the three we observe, and are curled back on themselves like a circle).

What if it turns out you could turn negative into positive?

Just theorisin' .

We can. Experimental physists are smashing known particles all the time to create anti particle equivalents. The only problem is it takes a whole lot more energy to create the anti particle than it actually provides us, and it almost instantaneously annihilates itself with a regular particle. The real question is what if it turns out we could efficiently turn negative to positive?

 

[clarky003]

you seem to be very intuitive, Id love to get a team of researchers and funding together to construct the Searl generator, the background knowledge is plentiful, and engineers would be needed, any of you guys want to put something together, loads of people are secretly setting up little work teams like this

 

[Brian Damage]

Particle theory has no relation between gravity and the three other forces, that's one of the main problems with it.

String theory claims that gravity and the three other forces (and matter) are all made of one dimensional loops of energy floating in nine spatial dimensions (six of which are very small relative to the three we observe, and are curled back on themselves like a circle).

One... dimensional... loop... it boggles the mind, don't it :E?

Well, I read in New Scientist that a possible link between gravitational and elecromagnetic forces had been discovered.

Gotta love theories, eh?

We can. Experimental physists are smashing known particles all the time to create anti particle equivalents. The only problem is it takes a whole lot more energy to create the anti particle than it actually provides us, and it almost instantaneously annihilates itself with a regular particle. The real question is what if it turns out we could efficiently turn negative to positive?

Yes, that last bit is more or less what I meant :thumbs:.

EDIT: Well, clarky, wanna front the dosh?

 

[clarky003]

we would all have to. or find someone who would be eager to put fundings into it, remember Id really like to think that people would work for the final result rather than getting payed to do so, as a collective intrest eager to see the work finished and working is just as rewarding, agreed?

 

[jabberwock95]

Wow, easily the most intellectual discussion in a while.

If I remember my brane and string theories correctly, gravity is a relatively weak force because it is made up of a closed string, which quickly escapes the brane our universe is on. With this in mind, it might be possible to create an antigravity device, but most of the explanation on the websites seems to me complete techno-babble. To quote almost all completely wrong people: 'I'll believe it when I see it.' and when it can be explained to a less-than-genius person. The main problem I have with the idea is that we can't even control the way gravity works, so how can we control anti-gravity? A true antigravity device would repel itself from anything with mass, so how would it be controllable? If anyone could explain this to me simply, I might be more convinced, but I can't help thinking that if it worked the scientist world would be raving about it, not hushing it up.

 

[Brian Damage]

clarky: For some, yes, but for others I'm afraid money is the great motivator....

Wow, easily the most intellectual discussion in a while.

If I remember my brane and string theories correctly, gravity is a relatively weak force because it is made up of a closed string, which quickly escapes the brane our universe is on. With this in mind, it might be possible to create an antigravity device, but most of the explanation on the websites seems to me complete techno-babble. To quote almost all completely wrong people: 'I'll believe it when I see it.' and when it can be explained to a less-than-genius person. The main problem I have with the idea is that we can't even control the way gravity works, so how can we control anti-gravity? A true antigravity device would repel itself from anything with mass, so how would it be controllable? If anyone could explain this to me simply, I might be more convinced, but I can't help thinking that if it worked the scientist world would be raving about it, not hushing it up.

Well, if an antigravitational force was created that was exactly the same in repulsive power as the pull of Earths gravity is in attractive power, then it'd just float there. To move, I imagine you'd simply tilt the device, and push at an angle.

That's the simple version, anyway.

 

[iamironsam]

One... dimensional... loop... it boggles the mind, don't it :E?

Well, I read in New Scientist that a possible link between gravitational and elecromagnetic forces had been discovered.

Gotta love theories, eh?

Well yah, big bang particle theory states that electromagnetic, weak, and strong force were all the same thing in extreme heat and pressure of the moments after the big bang. It's theorized, but not mathematically proven, that gravity might have been the same thing as well at an extremely miniscule instant after the big bang. But, the incompatibility between relativety and quantuum mechanics prohibits particle theorists from proclaiming this. It's like they know matter and all four forces are the same thing, but they can't prove it using their existing mathematical framework.

 

[jabberwock95]

we would all have to. or find someone who would be eager to put fundings into it, remember Id really like to think that people would work for the final result rather than getting payed to do so, as a collective intrest eager to see the work finished and working is just as rewarding, agreed?

But if there was proof this worked, surely there would be any number of applications, and any number of people willing to pour money into it. Science organisations, Governments, the military.... I mean the research has been around for quite a while, and no-one seems very excited about it.

 

[clarky003]

ooh man this world is so corrupt, I couldnt care about money at the moment I just wanna see one built to help everyone out there, afterall it would mean 3rd world countries would improve with this energy device, and the general feeling of piece over the world might be accomplished,

 

[Brian Damage]

And that's possibly why they'd hush it up.

<puts foil cap on>

I reckon that the fuel industry would crash, for one thing.

 

[clarky003]

the problem is the governments and military have got themselves in a noodle of a situation, if its true they have successfully covered this up for 50 years or more, with suppressing techiniques, fear , threats, etc. remember too, alot of government circles have alot of buisness down with big oil company's, and car company's. just think what this could do to there 'wonderful sallery's'. free energy, cars with no fuel, it would reck them,.. not to mention it would make all our world leaders and government circles look like liers! and they most certainly dont want that, there playing us for fools, Bush, the military, they have the power and they dont want the rest of the world to have any. and its all true!

 

[Brian Damage]

Uh oh, major name calling and flaming sighted on the horizon (though I personally agree with you clarky, to a certain degree).

 

[iamironsam]

Wow, easily the most intellectual discussion in a while.

If I remember my brane and string theories correctly, gravity is a relatively weak force because it is made up of a closed string, which quickly escapes the brane our universe is on. With this in mind, it might be possible to create an antigravity device, but most of the explanation on the websites seems to me complete techno-babble. To quote almost all completely wrong people: 'I'll believe it when I see it.' and when it can be explained to a less-than-genius person. The main problem I have with the idea is that we can't even control the way gravity works, so how can we control anti-gravity? A true antigravity device would repel itself from anything with mass, so how would it be controllable? If anyone could explain this to me simply, I might be more convinced, but I can't help thinking that if it worked the scientist world would be raving about it, not hushing it up.

You're totally right about gravity and anti-gravity. How can we manipulate anti-gravity if we can't even "see" regular gravity? By this I mean we can only observe it's effects, we can't actually figure out the smallest feasible quantity of it like we can photons and gluons. Once we figure out how to project large amounts of gravity out of comparably non-massive objects, then we have a chance at harnessing and using anti-gravity.

 

[Brian Damage]

Have they figured out if gravity comes in waves yet?

 

[Neutrino]

Please state why if you believe it to be so, Neutrino.

I'll admit that the guy in the first link doesn't seem to be very good at explaining it, but that's no reason to ballyhoo the entire idea.

First off, I just wrote about a page long response and then lost it all due to the page erroring. So here I go again:

Sorry for my incomplete statements last night. I was busy and didn't have time to write anything more about it.

Here's the quote again:

At this point, it levitates, completely enveloped in a perfect vacuum. Without control, it will accelerate up away from the Earth and disappear off into space, never to be seen again. To control it, a powerful radio frequency emitted nearby is required. If the same RF is transmitted as the AC frequency used to magnetise the rollers, they will completely stop. This acts as an ideal control gate, preventing the loss of costly generators.

Now to begin, just from what I know about physics makes that sound really stupid. Granted I'm no theoretical physicist, but I am a mechanical engineering student and have taken quite a few physics courses. Next, if someone is going to make fantastic claims such as these is is their responsibility to provide proof, not mine to blindly accept what they say on faith. If someone wants to claim they know something that seems to violate modern physics then they have to explain themselves. I could write something very similar to that whole webpage, but that wouldn't make me right. For an example of what I mean, if I claimed that the Earth is indeed flat it would be my job to provide proof of this statement. So I have no resonsibility to just accept a poorly described description on some backwater website. Such gullibility is what causes myths, pseudo-science, and other crackpot theories to be so rampant in our society.

Also, the whole bit about it being oppressed by the government is pretty silly. This has been done before. Anyone remember the carburetor that supposedly got 200 miles to the gallon but was being suppressed by the oil companies and the government? Such conspiracy theories are invented to give a crackpot idea or hoax a little more credibility in the eyes of the public. Real scientific ideas and inventions, on the other hand, do not need to resort to such nonsense.

Now, before you claim that I'm am just completely close minded, I'd just like to say that I am perfectly willing to accpet new ideas that are based on scientific fact. I'm not however willing to blindly believe every word I read on the internet. In the above quote it says the device creates a vacuum, which has something to do with levitation. Then it goes on about how an electromagnetic radio transmission tuned to the same frequency as the AC current somehow controls the device. It also mentions that one of the key's to the invention is the "special" element Neodymium. But how does it create a vacuum while in atmosphere? How does this have anything to do with levitation? How does a radio frequency affect the AC current? How does this control the device? And how does this element Neodymium work? Why is it special and why is it critical to the working of the device? Answer these questions scientifcially and I will be more than happy to listen.

Oh, and I think someone said something about how since it has pictures of the mechanism it must be real or something like that. Well who's to say what those pictures are of? I see nothing truly unique about them. They could be photographs of some completely different device.

I'm not completely denying the idea that perhaps this device exists in some form. But I think it far more likely that this was an interesting effect that someone decided to make a hoax out of rather than some sort of scientific break through that is somehow being oppressed and ignored by scientists everywhere but must be true since it exists on some backwater websites. It's just my opinion that people are way to willing to believe whatever they read and hear. Don't completley ignore every stupid theory and fantastic claim, but don't be so ready to believe it either. A little skepticism can server you well when browsing the internet or even in reading anything.

 

[jabberwock95]

Well, if an antigravitational force was created that was exactly the same in repulsive power as the pull of Earths gravity is in attractive power, then it'd just float there. To move, I imagine you'd simply tilt the device, and push at an angle.

That's the simple version, anyway.

Isn't that to do with momentum? Maybe i'm being dense, but if you could create an anti-grav force that completely nullified the gravity of the earth, I agree that it would just float. However, if that object was moved even a slight amount, it's antigrav force would be out of sync with the grav of the earth (which depends on your distance to the earths centre) and the object would either be pulled to the earth or off into space, which is not the same as being able to control it. Even if you could precisely change the antigrav force to sync with earths gravity, and you pushed it, the lack of gravity acting on it would not give it infinite momentum. Things slow down because of friction or air resistance, and even with no gravity they would still behave the same.

 

[clarky003]

understanding is the next step, as for now we already appear to know how to go about finding the essence of reality. But like a Bird perhaps, only knowing how to build nests and catch food for young. we simply arnt advanced enough to comprehend everything we appear to find, in limited perception.. but just contemplating that, I think makes us intelligent enough.

 

[Brian Damage]

Jabberwock: That seems to bring us back to the question of a definition of "Antigravity".

clarky: Now you're just gettin' freaky, dude .

Neutrino: Oh, believe me, I am sceptical. I just don't state that it's all bullshit without stating why. Oh well. Guess it's all up in the air.

 

[iamironsam]

Have they figured out if gravity comes in waves yet?

It's theorized that it does, just like everything else does. But it hasn't been proven because it's very hard to observe gravity on anything but gigantic scales.

 

[Neutrino]

Read this too. Sounds like a complete urban legend to me. I mean he invented it at the age of 14? Come on, this looks more and more like a lot of urban legends. Claim something fantastic, but of course it's mysterious and can only be made by some 14 year old. Modern science certainly can't explain the inventions of a 14 year old. That would just be completely silly.

I am writing in response to some of the e-mails being sent and forwarded to me.

It would be nice if the SEG was as easy to explain as the "lifter" unit, but it is not.

The question of putting out a "cheap and easy" proof of concept for the SEG is a valid question, but unfortunately it is not possible. The very nature of the SEG depends on exact weights, measurements, materials and a complex magnetic pattern that has not been duplicated since it was used to build the original unit.

Yes, it is true that John Searl built his first SEG in 1946 at the age of 14. He was working at a manufacturing plant that made large dynamos or generators. He had such conviction in his theory that he was able to convince the owners to help him. All he had to do is pay for the materials used in his experiment. He was given the use of the facility and the help of a number of magnetics engineers. He told them what he wanted and they made it happen. He was given all the data and methods for his records, which have subsequently been destroyed. So you see, he had a great deal of expertise at his disposal. This is the only way a 14 year old boy with a dream could have made it come true. In my mind, this was a kind of miracle, as he would have never been able to build it on his own.

We have duplicated the weights and measurements and the materials using "The Law of the Squares". We are working on the magnetic pattern. Once this is established, our work becomes easy and a proof of concept can be built. We have made a great deal of progress and have overcome the major problems of printing the magnetics. We are currently testing various materials to see which will give us the best results.

The building process is taking a long time because we lack the funding to work on it full time and for the cost of the materials. You might try pricing a magnetic ring about 7" in diameter and 3" high, made to specific dimensions with a tolerance of .001". You will find that the cost is considerable. This is what we are up against. Everyone wants to see the SEG and know how it works and how to build it, but we are still waiting for someone to come forward with the funding necessary to build it.

This technology is real. I have seen magnetics in motion (shown on our web site}. I have seen the magnetic pattern put onto a magnetic blank. I have studied the theory of operation and found it sound. I have been in contact with Prof. Searl for 11 years and believe his accounts of the past work. He truly does want to get his technology out to the world. He just wants to be the one to do it. Actually, he is the only one in the world who can do it the way it was done originally.

Sincerely,
John A.Thomas

Read this

 

[Brian Damage]

It's theorized that it does, just like everything else does. But it hasn't been proven because it's very hard to observe gravity on anything but gigantic scales.

Well, if it turns out to, could we produce a gravity wave that was shifted out-of-phase with the Earth's field?

 

[clarky003]

Even if you could precisely change the antigrav force to sync with earths gravity, and you pushed it, the lack of gravity acting on it would not give it infinite momentum. Things slow down because of friction or air resistance, and even with no gravity they would still behave the same.

Did you read the theory? it creates its own vaccum, around its body through particle Ionisation and repulsion. giving it a state of constantly being in a frictionless vaccum, even perhaps the displacement in a vaccum would repel the friction acting elements in the vaccum, and also its constantly drawing energy from the vaccum matrix , not knowing the full relation and interaction, its impossible to make a prediction on this

 

[Neutrino]

Neutrino: Oh, believe me, I am sceptical. I just don't state that it's all bullshit without stating why. Oh well. Guess it's all up in the air.

I respect your willingness to accept new things. And yeah I was probably in the wrong to just claim it was complete BS. But I think my post after that explains my views far better. It just upsets me how quickly some people just accept whatever they read as the truth.

 

[jabberwock95]

I'd just like to add there are a lot of references to the 'antigravity' force, but does anyone know EXACTLY what this force is/does? On the site, it says an uncontrolled antigravity device would just dissapear into space. Straight Upwards. Fine. If antigravity is simply the opposite of gravity, as I have said before, it would repel all things with mass. So, if it got out into open space, with nothing around, it would just stop. There would be nothing with mass for it to repel against. Also if this is the case, by varying the strength of the antigrav device, we could move it up and down (away from the earth, towards the earth). Big deal, what about sideways? Plus, wouldn't an antigrav force strong enough to push a largish object away from the earth have a large effect on it's surroundings? Like people standing next to it. If I have got the definition of 'antigravity' wrong, then my arguments don't mean squat, so feel free to correct me.

 

[clarky003]

Neutrino, you seem to be working hard to miss the point, he didnt invent it at 14, he started messing around with spinning metalic discs, with a high consentration of free electrons, this is how he started his experiments, he was simply intrested in theory at the time

 

[Brian Damage]

Read this too. Sounds like a complete urban legend to me. I mean he invented it at the age of 14? Come on, this looks more and more like a lot of urban legends. Claim something fantastic, but of course it's mysterious and can only be made by some 14 year old. Modern science certainly can't explain the inventions of a 14 year old. That would just be completely silly.



Read this

Well, I'm not saying I totally believe it, but I'm not ballyhooing it either.

clarky: Have you answered my question about pics or vids of that one you claim was made?

 

[Neutrino]

Even if you could precisely change the antigrav force to sync with earths gravity, and you pushed it, the lack of gravity acting on it would not give it infinite momentum. Things slow down because of friction or air resistance, and even with no gravity they would still behave the same.

Did you read the theory? it creates its own vaccum, around its body through particle Ionisation and repulsion. giving it a state of constantly being in a frictionless vaccum, even perhaps the displacement in a vaccum would repel the friction acting elements in the vaccum, and also its constantly drawing energy from the vaccum matrix , not knowing the full relation and interaction, its impossible to make a prediction on this

You cannont go through atmosphere without friction. And do you realize the amount of power it would take to maintain an un-enclosed vacuum around an object existing in the earth's atmosphere?

"vacuum matrix"

Now that is pretty funny. What is a vacuum matrix pray tell?

 

[iamironsam]

Hey Neutrino, just to answer your question about how it could create a vacuum around itself. It's real simple. With a high enough electric charge, let's say a positve charge, on the surface of the device, the particles from the air will devide into ions of positive and negative charge. The negative ions in the air will cling to the surface of the device while the postive ions will be repelled. This creates a gap between them, which is essentially, a vacuum.

 

[clarky003]

It just upsets me how quickly some people just accept whatever they read as the truth.

it upsets me to think people can be so narrow mind, (cautious maybe) but ive seen a smaller one working, I cant imagine what bigger versions are like.

 

[Brian Damage]

I'd just like to add there are a lot of references to the 'antigravity' force, but does anyone know EXACTLY what this force is/does? On the site, it says an uncontrolled antigravity device would just dissapear into space. Straight Upwards. Fine. If antigravity is simply the opposite of gravity, as I have said before, it would repel all things with mass. So, if it got out into open space, with nothing around, it would just stop. There would be nothing with mass for it to repel against. Also if this is the case, by varying the strength of the antigrav device, we could move it up and down (away from the earth, towards the earth). Big deal, what about sideways? Plus, wouldn't an antigrav force strong enough to push a largish object away from the earth have a large effect on it's surroundings? Like people standing next to it. If I have got the definition of 'antigravity' wrong, then my arguments don't mean squat, so feel free to correct me.

Well, I'm not sure about the bold bit. It'd probably continue along on it's own momentum until something stopped it, wouldn't it?

I've also wondered about antigravity fields squashing people. It's one of the reasons I think gravity nullification would be better...

 

[Neutrino]

It just upsets me how quickly some people just accept whatever they read as the truth.

it upsets me to think people can be son narrow mind, (cautious maybe) but ive seen a smaller one working, I cant imagine what bigger versions are like.

As I stated I'm not narrow minded. Give me some evidence and I'm more than willing to listen. Where exactly did you see one working? Can you make a video? \

Take this idea to a university physics professor and see what they have to say. I'd be a lot more willing to listen after you get their opinion.

 

[Brian Damage]

I respect your willingness to accept new things. And yeah I was probably in the wrong to just claim it was complete BS. But I think my post after that explains my views far better. It just upsets me how quickly some people just accept whatever they read as the truth.

Y'know, this forum really needs a shrug smiley, doesn't it?

 

[jabberwock95]

Did you read the theory? it creates its own vaccum, around its body through particle Ionisation and repulsion. giving it a state of constantly being in a frictionless vaccum, even perhaps the displacement in a vaccum would repel the friction acting elements in the vaccum, and also its constantly drawing energy from the vaccum matrix , not knowing the full relation and interaction, its impossible to make a prediction on this

Does anyone else feel their head is about to explode? A portable, moving vacuum?! In an atmosphere?! A moving vacuum would have to push air particles out of it's way, so does anyone know how this would affect it? Surely the amount of energy required to create a vacuum in an open space and keep it open (against atmospheric pressure) would be huge! Supposedly this device draws power from somewhere-or-other, but a discovery of how to do that would be huge in itself. I figure this thing is gonna need a hell of a lot of duracells if it's ever gonna get off the ground.

 

[Neutrino]

Does anyone else feel their head is about to explode? A portable, moving vacuum?! In an atmosphere?! A moving vacuum would have to push air particles out of it's way, so does anyone know how this would affect it? Surely the amount of energy required to create a vacuum in an open space and keep it open (against atmospheric pressure) would be huge! Supposedly this device draws power from somewhere-or-other, but a discovery of how to do that would be huge in itself. I figure this thing is gonna need a hell of a lot of duracells if it's ever gonna get off the ground.

Exactly my point.

Also, I'm still waiting on what a "vacuum matrix" is?